Why do a lot of the top Red Pillers hate Jordan Peterson?

[deleted] · 2018-10-19T14:05:19+00:00

He's pushing for Men to adhere to a social order/social contract that no longer exists. TRP's/MGTOW feel that in our culture, a Man trying to settle down with a Wife with astronomical divorce rates and rampant infidelity is just a bad deal.

NOTSM · 2018-10-19T14:08:08+00:00

Your fourth point is closest to the truth.

He agrees with redpillers about most issues regarding dating and social issues. However his proposed solutions run counter to the ones proposed by trp. He seems to think men should step up, be good men and try to “fix” a society that’s turned it’s back on them. Trp on the other hand is all about “enjoying the decline” and sees Peterson’s proposed solutions as pathetic, why sacrifice yourself for others when they wouldn’t do the same for you

Mr_Smoogs · 2018-10-19T14:22:00+00:00

There seems to be two camps. One that swears TRP has been completely taken over be brown people learning to compete in the western SMP, and the other that claims TRP is alt-right white nationalists. It seems to me that these things are mutually exclusive. I suppose you can be a self-hating minority though.

That being said, it's because JBP holds a very strong pro-marriage, sex-negative position. He believes sex matters very much, which is antithetical to the sex-positive message of "sex doesn't matter," "sex is no big deal" crowd.

TRPillers either don't care because they're raging nihilists

Terpers are not raging nihilists. A nihilist would never advise you to self-improve, because improvement is pointless if nothing matters.

they want more radical solutions than what JBP is promoting.

Sure. They want to spin plates, not get married. To TRP, marriage is gynocentric and serves the female imperative. People like JBP promote the idea that just because you can be Chad, doesn't mean you should. Individually, it may not matter if you do it safely. But as a society, it's ultimately destructive to swing your dick through life leaving a wake of wallowing single mothers. Something that supports and serves the female imperative is antithetical to TRP.

I don't suspect that there will ever be a mainstream outspoken person who will advocate spinning plates. Mainstream conservatives typically advocate marriage (not that I think JBP is one of them).

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2018-10-19T14:37:07+00:00

he has removed TRPs youngest cohort target audience. TRPs nihilism is pure gen x, it couldnt last. people want hope and positivity

Kwangira · 2018-10-19T14:08:49+00:00

Anyone who's a hedonistic and opportunistic degenerate will definitely disagree with JP on pretty much everything, not to say that the man is always right but he's made valid points.

TheGreasyPole · 2018-10-19T16:21:52+00:00

Well, put me down as another RPM who likes JP.

Like most I disagree on points, but my disagreement is almost always with JPs attributions as to the source of the trends in human nature he discusses. I’m far more willing than he is to put this down to genetic inheritance, and he seems to want to “Jesus Smuggle” religion in here.

He latest series of videos with Sam Harris was excellent, and one the only occasion I think his debate opponent had the better points. Although this could just be because Sam Harris (whilst he agrees with him a lot elsewhere) seems to hold largely the same line I do on the religious attribution.

Anyway... while I think there are differences in outlook between RP and JP that could explain the animus of the ECs personally I’ll put this down to 3) (with only a bit of 1 and 4 thrown in).

I think they don’t like the fact that he’s been extremely successful at doing what they wished in their wildest dreams they could do (gain a big internet following, lead young men, and monetise the whole affair into huge bucks[although JPs bucks are going to charitable projects rather than his pockets I understand, whilst the ECs want to pocket it]). He’s also loosened the grip they have on the guys they advise, they have an alternative in some respects now.

Basically, he sucked all the oxygen out of what they were hoping was “their room”, and probably also showed them along the way that they wernt at the quality/intellectual standard required to properly monetise “advice to young men”.

That’s my gut feel anyway.

They do disagree on stuff, but they also agree far more. I get the feeling that they’d love him if he was a very fringe figure.... he’d be “one of their guys”... but as he got successful that rubbed their own niche status in their faces in a way they didn’t like much.

GayLubeOil · 2018-10-19T21:26:48+00:00

Jordan Peterson doesn't understand postmodernism and frequently conflates it with the identitarian left. He's also friends with Stephen Hicks who is an academic fraud

Basically Peterson has a wierd fetish for marxism fills his room with Marxist fetish items and projects Marxism onto ideological movements like postmodernism who were censored by Communist governments.

