If nice guys are beta, why do women always say they want a nice guy and then wind up sleeping with alpha douche bags?

thetompkins · 2011-03-15T20:17:59+00:00

They want a nice guy with the confidence of an alpha d-bag. They don't want someone who is always trying to impress them; it's basic seduction, when you think about it. They don't want a "nice" guy who thinks they need to spend the rest of their lives trying to impress her or borderline worshiping her, they want a guy who puts them as equals- if not putting himself a little ahead of her. They complain because many of the guys that naturally attract them turn out to be asshats, and the guys who would treat them well and never do anything to hurt them are usually too beta to just tell her.

Hell, even if they do tell her how they feel, it usually comes out way early, super-gushy, and kinda pathetic. I know, because that's how I bollocksed things with my "one".

frogma · 2011-03-15T21:27:41+00:00

Assertiveness is often misinterpreted as douchebag behavior by guys who don't know how to be assertive (real douchebags take assertiveness too far because they're seeking attention- but they're still assertive/dominant/alpha). Girls are still attracted to "nicer" guys, but nobody in the whole fuckin world is attracted to the stereotypical "nice guy." NOBODY- except maybe that guy's boss.

The other problem is, girls who say "I'm tired of being with douchebags" and then continue to date "douchebags" don't develop that opinion of the guy until they're in the relationship. Every relationship has conflicts and shit like that which makes any girl who's with any guy consider him a douchebag at some point- especially after the fact. Just because a girl says something like that doesn't mean she'll ever be attracted to the little beta bitch- and that doesn't make her a bad person.

For every "douchebag" you see having success with women, I guarantee you'll find some other guy who nobody would consider a douchebag, also having success with women. It seems to me like nobody takes the time to think about the guys they know who are good with women. I can think of a bunch of douchebags who are, and I can think of a bunch of guys who aren't douchebags too. It's confirmation bias- seek and ye shall find.

mikedamike · 2011-03-15T21:32:37+00:00

It's pretty simple: alpha douche bags make the move, beta nice guys wait (forever) for the girl to make the move.

2011-03-15T21:00:52+00:00

Because confidence and passion are sexy, however, the women who go after the d-bags are settling. Very few masochist girls are actually looking for a guy who will treat them wrong, it's just what's available that actually turns them on. Just like the girls who go after the 'nice guys' are settling. D-bags put themselves out there more often, sure they get shot down more often too, but eventually people say yes. Sometimes girls are just looking for sex too, girls have coyote ugly stories just as often as guys.

Women want someone with the self-confidence, passion, and drive, who is also moral, respectful, and polite. Part of them is still wired to look for and be attracted to potential providers, fathers, and friends, just as much as it is wired to look for strong men.

If you read this subreddit more often, you'll find few successful hookups or relationships that start out with something like, "I slapped up the boy she was with, grabbed her in one arm and drove off on my motorcycle to have my way with her."

The whole, "Girls are only attracted to d-bags" is a negative, inaccurate and counterproductive way of thinking. Even more, it sounds petty and jealous, and it frames the people who you might be attracted to in a negative light.

VampireSlayer · 2011-03-15T23:01:28+00:00

You need to change your definition of nice guy, the douchebags you speak of don't supplicate. The nice guy people on here are talking about supplicate and make the woman their only reason for living, which does not attract women.

There is a difference between doing nice things occasionally for your long time girlfriend and kissing some girl you hardly know's ass.

While most advice from females is wrong, this explains it in more detail: http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.shtml

doomgoblin · 2011-03-15T20:21:48+00:00

Because women don't know what they want. Say one thing, do another. Gender trolling.

/troll face

ratpriest · 2011-03-16T00:25:23+00:00

Women never say what they mean.

Wumb0l0gy · 2011-03-15T23:01:21+00:00

One of the principles of seduction is that any advice you get from women is useless (regular women, not women who are actually affiliated with PUAs). There's a reason for that. Women aren't honest with you because they aren't honest with themselves. They tell you what they want to want.

