It’s more logical for a man to take a woman’s last name upon marriage

idiotincharge · 2020-08-29T14:53:30+00:00

The point of the name change is to signify the woman leaving her father's house and becoming a part of her husband's house. Since women now are all married to the government instead I suggest all women take the last name uncle sam.

Kaisha001 · 2020-08-29T15:13:26+00:00

However, since we have moved past sexist origins

While I agree with your premise the reason kids/wives took their husbands name had nothing to do with sexism and everything to do with practicality.

Last names were initially just your tribe/group/clan. You would be 'George of the MacGregor clan' or 'Sue of the Wallace clan'. When a woman married into a tribe/group/clan (as was often the case) she took the name of the clan, and the children would just get it as well. As people settled into cities and population densities became higher, that didn't work. So you were named after your profession (Tanner, Baker, Smith, Taylor, etc...), again nothing to do with sexism and everything to do with practicality. As cities became even larger you now had surnames like Johnson (son of John) and similar.

Also a man was legally responsible for the conduct of his family. So if a child wasn't being taken care of (lacked food, shelter, clothing, was running around homeless) the child's last name would be used to determine who was responsible.

In modern day it doesn't really matter, since we're just a number in a computer database anyways.

sparklingscott · 2020-08-29T15:53:06+00:00

More logical to abolish marriage.

Lunatic_Jiggles · 2020-08-29T16:17:40+00:00

Seems to me you are just outlining other problems that need solving.

Your first point holds some water, but I don’t think that’s reason enough to make the decision by yourself unless you can’t figure out who the father is or he jus didn’t want to be involved.

Giving custody to mothers primarily bc they are mothers is sexist and causes harm to the child. It’s rare that the father doesn’t want at least joint custody. It’s his child too and the child most certainly wants to spend time with him.

If you’re married and there’s even a chance that child isn’t your husband’s, you have betrayed your husband and child. Why should this selfish af behavior be considered for anything? If you’re single then you can find out who the father is before or name the baby whatever you want anyways. Although you should talk it over with the father and come to an agreement bc it’s his child too.

The issue here is you are trying to solve a problem that you think is sexist, with solutions that still seem sexist.

Reisiluu · 2020-08-29T17:32:22+00:00

The last name is not your name, it's your family's name. It becomes a question of which family you and your future children belong to. Your parents, his parents, both or neither?

it makes sense to name the child after the person who is certain to be the parent

I feel the exact opposite makes more sense. Giving your child your husband's name is a public admission that he is the father, whether biological or adopted.

the_purring_jew · 2020-08-29T15:16:51+00:00

go ahead and do it that way then, who cares

cloudydays84 · 2020-08-29T14:53:19+00:00

Divorce rates are high in developed countries, and around 90% of mothers will have primary custody of their children. This creates the problem of leaving women with the choice of either keeping their ex’s last name or having a different last name to their children, creating day to day issues. For example, medical care and school registration. On the other hand, because 90% of divorced men do not have primary custody, changing their name back wouldn’t cause them encounter these issues nearly as much.

Do whatever you want with this, most people that think this will be a problem just keep their own names. So I'd say this would be a reason for both parties just keeping their own names rather than one taking another.

Mothers create a couples child. They suffer the burden or sacrificing bodily comfort, risking their health and putting their independence on hold for 9 months only to endure significant pain to birth each child. That I think should come with the honour of having their children named after them.

Isn't that what given names are for and not surnames?

it makes sense to name the child after the person who is certain to be the parent. There are no questions or surprises as to who the genetic mother is.

I could make a case for the exact opposite. The reason you give a child the surname of the father is recognition to the fact that he is their parent. Like you said mothers have no reason to assume they aren't the parent of the child they gave birth to, their maternal lineage is known and recognized inherently.

tigercallous · 2020-08-29T15:52:52+00:00

•it makes sense to name the child after the person who is certain to be the parent. There are no questions or surprises as to who the genetic mother is.

