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[–]The_Meep_Lord16 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
And what does the average man get for all of this effort?
To get someone at the level he was before he started improving himself. And at that point, she is no longer worthy of him.
Why should we change everything about ourselves to have the privilege of accepting someone for who they are?
To satiate women’s lust and be used by her until she gets bored and leaves for someone else? A woman who wanted to use you, your wants and needs are not even considered.
If a woman can love a man, she will one him for who he is. Changing who you are for something as frivolous as women’s lust is sad.
How about instead of wasting our time appeasing others got the sake of external validation, we just live for ourselves just like women do?
Just for a shitty drug that will leave all men disappointed and wishing they did something else instead in a few decades.
And I am ignoring the problems. Only top 20% can be in the top 20%. All men working harder will do is increase how much work they must do to get less then yesterday.
It is why simping is a thing now (end path of being the best beta) and why women are so unbearable to be around.
Spoiling women will just leave men disappointed and empty.
[–]herm-dawg7 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I get the whole 'self-improvement scheme' and don't have a problem with it. The problem I have is when someone wants to come along and tell me that's a requirement, which didn't exist for other people in the past. It's about the price of admission you're asking somebody. I'm not jumping through any hoops nobody else had to go through. And especially if it means they got the better 'you' than I'm getting.
If more women want to understand why they can't find a man with a stable career who's in good financial standing, is handsome and takes care of himself and has a good head on his shoulders, that pool is increasingly diminishing, because men can't get what they want from women even if they go that route. "Why would I even try if getting that won't attract a woman with few or no sexual parters who knows how to cook and is family oriented?" That's not on the table anymore. How many of those exist in today's society? So what happens is men just give up and stop trying.
[–]Pola_Lita0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
That's not on the table anymore.
You're talking about a time when women's choices were marriage or doom and a man was her only escape from living as the child of her parents. What's the point in grumbling because that world is gone? Society progresses and that wasn't really a nice time for women in a LOT of ways.
As for expecting that situation in our current world, how many men can really afford to fully support a wife and 3 or 4 kids in a reasonably comfortable life? And why expect more than the occasional woman to find that style of life rewarding, considering the amount of dependence, sacrifice and isolation it usually means for a SAHM?
As for not "jumping through any hoops nobody else had to go through", that's pretty much how the entire world works. Blaming women (who also have to jump) for it is crazy. Times change and they always will. We sure didn't invent it.
[–]herm-dawg3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
You're talking about a time when women's choices were marriage or doom and a man was her only escape from living as the child of her parents.
This is the kind of statement you can only make in complete ignorance of the rest of the world.
What's the point in grumbling because that world is gone? Society progresses and that wasn't really a nice time for women in a LOT of ways.
Yeah, you don't pay very close attention to world trends, do you? Do you know how demographic shifts are going to affect people's retirement plans due to a contracting workforce? Are you aware of the problems climate change is going to bring?:
h t t p s : / / t i n y u r l . c o m / y 7 z z 4 n j y
(Episodes "Economics and thermodynamics" and "The mineral supply crisis that's rarely talked about.)
I hope you have fun for the future you've laid out for yourself. You (and even most men) don't have the slightest clue about the trends our way of life has set in motion.
I'm an economist that works doing healthcare research. Do you know why men can't afford that way of life anymore? It isn't complicated. And women's current lifestyle haven't absolved themselves of the same familial responsibilities they've always had to begin with. What, you think just because you have a job, your laundry isn't still waiting at home for you? Even women aren't completely stupid and have shown why their 'independence' hasn't made them as independent as they think they are.
Times change and they always will.
I hope you're prepared for it. That wrecking ball isn't on the horizon. It's already here.
[–]ethicsssss2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Why do you write down the link like that?
[–]herm-dawg2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Reddit censors the link, so I have to space the letters apart. It'll let you post it. But then log out and refresh the thread, your post won't be there.
[–]Pola_Lita1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Then what are you complaining for? Yeah, you don't pay very close attention to world trends, do you? Do you know how demographic shifts are going to affect people's retirement plans due to a contracting workforce? Are you aware of the problems climate change is going to bring?:
Then what are you complaining for?
