Why StrongLifts over GreySkull for beginners?

FixYourselfFirst · 2018-10-17T23:39:41+00:00

The best routine is the one you can stick to consistently.

The target audience here is married men, likely overweight and out of shape. Half of them will never visit the gym. Many will quit the gym in the first month. Simple and structured is better here.

IMO, SL5x5 is just a little simpler, with only two different 'days' and a free app for tracking. I do agree that the deloading plan is bad. I'd rather switch to an intermediate program sooner than SL5x5 recommends. GSLP fixes some of the issues with the deloading. AMRAP in GSLP is objectively better. I'm not convinced the increased complexity of GSLP is worth it.

Note that /fitness wiki has a good entry on what is wrong with SL5x5. Most of the issues don't apply if you do SL for only 3-6 months.

johneyapocalypse · 2018-10-18T00:05:12+00:00

I'm traveling and only have a minute but I ran across a couple new articles that talked about training to failure. They studied both (1) strength and (2) muscle volume, and found no difference - across three different studies - between training to failure and quitting "while you still had a few in the tank."

In other words, whether you stopped at failure or not didn't actually matter.

While not necessarily specific to your question these studies are applicable considering the difference between the two programs.

I've been lifting for ages - a long ass-time - and have a solid foundation. I agree with what dude below said about giving newbies a game plan.

Personally, I'm not a fan of strong lifts. I lift for aesthetics, not strength, though over the years - through sheer repetition - I've become strong.

Willkuer_ · 2018-10-17T22:47:30+00:00

SL makes you focus on only a few exercises and aims for strength increase - which you need as a newbie. It is sufficiently short to not skip it because of sudden realization that going to the gym now would totally kill your time plan. It creates very clear goals which you accomplish if you stick to the program.

I started with body weight and basically lost some months because everything I learned was how to properly do push up variations. Then I did SL and achieved some goals but somehow did not advance. Recently switched to some split workout after consulting a trainer and see further improvements but now I am lifting also more volume (if you want to lift more - lift more) but each muscle group less often per week.

I think investing time into SL was a good decision. Bodyweight was a poor one. Neither will lead me to where I am going to be.

Reach180 · 2018-10-18T01:23:43+00:00

Doesnt matter dude. Pick something simple and do it consistently.

5x5 is simple. Its 'good enough'. 'Good enough' is all you need.

As long as you are doing the main compound lifts, and sticking in the 5ish rep range @ 65-85 %, you'll get stronger. The program that keeps you interested is best.

mitch2you80 · 2018-10-18T00:00:55+00:00

Biggest appeal to SL is the free app and the simplicity. Greyskull or 5/3/1 for beginners would give a more balanced routine. The "every day is leg day" of SL is one of it's main criticisms

screechhater · 2018-10-18T04:21:07+00:00

Makes no difference.

Form is key even using machines.

Pushing like hell is where the results come from.

mindfulbutgutless · 2018-10-17T23:20:23+00:00

You should definitely check out body by Jake. Perfect for beginners.

https://youtu.be/KYuT13tMC-E

RedPill-BlackLotus · 2018-10-17T21:50:34+00:00

Because beginners need structure and direction. Thoes are solid programs well established.

Reading comprehension failure here. My bad.

BryanW65 · 2018-10-18T12:55:59+00:00

Starting Strength is better for beginners than Stronglifts. Difference is 3 sets vs. 5 sets. It might not seem like much, but as a novice 3 sets of 5 is sufficient to cause the stress, recovery, adaptation cycle. So why waste your time doing an extra 2 sets, especially if you are old and sensitive to (excessive) volume?

Once you reach the end of your novice progression, then you need to move to intermediate programming like the Texas Method, 5/3/1, HLM, etc. I recommend Practical Programming for strength training if you are looking for intermediate programming ideas.

hack3ge · 2018-10-18T13:45:28+00:00

Here's my take based on my experience with both.

I did 5x5 first and definitely gained strength but then I started to hit plateaus where I would reset and then only get back up to the point I was at prior to failure. I also wasn't seeing as much mass gain as I would have liked - it was there no doubt but I still felt like I was leaving something on the table.

I was researching intermediate programs when I came across GSLP and I figured why not give it a try for a few months. My results on GSLP have been better than I could have hoped - bench is up 40 lbs, deadlifts up 80 (I hadn't stalled here yet), row is up 30 lbs, ohp is up 20 lbs. I'm visibly thicker to the point where guys who were calling me ripped before (was 10% BF, 5'8", 155lbs - which /u/rian_stone told me was small and clearly he was right) are now asking how I got so huge so fast (probably around 12-13% BF & 170 lbs). My diet did change as I upped my calories so YMMV and some of the gains might purely be from eating more.

