For Blue and Red: How do you define modern feminism?

livingthedreamnow · 2015-09-30T20:03:17+00:00

I define feminism as a collective feminine tantrum.

Much the same as how I handled my toddlers' tantrums, I think it's best just to let them cry it out. It's irritating as shit to listen to, but eventually they'll tire themselves out and take a nap.

Archwinger · 2015-09-30T18:06:47+00:00

Feminism is a movement focused on the improvement of the position of women in the world, primarily by addressing areas where women are at a perceived disadvantage and barriers to women created through historical, systemic, or cultural wrongs, intentional or unintentional.

Essentially, it's an advocacy movement seeking a perceived equality to men, not so unlike the civil rights movements for blacks that immediately preceded modern feminism.

Tom_The_Human · 2015-09-30T18:06:36+00:00

A mixture of genuine egalitarianism, female supremacy mistaken as egalitarianism, and outright supremacy.

Amethhyst · 2015-09-30T19:05:14+00:00

I think the original goals of feminism have now largely been achieved in western society; there are choices for those who want to take them, and being born female will no longer mean that being a wife and mother while the rest of the world is 'run by men' is the only option. Women aren't oppressed in our society and have pretty much the same opportunities men do. I don't think we need to achieve 50/50 representation in every field - the whole point of feminism for me is that women can also choose to focus on raising children, if that's what she wants. It's silly to shame women who choose this.

At the same time, part of feminism for me has always been about taking responsibility for yourself, so I do honestly hope that in time 'female privilege' will lessen too. The court system is set up in favour of women right now, and I think the feminists who are fighting for this treatment to continue are wrong.

I guess Feminism now to me is about addressing the lingering vestiges of sexism in our society - namely in how both men and women are perceived and expected to behave by both sexes. I'd like to get to a place where a man can stay at home to raise children if that's what he wants to do, and won't be seen as 'weak'; I hope for a time when a woman can have casual sex and not be labelled a 'slut' for doing the same thing her male peers are. TRP vehemently disagrees, but I do believe that a portion - not all, but a portion - of gender can be attributed to societal pressure. I want to live in a world where that pressure is minimised. To that end, I don't think 'Feminism' really needs to exist as an organised movement anymore - the work that needs to be done now to change the perception of women in our society mostly needs to be done by individual women. It's time to just 'get on with it'.

I don't identify with the 'body positivity' movements and all the other hangers-on as part of feminism. They're not real issues. I can't stand the type of feminist who thinks that women today are victimised more than men in any way.

Gnometard · 2015-09-30T18:17:06+00:00

I think of it like a social movement that's the same as having a girlfriend. I've known few women who ever want to dissect and fix a problem rather than "talk about it"

That's feminism today. They see or perceive a problem, they just want to bitch. They don't want to fix it, they just want to talk.

For example :

No women in stem?

I hear this FREQUENTLY from my friends girlfriend and her group. They all have degrees in sociology and PR. Instead of.... being the change? They blog about how things are problematic and that women are kept out of stem because of patriarchy.

Feminism, sharing the joys of living with a moody woman with the world.

abqkat · 2015-09-30T21:42:08+00:00

In America? A movement that once served a purpose, but now has no coherence, face, effective actions, unified beliefs, or tangible goals. On the one hand, they pander that "that's not real feminism" when met with (very valid) critiques, but OTOH, they moan that "everyone defines it differently."

Since you don't actually have to do anything as a feminist, their ranks are greatly reduced, since anyone can claim that their choices and beliefs are "feminist." But since that doesn't really mean anything, it's a completely arbitrary label that anyone can claim, yet gets you dismissed and pitied if you want no part in it. Or, the even more condescending "no, no you really are a feminist" if you denounce their beliefs.