Hahaha. Why do you think I'm not responding to a post in a sub about climate change??
Doesn't matter. All I need to know for the argument I'm making is that they can't. And if you think the changing times' effect on women's independence, options, goals, socialization, etc., can be summed up in a pile of laundry, you're lots more ignorant about social change than I could ever be about healthcare research.
So settle down. Thanks.
[–]herm-dawg1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Someone idolizes me, ;).
Whoosh
Doesn't matter.
Hahahaha, ✌️.
This is the kind of statement you can only make in complete ignorance of the rest of the world. Someone idolizes me, ;).
You, I guess? I didn't write that.
Hahaha. Why do you think I'm not responding to a post in a sub about climate change?? Whoosh
No... Not "woosh" but rather, it doesn't matter whether I know lots about it or only a little about climate change, because no matter how far you try to reach, it still has nothing to do with the question at hand.
Doesn't matter. Hahahaha, ✌️.
When you've finished laughing, read the above.
Dear honestly, I doubt you know much of anything.
Hahahah. *Condescending* doesn't work if you don't say anything smart along with it.
Thanks anyway.
[–]Urbantexasguy0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
You seem intent on constantly shifting the goalposts, and bringing in unrelated concepts. “Whataboutism” doesn’t help your case….whatever your case is, it seems to change by the second.
There is a bottom line here….men and women both deserve the right to live their lives as they please, in terms of education, career and family. The rest will take care of themselves.
Incidentally, we could use a MASSIVE reduction in population, even if it makes social security and a few other institutions that NEVER should have been around to begin with, unworkable. A reduction in population isn’t a terrible thing, if society is structured properly.
[–]herm-dawg0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
TL;DR
Yeah, that's what I thought.
You thought?
Yeah, Looks like we're done here....if you want to try to convince every woman to be Phyllis Schlafly, be my guest....you won't have much luck. Just don't be an enemy of personal liberty.
There...Short enough for you?......Do I need to use smaller words or shorter sentences? "See spot run" maybe?
Can you try better punctuation?
[–]Deadlocked025 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
He gets someone who doesn’t put 1/3 of the effort he puts on self-improvement.
[–]CimZim4 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Exactly this. If you have to change who you are...your actual personality and significant parts of your body...in order to find love, can it even really be called that? Genuine love is cherishing a man for who he actually is, both his good parts and flaws, his problems and goals. He's a full person, and deserves to be loved as such.
Which is why I've always been a strong supporter of mgtow. It's the healthiest option for a man, to decide what he wants out of life and pursue it, whether that includes sex or a relationship or neither.
[–]The_Meep_Lord5 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
We are asking men to get the equivalent of boob jobs and be virgin and barefoot, it is absurd.
Women are just as fat and unattractive as men. And women use makeup and shit for Themselves.
[–]CimZim3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Truth. Unrealistic expectations hurt everyone, it's not a gendered issue. Of course, people should try to remain relatively healthy but the problems we're talking about go beyond that.
One thing I'd note is that if a woman does wear makeup, I don't think she should consider her cosmetic look the same as her normal look. I don't use it myself, but most of my female relatives do...they don't look like completely different people, obviously, but it certainly raises their SMV by at least a point, sometimes 2. Basically if a woman is a 8 with makeup and a 6 without, it would be more realistic for her to use her true SMV when dating.
[–]343_peaches_and_tea4 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
What women do you know that live for themselves and don't spend ridiculous amounts of time trying to appease others?
It's a major issue women can often have that they spend too much time on other people and end up burning themselves out.
Feminism is literally just that….any women who is not striving to be a traditional women is just that.
What is being asked of men is just absurd. That is the real issue.
Asking a man to lose some weight or shower? Sure.
Asking a man to spend years of sacrifice to be attractive to his previous equal? Absurd
There is just a difference between giving anything and giving everything.
Demanding someone strive to be in the top 20% to get with there previous equal is the later.it is the equivalent of asking women to be barefoot housewives.
Then you agree with me.
Having a skill that can earn enough to help support a family is too much of a sacrifice?
What do you mean by "previous equal"?