Related: he shouldn't consider it his kid (married or not) til he gets a paternity test done

Anyway these sound like good reasons for the kid to have the man's last name so as to encourage feeling invested in the kid

Braindead_Nihilist · 2020-08-29T17:28:23+00:00

However, since we have moved past sexist origins

That's an incredibly disingenuous point to sneak into your premise. Most significant laws, actions, traditions, and cultural norms for most of history were about survival and continuation of the species. Even life in the west didn't improve to the point that sexism was the primary concern of the people at large I'd argue until the 20th century.

Mothers create a couples child. They suffer the burden or sacrificing bodily comfort, risking their health and putting their independence on hold for 9 months only to endure significant pain to birth each child. That I think should come with the honour of having their children named after them.

Children are de facto given the surname of the mother in the west. It so happens that when women marry they generally take the last name of their husband. This is already true, so why are you bringing it up?

Divorce rates are high in developed countries, and around 90% of mothers will have primary custody of their children. This creates the problem of leaving women with the choice of either keeping their ex’s last name or having a different last name to their children, creating day to day issues. For example, medical care and school registration. On the other hand, because 90% of divorced men do not have primary custody, changing their name back wouldn’t cause them encounter these issues nearly as much.

I'm going to hit the two areas you talked about. The medical records a doctor has access to are dependent upon those which you provide. Providing a birth certificate to a primary care physician one time will clear up any and all problems surrounding who the parents are. If you're concerned about specialist visits, ask that a birth abstract be attached when records are sent to them. Emergency care won't be an issue since they treat first and ask questions later. School registration can again be cleared with a simple paper. You'll get papers stating you're the primary custodial parent once awarded that in court. This is the only argument that holds some weight out of the three but, you're making mountains out of molehills.

it makes sense to name the child after the person who is certain to be the parent. There are no questions or surprises as to who the genetic mother is.

You know that doesn't paint women in a very good light. Like the argument boils down to "women can cheat on their husbands, so best to just not have them change surnames." Having children with the last name of the father keeps them invested in the family. If you're questioning your paternity, it makes sense. Why raise a child that isn't yours? Isn't that what the actual father is for?

Nodoxxintoxin · 2020-08-29T23:31:45+00:00

it makes sense to name the child after the person who is certain to be the parent. There are no questions or surprises as to who the genetic mother is.

The exact opposite is why the fathers name is important. Yes, everyone already knows who mom is. Giving a kid the fathers name acknowledges paternity.

CosmicBioHazard · 2020-08-29T14:46:41+00:00

I think we should just do what some cultures do; neither party in a marriage takes the others’ last name, but the kids take their last name from one of them

it makes sense to name the child after the person who is certain to be the parent. There are no questions or surprises as to who the genetic mother is.

Here’s an idea. The fathers last name should be assigned to the child only after a DNA test has proven its his. Then we can shame women who refuse

leftwingrightwingall · 2020-08-29T14:54:44+00:00

No, you should read how the Y chromosome works for human beings. It's completely, 100% more logical to take the father's name.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y_chromosome

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fearsclave · 2020-08-29T14:33:58+00:00

People should be free to express their identity however they want.

Kantro7 · 2020-08-29T15:36:51+00:00

Why can’t people just keep their last names and give kids random last names lol

ninetiesbaby16 · 2020-08-29T16:31:48+00:00

In Finland I’m pretty sure when a couple gets married they both change their surnames to a new one they made up together. That way parents and children all have the same last name and no one parent has to sacrifice their name in favour of the other’s. Maybe we should do that?

BROWN-TOILET-PAPER · 2020-08-29T17:29:20+00:00

It’s more logical for a man to take a woman’s last name upon marriage

It's more logical to have no name change for anyone, which happens often now.

If you want to argue the kid should have the mother's last name, I'd say that makes sense.

Divorce rates are high in developed countries

This is the real problem here, not name changes. At least 'sexist origins' (past) had intact families. Our non (less) sexist present has led to masses of broken homes and broken people. (Which is the intent of leftist politics of course. To destroy and create state dependency upon that which they've destroyed, which promises of 'freedom' and hedonistic pleasures. Mission accomplished.)

NephilimXXXX · 2020-08-29T20:28:23+00:00

Your title conflicts with your actual argument. Your title is "it's more logical for a man to take a woman's last name upon marriage", but then your arguments are about the kids taking the last name of their mother rather than father.

