Women: What are your honest impressions of TRP?

appencapn · 2016-01-26T03:43:34+00:00

I am curious about some of their theories. Hypergamy I can kind of see it played out in the wild although I'm not sure if its as widespread or as flagrant as TRP presents. Women liking dominant males is also an interesting theory.

I think it would be nice if they actually committed to helping more young men find confidence and develop self discipline and stop being walked over rather than feeding their bitterness and anger at women. TRP sells itself as self help but the main sub and many of the blogs are so overwhelmed by anger stage fuck all women, I hate them that many guys who are already fucking lazy get caught up in women suck rather than let me get my shit together for myself.

EmpressofMars · 2016-01-26T03:51:52+00:00

Self improvement stuff: Good! Be confident! Make yourself into someone you're proud of! Do things that make you feel good without hurting anyone else!

Everything else: No. Just no.

prettydrunk23 · 2016-01-26T03:40:00+00:00

I think a lot of their concepts work on people of both genders. Borderline abuse tends to work on a subset of people both male and female. The worse you treat these people the more they try to please/impress you. This goes for sexual relationships and friendships.

Doesn't mean it's good advice or something that should be done. Robbing a bank can be an effective way to get money but that doesn't make it good advice.

Also, I think most of the guys that post on there are just socially anxious, awkward dudes who are more comfortable talking about how they think the world works and trying to confirm that the problem isn't them but "others". I think they need to go out, have a few drinks and interact with the world without analyzing it so much. Living in your head (or in this case on trp) will destroy you.

KelIy_C · 2016-01-26T05:23:03+00:00

Core concepts are usually solid and provide interesting perspectives. The actual terpers are mostly gross and stupid

Shaenon · 2016-01-26T21:03:46+00:00

Adolescent edgelords playing at being cartoon supervillains. Two things particularly amuse me:

Every bad thing they accuse women of is something they aspire to themselves. Women are shallow and "hypergamous," but it's okay for them to be obsessed with looks and status. Women are too demanding, but they want to be waited on hand and foot. Women are irrational and have hamsters in their heads, but it's totally rational to swallow any made-up crap on the internet that flatters a cranky misogynist's worldview. And of course they accuse women of acting like teenagers. Acting like an aggrieved, spoiled teen is the ultimate goal of Red Pillin'.
They think they invented being crappy to women. Trust me, guys, we've encountered assholes before. It's not that exciting.

DitaVonCleese · 2016-01-26T12:26:37+00:00

They are those types of insecure douchebags I immediatelly dislike and see right through them. Amused mastery, holding frame blabla - when I read their field reports I always picture how I would react (if I were the girl) and what would I think about their actions and I would most definitely not put up with that shit. But they aim for the weak and then are surprised that they got a weak. I pity the girls.

As for the masculinity, dominance and stuff - I am very submissive but as someone pointed out in another thread - submisivenesss is given, not taken. My boyfriend gets everything he could want from me, even anal. Because, you know, he respects me and respects my opinion and consent and does not play any mind games with me. We communicate and discuss everything. We are partners, not captain and first mate.

lauren_collins · 2016-01-26T03:44:42+00:00

i like how it encourages self improvement, but also recognize that a large minority of trpers are just gross bitter neckbeards. just like i agree with a lot of what feminism has to say, but think most feminists need to chillax with the microaggression stuff.

the overly aggressive / dogmatic ones don't really matter since a - they might only be venting, not like that in real life, and b - not people you would hang out in the first place. i wouldn't worry about the hygiene of the homeless guy who shits himself because i wouldn't have him in my home, so why worry about the views of a low smv guy you wouldn't talk to in the first place?

i like some of the advice rpw has to offer, specifically things about being less argumentative / easygoing. i think if you want to date a guy who is a point or so higher than you, a less "bitchy" personality can give you the edge over the girl who is more his equal in terms of looks. also putting out quickly helps, although rpw would advice against that.

Interversity · 2016-01-26T03:55:07+00:00

The good stuff can be found elsewhere. The bad stuff attracts the type of men who will take it to a toxic level.

TPCCH · 2016-01-26T04:22:15+00:00

It's Pareto syndrome all the way down, taking what 20% do (if that) and claiming it's what 100% do or would do, on both the male and female sides.

coffeedynamics · 2016-01-26T04:24:00+00:00

I agree with all just about all of it, especially AWALT. I agree with "Women are the most responsible teenagers in the house". I agree that in order for a woman to be attracted to a man sexually he has to have power over her. I think that in our culture women are entitled, lack all agency and responsibility, and continually play the victim. I think that currently men are morally superior to women at least when it comes to relationships.

I don't have a problem with anything TRP says. I don't think they dehumanize women. In fact I think that RP treats women more like humans than BP does. I don't think they are crazy at all.

