This sub isn't what it used to be

StarwaysCongress · 2015-01-09T06:27:49+00:00

You can't post advice just because you're subscribed here. If you aren't sleeping with at least several women, don't give advice in /r/seduction.

Gold. I saw you acknowledged in the comments that it's ultimately experience with women that matter

OP, you're 100% correct. Nice guys and beginners stumble in here in staggering numbers, post their feel-good advice, and it gets upvoted because so many other nice guys hold the same fucked up view. All of a sudden, the clueless noobies are the outspoken majority and their fucked up opinions appear to be what's correct and most relevant. They inadvertently sabotage their (many) opportunities to learn and stay locked into their sexless hellhole they call life. They can't shut their fucking mouths and listen.

I remember a week back I shared the fact that you don't need to wear cologne to sleep with tons of girls. This fact is field tested by myself and others, and is advocated by industry-leading dating and pickup coaches. I was downvoted to -12 karma. Meanwhile I'm banging three girls a week and have over a dozen active numbers in my phone. Absolutely hilarious.

Edit: As you acknowledged in the comments, it's obvious that dating multiple women isn't necessarily what gives a person's advice credibility, rather their amount of experience and success with women.

couid · 2015-01-09T00:28:14+00:00

The girl he's taking out has already suggested a date for them to go on. To completely disregard this and lead her somewhere else would be disrespectful. I agree with you that leading is of huge importance with women but saying he can't go to where the woman suggested illustrates an extreme lack of confidence masked as macho wisdom.

He could very easily go to where the woman suggested, lead her there, lead the interaction, hold frame. Then after they enjoy themselves tell her about the follow up date that he has in mind.

I genuinely think you're wrong here, the supposed alpha attitude that "you must determine all aspects of the relationship" really displays an anxious lack of self belief. It's as if you're choking on the Red Pill.

just_lift · 2015-01-09T11:17:48+00:00

You can't post advice just because you're subscribed here. If you aren't sleeping with at least several women, don't give advice in /r/seduction.

Quoted for truth. The same thing happens for instance in /r/fitness. Dudes who can barely squat their body weight giving form critique. I know you want to be an expert and you want to help out newbies. Well, guess what, life isn't fair, not everybody is an expert. It's something you have to earn by putting a ton of hours in it. That's why I'm mostly lurking on here. Show some modesty and accept that you're a beginner.

gwizmcpyro · 2015-01-08T23:29:33+00:00

Holy shit OP. Just read your advice in that thread, and I'm just like, wtf is wrong with everyone downvoting you. I wholeheartedly agree with you, somewhere along the line this subreddit just took a nosedive into nice guy territory. Alot of these guys need to take a look at the guides put up by TofuTofu and b1ly, because they sure as hell do not know what the fuck they are talking about. Even back in the day, three years ago, ideas such as leading and qualifying girls were used in PUA.

If I may add something, I think what is going on in this subreddit has much to do with the coming of "natural game". Don't get me wrong, I like natural game. I like putting my own flair in how I do PUA. IMO, natural game is supposed to be alot looser than something like Mystery Method, but still borrowing some from the teaching's of Neil Strauss and Mystery. Take a look at RSD for examples. They still say you have to improve you life, and have goals other than women.

Natural game isn't supposed to be like the shit Simple Pickup puts out, where you can stay the way you are now, and "just be super confident and you'll be able to get the 10's in LA. People that spout that "confidence is the only thing that matters' are too lazy, and no different than the guys who wanted the one-liner for every occasion back when PUA first started. Confidence is important, but it's only one piece of the puzzle. Natural game should be about honing all aspects of your life,looks/fashion/money/status/confidence/personality/goals/game. Not some feel good shit, we're supposed to feel some discomfort, as we become the best man we can.

/rant

addyye · 2015-01-09T02:12:26+00:00

"There's a lot of nice people here with good morals but you are failing to realize that your nice guy mentality is what is holding you back" What i say to most of the guys i know. people are giving wrong advise. im new to reddit but i do read alot about male masculinity and game, and by this post i can agree that you write beneficial advise.

puaCurveBall · 2015-01-08T23:20:19+00:00

Couple things... we can't control who comes from /all and decides to give advice. Bad advice is removed when it is reported.

Secondly... if you are getting downvoted 50% of the time, work on the tone of your advice and how it is communicated. There is a lot of good advice that doesn't get downvoted due to whiteknighting or anything else.