How can this equal giving everything? What are you expecting to give when you're expecting a woman to commit everything?
[–]The_Meep_Lord1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Yes, yes it is.
Do you understand women wanted the right to work and now it is expected of them to work right?
Most men make 30,000+ which is all that is needed if she also works.
Exactly that
Women give very, very little to men in relationships. Even when it comes to things she does give, it is mutual and both benefit (ex: sex and kids).
Having a skill that can earn enough to help support a family is too much of a sacrifice? Yes, yes it is. Do you understand women wanted the right to work and now it is expected of them to work right?
How do you imagine the other half of your required funding would be met if you were helping to support a family? Why do you think I said "help"?
Were you making 30,000 straight out of high school? Or, if it's not a matter of salary, what are you referring to that takes years and years of sacrifice?
What do you mean by "previous equal"? Exactly that
Demanding someone strive to be in the top 20% to get with there previous equal is the later.
"Previous" to what or whom? "Equal" in what measure? Quality, volume, personality, earning power? It's a reasonable question.
How can this equal giving everything? What are you expecting to give when you're expecting a woman to commit everything? Women give very, very little to men in relationships. Even when it comes to things she does give, it is mutual and both benefit (ex: sex and kids).
Again, what are you expecting to give? You're looking for commitment, right? As in time, money, effort, exclusivity, etc.? So what are you expecting to give for it?
[–]RavioliPocketoli19993 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Based
[–]Y6152 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
You have a good point here.
[–]Pnakotico3110 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Women made eye contact with you and you think you’re top 20%?
[–]gimpgirl5552 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
The delusion is real. Guys in the top 20% have female orbiters.
This just isn't true as a general principle and it goes to the heart of why so many men get pissed off when they hear this. I'll just link to the post where I've already addressed this mentality.
Just imagine a man, let's say around 25. He feels like he's doing alright in life for the most part. He's a working professional, no supermodel but not bad looking, doesn't go out and party but has a few close friends. But he's never been able to get a girl to give him the time of day. All of his friends and coworkers have girlfriends, some are married, and some might even have kids. And he thinks to himself, "Hmm, I did all the stuff society said I was supposed to do. I went to college, got a good job, got friends, got hobbies, exercised, put myself out there, but ladies still won't talk to me. What's up with that?" The self-perception that they've done the "right things" is often false, but not always. This is another thing that I think people overlook. If we believe in allowing people to date or not date whoever they want (I personally don't), then that means you can do everything "right" and still lose.
Lack of success doesn't prove lack of effort.
People don't live in a just world. Your ability to get a girlfriend has nothing to do with your moral character, and women aren't avoiding certain men because they can "just tell" he's a bad person. Crack addicts and chronic abusers have girlfriends. I'm not saying women are all into physically attractive men who are jerks, but I am saying that being an upstanding citizen is demonstrably not a requirement. And when you look at those people and think to yourself "I may not be perfect, but I'm not worse than that guy... and yet I'm still alone", it can sting pretty bad. Not only that, but there's a strong argument to be made that women have most of the advantages in modern gender dynamics, both legally and socially. Legally, a woman can leave you at any time, and take the kids and half your shit, plus alimony/child support. She gets bored of you in ten years? Tough shit homie, should've been born psychic. Women can also call sexual harassment over anything or nothing. Actually manage to have sex and she regrets it afterward? Made a slightly off color joke that your female coworker took offense to? The large majority of the time the world and courts will "Listen and Believe", and your life is over. Most women aren't psychopaths, but firefighters don't run into a burning building with a plan to die either and despite the measures taken against that possibility, it still happens. It just isn't worth it. Whether it's getting "MeToo'd," or she's just not "haaaappppyyy" anymore, or whatever it is.
Socially, there are far more men looking for women than the other way around. Practically all a woman has to do to get a date is exist and not be fat. A man has to have all the things I mentioned about concerning jobs and hobbies and friends, and that's basically the expectation at a minimum. I've seen men say "I've got all the things society told me to get in order to be attractive to women" only to be met with "So does everybody else, what else you got?"
It just isn't worth it.
