How has society been lying to men ?

HappilySingleWoman · 2015-05-11T21:39:46+00:00

TRPillers say that society has been lying to them . Can you explain exactly what you mean ?...

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth40 points41 points42 points 11 years ago (107 children) | Copy Link

Society tells all sorts of lies to all sorts of people all the time.

Men have been lied to by society, like everyone.

As this is a sexual strategy sub...

Specifically they have been lied to by English speaking media and western societal organisations as to the nature of women.

Sometimes by women trying their best, but being wrong. Sometimes by trying not to break a heart, and creating a problem. Sometimes by organisations for young people, and education, who viewed their masculinity as problematic, and femininity as a required virtue.

As a result a lot of men get into the SMP and do not have the faintest clue what the fuck is going on. In fact the information sources they'd always previously trusted (mothers, schools, female friends and that girl that turned them down) had been feeding them utter bullshit on this one particular subject.

When men discover RP they come to understand a model of women that works, that is understandable, that is effective, that appeals to their nature as men.

They look back on what they had been taught, that didn't work, that was mysterious, that was ineffective, that gnawed away at their nature as men.

And they say "I was lied to".

Very often, because ... Who were the mothers, the teachers, the female friends and ex girlfriends ?.... They say "women lied to me".

Because they did. They were the face of this view of women that was incorrect.

its not you its me

That was a whopper.

we just need some time to separate a bit, and the girls are going on holiday anyway

Was heard by a lot of guys....Ooooh, what about...

women dig guys who show their innermost emotions. Show them. They'll see what a nice guy you are

Ummm....

its not ok to run around and play rough. Sit and play at the table

We've only got about a billion of these. You discover RP and say.

I was lied to.

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[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth10 points11 points12 points 11 years ago (35 children) | Copy Link

I can't really say. Not a female. There may be an equivalent.

I don't think that equivaent can be RP directly. My experience with women who understand RP is that it's 70% "well I always knew that" and 30% "huh, ok. That's clever. I can see how that works now".

For the guys that's reversed.

So women why get the same feeling of being lied to from RP... It was masculinity, not feminity that got disciplined or discouraged in the playground. The girl let the low SMV guy down gently more often than the reverse. Girls tried to make it nice, guys just blew off the ugly girls. The media bombarded girls with be slim and pretty which was good RP advice, and boys with be sensitive and emotionally vulnerable which is shitty, shitty, shitty, advice.

So, even in my examples, they are not fully gender reversible. There may be a female equivalent. How about being a smart sexy CEO will make you happy that's probably a good one... Prince Charming always comes, never Sir-fuck-well-I'm-32-he'll-do-hope-he-works-out.

I get the feeling the big lie for the girls is elsewhere.

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I don't know if women were "told" this by anyone in particular, or if they just developed that belief themselves. But a great many women do believe that men should find their (the woman's) career attractive. I've read countless times "I have a good career, earn good money, have a house/car/some other material possession, but I can't find a man". Well no kidding - those attributes are all fine if you're seeking a job or a bank loan, but to the vast majority of men those things just aren't important in a prospective partner (not upfront anyway, some things like a lot of debt might be a long term dealbreaker, but that is a different issue).

When men do tell the truth about what they find attractive in a woman, they are called sexist and misogynist for the opinion that they hold, so they learn to keep silent about it instead.

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Women are lied to as well. I'm not sure that men are particularly to blame for those particular statements. My gut tells me that it's just as often a woman as a man saying "it's what's on the inside that counts". At the minimum though, society lies to women.

Yeah, my mama she told me "don't worry about your size" She says, "Boys like a little more booty to hold at night"

In that lyric it is purportedly men saying that. But really it's her mama, or a female singer delivering that message.

And even beyond the dating sphere, women can be lied to about career and children and what will ultimately make them happy. Personally I think that both men and women are told that the secret to happiness is getting a good-paying corporate job, and I think only a fraction of people truly find it fulfilling.

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[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS9 points10 points11 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

What year would you say this started?