If we won the lottery, we'd tell people that we'd like to donate some to charity. In secret we probably intend to spend it all on a private island. Women tell you what they think they should want (nice guy betas), instead of what they actually want (douche bag alphas).

alexryane · 2011-03-16T00:42:49+00:00

If you're are good looking, confident and interesting you will get with girls. When this happens and you realise how many girls you can get with your confidence starts to run into arrogance. Power corrupts, attraction is power.

So guys who get girls can get away with acting in certain 'bad' ways and they do, because it's easy and fun. Of course this affects certain types of guy differently and there are believe it or not decent guys out there. But allot just do what they can get away with.

Don't assume that women really like nice guys any more than we like nice girls. I will sleep with a beautiful bitch who treats me like shit over the nicest ugly girl any day. I'll complain about it sure but I will still do it.

Saying girls only go for douchbags is ridiculous.

Lightfiend · 2011-03-16T00:47:41+00:00

Rule #1 of Pick-up: People don't usually know what they want. You have to show them.

_Uatu_ · 2011-03-15T20:40:03+00:00

Because when someone is going to see me, I want to be in a badass sports car. But when I'm at the gas station filling up, I wish I had a subcompact. Nice guys make good fathers. D-bags make babies.

DamonBlack · 2011-03-16T00:06:20+00:00

Don't forget that when a woman says she wants a "nice guy" she is also talking about the ideal guy of her dreams. She's not counting the hundreds of nice guys she plans to pass up because they come off as desperate or unappealing. Likewise you could list qualities about women that you are conscious about... but ultimately the subconscious elements of attraction win out in the long term.

texmo · 2011-03-16T01:19:34+00:00

I was just chatting to a girl last night about this. I am a nice guy. I wouldn't consider myself an alpha. I asked her what made me attracted to me, she said she was initillay attracted to me how ever simply asking her "Can I have your phone number so I can take you out to lunch" really impressed her and she found my "no bullshit approach a real turn on"

TreesOfGreen · 2011-03-16T12:40:27+00:00

While I don't like the terms alpha and beta that much, I'll use them here for clarity.

Women want a guy who respects the people around him, but respects himself enough to not put up with being shit upon. This is a true alpha, and of these guys, the ones who are attractive and have a good personality will be able to pick and choose. Notice that these guys are nice, but they are not d-bags.

Guys who are nice but don't actually respect themselves enough to ever demand respect from others are true betas. This is the "nice guy" (TM) that nobody wants to be. They think that always being nice to a person and always supplicating is the same as respecting them, when the truth is that being a doormat is disrespectful to both people in the relationship.

There are, of course, many shades of gray in between.

Douchebags resemble alphas in their not-putting-up-with-any-shit characteristic, but they don't respect other people, so they are not alpha. Some women are drawn to them because if the woman can "change" him so that he respects her, she has landed an alpha. The idea of this represents a possible major ego boost to the woman.

philosarapter · 2011-03-16T13:43:22+00:00

Our society has strong puritanical roots who have, for the past 300 years [possibly even longer], taught women that they are chaste, pure damsels in distress. This is reinforced by romantic comedies, disney movies and childhood fantasies of being adored by everyone.

However this philosophy is completely ignorant of the fact that we are sexual animals who lust and fuck. Thus there exists a great divide in what a woman's body craves and what she says she wants.

Women do want a nice guy, in the end.. the guy they settle down and marry and raise a family with. But in order to get to that stage, he needs to satisfy her more primal instincts. He needs to exhibit dominant alpha male qualities: strength, confidence, passion, leadership, etc.

"Douchebags" as you like to call them exhibit the physical strength and confidence, and all the physical signs of sexual dominance. So they turn a woman on. Some women become sexually hooked to this man and hope the 'niceness' will just develop later, when they need it. Unfortunately most men do not change unless they are required to, so they remain an asshole and women come out and say they want a nice guy.

I hope that sums it up.

Its the same way with men. You want an intelligent girl... but first she's gotta have a feminine body. Sometimes the girl doesn't have the intellect but she has the body, so you'll fuck her anyway and even get attached, and then go on to complain about how all girls are 'crazy' or 'dumb'. But you never stop fucking that hottie, because she's hot. Meanwhile all the slightly-less-attractive intelligent girls are all complaining that guys are always dating bimbos.