I personally can't argue with the results but I have a theory on why this program worked well for me. I seem to have gotten a ton out of the AMRAP portion so when I reset after a failure my AMRAPs are in like the 10-15 rep range and then slowly scale down as weight increases but those extra reps seem to make the heavier weights feel way lighter in a way that a normal 5x5 program doesn't work. Also, I seem to recover quicker and don't feel as lethargic when I do BJJ or muy thai in the evenings that I lift.

Also for those saying its easier with an app - you can download a program called "Personal Training Coach" and GSLP is one of the programs it supports - works just like 5x5 app.

JDRoedell · 2018-10-17T22:08:50+00:00

I’ve never done greysSkull but I’ve heard it’s a LOT of volume and takes a long time in the gym each session. May be too much for a new guy. I’m doing PHUL now and like it.

ParaXilo · 2018-10-18T01:19:06+00:00

Personally liking leangains reverse pyramid training. Quick and short. Planning to do it 3-4 times per week for at least 6 months.

I liked SL and GS as well though.

bogeyd6 · 2018-10-18T02:21:57+00:00

SL5x5 is more of a set a personal maximum every time for months on end. Success builds upon success. When you leave the gym and you can walk back into the gym a day later makes a big difference. You quickly outgrow it, but most men who come here look for the easy way out.

UnlimitedEgo · 2018-10-18T03:11:11+00:00

I think Stronglifts is killing by back. I'm doing a modified bent over row so it's not going from the floor. My squat form I felt was good - but lately I've been wondering.

mattizie · 2018-10-18T06:19:37+00:00

I've stuck with 5x5 but added curls and triceps extensions to better target arms.

What's great about it is that its a lot of bang for your buck, and especially when you're just starting, you can be in and out of the gym within 30 minutes.

LeanFatso · 2018-10-18T07:26:59+00:00

Start with it to get your ass on the gym. It's easy to track and execute.

After you get used to the gym and it becomes a real part of your life you change to something more focused on what you want (Strength/Resistance, Aesthetics, etc).

I did SL for 7-8 months and got really bored with it, tried another program, didn't like and now started with nSuns (which I have been enjoying a lot).

jacksarmy · 2018-10-18T08:13:43+00:00

/r/fitness stopped advising stronglifts and Greyskull with the frequency method should give you a better upper body, which will give a sexier look

hystericalbonding · 2018-10-18T11:09:02+00:00

AMRAP

It depends on ability to learn form, and ability to feel when form is starting to break down.

People who are new in the gym are mostly there to learn form. That requires submaximal reps. Novices are also frequently poor judges of how many reps they are from technical failure. Once they've learned the lifts and have the ability to feel the difference between form breakdown and just working hard, then AMRAP is great. That may take a few weeks, or someone may forever push themselves beyond technical failure and get into trouble.

Hard core red pill guys may prefer Greyskull because the author is very masculine, buys in to NLP and other concepts espoused in PUA, and doesn't act like a pussy. But if that's what you're aiming for, then 5/3/1 for beginners may be even better.

Volume is an issue more in the intermediate stage.

gameoflibidos · 2018-10-18T13:49:03+00:00

agree with what most everyone is saying here... just want to add that both StrongLifts and GreySkull are powerlifting routines.

Look up youtube videos of olympic powerlifters. Specifically Lasha Talakhadze , who holds several powerlifting world records. His body type I'm pretty sure is not your goal. So make sure to make a plan going forward that includes powerlifts but you also need to alternate with high rep workouts that are specifically for hypertrophy. (Which is intended specifically to make muscles larger) Powerlifting will make your muscles stronger and denser but won't necessarily grow them a ton.

ReddJive · 2018-10-18T16:30:37+00:00

I did SL at the start. I was a powerlifter in my younger days though. My gains were pretty quick as the body never really forgets.

I stayed on it for a long long time. Last summer I was doing SL every day. Yeah yeah yeah I know but it worked for me. I stayed on SL longer than most but the gains were still coming. I switched to Madcow just because, but soon I hit the 400 barrier i always hit. Injury came up as history showed. I always got hurt around the 400-450 range. Always.

That's when I got a coach and put my training in his hands. In 8 months I am nearing 600 pound range with the 3 major lifts, with a good shot at it by February. We will see. HIs workout program is destroying me. BUT No injuries.

As said earlier. Consistency and diet. Overall though know your body. Some don't respond to SL and find it difficult. Others hate the tediousness of it.

Finding a good trainer who's body looks like the one you want and has hit the goals you want is also key I think. He/she will know exactly how to train your body to get there.

Title	Why StrongLifts over GreySkull for beginners?
Author	weakandsensitive
Upvotes	18
Comments	60
Date	October 17, 2018 9:31 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/askMRP
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/9p2v4j/why_stronglifts_over_greyskull_for_beginners/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/askMRP/why-stronglifts-over-greyskull-for-beginners.203884 https://theredarchive.com/post/203884