Willow-girl · 2020-08-29T20:35:56+00:00

•it makes sense to name the child after the person who is certain to be the parent. There are no questions or surprises as to who the genetic mother is.

Mama's baby, Daddy's maybe!

yeezywusgood · 2020-08-30T01:35:41+00:00

Marriage is a sacrament, keep your liberal feminist crap out of it. The traditional way of doing things is for the woman to take the mans surname. The logic behind it is the typical dynamic of such relationship, where the man is the dominant patriarchal leader of the household.

md8716 · 2020-08-30T03:19:59+00:00

Most tradition is rooted in practicality.

The practical aspect of a wife and child taking a man's name is to show a unified front and telegraph the legitimacy of a man's leadership to others.

This is important to a man who has to negotiate or assert himself in competition with other men that influence where he goes in life. The appearance of strength and legitimacy matter.

crystalmerchant · 2020-08-30T05:47:53+00:00

My wife and I agreed to name our son with my wife's last name as his middle name and my last name as his last name, and our daughter with my last name as her middle name and my wife's last name as her last name.

It's a little awkward but we feel it's the least awkward way for us to approach new norms. It's worked so far

beyond98 · 2020-08-29T15:55:42+00:00

Thanks God in my country women keep their last names and the sons take the first last name of both parents

SaBahRub · 2020-08-29T16:40:28+00:00

China has a billion people. Both parents keep their original names, and things are going fine reproductively. Hence the billion people

darksoldierk · 2020-08-29T17:19:58+00:00

Yeah but the fact is, fathers are expected to give up rights regarding abortion ,and while mother suffer for 9 months, fathers, especially ones that didn't get to choose to abort, suffer for 18 years due to legal requirements for them to pay for the child. In essence, a woman is sufferring for 9 months, then 18 years, but she had the choice to abort, the father doesn't get that choice, and therefore, in reality, it's men who are expected to, and who actually, suffer more because they are FORCED to sacrifice, at a minimum, their money for 18 years for a kid that, unlike the mother, they couldn't choose to abort, and avoid said suffering.

In regards to your second point, despite the fact that the divorce rates are so high, men are still being told that the children are THEIRS, and because of that, they are still expected to support the child despite divorce. The fact is, the name belongs to the child, and decisions relating to the child should be made by both the mother and the father, not just the mother. The mother can't and shouldn't be able to just chnage the child's name without the father's consent. Custody is irrelevant to the discussion because it isn't about where the child lives, it's about who the child belongs to. If do not want the child to take on the father's name, then that is one of the factors that supprot the idea that the man is no longer the father of the child, and therefore, should not pay child support or be forced to invest a second of his time for that child.

in regards to you third point, sure, but if that's the way it is, then you are better off implementing mandatory paternity testing. If we are going to make the assumption that every child could possibly not be the father's child and therefore, no child should take the father's name, then that assumption has to extend to child support. The assumption of child support is that the fathers listed on the birth certificate are the biological fathers, regardless of the possibility of them not actually being the biological fathers. If you make an assumption, then that assumption has to stand in every situation, you can't use it when it benefits you, then ignore it when it doesn't.

Joey_Lopez · 2020-08-29T15:53:33+00:00

No what would be the point of men even having children if they don't carry their name? It's the men that build and create. Women are just supporting characters.

wtknight · 2020-08-29T17:52:00+00:00

I think that a man taking his wife's last name is just as illogical as her taking his. What probably makes the most sense is giving children both of their parent's last names (whether as a middle/last name thing or as a hyphenated last name). They can decide for themselves whether to use the husband's or wife's last names for the child if they decide not to use a hyphenated last name, and then the children can make a choice themselves which last name to use when they are no longer minors. If a couple gets divorced, then the person with custody can choose to change the children's last name if they currently have their spouse's last name.

Title	It’s more logical for a man to take a woman’s last name upon marriage
Author	tigercallous
Upvotes	0
Comments	84
Date	August 29, 2020 2:31 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/iitbok/its_more_logical_for_a_man_to_take_a_womans_last/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/its-more-logical-for-a-man-to-take-a-womans-last.212996 https://theredarchive.com/post/212996

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