What Dating Issues are More Difficult Now Compared to 20 Years Ago?

63daddy · 2022-08-26T21:29:54+00:00

Working in education, a few differences I’ve seen:

Women often originally turn a guy down even if interested as a test to see which guys have the fortitude to keep pursuing. The problem today is many women still do this but the woke crowd calls it harassment. Guys are caught in a catch-22.

People are buried in their cell phone or other devices making it much harder to initiate conversations.

Online dating came about.

Society is hypergamous. To oversimplify, women overall want to marry a guy with a higher socioeconomic status but as education has focused more on females, this desire becomes more difficult to fulfill. Women complain they can’t find a good guy (good provider)

Young men overall date less and more consciously decide marriage isn’t in their best interest which exaggerated the last point.

mikesteane · 2022-08-27T01:12:32+00:00

Biggest problem is that people in general have become more self-centred and entitled, among other negative characteristics. Forming relationships is therefore more difficult. All other factors (the rise of the Net, changes in protocols) are more or less irrelevant and changes of venue e.g. from night "clubs" to online are pretty much insignificant.

So, what to do? Same old boring advice: 1. work on yourself and be the best you can be 2. learn to recognise red flags and act on them and 3. Learn game.

LocalhostGhost · 2022-08-26T22:20:27+00:00

Texting made dating hard. You used to make a date and not talk u ntil the date. A lot of time, women will text and wear out the conversation. Then they get bored before the date and associate that boredom with the guy being dull.

Sir_Nexus · 2022-08-27T05:00:36+00:00

Been struggling with this for years, so this is just my take on it. I truly mean no hate, this is just what I've observed and would be more than happy to hear people break these and tell me it's alright to approach women whenever or something. I have heard it a few times but I'm still paralysed from all the bad experiences I've had with it.

Not all women, but a lot have too high expectations. Like having some high status job, staying fit, being a social butterfly, have interesting hobbies, and still have hours to give them attention too. Almost all my age (I'm in my 20's) are looking for "the one". The perfect man, which is such a small percentage of men. The longer time goes go on, the more I truly believe "good men" are made from the love of women, which is why there is such a lack of them today. I feel more driven then ever when I have a girlfriend, I could succeed at anything, and when I don't my life just comes to a halt. Yes that's on me, it's just really hard with severe depression and anxiety. It's always so interesting how it disappears when you have someone that supports you and loves you.
A lot of them suck a communicating, texting, etc. I'm sure a lot of men do too though. So it's just a general society problem. I'm not great either since I have autism so apparently I sound smug when I talk, but feel I've come a long way. But I see a lot of people not even doing the basics like asking a simple question back or replying with any detail, so that just kills the conversation, and it happens incredibly often when talking to women. I've met very few who were good at conversations, but that may be anecdotal.
They are difficult to meet. Majority of them don't want to be approached in shops, the clubs, or anywhere they're doing something. Your only option is trough social gatherings really. Even then, the chances of someone there being your type, single, into you, etc, is low. For me personally I literally have no other way to meet women I find interesting than when I see them in public because they don't show up anywhere else. I've even asked them about how they meet people and they say they don't.
Lot of men are affected negatively by not having love, women teaching them about women, being around women so they get better at socialising with them, etc. Which leads to less driven men, so less higher education, confidence, cheerful men, etc. Also leads to men not understanding women as well as other women do, hence the "men are so stupid/dense/cold/hurtful" comments. Men just are not as socially switched on and need to be taught things.

I don't know, that's just what comes to mind top of my head. There truly are good men and women out there though, there's just a lot of garbage too which kinda makes the situation look like a mess.

blackdahlialady · 2022-08-27T05:33:37+00:00

Before I realized what sub I was in I was going to say finding somebody who actually wants something real. I'm 39 and it seems like dating is not like it was 20 years ago like I remember it. No one wants anything real with anyone anymore, it's bang and move on to the next person.

Edit: I've just pretty much given up on dating altogether. It's like, aren't there any men still left out there who are actually looking for a wife and not just a slam piece? It would be nice to have a good relationship but I've pretty much given up hope of that ever happening. As I said, nobody seems to want anything real anymore.

MarsRisen · 2022-08-27T03:08:42+00:00

Women just feign interest now and have no intention to date.

mistralol · 2022-08-26T20:05:09+00:00

There zero peer / reputational accountability like there was pre internet. eg people met others though friends. This meant people knew who was the player, who was the slut, who was a "heavy handed" etc.. etc.. this kept people in check by peer review bascially.

