Can we talk about accepting failure, embarrassment and dealing with shame?

SatanicBoner · 2013-03-18T14:25:23+00:00

When I used to approach girls (I'm married now), it boiled down to two things

1) I will never see these girls again.

2) If they aren't interested, how does that change anything about me?

e: Just read your replies below. These two principles can be applied to any "sticking points" you might have.

For point one, I live in a city of around 1 million people. It's not a small town, but it's not huge by any stretch of the imagination. If I go out to the same exact bar every weekend, I'm probably never going to run into the same group of girls. Even if I did, why do I give a fuck? It's their fault they aren't willing to open themselves up to meeting someone new. I'm fun to be around, I know how to have a good time, and there are plenty of people who are looking for someone exactly like me. If they can't see that right in front of their faces, do I really give a shit what they think?

I can almost promise you the girls who automatically reject good, interesting guys without even giving them five minutes go home and complain to their friends about how there aren't any good, interesting guys out there.

The second point is more about my identity and how I'm living my life. If some girl I hadn't known five minutes before I said "Hi" to her tells me to "go away" why do I care? I'm still fun, I'm still interesting, I still want to connect with people, and I'm still looking for the right girl. After I've approached them, I'm still exactly the same as I was before I spoke to them.

Sure, maybe there'll be some chump across the room, hiding in his beer who has a chuckle at my expense. Whatever. In a week, that guy'll still be wishing he had the balls to go talk to as many girls as I do. He'll be envious of the fact that he's too scared to even attempt getting as many phone numbers as I have. In short, he see me doing all the things he wants to do, and he's mad at himself for not doing it.

eablokker · 2013-03-18T15:38:26+00:00

Let me tell you how fear works and maybe this will help you. The amygdala is a structure in your brain that controls your fight or flight response, your fear response. Information comes in from your five senses and your amygdala scans all of it looking for threats. If it detects a threat it fires off a fear response. Your amygdala is very dumb, partly because it's designed to respond in milliseconds, so it doesn't have time to think things through. That means it makes mistakes, it can make you feel afraid of things that aren't dangerous at all - because it's very dumb. Your amygdala knows that your conscious, rational mind is much smarter than it, because your conscious mind can take time to think things through. So after your amygdala fires off a fear response, it immediately looks to your conscious mind for confirmation that it initiated the right response. If it receives confirmation, then the amygdala learns to make you afraid of that situation again. If however your conscious mind does not give confirmation, or gives a contradictory confirmation, then your amygdala learns woops, I did the wrong thing and I won't do that next time.

To put it simply, you have feelings of anxiety around this situation of physical contact with women. In addition to that you have habitual negative thoughts that reinforce that feeling of anxiety. Each time you feel fear, and in your mind you have a thought like "I'll never be able to do this" then your amygdala learns yes, this fear is the correct response, because the negative thought confirms that this really is a dangerous situation. Does that make sense? Over time, these negative thoughts can become uncontrollable and repeat over and over again, causing more fear, which then causes more negative thoughts, and on and on. So one way people use to get over this is the 3 second rule, you act while feeling the fear but before your conscious mind can kick in with the negative thoughts. That way your amygdala is distracted by what you are doing and slowly learns that the fear response is not the correct response, because you are smiling and talking to someone, your conscious mind is sending a positive message back to the amygdala. So every time you want to touch a woman, but don't, your amygdala is being reinforced with the message that this situation is dangerous, don't do it!, and it gets harder and harder every time.

There are also various psychological techniques you can use to stop all these negative thoughts and retrain your thought patterns. I won't go into it here, but it's important to learn how to stop your negative thoughts and change your underlying beliefs that you're not good enough, that you have to be perfect or whatever. Just realize that each time you think a negative thought about your interaction with women, or a negative thought about yourself, you're teaching your amygdala to keep feeling fear, and you're just digging yourself a deeper hole each time.

SatanicBoner · 2013-03-18T12:45:09+00:00

In my case, you just do it. I didn't really "get over it". I just got enough courage so that I could momentarily (for like 3 seconds) ignore my fear.

Then, mid-sentence into my approach, I got my fear back and it terrified me.

The next time I approached, my fear came back in 10 seconds.

It gradually lowers and lowers, but it's still there. It's part of being human.

Just get over it. You either do it, or you don't. And if you don't do it, it was a choice that you consciously made. You can only realize it wasn't a big deal after you do it. "Realizing it wasn't a big deal" isn't an act of logically acquiring more knowledge. It's an act of experiencing an emotional event that allows you to internalize other emotions and beliefs.

It isn't a big deal, but you won't truly internalize that statement until you personally experience an event that tells you "oh wow it really wasn't a big deal".

It's not for nothing that studies have found people rank their fear of "public speaking" higher than a fear of death.