It depends on your background. In some circles, it was considered very wrong and very misogynic to say that women place very high value on looks, physique, status, wealth and masculinity - the first four were presented as secondary at best and little more than the icing on the cake, the latter was presented as outright contraproductive (since masculinity was practically the worst thing, responsible for all deficiencies and woes that befell men and had to be restrained and controlled). On the other hand, things like being sensitive, in touch with your feelings, emotionally open, communicative, self-restrained, attentive, not only in it for the sex, morally good, helpful, considerate etc. this all was presented as being exemplary and absolutely datable. Basically we were given a script according to which all women were sublime pure creatures that went only after the nicest of guys. And women themselves fueled these assumptions by always saying that the actually necessary traits mentioned in the first list were "not that important" and by always complaining about the lack of the traits from the second list. Especially post-wall women in their epiphany phase were pretty good at obscuring these preferences by blaming it on female naivety and the players' misleading charme and sweet lies that women went after hot guys ("we are young and dumb and don't know what's good for us"), as if it was some stroke of fate that lead them to these decisions and not their actual preferences. At the same time, society tells us all the time how mature and reasonable girls are (so much more than those childish boys!), so of course you expect that there have to be decent quality women who behave exactly as they're "supposed" to be and don't have to go through a decade of (fingerquotes) mistakes before finally getting it.

So of course once you hear the exact opposite ("if you're really handsome, you're playing on easymode, bulking up always helps, money is important because chicks are attracted to success, not to you because you buy them stuff, if you're a celebrity, expect women who otherwise wouldn't give you the time of the day to spread their legs for you, and never ever behave like a girl - no talking about feelz, no hours-long conversations without her being in some kind of romantic relationship with you, no walking on eggshells to avoid the topic of sex, and always be a real man, cos girls don't like emotional pansies") and that exact opposite turns out to be the actual dating script, of course you're pissed.

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[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Yes, I'm not saying people have never been lied to before. Of course everyone is lied to, for all sorts of different reasons.

It's how a lot of men were lied to. Perhaps they were lied to in other ways, but they don't discover that. They discover RP, and it exposes the lies above.

I also had a great wife and no need to lower myself to TRP. I highered myself with RP. I found a way that works perfectly, as a human relationship strategy, to fit alongside all the other bits and pieces I'd got worked out. I've basically got the full set.

You've got to distinguish between RP, the philosophy, movement, and model (as defined in our sidebar books) and TRP where a segment come to hang out, chat shit, swap notes, and generally fuck around learning and having a laugh.

TRP is just the offensive tip of an iceberg. I gotta lot of time for the place myself. But if you think TRP is all RP is, you're missing out.

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[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Yes, I used it as everyone would recognise that one.

I think the problem is your average poor frustrated chump is trying to build a model of what works... and this is just another misdirection he has to cope with.

Women receive this misdirection against a fairly good girl game model women understand and employ and therfore cope reasonably well with it.

Men receive this misdirection against a terrible guy game model they are trying to improve, as it doesn't work and therfore this just sends them even further down the wrong path.

Natural Girl Game... and RP Girl Game... Are pretty much the same thing. Be pretty and attractive put some effort into your appearance and clothing and just generally be fun and nice to be around. So they get pretty good advice, in a scenario where even poor game gets results.

Guys get told a terrible game. They get progressively more misdirected. They have no opportunity to correct according to a good model. In scenario's where excellent game is required to get results.

Then they find RP. Then they look back on the last 5-10-15-20 years and get mad as fuck about it.

[–]theory_of_kinkunpilled outlier-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Not as many men and women would be happy in a red pill world as you think.

Thats interesting.

I'd say that a red pill world would actually be extremely good for women. In that world, with every man improving himself, the overall quality of men for dating/marriage would sky rocket. Then they'd just have to sort out the divorce laws in order to marry them again ;)

RP world would be terrible for current RP males. Most of them being SMV4-6 guys who made themselves SMV7-9 guys.... When all the males come rushing to catchup using the same system, they'd be back down the pecking order. When everyone lifts. When everyone understands women. When everyone builds their confidence.... It's back to genetic advantage... and they're back in the pack.

So, Ironically.... RP world is awesome for women... Bad for RP men.... And a negative for men generally (as we've now all got to put in 6 hours improvement a week just to stay in place).

It's a weird one.

[–]theory_of_kinkunpilled outlier-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Yes and no.

Remember we're dealing with a few different codes and cultural customs here. The closest thing we have to understand RP world is something like the dark enlightenment. Perhaps something like pre 20th century Western relationship values. Or maybe traditional polygamy.