Let's put ideological differences aside her. Look at it from my perspective. Imagine you ran a community of young men and some CuckCervative started publishing information that was objectively wrong. He confuses the fuck out of your confused retards and then you have to spend months unconfusing the retards.

There's a shit ton of leftist SJW postgraduates here who understand the ideological destinations between different leftist movements, and how Lobsterman butchers those distinctions.

Pope_Lucious · 2018-10-19T14:08:56+00:00

Dude’s a genius.

Where are these “red pillers hating on Jordan Peterson”?

TheBookOfSeil · 2018-10-19T18:36:02+00:00

Probably because he’s taking all of their potential publicity and that’s what is going to get him all of the puss.

dicklord_airplane · 2018-10-19T22:13:18+00:00

I dont agree with tradcons. I moved away from Texas to hippieland for a reason.

reluctantly_red · 2018-10-19T14:12:13+00:00

I'm not saying I agree with all this. I'm saying some top "red pillers" (Vox Day, Adam Piggott) don't like JBP because:

--he's politically liberal and agrees with a lot of feminism's tenets

--he's a traditionalist who wants men to marry and reproduce

----he's squishy and wishy washy and has taken inconsistent positions on a lot of things. He can't decide whether he's a political liberal and feminism is good; or he's a traditionalist and wants men to get married, shackle themselves to a woman, and start serving her.

--he's completely and totally blue pill when it comes to women and how to relate to them one on one. He's known his wife since he was 8 years old and has in the past made a point of how he pursued her relentlessly and wore down her resistance and supplicated to her and pedestalized her, and suggested all these are good things. These are exactly the things men are told not to do with women. These are exactly the things that have brought men so much frustration and failure.

Also, almost no man in the world marries someone he's known since third grade, so a suggestion by example that this is a good way to get a woman is unrealistic at best and horrible strategy/tactics at worst.

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Pope_Lucious · 2018-10-19T14:22:27+00:00

A big problem with Jordan Peterson in my opinion is that he plays on the fence a lot. He's a self-describe "anti-ideologue", and he doesn't like nationalism or patriotism or anything.

He's a libertarian with some self-improvement advice. I don't know if I'm a "Red Piller", but I disagree with him on that, and I doubt most RP'ers agree with him on that either.

LowCreddit · 2018-10-19T20:43:48+00:00

All four of what you mentioned. His opinion that men "need to man up" sets him against a lot of the communities including the MRAs.

Million-Suns · 2018-10-20T03:43:09+00:00

Jordan Peterson revealed his true blue pilled af colors when he labeled MGTOWs as pathetic weasels.

Frankly, he clearly wants men back into the plantation, regardless of how bad the deal is for them.

ifeelfuckingterrible · 2018-10-20T10:02:32+00:00

What do you think alt-right even is? It is an alternative to traditional conservatism, the kind that Peterson endorses.

Scatre · 2018-10-20T11:27:24+00:00

There's no such thing as "top Red Pillers" unless you're specifically talking about people that post crap in the subreddit. Which, I guess you are. They aren't exactly the sharpest tools in the shed. However, I lean rp and hate JBP as well.

A lot of Red Pillers are raging nihilists, JBP is against nihilism.

What makes you think Red Pillers are nihilists?

JBP is not right-wing enough for a lot of the top Red Pillers. (no matter how much people deny it, TRP has obvious connections to the alt-right, Dark Enlightenment and other far-right groups. Even GLO used to be a mod for the /r/altright and Heartiste Chateau is a white nationalist blog. Everyone knows they have obvious links to these groups, so I don't care if people here deny it.)

I don't really care about who posted what and where. GLO is just some bozo trying to peddle t-shirts. I got muted from the sub for disagreeing with him once. You claim "JBP is not right-wing enough", could you elaborate? I guess we have different definitions of right and left, but JBP seems much more right wing to me.

He's more successful than they will ever be and his message appeals more to people than their "be a raging nihilist and an asshole" message, so they're jealous of him.

lol you act like there's some kind of power struggle between TRP mods and JBP. These aren't religions.

He's pro-marriage. TRPillers are against marriage while simultaneously believing that people not getting married will at the very least lead to the destruction of civilization.

Lots of TRPers aren't against marriage (which is silly IMO). And TRPer's simply aren't concerned with what you consider "society".

I don't even like JBP but it's very interesting that the top RPillers seem triggered by him.