Which is more of a reflection of someone's personal insecurities, not that people enjoy shaming other people or whatever (and anyone who makes fun of someone for trying is insecure themselves).

Again, you just fucking do it. For most people, you don't "get over it" and then start approaching. You start approaching terrified, and eventually, you get over it. So just fucking do it. No excuses. If you have an excuse, then enjoy finding more and more reasons to not do it. Enjoy living a life of stagnation. I was there, and it fucking sucks.

UnapologeticalyAlive · 2013-03-18T14:03:41+00:00

Have you actually experienced rejection, or are you just terrified by the idea of it?

Go out with the intention of getting rejected by 30 girls in one day. If you do 30 approaches, the worst that can happen is that you succeed. Then you'll get over your fear of rejection because you will have actually experience it.

RandianHero · 2013-03-18T18:48:41+00:00

I find that the only real remedy for fearing social ostracizing is to be completely self-confident. Draw every bit of your self-esteem from within, and know internally that you're awesome and capable of surviving without the approval of others. You were a soldier, man. That's some tough shit (or at least it is in my country -- I can only assume it's just as rough in yours). You're clearly smart and capable of sacking up and powering through tough situations, so use that.

I got news for you: there will always be some shitty person who makes fun of you for something. No one is immune to criticism. But it's how you deal with that criticism that counts. At the end of the day, does it truly diminish your accomplishments or personal quality if some idiot says you're a loser, or some uptight broad rejects you? No. You're still you, and nothing anyone says can ever erase what you've done.

I'll tell you something my father told me when I was a boy: you remember how you felt the first time you rode your bike? How scared you were of falling or looking like a fool for not getting it right? Remember how after you did it, it wasn't so bad? Everything in life is like that. Go out there and force yourself to get some action. I promise that once you do, you'll feel silly for ever having thought it was scary.

brizzlebrazzle2287 · 2013-03-18T15:52:00+00:00

I was watching an Inside the Actor's Studio with Dave Chappelle, and he said a worthwhile line: "I failed beyond my wildest expectations. And it was the best thing that ever happened to me." Essentially, what he's talking about is how we all need to experience failure, so then we learn how to deal with it. Failure is a natural, normal and essential part of seduction. I myself (since I started reading Seddit) am 6/6 on # - closes, so I still need to experience this myself.

MistaFANG · 2013-03-18T16:48:51+00:00

Do you remember the last time you were physically embarrassed to the point that you couldn't talk? To the point where it made a difference to who you were? Proooooooooobably not.

Remember the time before that? Nope.

Remember that time when you peed your pants at that birthday party? Yeah, you remember it after it's brought up, but that's it. You're not in constant fear of it. It's funny, laugh at yourself. Not taking yourself too seriously is an attractive quality. It subconsciously tells people you've been through enough life experiences to know that you are comfortable with making mistakes because you already know in the moment that you're learning something from it.

It's called agree and amplify. A fun, playful way of self-deprecating humor. It's putting your ego on the line in a joking way. Everyone knows you're joking, trust me.

Just do it. Get out of your head and into the moment.

MoJoNoNo · 2013-03-18T12:27:02+00:00

A lot of these made me take a deeper look into myself earlier. The one that particularly Stood out was "Not trying is still a no." What helped me a lot was simply repetition.

Indigo_Sunset · 2013-03-18T12:39:28+00:00

using your own example of military service, what was the difference between day 1 and day 100? the difference between picking up a rifle for the first time and that last time? the difference between tactical motions at day 1 compared to day 200? the difference between what you could do then and what you can do now?

the difference is practice and understanding through learning by examples and owning your mistakes. there is no way you can get worse by trying and failing. it's only worse by not showing up at all.

urmyheartBeatStopR · 2013-03-18T15:15:31+00:00

Take a buddy to go out with you.

I started out alone and was ok. Found a buddy that was into it and he really push me in uncomfortable situations.

We both cheer each other and pump each other up.

psyyduck · 2013-03-18T17:06:28+00:00

Two things:

Regular compassion meditation to learn a deep friendship towards yourself and others. So you're not so hard on yourself and it's ok to fail or be sad once in a while. It's ok to do the best you can and work to improve. It's ok for someone to like you.

Learn to see that rejection, shame and embarrassment are illusions. They are not as vast or umanageable as you think.

PerthroXIII · 2013-03-18T17:08:27+00:00

Develop an obsession with going out and reach the point where you are going out 4-5 times a week, no excuses!
Make a social circle with like minded-guys and girls (especially hot girls as they will DHV you and get you closer to closing).
Don't worry about outcomes and embarrassment become ICE!
If you don't know where to pick up the thread and begin, just go out on your own, looking fine and exploding with energy and everyone will love you for your vibe!