I got this way because I couldn't understand why BP relationship advice wasn't working. I thought there was something wrong with me. I was embarrassed about my sexuality.

RP answered long standing questions, gave me insight about myself and my relationships, and told me that the way I was feeling wasn't shameful but natural. I realized that the reason I felt powerless was because I lacked agency. Everything makes a lot more sense now. BP will probably still think I'm an oppressed victim or something like that, but I feel freer than I ever have in my life.

Molly_Moll · 2016-01-26T18:22:13+00:00

TRP is for pathetic men who want to set feminism back.

[deleted] · 2016-01-26T10:43:36+00:00

Total cancer.

I feel kinda bad for them, because I know they are bitter young men for whom life is rather unfair.

But I can't sympathize with them when they react to challenges in life by engaging in hatred and self-victimization

Also the right wing politics and lack of morality of TRP also makes me rather sick.

TheChemist158 · 2016-01-26T04:59:34+00:00

Craziness aside, however, what do you really think of the core concepts from an objective standpoint?

What core concepts exactly? If I go along the sidebar and read the material literally, I don't see much merit in it. But then I've been told not to take the sidebar material so literal. Which brings up the question of what interpretation of the material do you want to take? This is an honest question. If you have some particular idea of what the core concepts are, I'd like to work from those. However, the material as taken literally doesn't seem to reflect myself or any woman that I know.

Let's look at a series of 4 articles from the sidebar (women in love, men in love, of love and war, and schedules of mating).

He claims that women cannot love men how they want to be loved, unconditionally. Instead, women love opportunistically, women love based on what the man can provide. Initially, I had some agreement for this. I like to view human interactions as transactions. We have a motive for who we associate with. We, at the very least, hope to gain something from the dealings of other people. Maybe it's something like money or power, but often it's more subtle, social things. You chat with a coworker to feel like you belong there, feel like your feelings are being heard, that you have a friend. You date a woman in hopes of having a companion, sex, feelings of being loved and cared for. You give a homeless some spare money, maybe because you want to feel like you are a good person making a difference, or maybe because you feel bad and are seeking to alleviate some of that pain. Everyone is at least hoping to get something out of everything. But I started to realize that this isn't what they mean when they say this. I've heard many reds claim that men love unconditionally, which seems absurd. Of course men have conditions to their love. They wouldn't love a woman who cheated, a woman who despised them, a woman who didn't share his dreams, and so on. There's a reason why men love who they do, and don't love those that they don't. Conditions, if you will. But then I see sections like this,

There is no rest, there is no respite or reprieve from performing, but so strong is the desire for that unconditional love assurance that men thought it prudent to write it into “traditional” marriage vows – ‘for better or for worse, for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love, cherish, and obey, forsaking all others until death do you part’ – in other words, a pledge of unconditional love in spite of all circumstance. Those vows are a direct plea for insurances against a female hypergamy that would otherwise be unfettered were it not made in the context of being before God and man.

We want to stop being on guard all the time, and have a chance to simply be with someone who can understand our basic humanity without begrudging it. To stop fighting, to stop playing the game, just for a while. We want to, so badly. If we do, we soon are no longer able to.

[After a story of a 4 months unemployed man being kicked out by his wife]

Gone were the idealizations of unconditional love for the sake of love, to be replaced with the tactical, opportunistic concept of female love of his new wife. And, he was grateful for it.

So it seems like their idea of woman's love is that it is conditional on very monetary and tangible things. On his money, security, and health, for example. And for the life of me, I can't think of a single couple where this true. Sure, I've heard horror stories online. But I don't demand my boyfriend give me those things. My mother, though single, has never left a guy for losing these things. Nor has my step mom. My aunt has actually been the breadwinner in her marriage for most of it. So this idea of women needing these things in men, and leaving them if they lose it, isn't something I see in real life.

The inconsistency with my world skyrockets in the last post. The claim is that women are biologically driven to find a provider and a source of good genes, which oftens have to be found in different men. But when it comes to kids, I very rarely women interested in anyone but the "good dad" figure. I'm certainly not interested in anyone but my stable, loyal, chaiste boyfriend. Even the "lower class" people I've seen tend to be based more on passion than good genes. A woman girl (19 years old) I knew had one of those rocky, off and on relationships with a guy. He didn't have in the way prospects, and genetically he wasn't impressive either (a cripple even). But he offered her devotion and love, and she returned it. My mother wanted kids, got them outside of a relationship, and never sought a father figure for us. My stepmom never wanted kids at all. Again, this just isn't something I see in real life.