The OP is a great example because yes while it's true that some men can and do benefit with your approach, it fails to explain why so many more who tread the path fail to succeed when doing it. This is yet another example of doing what the women here do all the time, playing 'hide the ball' with the reality of what's actually going on. The reason men get pissed off so much has less to do with their lack of success and has more to do with them being constantly lied to about why things actually are the way they are.
[–]Barneysparky2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
You've stated that women should be men's property.
Perhaps it's your contempt for women that's causing you to be dateless?
[–]Det_Steve_Sloan11 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I am openly (playfully) misogynistic with women. I am good looking. I get good looking women easily. Quit trying to act like being a male feminist will solve these guys' problems.
Women secretly abhor 'feminist' men, rightly, because they are bitches. Even feminist women want a protector for a man.
[–]Spread-Em-Plz7 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
You know, I've developed an interesting game related to this.
The game is to keep track how many women agreed with stuff that would be considered misogynistic or how often they find misogynistic jokes hilarious
I was quite surprised with how often women would agree with statements like "Bitches ain't shit" or "None of these hoes are loyal"
[–]Det_Steve_Sloan3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Yeah, the ones who take worst offense usually are ugly and know that trying to engage in a game of shit-talk that may lead to flirting isn't going to work regardless of what they do, so they compensate with lunatic toxic feminism.
If I trash the entire female gender I often get "Oh you're trouble teehee" from good looking women, but you gotta have tact and don't be a dickhead.
[–]Spread-Em-Plz1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Oh yeah you certainly have to have tact
And it's also important that you're funny while doing it, because if you sound bitter, that definitely won't be any good.
[–]DerekMorganBAU6 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Abusers can fuck women why are you capping right now
[–]Mustbeaight2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Lol you played yourself.
No, I'm stating that they are. There's no such thing as an unowned woman.
Dates? Don't know. Don't care. Sex? No problems.
[–]LalaTheSecond1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
More like a there's no such thing as an unowned citizen. If anything men are more owned because if something happens the government will make them do their bidding.
Dear, men aren't constantly in search of the man they want to be captured and dominated by.
I think men think of top corporations like that all of the time.
Wherever that came from...
[–]Pola_Lita-2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I think your attitude toward women has contributed a LOT toward their attitude toward you. I don't see how it could be avoided.
[–][deleted]7 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Women love to make this argument despite the fact that it should be obvious to anyone with eyes and ears that lots and lots of openly misogynistic and abusive men, who are also very attractive, easily move from hookup to hookup or date to date.
Just world fallacy has a very tight grip on you guys (only in regard to men though, obviously).
[–]LalaTheSecond2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Why do you like low class women? I mean if your argument is women shouldn't like horrible men why do you want horrible women? Aren't you grossed out by that?
[–][deleted]6 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
See? Just-world fallacy again. Your question is not answerable because it makes a false assumption. I don’t want horrible women. But you act like it’s only horrible women who can be observed getting aroused by top tier men being openly misogynistic, and that’s not true. It’s just how you justify it to yourself.
Because acting like that would make them horrible? I mean there's no way i'd ever be attracted to a man who slept with a prostitute because I would be disgusted by their behavior. It doesn't matter what they look like.
[–][deleted]2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
If you believe that acting that way makes them horrible, then what conclusion is to be drawn from the observation that most women seem to act that way?
Draw whatever conclusion you want. I think most men are gross but I don't drool after the ones who's behavior I don't like. That would be wierd.
I’m asking you though, and you seem to be dodging like usual. That’s disappointing. Funny how you’re willing to say it about men but not women.
I'm not attracted to women so I don't find their behavior off putting sexually. You do or maybe you don't since you aren't bothered by it enough to make them not attractive to you.
[–][deleted]1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Expert hamstering, cadet. I expected no less! We’ll make a feminist of you yet.
How is it hamstering? If you find someone's behavior disturbing you shouldn't be worried about who they are with, you shouldn't be attracted to them anymore.
You called them horrible, not me. What conclusion should be drawn if one thinks a behavior makes a woman horrible and most women seem to engage in jt? Come on, you can do it!
I don't think most women engage in it, you do.