If you don't have a positive and insanely attractive vibe about you, take cocaine and afterwards imitate that feeling from within (this is of course subjective, I am not encouraging that anyone should use substances, it is down to the individual to make that decision)

dgafatall · 2013-03-18T17:24:12+00:00

I think the key is to do it AND embrace the fear. I'm reading a book called Hope and Help for Your Nerves, written by a doctor, and in it she suggests accepting the panic symptoms. So she is actually suggesting not to fear or even dread the sweaty palms, beating heart, wrenching stomach, etc., because THAT triggers the adrenaline centers of the brain and actually makes it worse. By embracing (not just "doing anyway"), it lessens over time. She is suggesting that it is just a feeling with NO MEDICAL SIGNIFICANCE. Just go about your day with these feelings, and don't even try to make them not happen, and they will lessen and possibly go away. I feel like this is relevant to approach anxiety.

2013-03-18T18:41:47+00:00

I think your comparison isn't exactly a good one. The guys going through basic training with you aren't just going to disappear. They're going to be living and training with you for a while. They might be depending on you in the future to save their life.

Compare this to approaching a girl. A girl who probably gets approached at least a few times a day, probably much more if she's at all attractive. If you get rejected, who's really going to ever remember that, besides you? No one is going to care. Even if other people notice, they probably subtly admire your stones for approaching, because so many guys talk themselves out of it before ever approaching.

shitsfuckedupalot · 2013-03-18T19:05:16+00:00

I know its hard but I tend to just blow it off. If you decide a girl is worth your pain for not wanting you, then you decide she's worth more than you. It's nothing personal, and it has nothing to do with how great of a person you are. Only you can see that. At one point you ask about being scared, well I would say that fear comes from a lack of understanding. Once you understand why a girl would reject you, then there's nothing to fear, only what you can improve about yourself. There was a point in middle school where I got so broken up about a beautiful girl rejecting me that I didn't sleep for a whole night and didn't go to school the next day. After that, I decided that it was never worth it, and the stuff I have going on the next day is wildly more important than the fickle interests of a young girl. Therefore, I am never embarassed, I know no shame, and I only experience mild disappointment when a girl decides she doesn't want to get to know me. Because I find myself interesting, I decide this is the end game, not having sex with her. So maybe you should reevaluate your intentions. But you're taking a step in the right direction by browsing this subreddit, its all about valuing yourself, not someone elses opinion of you.

bentleymazerati · 2013-03-18T19:06:26+00:00

Edit: Sticking point for me lately has been... Everytime you get the anxious feeling during an interaction, don't second guess your actions. Push through. Notice the feeling, ask yourself why you feel that way, then push through and do whatever it is that is making you feel that way.

Man just go hit the bar with some friends, drink a little bit, talk to some girls.

Strong, comfortable eye contact
Kino (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Edh2GQHZmtI&list=PLJj4SNbAduPh1rR_yzliSFig2ojH0QDcU)

Confidence Confidence Confidence

You want pussy, but usually pussy doesn't fall out of the sky. So go get it.

RedErin · 2013-03-18T19:20:32+00:00

If you read a lot of success stories, then you realize that social anxiety can be overcome. Search for "thank" here and you'll find a lot of them.

kazagistar · 2013-03-18T19:37:01+00:00

If you watch someone to anything new for the first few times, they are usually pretty careful. Then after doing it many many times, they are confident. The process is simple, do it then rinse and repeat.

Maphistow · 2013-03-18T21:23:18+00:00

Not going to bother with reading all the comments; I just want to share my own experience. I was a kissless virgin until 20, I've missed out on a lot of girls either because I didn't know how to flirt and act or because I was terrified of actually going sexual: what if she thinks I'm a bad kisser, will she laugh because I'm a virigin at 17/19/20, will I fuck up in bed. I was terrified to talk to anyone about it including my best friends, who have witnessed way more embarrassing shit from then I care to relay.

My first kiss and sex experience happened while I was drunk, I didn't really take the initiative with the kissing and I had no clue what I was doing in bed. Losing my virginity didn't change me that much, sure it was a chip of my shoulder but inside I was still the same person. In the end it made me realize that all that bullshit, how will I kiss, how will I fuck, how will I smell; is just that: bullshit. You have nothing to fear but fear itself, how you conquer your fears is a whole other subject but I'm sure there are some great teachers around here.

I just wanted to share this experience to let you know that there are people who have been in the same boat as you and have come out on top. Just don't let your fears paralyze you, I suggest you start by taking small steps; letting your friends, or just 1 of your best friends, know how you feel would actually be a good first step. If you can't tell your friends how you feel how are you ever going to tell this to a girl?

This is actually an pretty important part of seduction: facing your fears and expanding your comfort zone. I can tell you a 1000 times what you are supposed to do but in the end you need to act. It's all about creating reference material.