I agree with the rest of the content of your post :)

8sweettooth8 · 2015-01-09T08:51:43+00:00

I've read a shitload of feel-good advice on here by people who, apparently, don't know anything about seduction but think they do because they've been a subscribed to this sub for a period of time.

Take this one for example, a thread about how to ask a girl for her name -_- Most of the posts on there are just fucking ridiculous advice made by people who clearly don't know shit about seduction.

I don't think we need a criteria that says "if you've slept with X amount of women you can post here". However, I do STRONGLY believe that if you don't know what you're talking about then you shouldn't post on here. The fact of the matter is that the advice we give affects peoples lives and that's a huge responsiblity. Therefore, advice should be given out carefully and by those qualified to do so.

recyclablebantha · 2015-01-09T14:06:10+00:00

You can't post advice just because you're subscribed here. If you aren't sleeping with at least several women, don't give advice in /r/seduction.

You know, I agree with you on much here, but I still found myself fighting the urge to disagree with you because of all the bile and negativity in your presentation. I had to work hard to read this clearly. Rants like this are perhaps just as much the reason that this sub-Reddit is "not how it used to be." EDIT: Or misunderstandings like the one that led to this rant are.....

It's a Mexican Standoff between the guys who have one style of pick-up, and guys with another style. And it's frustrating to see because both sides have wisdom but get caught up in semantics.

....There's a lot of nice people here with good morals but you are failing to realize that your nice guy mentality is what is holding you back.....it means you're not taking control of situations and being man enough much of the time......

I kind of agree with you. Confidence = good. Being a push-over = bad.

But you seem to be advocating for overt control as the measure of "power," and as a prerequisite for confidence. Which it is not. I have seen people hold the real power while someone else is allowed to "call the shots."

When a woman that says she's going to take charge of the situation and lead you around, she's essentially, even if it's on a subconscious level, expecting you to man up and take the reigns.

Should he express no opinion and let himself be dragged around like an accessory, NO. We agree about this.

But too much of your stance on this is negative and exaggerated. You saw a threat here to OPs manhood and I saw a woman who was excited to validate herself and her city to him. This woman was excited to validate herself to a guy. Reacting to something positive like that with fear is the opposite of confidence.

EDIT: I realize after seeing even more of what you've posted, that a lot of your apparent stance is just a matter of unfortunate word choice......

piggydog · 2015-01-09T04:48:53+00:00

Word!

midnightbean · 2015-01-09T05:02:32+00:00

Spot on. Recently 27, nice for a long time... dated a lot of beautiful women and it never fails. It has little to do with being a great guy who listens, is there and is faithful. And you may sleep with a lot of women being a nice guy, but rarely does a nice guy end up in a relationship that isn't a comfort of sorts. And by nice that is as OP said, not taking charge.

And the sad part is this isn't necessarily a good thing. I know a girl who married a guy who wasn't right for her because she likes abusive men. He pressured and demanded she get out of bed the first night they dated. Perhaps women and men have different levels of assertiveness, I think men who aren't often end up with very aggressive women who boss them around and women who are quite indecisive with men who are very controlling. It only makes sense.

farfennugen · 2015-01-09T12:53:28+00:00

The issue is that there is no easy way out and many of the people left in this sect don't want to swallow that. If you find out what it takes to be seductive, it means you found out you need to make your own identity and achieve depth. Achieving depth means branching to your interests and reading on specific topics like not giving a fuck, fashion advice, and your hobbies. This is why I always suggest Mark Manson's Models. Become your own man. The pick-up lines are not useful if you can't come up with them. Wit is toned like like a muscle, not researched.

If this sub branched out into useful topics and not as much "I fucked a girl last night, here's what happened", it might turn out alright. And it's not just that, many of the authors or PUA personas seem to jump into the same model of making a blog with titles like "BE THE ALPHA MALE SHE WANTS", or "10 REASONS HER LEGS AREN'T QUIVERING WHEN YOU ARE DONE". 2 paragraphs in, and you already know its click bait and they hardly have a grip on the human psyche. There are no easy ways out. I would like to see more in-depth subjects bordering something that would be in /r/GetMotivated, but useful enough for men who yearn to be the man they want to be to use as an instrument in their success

davidtee6969 · 2015-01-09T16:59:25+00:00

OP, I never get given "Shit tests" by hot girls. Nor do I get approach anxiety, flakes, rejections and LMR. And now you're thinking "BULLSHIT", right?