Despite feminism allegedly being "about gender equality," there are many, many other subtle beliefs that accompany it, like being pro-choice or wanting to end gender roles (and dismissing the people that like them), or thinking that gender is a social construct. In theory, those things aren't really part of the feminist dogma, but they seemed to have claimed it... Since, in America, women have equal rights to men, feminism lost steam many years ago. Women outearn men, are more educated, etc. But since that's not good enough, they've begun the 'fight' on absurd, middle-class-centric, first-world problems like 'manspreading' and 'mansplaining.' And since, according to them, anyone that disagrees with them is ill-informed, sexist, or just plain wrong, there is no point arguing it with them, instead deepening the divide between the 'us' and 'them' - a true pity.

[deleted] · 2015-10-01T01:44:02+00:00

[permanently deleted]

dakru · 2015-09-30T18:13:36+00:00

Feminism is a movement for gender equality acting with the belief that women are an oppressed underclass and that achieving gender equality mostly involves helping out women. Because men are thought to be privileged and "living life on easy mode", any attempt to address men's issues is met with skepticism (at best; downright hostility at worst) because it's seen as reinforcing male privilege and oppression of women (unless it's something as non-threatening as "how misogyny hurts men too").

I personally don't agree with their belief that achieving gender equality mostly involves helping out women. I think that there are numerous very important areas where men are doing worse than women. Still, their goal is gender equality; they just have some wacky beliefs that make them unable to actually achieve gender equality (by recognizing the male side of it), making them (in practice) more of a special interest group for women rather than a gender equality group.

Gnometard · 2015-09-30T18:09:21+00:00

I think feminism today has a lot in common with Islam. I see two main sides the "moderate" public face of feminism and the tumblr/SJW extremists. Sort of like how moderate Muslims work as a smokescreen to keep people from criticizing Islam and it's more radical elements (which actually aren't seen as that radical in many Muslim countries). That's exactly what's happening now with Feminism. If someone tries to criticize any harmful element of feminism the moderates will just claim "feminism is about equality for women AND men, that's not feminism!" Which is a hilarious statement in of itself.

jake_james1234 · 2015-09-30T19:21:06+00:00

In my opinion it depends on the type of feminist, I personally divide feminists into three categories

Egalitarian feminists: Feminists who believe in equal rights for both men and women
Whiny feminists: Feminists who make a big issue out of everything
Radical feminists: Feminists who take feminism to a all new level, i.e UofT protesters

As a male who believes in equal rights for everyone, I only like the first type of feminists

I don't feel like there is a major need currently for feminism in the western world, I think feminism is still needed in a lot of developing countries such as Saudi Arabia

RobotPartsCorp · 2015-09-30T21:16:38+00:00

To me it is believing in equal opportunity and working towards dismantling rigid gender roles.

[deleted] · 2015-10-01T14:49:08+00:00

To me, feminism is something that was necessary at one point in time but is now just a bunch of people with no real problems looking for something to be outraged about.

SecondSwordofbravos · 2015-10-01T18:11:16+00:00

Feminism is the new puritanism. Its all about shaming/policing male "vices": sex, gambling, boozing, "rowdy" behavior. Its also about cultural retardation with constant attacks on science and art.

PIBagent · 2015-09-30T22:52:12+00:00

A female supremacy ideology that needs to be purged. They wear a facade of equality even while promoting inequality that would benefit women.

ECoast_Man · 2015-10-01T01:01:20+00:00

A political lobbyist group who acts in their own self-interest.

[deleted] · 2015-10-01T13:20:28+00:00

It's a fortress of insecure women. Instead's of securing a mate by being women, they try get the same benefits by trying to be men.Alas, They are failing miserably. Real women don't need feminism. They are confident in their femininity. Then again real women are made not born.

pillburt · 2015-09-30T18:13:35+00:00

The main objectionable parts of third wave is Special Treatment Feminism.

Other than that, it's mostly just incorporating LBGT and PoC into the mix, with a little bit of giving a shit about the third world.

winndixie · 2015-09-30T21:21:24+00:00

Lol yep women want to bitch about a problem and demonize and devalue men. Example: girl on Twitter saying her father days women cant be engineers its a man profession, the girl says how can she change her fathers opinion?