ThrowawayPUA · 2011-03-15T20:48:23+00:00

Because there is a difference between what women say they want, and what they are actually attracted to. It is a matter of debate why, it could be that women are unable to communicate their desires to men in a way we understand them; or it could be that women are unable to completely understand their own desires.

So we mostly rely on tested methods that are known to work in the field. A lot of work went into discovering what actually succeeds with women.

yokhai · 2011-03-15T21:19:36+00:00

Also they don't like the answer / want to be honest with themselves.

redd0nkulous · 2011-03-15T23:05:43+00:00

because daddy was an asshole.

throwaway-o · 2011-03-16T04:32:20+00:00

Because the center of their brain that generates the wish for a nice guy is not the center of the brain that generates sexual attraction.

http://socialpathology.blogspot.com/2010/05/alpha-receptor.html

This is required study matter.

advicemcadvice · 2011-03-15T22:29:23+00:00

There is a difference between the men want to sleep with and the women they want to date. They want to sleep with alphas and date betas.

ymrhawk · 2011-03-16T00:43:48+00:00

Women (and men to certain extent) are not aware of what they want consciously.

2StandardDeviations · 2011-03-16T01:06:26+00:00

However, a lot of the women I talk to always complain that there are no nice guys out there. What is their mentality out of this?

It means that they don't appreciate nice guys (to the degree that they are damn near invisible), and always go after assholes that treat them like shit. In their world, there really aren't any nice guys.

cxxguy · 2011-03-16T01:56:37+00:00

They think that manhood is being an asshole, so they don't recognize anything which ain't an asshole as male.

seanm27 · 2011-03-16T02:01:02+00:00

Nice to them, asshole to everyone else. She finally realizes he is an asshole when he porks her sister/best friend/whatever. Says "[Asshole] is such an asshole! Why can't I ever find a NICE guy?!" Cycle repeats.

2011-03-16T02:15:40+00:00

women want a nice guy who is also in charge and respected. But most guys are not both. douche bags are in charge, and most nice guys are pussies. women want to have their cake and eat it.

SubGothius · 2011-03-16T02:24:37+00:00

In addition to the other comments here, I suspect many women may not realize there's a difference between affective empathy and cognitive empathy, and that it's possible (perhaps even probable) for guys to have one in spades without the other.

That is, if she encounters a guy who seems in sync with what she's thinking and feeling, what her attitude towards him is, and he responds appropriately to her expectations, then she may interpret that as the guy being interested in her and caring about her personally, or she presumes that if a guy really cares about her and is interested in her personally, he should be able to tell what her attitude is and respond to her subtle signals as she expects him to. Conversely, she may presume a guy who can't seem to tell what her attitude is, such as whether she's attracted to him or not, or even wants to be picked up that night or not, or who doesn't respond as expected to her signals hinting how she wants to be treated, that must mean he does not care about her personally. In brief, if he cared about her, he'd know how she feels, and if he seems to know how she feels, he must care about her.

It may not dawn on them that sociopathic sorts are typically quite savvy at reading and manipulating others and accommodating their social expectations, while not caring for others as people one single bit, only bending that awareness and those expectations to meet the sociopath's own needs. Meanwhile, other guys may have deep care and concern for these women as fellow human beings, with hearts and minds and feelings of their own, but be completely tone-deaf at intuiting just what those are without being told.

That may explain how these gals wind up hooking up with selfish, manipulative guys who seem to care about them but really don't and wind up using them, and ignoring guys who really do care about them as people but act oblivious or out of sync with the subtle signs they think are blatantly revealing their inner states to all who'd care to look and notice them.

MonkeySteriods · 2011-03-16T13:47:42+00:00

[permanently deleted]

2011-03-16T16:46:12+00:00

[permanently deleted]

blackdevildisco · 2011-03-15T21:53:05+00:00

This belongs in AskSeddit. I don't think it belongs here.

Title	If nice guys are beta, why do women always say they want a nice guy and then wind up sleeping with alpha douche bags?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	30
Comments	56
Date	March 15, 2011 8:00 PM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/g4mld/if_nice_guys_are_beta_why_do_women_always_say/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/if-nice-guys-are-beta-why-do-women-always-say-they.1300998 https://theredarchive.com/post/1300998

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