Now with modern dating there is zero reputation problems since you can date anyone outside your normal social groups / areas because of the complete removal of physical barriers. Which also means your behaviour has little or no accountability or consequances.

Henry_Blair · 2022-08-27T07:24:01+00:00

I'm 45 and I had the same experience you are describing. Online platforms for dating which were back then only websites like Okcupid, were more or less a taboo, both guys and girls regarded having a profile there similarly to how today "femcel" and "incel" are perceived, people who had a profile kept it a secret, and felt ashamed, and this goes for both sexes, as this was considered admitting you are not attractive enough to find love in the real world, as if you have some kind of disability.

Tinder was only just invented and it was not at all a dating app but something completely different - for thousands of years both sexes were seeing someone that they really want to have sex with and imagining "what if that someone has the very same thought!" but most people could never find out, and this was the underlying human drive tinder was created for - "we'll let two people in the same vicinity to tell each other that they both had that thought". The actual technology was never able to actually fulfill this promise - that a guy sees a girl, thinks this, she sees him, thinks the same, they both identify each other on the app, both just swipe, and understand they both had the same thought and hook up, but this was precisely the fantasy and drive tinder was offering, explicitly - this is not an interpretation, this was what tinder was all about (then in practice for a few years it became a a hookup app, then ten years ago for some reason, millions of women who never wanted a hookup started expecting a relationship there, at first it was bizarre, then they took over and tinder became "a dating app" which it was never meant to be and is awful at, the entire mechanism is not for getting to know but for quickies).

In the 1990s and the first decade of the 2000s, guys and girls flirted all the time, websites were not the primary venue but flirting. Then ten years ago feminism gradually started to ban the language humans have been using for hundreds of thousands of years to find love - first it was banned at work, then at college, then in pubs ("taking the night back"), finally in public places like a train ride or the street (I once came to a woman in the street and just told her "I think you are the most beautiful woman in town, sorry if it bothers you, just had to let you know", she just said thanks and went along, then from what I understand she started looking for me by walking that street over and over, until she ran into me again and invited me in, and we had a thing for a month or so - meaning flirting in public places was not forbidden, of course as long as it's not done in a rude way or to offend, but authentically in a nice way). And this feminist ban on direct flirting everywhere pushed an entire generation into apps, and this is what reversed the attitude - when I was 20-30, online was considered creepy and flirting was normal, now flirting became "creepy" and online is to be considered "normal", but, and this is to answer your question to the best of my understanding - none of the two sexes can actually replace direct communication with a screen. Men are very sensitive to looks, but women are different and mostly rely on "picking up a vibe" from a guy, but, and here lies the problem - vibes, don't transmit through pictures, and not even through text messages (unless you are a great poet), but in countless unnoticeable gestures that can only be seen in real life. This means that girls "can't make up their minds whether they like the guy's profile", which is actually not a difficulty in deciding, but of not being able to absorb the information women look for about men - the vibe - and guys feel muted, that they can't transmit who they are and what they are.

As a result, girls now treat dates completely differently than how it used to be for you and me, which hurts the guys: when you and I were dating, the fact that a girl wants to meet with us meant that she likes us - from her perspective, not only from ours, agreeing to go out on a date was a statement, it meant that she likes us, there was a reason for dating us. But now, since feminism pushed everything into apps and apps don't allow girls to sense the primary thing they feel in men (the vibe), they are treating the date, as swiping. They are meeting only to sense the vibe, because feminism and apps don't let them feel it. So now, them agreeing for a date doesn't mean anymore that they at all want to be on this date and that they like you. This is very dehumanizing for the guys - their actual existence is treated as if they are pictures. And guys, who are male and hence do rely on looks and extract a tremendous amount of information from pictures including about personality and are on the date not "to see if it's swipe left or right" but because they actually like the girl, are asking "why did you come if you didn't feel in advance that you like me - like I felt about you and made me want to date you?" And this really torments the guys, they feel that girls are having dates with them just for passing time. Girls on the other hand become angry that "guys feel that if they have a date the guy is entitled for some affection", and this hurts the guys more because they are not aware that girls can't sense a guy in apps and resorted to "date swiping" - they still think that if she is dating you it means she likes you like we used to date 20 years ago, so for them, it's not "expecting something in return" but "why did you even bring me here if you don't even like me?"