What conclusion should be drawn? Come on, you got this!
That women that like misogynic men are low class and a minority of women but yet you still want them and blame women for it?
Ah, so close. You just couldn’t resist taking a jab. Oh well. Better luck next time I guess.
Also missing the point on purpose, but again, not unexpected!
No your trying to blame women for your own lack of standards. That's basically the theme of this sub.
*You're.
Try crossing your arms and harrumphing a lot. A white knight will be along shortly to provide whatever it is you want in this moment.
“You don’t have any standards!” said the CEO to the homeless man. Classic!
Don't you think if men had some standards most of the problems here would be solved?
I'm happy to answer your question after you've answered mine (honestly and not maliciously)!
What is your question? I already told you i don't think most women want misogynistic guys. None of my friends ended up with guys like that and if anything it is a liability when it comes to having a decent job and having a healthy relationship. I don't think most men are of the last two generations are misogynistic either.
The question I've asked you two or three times now. Have you been reading my replies? I'll ask it again. Try reading it very slowly and sounding out the words this time:
If one believes that women doing a behavior makes them horrible, and one also observes that most women seem to do that behavior, what conclusion is to be made?
That you think most women are horrible but you still want to have sex with them. It is that which I think is interesting when it comes to men. I don't find men I find horrible sexually attractive or want to be with them.
Lots of pointed "you" statements in this answer, when I was asking a hypothetical. I guess I won't get a non malicious answer from you because you want to attack me for my beliefs. Still not surprised, but disappointed again. Oh well!
Because you just want me to parrot what you believe. You want me to say that the majority of women are horrible people that only want misogynistic men when we know that isn't true just by what women have fought for and how this changed society. If that was true women's rights would have never been a thing and women would have enjoyed being repressed as a group of people forever.
More assumptions and excuses for not answering a hypothetical question, when the real reason is that you're not even willing to discuss a hypothetical scenario where women aren't all angels who are perpetual victims of men. How can women be so sensitive and still expect to be taken seriously?
Flexing those hamstering skills again though, very impressive!
Sorry reality doesn't mesh with your world view. Enjoy taking no responsibility to what you are attracted to though.
Lol. The irony.
Did I say that they don't? How could it matter in the scope of my comment, anyway?
So your idea here is that women who don't believe we're naturally deserving of hostility are being willingly semi-delusional in thinking hostility directed outward usually results in hostility returned, rather than just acknowledging our own good fortune of being liked and appreciated for no good reason?
Maybe less "Just world fallacy" here and more Occam's razor.
[–]herm-dawg4 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Uh huh, lol. And go ahead and tell me what my life experience with women has been.
Man I can't wait to hear this.
I guess you could have invented all of this or willingly accepted 2nd hand tales as objective enough but I gave you the benefit of the doubt.
This just isn't the usual POV of a man who's been well received by women in general.
There's no way a woman who says something like this has a life away from the computer screen.
Oh. Okay.
[–]Mustbeaight1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Lol imagine being this naive.
"misogyny is a relegion [sic] and i am its Jesus"
Nevermind.
[–]Lonelybuthopeful94 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Yeah, if the guy already is overweight he can look better with a simple diet.
Doesnt work for me tho, as I am already not fat
[–]Blightning4214 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Men can't be taller without dangerous and expensive surgery
That's not a viable option, and any man under '6 is below average to women, let alone top 20%
[–]Deadlocked023 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Dude, you’re from Malaysia, from what I can see in your profile. 5’9 is high for the county. It’s not really small anywhere in the world in my book, except in a few countries, but specially not in Malaysia. It never fails, whenever a guy comes to talk about how all you need to do is up your game, get a haircut or some BS like this, to talk about how he’s successful despite being average, he’s really not as average as he thinks he is.
Sometimes I wonder if people here have ever truly stepped outside their house or not. I've been privy to so many social occasions where a physically attractive looking man can openly deride a woman in public in a group of 5-6 and everyone laughs, and a less attractive guy steps in and introduces himself and gets the most eye-rolling, condescending, take-a-step-back behavior from the women in the group. I've seen it hundreds of times.