2013-03-18T21:25:19+00:00

Stop putting so much pressure on yourself to succeed. Go out with the goal of failure. "Im not gonna give up until i've tried and been rejected by 20 girls"

And really... You're just making excuses and talking up your fear. Its more important to you that we know you "cant" do it than for you to be able to do it. Stop focusing on the fear, overcoming it doesnt mean killing it. It means being scared and instead of saying "im just so scared that i cant/wont" just say "im so scared. Thats fine. Its ok to be scared." And go forward anyway. You need to internalize the fact that NO reason is good enough for you to stop trying. Even if you has PTSD, thats no excuse to stop trying to go out and improve your life unless you let it be.

kingcal · 2013-03-19T04:26:12+00:00

I was in the exact same boat as you for a long time. Even longer. I didn't have sex until I was 24 years old. My first kiss was at like 21, but the next one was almost two years later. Once I lost a lot of weight, my experience with women started to take off really quickly, before I even knew anything about seduction. Still, I had those "what if I'm bad at sex" fears that you have. These are completely irrational fears. Your body is genetically engineered to have sex. You got here because of sex. It's a completely natural thing. Once you're in the moment, you'll know what to do. It isn't rocket science.

The first couple girls I took home from a bar, I was too afraid to even have sex. I'd make up some excuse at the last minute about being too drunk because I was so nervous. But once I met a girl I actually cared about and we went out for awhile, I felt comfortable having sex with her. And you know what? I rocked at it. The last three girls I've had sex with, all three have told me that I was the first to make them cum by going down on them. I don't feel that it's through any innate talent that I can do it. The most important thing is to just be enthusiastic about it. Want to do well. Don't just get off and go to sleep. Have fun making it good for her, too. Listen to what she tells you, either vocally or with her body. If something is working, don't fuck it up and change tactics. Keep doing it. If something isn't working, do something new. That's all it really takes.

Ebon_Cobra · 2013-03-19T05:16:02+00:00

I would murder a kitten to trade places with you...stop complaining and act. Why are you scared of some chick who's opinion doesn't matter?

cerebrum · 2013-03-19T08:16:10+00:00

It seem you are looking for some kind of formula. There is no such thing. Just get over it. I suspect that once you actually log field time and start getting rejections you will realize that it's not a big deal. Then you will kick yourself for not starting with the process earlier.

But it is important for your learning experience, you cannot learn without going in the field, and rejection will be part of it!

ClimbTREES · 2013-03-19T17:09:27+00:00

Today is the oldest you have ever been and the youngest you'll ever be. Move on.

ysef95 · 2013-03-18T17:41:50+00:00

yeah most people here have the right idea id also add that meditation and self actualisation can help you cant love other people until you love yourself.

In the end its all about just not giving a fuck

pigggybabe · 2013-03-18T16:47:26+00:00

shame? what shame?

HorseLifer · 2013-03-19T00:10:33+00:00

One of the things that helped me a ton with rejection is to reframe everything in a funny, positive way

One trick I did was to find something funny about every single interaction. This will make your night hilarious in ways you'd never think imaginable

1vibe · 2013-03-19T03:16:24+00:00

I lived in Thailand for 2 years. Go to Lamaii Beach, Koh Samui. Go to a go go bar. Get laid. (Do not fall in love, those girls will eat you for a snack!) Haters can down vote, but America is a f-d up culture. Make your first a 10!

TiberiusROX · 2013-03-18T18:16:18+00:00

You cant expect to even talk to pretty women if you have no sexual confidence or are a Virgin. I have a LOT of female friends and they think virgins are disgusting and needy. They love to make fun of guys that are virgins and be mean to them. Want out of this rut? Do exactly what I did. Go find some girl on PoF or OKCupid that nobody is messaging (look for fat girls) suck it up and pressure them to have sex with you. If they talk about relationships just tell them you have always had the best luck having sex first before a relationship. It is so fucking easy to manipulate these girls. Manipulate and fuck. You will then be un-virginized. Make a bunch of female friends and talk about sex with them after this. You will get used to talking about sex, you will have had sex and your sexual confidence will rise. Take it from me dude. I have absolutely nothing going for me. I am ugly and not funny at all really. BUT, I have the highest sexual confidence and sexual overtone to every part of my body language and expressions and this gets me constantly laid. I love talking about sex with girls it is fun and provocative (you can even do this at work with female co-workers, dont be a pussy). If you want to learn public speaking join a toastmasters club. there is one in every county of every state in the U.S.

2013-03-18T12:20:49+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	Can we talk about accepting failure, embarrassment and dealing with shame?
Author	UpvoterOmega
Upvotes	53
Comments	103
Date	March 18, 2013 11:47 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/1aipj3/can_we_talk_about_accepting_failure_embarrassment/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/can-we-talk-about-accepting-failure-embarrassment.1349116 https://theredarchive.com/post/1349116

Comments