And because of the feminist oppression of the entire discussion nothing is ever talked about, no one becomes aware of any of the problems I listed, that all stem from banning flirting, which women depend on for sensing guys. Girls are not allowed to be advised that they sense vibes and not pics. And then another problem arises - because girls treat dating as date-swiping, the apps became for them a similar experience to online shopping. This is important to understand - the entire scene from a girl's perspective, became the same as when she buys shoes, the sensory and cognitive activity is the same, so when she swipes she feels more or less as if she is shopping for guys, and this led to more dehumanization (girls are not aware that they do that). So while guys only date girls that they want to date (for love or sex, doesn't matter), girls date mechanically, like trying on shoes without knowing if they even want them ("trying on" is a very common leisure activity of girls and women, which they transferred to dating from shopping, because of the cognitive similarity for them, and it's similar to girls because they need to sense a vibe to feel something toward men, vibes that don't transmit though pics, leaving it an emotionless shopping experience for them like with shoes). So girls treat human beings as a commodity without even guessing how inhumane this is, while guys need to deal with this treatment without any possibility to express it in a social discussion - feminism mutes them.

This shopping experience then resulted in girls also giving the guy a clear sense that it's not about emotion, attraction and love but about "a check mark on another one of my life goals - getting a man". Men want to feel it, girls want to "know it", which then creates another level of dehumanization, that guys are under - "be the list of properties that would make my girlfriends jealous of me for how I marked my check-mark on my technical filling out of the form of life" - they are not treated as humans, feelings and personal connection (whether as sex or love) are immaterial. "Who you are" is immaterial. This is the result of pushing everything into apps by feminism, by its banning of normal regular flirting everywhere.

RoubandoMerdina · 2022-08-26T19:50:49+00:00

Now the dating issues are simplified in two major points:

Are you attractive?
Are you not unattractive?

If you answered "yes" to both questions and your personal rating is agreed upon by women, you will get all of it. Otherwise you get none of it.

mechajutaro · 2022-08-27T00:10:56+00:00

Dating issues that didn't exist 20 years ago for men:

-While we've been beset by conflictual messages about masculinity throughout The 20th and 21st Century("Women want a sensitive guy, who listens" vs "Damnit, you're too nice and sensitive"), this has become more accentuated from the late-10s up until today. As has been well-documented, we've got Intersectionality escaping from our university campuses and infecting the popular discourse to blame for this

-Whatever good intentions may have been behind it originally, The Manosphere began emulating The Woke Left as early as '15, and that habit has just grown even more pervasive with each year that followed. Both have an insatiable hard-on for communicating exclusively in jargon(White CIS Hegemony in the case of The Woke, Gynocentric Social Order in the case of The Generically Red Pill)that no doubt makes those who use it FEEL like the smartest people in the room, despite the fact that they all look just as douchey and sound just as unintelligible as folks such as these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVp88d3BH0k&t=39s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8woa_wSrmA Aside from the fact that no one can understand what the fuck we're saying, when we lapse into Red Pill buzz speak, filling our minds with this sort of claptrap has undercut the capacity of many men to think lucidly

This wasn't the way things always worked. In the not too distant past, genuinely bright people were speaking and writing in on these things in plain language... Check out the dateline on this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d28usWdvmSg Doc Love's been writing and thinking about these subjects since the early 70s, and Neil F Scott coined the term "Nice Guy Syndrome" back in the 80s, which his protege Robert Glover expand upon in his seminal text on the subject, released in 2002. The barbarically under-remembered Asa Baber was doing likewise in the pages of Playboy during the 80s and 90s( https://reason.com/1994/07/01/man-troubles/ https://archive.org/details/Radioutlaw-PlayboyColumnistAsaBaberMantalkInterviewPart1706-2 ), and anyone who was reading Askmen* from the early 2000s-'16(when they got Woke on us), along with writers like David DeAngelo, Brett McKay, Bobby Rio, Scott McKay, Tripp Lanier, Marni Kinrys, Marie Forleo, and Kecia Noblewas were highly familiar with everything that today's Ayatollahs Of The Red Pill arrogantly believe themselves to have discovered. Men, more than anyone, could benefit from leaving all of this Red Pill crap back in the late 10s were it belongs, and returning to saying what we mean, and meaning what we say. In succinct, lucid sentences, written in Plain English