Because he pushes tradcon BP beliefs constantly? He claims life is about giving up your freedoms and suffering in order to push society various ways. In the case of sex and marriage, he blames all his perceived societal problems on "weak men" who need to man up and become a slave to their wives and the state. Not to mention, he incoherently babbles flowery language that only appeals to insecure people who treat him like a god.

Hes BP to the core. Saying that it's some kind of fight between nihilism and order is silly. TRP aren't nihilists and JBP just peddles advice that would have been great back in the 1950's; it's completely out of touch.

abaxeron · 2018-10-19T18:59:04+00:00

4)He's pro-marriage. TRPillers are against marriage while simultaneously believing that people not getting married will at the very least lead to the destruction of civilization.

Equivocation. JBP is pro-marriage within its current condition, while TRPers understand that it lacks the crucial element to function properly, which is male authority (egalitarian and female-lead relationships either don't last or don't procreate; within the scope covering more than a couple generations, they are irrelevant). And lack of this crucial element will lead to the destruction of civilization, not lack of marriage licenses issued - they're irrelevant if they don't back up the marriage model that is proven for millenia to actually work and get things done.

3)He's more successful than they will ever be

"Jesus rose from the dead, and what have you accomplished? Checkmate, atheists!" This is outright cheap. Around 80 percent of TRP doctrine teaches NOT to get angry at people for their success.

2)JBP is not right-wing enough

He's a gynocentrist; "wingness" is very secondary to this.

1)A lot of Red Pillers are raging nihilists, JBP is against nihilism.

There are more raging nihilists among Blues than among Reds; it's just that gynocentric glasses don't allow us to see their "Protect the Punani no matter the cost!" as a form of raging nihilism.

firstpitchthrow · 2018-10-20T07:03:26+00:00

Why I don't like him: he's a science denialist.

In the modern world, anyone who is a TradeCon and who espouses views about "traditional marriage" and "traditional monogamy" is wrong. The environment of our world has changed; human evolution is currently searching for a new optimal value. Thousands of years ago, changes in the environment lead human beings to switch from harem model to monogamy. It was not a clean transition, there were a lot of bumps in the road, and there were centuries of confusion over which model would win out in the end. All ancient texts of any antiquity show this struggle in progress, including the holy bible.

We are similarly in an area where environmental changes are also forcing human beings towards a new paradigm of mate selection. Those who favor monogamy are like the biblical patriarchs desperately clinging to their harem of wives while the world was changing towards monogamy. Our world is in the process of shifting towards something else, traditional monogamy, marriage and the nuclear family are no longer evolutionarily competitive options. To deny this is to deny that human beings evolve in the same way that all other creatures on this planet evolve; it is to deny science.

Monogamy is still only practical in those parts of our world that are poor enough to not have caught up with modernity yet. There is a reason why harem model lost out to monogamy thousands of years ago: it was simply possible to build more complex civilizations with monogamy, so harem model got out-competed. The same thing is happening today; monogamy has a hard cap on how complex a civilization can be built with it, that's why monogamy is no longer competitive in wealthier, technologically advanced civilizations.

Jordan Peterson, and other tradcons like him, are literally trying to hold back human evolution. Evolution is neither good nor bad, it is neither moral nor immoral. People who don't marry and don't practice monogamy but who evolve towards something else are not bad people; they are simply reacting to the rewards of the changing environment, no different than a species of birds evolving to occupy a particular niche in nature. The biggest problem I have with the Jordan Petersons of this world is that they attempt to apply a moral framework to something that is not a moral question and never has been. They do not see clearly when they speak of the "good" of civilization being in the family, that "good" is only optimal under a specific set of environmental circumstances. Those circumstances persisted for thousands of years, but they are not persistent anymore.

blackedoutfast · 2018-10-19T16:47:56+00:00

he is a tradcuck and he sounds like kermit the frog.

GrandpaTheBand · 2018-10-19T19:05:12+00:00

Just wanted to chime in quick. JP wasn't saying he's in favor of forced marriage. He was asked what's a way to solve the problem and he gave an answer. He's not advocating it, just answering the questions. Same with the women and makeup question. He was answering a question about a possible solution not one he wants.

Title	Why do a lot of the top Red Pillers hate Jordan Peterson?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	15
Comments	171
Date	October 19, 2018 2:01 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/9pk36y/why_do_a_lot_of_the_top_red_pillers_hate_jordan/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-do-a-lot-of-the-top-red-pillers-hate-jordan.259374 https://theredarchive.com/post/259374

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