There is only one obvious answer. If she was a man, and feels he wants to change his fathers opinion, he already knows the answer to this question. He doesn't need to ask how, he knows the solution to this problem. To a man, even asking this question is imbecile, nevertheless post it on Twitter to further a feminist cause.

Emma Watson then answers with the one and only correct answer: become one.

This proves feminism doesn't want to solve their own problems, rather they complain until things are handed to them on a silver platter then say they earned it because they complained.

I work with women engineers at my workplace and one of my friends has a career in design. but let's face it, most feminists are crazy bitches.

The blacks built tunnels, got educated, and practiced civil disobedience to gain equal rights. The feminists are just complaining.

tallwheel · 2015-10-01T06:42:19+00:00

Feminism is female nature politicized. That is all.

CookieMan0 · 2015-09-30T21:58:07+00:00

I think modern feminism is just a bunch of fat girls complaining on the internet.

Sometimes they have a slutwalk(which is freaking hilarious), but most are too lazy to really make a change

anacrassis · 2015-09-30T23:50:20+00:00

Contemporary feminism is, as far as I'm concerned, divisible into two camps:

(1) The reasonable belief that everyone should be treated equally before the law, and that men and women should, for the most part, be treated the same way; and

(2) The neurotic preoccupation with non-issues like gender roles in Disney movies, and whether or not men sit with their legs too close together or far apart on the subway.

The second type is the focus of unhappy women, usually with a college education, a tepid career, and a dissatisfying personal life. It usually takes the form of clickbait shit from Slate or HuffPo on Facebook feeds.

Frankly, whenever a woman openly identifies as a feminist, I see that as a red flag. I think it's safe to assume that the huge majority of women believe in equal rights for women, but any woman who goes out of her way to label herself as a feminist is too likely to be a member of the second group to be considered seriously for a relationship.

wuboo · 2015-09-30T18:47:52+00:00

Very segmented and all a bit at odds with each other. I think a majority of those who claim to be feminist are mild egalitarians. There are segments like the rad fems who are headaches for everyone.

andrewisgood · 2015-10-01T00:30:23+00:00

Hmmm. I feel asking about feminism here is like asking a heel in pro wrestling what he feels about the local sports franchise. Usually, you know the answer.

Anyway, feminism is generally, the fight for equality and deals a lot with women's issues. Some feminists are different from others. Some may think I'm too much of a hippy, pinko, liberal and others will think I'm misogynist scum. It's incredibly vast. That's why I hate when people say it's a sexual strategy, but some people are incredibly ignorant and there's nothing I can do about that.

I would say modern feminism has more focus on inclusivity and that's how I would differentiate it from the past.

Lonny_zone · 2015-10-01T01:07:25+00:00

Good modern feminist, worth listening to, fighting a fight for her rights: Malala Yousafzai

Bad modern feminist, worth nothing, fighting for power and notoriety: Anita Sarkeesian

obstinatebeagle · 2015-10-01T01:56:41+00:00

Feminism and feminists dictate that the whole world must be exactly the same as they are. It's a type of communism that gets sold as "equality" when all it really is a form of Animal Farm. That's why left wingers predominantly identify as feminists and right wingers (both men and women) don't.

One half of modern feminism lobbies for equal outcomes despite unequal inputs, e.g. management quotas for women even though few women apply. The other half lobbies to retain privileges where women are already ahead, e.g. the Duluth model, divorce courts and Title IX kangaroo courts in US colleges. To say that feminism is about "equality" is very false - it's really about women's rights and privileges, often at the expense of men's.

[deleted] · 2015-10-01T10:57:02+00:00

Feminism is the belief in equality, in that all people should be treated equal. A man should be treated equally to a woman, a black man or woman should be treated equally to a white man and so on.

That means that I can't be a white man, I have to be the same as everyone else. I have to be "one of the people" instead of being myself. I can't treat a woman like she is a woman, I have to treat her the same as I treat a man. But for some reason that's offensive, its unfair, its discriminatory, she needs equal rights even though I have done the best I can.

If we are all the same with "equal rights" that means there is no diversity, it is a cognitively dissonant pathologically narcissistic condition resulting from the idea of rights.