*https://www.askmen.com/dating/dating_advice_60/80_dating_tips.html https://www.askmen.com/top_10/dating/top-10-signs-shell-be-a-bad-mother_1.html https://www.askmen.com/top_10/dating/signs-she-s-crazy_5.html https://uk.askmen.com/top_10/dating/top-10-signs-youre-too-good-for-her.html https://www.askmen.com/top_10/dating/things-women-do-to-emasculate-men_3.html https://www.askmen.com/top_10/dating/top-10-cruel-things-women-do-to-men.html Note the dates on all of these articles. People were highly conscious of this stuff, looooong before anyone had heard of The Red Pill, Paul Elam, Karen Straughan, Alyson Tieman, Tom Golden, Brian Martinez, or any of these modern day sideshow attractions so many of us have mistaken for deep thinkers on serious topics

ABeeBox · 2022-08-26T23:38:58+00:00

Imma answer this anecdotally, so I don't have much from a woman's perspective on guys so mine is gonna be just from experience.

Im an attractive, young, early 20s male. I've been called that by my male peers and had a lot of attention from women.

Firstly, a lot of women are unhinged and are outright racist. I'm Eastern European living in Ireland and I've had Irish girls tell me after I tell them where I'm from that: "Yeah, I don't like Irish guys, I always preferred Eastern Europeans" which is just a huge ick. They apply stereotypes and use us more like a status than anything, this shit happens to my Nationals, and Russian guys, Black guys, Spanish guys etc.

Nobody gives af about boundaries. I've had girls start things with me right in front of my girlfriend, they'd know I'm with her but there's just no boundaries or respect, future homewreckers in the making.

Hookup culture is just everywhere, but I never participated and I don't really know much about it other than "hot girl summer" is praised a lot as a good thing, an emblem of strength and independence, but to me it just seems slightly irresponsible but I can't say much on the subject.

The second girl I dated had never been in a relationship before, never had sex before, but had been suggesting a polyamorous relationship with me. We broke up, and apparently she ended up cheating on the next guy she dated, and it was oddly celebrated. Very confusing, but I was just grateful I dodged a bullet.

A lot of people cheat, I've heard so many stories and it's wild to me at this age. Everyone is bragging about it, it's nuts! I also feel like it's girls cheating on guys a lot more at my age. Any time there's drama or gossip, it's always because some dude got cheated on, although Guys cheat a lot too, but I don't hear of it as much.

I'm not gonna make an overall conclusion, but these are the things I've experienced.

Deep_Mention_4423 · 2022-08-27T06:50:01+00:00

I'm around your age. Ive been with as many women as I am old. Nearly got engaged twice. I've witnessed the change in technology. People have become selfish and can easily change relationships like changing brands of toothpaste or swiping a screen. Used to be the case you had to actually risk something by approaching someone or entering a relationship. And used to be the case that options were limited and you took what you could get and then had to work at it. Now it's as if everyone has become nihilistic narcissists where nothing has any consequence anymore. And if something isn't perfect or convenient, they're too lazy to work at it and expect they'll find perfection with the next swipe. Eventually they'll run the clock out and find out that perfection doesn't exist.

Illadrex2 · 2022-08-27T05:37:51+00:00

The biggest detriment to dating is social media. I went from reliably being able to go to a bar and get 2 or three numbers and having at least one hit back, to getting one number and having no response.

Part of that was I wasn't on apps prior to the Pandy, now I find I almost exclusively meet women on apps, to the point I go out and have been satiated, don't even care to meet IRL....but when that online shit dries up I don't have nearly as much confidence in my in person game anymore. ..which is wild, because all the apps do is introduce us...when I get them on a date I'm usually able to convert....but upon first sight I have started getting the yips of sorts, which is fucked.

makosh22 · 2022-08-27T07:28:15+00:00

First question: Horseback riding clubs. Tons of girls.

But actually i would try to find a partner next to MY interests.

AlienAmerican1 · 2022-08-26T20:25:37+00:00

Fucking all of them.

Beautiful-Daikon4239 · 2022-08-27T04:03:45+00:00

Just turned 20 was in a 4yr relationship Till she left I can’t even imagine dating I’m my 20s fml

ConestogaCreek · 2022-08-27T14:42:01+00:00

In my opinion enforcing monogamy is the downfall of society. People should be free to form whatever unit they want whether it be one male and four females or one female and four males. That would be much more in line with our nature and therefore more sustainable.

Title	What Dating Issues are More Difficult Now Compared to 20 Years Ago?
Author	PooPooGreen
Upvotes	87
Comments	183
Date	August 26, 2022 7:45 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/wyid75/what_dating_issues_are_more_difficult_now/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/what-dating-issues-are-more-difficult-now-compared.1208946 https://theredarchive.com/post/1208946

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