We get to things like this post, which says things like

Women are irrational and inconsistent, they have a capacity for logic but it is not their modus operandi, that is to say that they must exert effort to be logical as it is not their factory setting. A logical woman is easily baited into becoming emotional; women are easy to compromise. Their decisions are based on their current emotional state rather than the abstraction of logic. It's this proclivity to change so quickly which causes them to act inconsistently and in contradiction.

Women are machiavellian in nature, this means they are comparatively proficient at being manipulative versus the typical male. The evolutionary theoretical basis for this is due to smaller size and inferior musculature women had to learn to use men as tools rather than directly oppose them in a physical conflict (as they would undoubtedly lose in all but very few scenarios) this makes the pronunciation of their strength a propensity to be mentally rather than physically violent. Physical violence is outlawed whereas mental abuse is not, this allows women to get their way without being held accountable by a system of law. The law does not legislate interpersonal morality to this extent. Where a man's instinct is to hit, a woman's is to do a big shit in your mind instead.

Women are hypergamous they feel entitled to a superior mate. You have to be richer than her or at least equally rich, more educated than her or at least equally educated. You need to be better looking than her or at least equal looking, you need to be more popular than she is or at least equally popular. You can offset one area (LMS - looks, money, status) with another, but if you're lower in at least 2 areas just forget it.

Which are things that I similarly don't see. I also don't see these things reflected in what studies I've read, though reds seem very proficient at explaining away studies they don't like (women lie, except for when they say things that we agree with).

[deleted] · 2016-01-26T15:31:54+00:00

I look at TRP as a "what not to do" /r/. After you get over the angry posters, the harsh demeanor, and the idea that you can't be better than you are now, you find that the ideas there are great reminders. You understand how to not be a female orbiter. You learn how to not accept being used. You become more self aware in terms of your emotional output and reliance on men. I always think "I don't want that. I don't want to be that. Therefore I will do better. i will be better.".

LordLeesa · 2016-01-26T18:33:54+00:00

Total lack of interest. I'm not interested in the female versions of it either. :)

BossLaidee · 2016-01-26T21:07:09+00:00

I think it's a bunch of people that see the world in black and white. In my experience, this is one of the hardest personality traits to change.

artichokess · 2016-01-26T09:19:32+00:00

At its core, TRP does reflect some reality for some parts of society. But this is a reality that's growing old, and the western world is rapidly progressing beyond it. Humanity is about keeping our instincts in check and evolving beyond our dispositions, but TRP is a regression to a primitive state where viscera reigns over intellect. Its obsession with evolutionary socio-psychology as an instruction manual rather than as an explanatory tool makes this clear.

Practically speaking, many of the lifestyle and attitude changes that TRP recommends can create positive results for men and women: getting into shape, building confidence, not becoming too attached too quickly, and not being desperate. The camaraderie among men found here probably also has a positive affect on the guys that come to seek help. It's my guess that much of the "success" that TRP's followers experience is due to these aspects of the philosophy, not the addition of becoming a paranoid, overly-analytic, bigoted asshole. And yet they attribute their success to the asshole part.

provanagotannat · 2016-01-26T15:30:46+00:00

I think that the Idea that they claim the Red Pill stands for is kinda interesting. The Side Bar basically. I don't have a problem with that.

However, I think it's very hard to have a real conversation about the red pill and how it sometimes comes off as aggressive rather than helpful. I only write on this sub and not the main red pill, I don't know if that makes a difference. Maybe they get so intense about defending it because the assume I hate it?

But whenever I write something that is either a question about what they mean by something, or if I disagre - the only respone I get is "You have NO proof of this" "You obviously don't know what you're talking about" "haha, that's a strawman" "Can you prove that?" ect ect. (And this is what I see in other comments as well.) I do not get the feeling that the Red Pillers want to discuss The Red Pill at all. Which makes it very hard to take them seriously. As it makes it hard to take anyone seriously who is not willing to have a real discussion about their belifes with people who are in anyway questioning them.

BossLaidee · 2016-01-26T11:16:36+00:00

I could write a bit of a thoughtful essay, but I think this will do for now:

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?"

dota2nub · 2016-01-27T14:15:00+00:00

The craziness is the core concept. Everything else is window dressing.

wombatinaburrow · 2016-01-27T22:41:18+00:00

Some Fishlegs, mostly Snotlout.

DivinePrince2 · 2016-02-01T08:57:26+00:00

All pills are radical. Radical sucks. Be the middle. The middle is the best.

Title	Women: What are your honest impressions of TRP?
Author	whosewineisthis
Upvotes	5
Comments	116
Date	January 26, 2016 3:24 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/42pkax/women_what_are_your_honest_impressions_of_trp/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/women-what-are-your-honest-impressions-of-trp.276682 https://theredarchive.com/post/276682

Comments