Allow me to explain...

I do not treat interactions with women as an opportunity to pick them up so that I can feel good about myself. Women sense that immediately. They sense that I am in no way needy at all. This makes them flock to me.

It really is as simple as that.

The advice "Just be yourself" is the best advice possible. There is no point in using pickup tricks to disguise your needy core, because the cracks will show eventually. Your pickup tricks won't help and your needy core will be revealed when you find the hottest of the hot girls who you want to keep around.

If "yourself" isn't somebody who you don't believe women would be interested in meeting and would be naturally attracted to, then you need to WORK ON YOURSELF, NOT YOUR GAME.

Jigsus · 2015-01-12T11:09:45+00:00

It's not that you're wrong but you come off as an asshole in your posts. Using outdated bro lingo like beta, alpha and putting vitriol in your advice will get you nowhere.

You'll probably reply something like "if you can't stand the heat stay out of the fire" or some bullshit like that but you don't have to be an asshole to be effective, assertive and get ahead.

raimondi1337 · 2015-01-09T04:59:59+00:00

Your content is correct but your tone makes you sound like a dick to the carebears that use reddit.

God I hate this website.

alex0919 · 2015-01-09T00:05:33+00:00

While I agree with lots of this, you need to accept the regular nice guys are finding out about this, and believe it or not, 99% of Reddit is that demographic. I had a similar reaction when I showed men who they dress can definitely effect how they come across with a woman, I got lots of bitter fatalistic people who tried to bring me down, because they were afraid to improve.

All you need to do is ignore them, they aren't helping you improve, misery loves company, do you want to give them that company with your reactions?

Everything you said in this post conveys you know what the fuck you're doing unlike most nice guys who, and I've been downvoted tons for telling the truth, if there were lots of the best, then the best would have to be better, it's lonely at the top.

And regarding your post that got downvoted, let him fail with that girl, because that's what's going to happen. The top advice is to do a series of mini dates; I look at that and am actually disgusted, why invest that much time when all you need to do is grab a coffee or something simple, talk for 2-3h, escalate the vibe to sexy, and invite her home to have sex all night.

Let them be mediocre, winners want to help you win, losers want you to lose with them. Are you going to keep winning like you convey, or are you going to let a couple of nice guy pushovers let you lose with them?

shitonmycock · 2015-01-09T19:25:21+00:00

If you aren't sleeping with at least several women, don't give advice in /r/seduction.

How about this? "If you aren't seducing and sleeping with at least a few beautiful women, don't give advice in /r/seduction."

Because,

Several women doesn't necessarily indicate that you're picky.
Sleeping with a woman without seducing her means you're just getting lucky here and there.

This sub isn't what it used to be

I arrived here late, so I'm not sure what it used to be and "when" it was that. I get the vibe that what it is now is a sub where guys with problems like social anxiety and extreme nervousness are coming here to try and get to date 1. I also get the vibe that getting "lucky" counts, and being a supplicative bitch also counts. There's no point in sleeping with a beautiful woman if she has control over you.

shitsfuckedupalot · 2015-01-09T02:08:35+00:00

here here.

biggalactus · 2015-01-09T04:06:47+00:00

What did your comment say? I can't see it. Maybe because I'm on mobile?

But I agree with you. This and these sorry guys coming in not reading the side bar with the saddest story about how they were ignored by everyone all their life and "don't even know if it's worth trying". With every nice guy comment about just being happy and confidant. Basically sucking them off to make them feel better without any tough truth or direction to the side bar.

ZeroGfiddy · 2015-01-09T04:49:33+00:00

I think people are confused with "being yourself" and "taking something unfamiliar and making it natural." We are just a culmination of habits built up over a long period of time. If what we are doing isn't working, we need to take something new and more effective, and grind it in to make it the new nominality.

Regarding the shit test thing, anyone who has ever been sarcastic, or poked fun at, or made light attacks against a friend just as a fun little joke, has already performed shit tests of their own. It's just a quick way to gauge the mental toughness of those around them, and break down the standard polite-to-strangers protocol.

infernalsatan · 2015-01-09T06:03:26+00:00

On the other hand, all child comments after your advice were deleted.

Trolls perhaps?

AlexWIWA · 2015-01-09T08:27:32+00:00

All the blogspam feeding these kids needs to stop as well.