And no one even knows what a "right" is, they think its an entitlement. ie all people have the right to equal treatment.

As if being born gives people some sort of entitlement. Its like a deer saying to a lion I have the right to equal treatment. At every moment of every day people discriminate, some people like McDonald's, others like Burger King.

The real original meaning of discriminate was to recognize a distinction, be aware of differences so by fighting discrimination you don't want to recognize any differences any where, you want everything to be the same always at all times and any differences must be eliminated by screaming racist, sexist, homophobe and so on.

I could ask any feminist to explain clearly what "rights" are and I will never get a straight answer because they don't want to admit that in their world it means entitlement, that because they are women they are entitled to whatever they want, all feelings are valid.

I'm going back to being the same as everyone now so you can't discriminate where I end and the next thing begins.

honkieboi · 2015-10-01T14:50:39+00:00

gigantic shit test - they are constantly amazed and disgusted men are letting them get away with this

ReginaRadfem · 2015-10-01T03:31:48+00:00

Feminism is the radical belief that women are people and should have rights.

Unfortunately, this has proved extremely difficult for a lot of people to process. That's why we feminists still have so much work ahead of us.

[deleted] · 2015-09-30T22:16:38+00:00

Feminism is the belief that men and women are inherently equal and that in situations where the sexes aren't equal or aren't considered equal, such discrepancies should be rectified as much as possible. It's had a very positive impact on society and quite honestly, simply for getting birthrates down to manageable levels, its worth it.

In American society, I do wonder about the imo excessive focus on pop culture 3rd (4th?) wave feminism seems to have. When your legal battles are all won, you move on to more nebulous concepts.

One thing about feminism I notice is this: Feminism puts at times too much stock in "societal constructs" without going deeper into why we have those societal constructs in the first place. Here's my rule about societal constructs: If you notice the same societal constructs all over the world, even in societies that haven't contacted each other, something deeper is probably going on.

Take slut-shaming for example. Slut-shaming can be cruel, but I think feminists don't get is that because men can't ever know for sure if they're the father or not, they have to insist on female virginity to ensure their paternity. Women simply don't know what it's like to have that concern so I think that's a point of miscommunication between the sexes. Another thing is women in the military. When I read articles about women in the army I have to wonder if feminists think that societal pressure is the reason why every single military of every nation that has ever existed has been overwhelmingly male? Because once you acknowledge that men on average are considerably stronger than women, it becomes very apparent why there isn't 50/50 representation in the military.

I've also noticed this trend in American articles about gender and men and women to have a slant of "men and women are equal, except in the ways women are better". This especially irks me because the women who write these articles are inevitably white women, who've had the easiest deal in Western society except for white men.

But these are small gripes. Overall, feminism has been, and continues to be, a great tool for the economic, political, and sexual liberation of women.

winndixie · 2015-09-30T21:23:41+00:00

To be fair in today's society female skills in communication and organization are already valued. Passivism is valued over aggression (which I enjoy cause I hate violence). If you hit on a woman you're risky being sued as a rapist. This puts the decision in the woman's hands. Now with that decision what do women do? Not long lasting relationships, the mostly fuck alphas, become slut apologists, want to put incels in jail, and take beta money, while having a career they got out of crying equality. But I won't go as far as to say women will destroy society, society will fix itself. It works in cycles and we're just on the opposite, extreme side of the wheel right now.

They want to change laws to be "whatever the woman decides". Rape should be legally defined as having consent and having consent means I said so or whatever I feel at this moment.

Women can vote, how equal do you want to be? But there is no need to complain how things are unfair and remove men's only clubs because you don't see the point in it. That in itself is destructive.

Do we need an apocalypse and anarchy to prove how valuable men are?

Title	For Blue and Red: How do you define modern feminism?
Author	colmatterson
Upvotes	9
Comments	93
Date	September 30, 2015 5:57 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3mztka/for_blue_and_red_how_do_you_define_modern_feminism/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/for-blue-and-red-how-do-you-define-modern-feminism.279307 https://theredarchive.com/post/279307

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