I previously worked with a guy years ago who was a pretty attractive looking man, and probably a narcissist as well. He was an outdoor type of guy, who took pictures of himself with his shirt off, at the beach, etc., and had them taped and placed all over his monitor at work. Women in the department would come up and make sexual gestures at him, flirt with him insinuate sexual advances, etc., all the time; and he would reply in kind. And this was at a professional level where this kind of behavior is strictly and clearly prohibited. Other men would instantaneously get a sexual harassment charge filed against them with the HR department if they made an overture like that to any of the women. Why is one successful and the other isn't? In reality it isn't hard to understand.
[–]TheElusivePeacock2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Well yea. Attractive people get away with a lot more than unattractive people. Men and women. I’ve seen women get jobs in my industry based solely off the fact that the man who gave her the job wanted to sleep with her. One in particular, this was a trainer position. She was highly incompetent, a rude bitch, snobby and just generally an unpleasant person. So a bitch, having employees unprepared, causing high turnover and tons of employee dissatisfaction and complaints about her attitude and general terrible attitude. But she was hot. So men didn’t there didn’t care. I’ve also seen hot men get way better treatment at work for flirting than ugly men. Hot guy? Let’s get a drink afterwards. Ugly guy? Let’s hit up HR afterwards. This is life. Men will let an attractive woman get away with far more shit with him than a fat ass ugly woman. And women will let a hottie get away with far more shit than a short ass unattractive man. That’s where gold diggers and terms like don’t stick your dick in crazy come from. Men not caring about any of that shit because a woman is hot. And same for women. I don’t see what’s wrong with anyone admitting attractive people get treated better or certain treatment is seen as charming if the person is hot.
I used to watch that show Vampire Diaries. Huge fan. A someone asked a question why Damon (Ian Somerholder for those who don’t know, go ahead and look him up, prime Chad material) got away with so much shit and I said we all know the answer. He’s hot. He’s hot as fuck. He’s smoking hot. Same way most men didn’t care about Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie. She was HOT. Attractive people can and always have and always will get away with bad behavior. My only issue is you seem to maybe think only women do this. It’s definitely not only women. And it’s also not saying being an attractive man or woman is an automatic pass for bad behavior. A lot of us grow up and don’t tolerate that shit from people, attractive or not. But a lot of people don’t grow up. So hey, that’s life.
So hey, that’s life.
Good luck getting the hoes on this sub to admit that.
[–]Barneysparky-3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Women roll there eyes at you because of what is said, not who is saying it.
[–]C4yourshelf5 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Sure buddy halo effect isn't a thing.
Are you following me around in my comments?
[–]logiauser3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
None of this means you’re in the top 20% though.
[–]gimpgirl5553 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
In my personal experience as an “average” man who improved a lot by losing 30 pounds, becoming lean and muscular, always keep my facial hair clean shaven, fitting cloth, good body posture (due to weight lost) and good hair cut. I have seen women checking me out a lot and even accidentally making an eye contact couple of times with them. My social skills also improve a lot because I feel confident with my body. Before you said anything about my height, I’m 5’9.
So your payout from all of this was "eye contact" seriously?
Isn't that proof that effort doesn't work? If you're going to put in months of work there needs to be a guaranteed payout.
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[–]honeypuppy2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
The "top 20%" is actually pretty unexceptional. Like being 6'0 alone is "Top 20%". Some people have this mental image of a "Chad" who is actually something like a 0.1%er.
[–]lulll1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
i keep seeing this type of thread pop up. i can't figure out if the guys who make them want to pat themselves on the back or they want other people to pat them on the back
[–]LalaTheSecond0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I doubt 80% of the male population goes to the gym 3 times a week, eats healthy, gets clothes that actually fit them and has a good barber and skin care regiment so you are probably right.
If I do that stuff so there's no reason why I shouldn't expect the same from men.
[–]Perseus_the_Bold2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
The effort has to be worth the prize.
Men: ask yourselves - What am I shooting for? Are you doing it all just to get some pussy? Or are you doing it all just to get a better life for yourself with or without the pussy? The better life is one in which you would still be well off without pussy. Because if you need a woman in your life in order to be happy then you've already failed at it.