2udaylatif · 2015-01-09T13:05:52+00:00

Agreed

schluecker · 2015-01-09T14:23:25+00:00

Thanks for your service.

RemySheppard · 2015-01-09T16:04:35+00:00

Relevant.

Kvantemekanik · 2015-01-09T17:47:30+00:00

It's probably because you used the word 'beta'. People don't like when the vocabulary of /r/theredpill is used, even though a lot of it is true.

I also find it funny how much 'advice' there is from guys who just got laid after a dry spell of like 5 month. Like they are suddenly master of seduction.

lntzaki · 2015-01-11T04:42:54+00:00

Holy f*ck. Saved and screenshooted. Thanks man.

eimoosoo · 2015-01-13T19:09:20+00:00

Women like a man that leads. It turns them on.

Women are constantly throwing you shit tests to see if you're worthy. The hotter the girl is the more shit tests you're going to have to pass. This is real people. When a woman that says she's going to take charge of the situation and lead you around, she's essentially, even if it's on a subconscious level, expecting you to man up and take the reigns.

/endrant

I have a question in regards to this specific comment. How to respond to the shit tests? Like for example, we havent talked in a few days and she msgs me 'Fuck you', just to see what I'll do. Do I just deflect it in an honorable way or do I need to chase her down and take control of the situation some how? I don't want to encourage her, but should I be supportive?

Diece · 2015-01-09T03:26:14+00:00

There is no morals in seduction. Sexual strategy is amoral.

firelordozai17 · 2015-01-09T01:07:55+00:00

I just upvoted your comment OP, cheers <3

AusCro · 2015-01-09T15:06:00+00:00

Could the mods put in restrictions for who posts? They do it in other subreddits.

truchisoft · 2015-01-09T19:56:48+00:00

This is why /r/TheRedPill was created, /r/seduction without the politically correctness shit.

That also is abused by a lot of mysoginistic fucks, and crazy people, but there are crazies everywhere, if you can filter the absurd and crazy you get some great advices.

SexySmexxy · 2015-01-09T00:35:55+00:00

You can't post advice just because you're subscribed here. If you aren't sleeping with at least several women, don't give advice in /r/seduction[5] .

If you're piss poor advice keeps getting downvoted to the bottom half of the time, take the hint and get some good advice?

Also don't post butthurt submissions about how the whole sub is changing just because you get downvoted.

This is where experienced pick up artists, people that know what they are doing with women, are here to help you guys out.

I was under the impression this was a subreddit about self improvement and seducing women.

Not /r/howtosleepwithmultiplewomen

Anyways, if your advice is shit and you keep getting downvoted maybe you should just leave bro.

nojloi · 2015-01-09T12:55:01+00:00

That's the Internet bro!

blueredgreenorange · 2015-01-09T13:21:40+00:00

People might argue that I myself contributed to this decline in quality when it comes to stories and advice being posted with my last post two weeks ago (I'm the guy who left the girl alone when I realized she had a boyfriend). And if you think that, that's fine. It was a story I wanted to share where I saw a lot of potential for new joiners to learn what it means to value yourself and your own believes more than pussy. And I think there has to be a place for content like that as well. But that's a different story.

I completely agree with you, OP, when it comes to the quality of actual advice being given. Having the goal of self-improvement in mind, the idea of acting like yourself, the way you basically always did, makes absolutely no sense. Where's the improvement, then? I would really like to see more content in the direction of ridiculously detailed field reports that actually help people who are just starting in the world of seduction to understand the concept, the steps that are being taken and the ideas behind the individual steps. This is actually what this sub was like two to three years ago, and I enjoyed it very much as it really helped me level up my game.

I disagree with your last sentence, though. I've slept with quite a number of women myself but currently find myself in a situation where I just don't need it. Still, I have the skills that I acquired quite some time ago and I can put them into action at any given moment. So I would just say people who are conviced that their input can make a valuable difference when it comes to approaching women should be able to make suggestions – and if the quality of the content keeps declining, those who wish to keep high standard PUA discussions (that are not TRP style) will need to find another home. In the end, we're all learning how to take control of situations, aren't we?

Title	This sub isn't what it used to be
Author	RiseAboveRuin
Upvotes	143
Comments	73
Date	January 8, 2015 10:07 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/2rsflc/this_sub_isnt_what_it_used_to_be/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/this-sub-isnt-what-it-used-to-be.1382030 https://theredarchive.com/post/1382030

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