[–]TheJim661 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Yes. As long as he puts effort towards the things TRP says matter and not whatever delusion bloops think is important, sure.
[–]whymustveibeenborn1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Lmao, keep dreaming
[–]Gari_3051 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
In my personal experience as an “average” man who improved a lot by losing 30 pounds, becoming lean and muscular
You're talking about the body game which does work.
[–]wtknight1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I don’t know about top 20%, but the more effort a man puts in, the higher the attractiveness the women will be that will send him IOIs. This alone should motivate men to put in effort.
Even a very low value man will notice a difference, although whether the women who start to notice him are ones who actually meet his own desired attractiveness threshold is a different story.
Lol no there are plenty of guys who receive no IOIs even after « self improvement »
I’ve seen some very unattractive men with unattractive girlfriends or wives, so I don’t really buy the complaints of low value men who claim that they put in a lot of effort and still don’t receive attention from women.
[–]Specialist-Action-331 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
The average man who puts in some efforts has a 20% chance success rate rather than a 0% chance
[–]szclimber1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I don't know about top 20% but I agree with the concept of self improvement. All we can do in life is make the best of it and hope it all works out. Their are no guarantees and sometimes our best is not enough but we still need to try.
[–]Brilliant-Hornet19161 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
You need to be in a certain bracket genetically to have a chance of making it to the top 20%.
This idea that average or below average guys aren't in the top 20% because they're fat is nonsense. You need a decent foundation to work with.
If you walk into a nightclub this weekend there will be no fat guys there, the guys will all be dressed very similar and have the same fuckboy haircut. However a small % of the men in there will be getting the majority of the physical attraction - the guys with good looking faces, height, broad frame, popular ethnicity, full head of hair.
If you're in the bottom ~40% genetically I don't think you're making it into the top 20% of looks unless you go to extreme lengths in terms of cosmetic improvements.
The closer you are to the top 20% genetically then the higher the chance you have of breaking into that top 20%.
Luckily you don't actually need to be top 20% to get interest from a woman.
[–]NotTheBestMoment1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Having full facial hair in America is not possible for most people
[–]xClanWarsCommunity1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
If average man is willing to put some efforts they can become the top 20%
It depends on what factors are making you average/below average, and whether or not they're fixable or not.
For instance, a man who's 6 ft tall and naturally broad shouldered but 100 pounds overweight, would probably be able to fix his attraction issue, because the thing that is making him undesirable (his weight) is fixable. If he lost weight and got fit, because of his height and naturally broad shoulder frame, now he would be considered fairly good looking.
On the other hand, a 4 ft 11 low functioning autistic man, will never reach the top 20% because what makes him romantically/sexually undesirable (his height and disability) are factors outside of his control. Can be find love? Sure. But he's never going to be as successful as a really good looking guy, or maybe even a normal guy.
[–]_feedback_blasting_1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
man who improved a lot by losing 30 pounds, becoming lean and muscular, always keep my facial hair clean shaven, fitting cloth
This. I feel men don't have the right to complain until and unless they've reached this state.
For women, there is a switch that goes off. It's binary. It's yes or no. Once you reach that stage where you're lean enough to show off your cheekbones, your jaw and chin AND you're also fit/tone AND you're dressed/stylish.... you will have absolutely no trouble attracting women
[–]keeperoflosttime2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Some guys will never have visible cheekbones no matter how lean they get
[–]Urbantexasguy1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Believe it or not, some of us men are still motivated by things OTHER than women. I like being in shape, for its own sake. I like nice cars, nice clothes, a nice house, decent furniture, and cool friends, for their own sakes, even if they get me no women.
If they get me women, that’s a bonus. I’m pretty sure that’s how it’s supposed to work.
[–]bison55951 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Simply saying just go meet people is feel good nonsense dating advice. It makes it appear as if approaching women is that easy. It’s a skill that requires strategy and proper tactics. If you aren’t a natural, you have find somebody who can teach you. Just simply going up and talking is wasting time
[–]goochiegg1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I'm 145 lbs and still struggle
[–]ZoeLevinxoxo0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Average men? Yes
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