The "The Moral Animal" by Robert Wright covers ideas about the origin of moral codes. Probably not approved reading by the red pill, but then probably not blue pill either.

In there he says most societies in the world are polygamous. But most relationships are monogamous.

Imagine all the men and women were lined up by preference (very much sexual market value). Then imagine the chief (or alpha male) getting the pick a a bunch of women. All the women go up a notch. They get a better value male. Even if the woman demands monogamy she will get a better value male than her equal.

Though this explicitly relates to resources. In undeveloped nations polygamy is more common. Resources are very unequally shares. This includes women.

So monogamy was something men fought for. As society became more equal. Wealth was shared as was rights to a woman.

But hey this isn't my theory this is just me reporting someone else's ideas.

Check out the book.

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[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth13 points14 points15 points 11 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

~thunk~

That a headdesk moment right there.

No we went out and experimented... Based on what we had been told/though we knew. Based on a model society had shaped in our brains.

It didn't work very good.

So we adjusted, within the model, being nicer... Being more open.. Trying harder the way the model said how... It got worse. We couldn't figure it out. It's as though the model women had given us was wrong, gave bad answers.

We tried lots of things... Most ended up in a confused jumble, trying to follow the model created by believing what women told us.

Not much choice, really. No one had any other model.

Then we trip over RP and find a model that works. That is simple, elegant, effective, that responds in the real world, that is accurate, that generates good actions and helps you correct them if required.

We realise our old model was very wrong... And we know how we built that old model... By listening to women. We see we were lied to.

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[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link

See that's the retarded bit. You act like you had no exposure to other models? Surely simply watching a successful guy play hard to get with a girl is all the evidence you need?

Really. It ain't that easy.

You do think about that... And then people jump in and tell you that only works on broken girls (sound familiar from round here ?) or well, he's just good looking.. She overlooked the assholry for that and of course every girl tells you She's stupid. I would never do that (sound familiar from round here ?) and of course What we really want is the nice guy we can share our feeling with, and who shares them back (sound familiar from round here ?).

I guess if you closed off the outside world, and just did it on raw experience and taking notes, and never listened to a word women said... Then you can figure it out.

Thats basically what RP did.

You'd just miss the chance to compare notes with the other 100,000 guys.

Most guys got someway towards it on their own.. I learnt a rule (early on) that "Dude, if the chick ain't interested then don't force it. Fold that hand. Move on. Try elsewhere" but I had to work it out myself... Society told me Just keep plugging away, your day will come, true love wins in the end.

And....Look at the women round here... What are they trying to tell us RP guys ? Exactly. The same old shit.

I'm the stupid one for thinking it's retarded to repeatedly use the same model and repeatedly fail over and over again?

Yeah. God knows I was trying to change the model everytime I could and had some success in doing so on my own judgement. But when you try to enlist others to assist ? Particularly any female ? Well, you just start fucking your model up all over again.

It's REALLY HARD to not listen to advice girls give you if you want to land a girl. They look like the experts.

As I say, I'd worked out a few things myself... Kinda the equivalent of 20% RP and 80% BP... But it wasn't until I found RP that it just clicked and I thought "This is it. The model I've never had. It's all here. It's all worked out. Fucking Awesome. I'm having some of this".

What really happened is you never spent much time around women growing up aside from family and superficial conversations.

Actually, no. I'm lucky that I was never an incel guy. I was always 6' 1", reasonably good looking, clever... Had some basic natural advantages. So I did spend a fair amount socialising with women.

They just don't have the chats with a guy there they have with only women there. The women only chats are largely honest. The chats with a guy are all "What is the right thing to tell this guy".

Girls will tell other girls... Oh yeah, fucked him because he was Hot. Pfoar. You see him in those jeans ? Shame he pumped and dumped me..... Guy asks them the same question ?... Oh, well he had such a nice personality. I just fancied a bit of fun. But he didn't work out for me, not my type in the end. You'd be a great B/F but I'm not looking right now, and you're a friend.

Seriously. You girls really fuck young men over. I'm not even kidding.

I can't tell you if we do the same in reverse... But I doubt it. Most women I know are well aware what guys like, and say guys ain't afraid of saying so. Women present or not.

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[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes, or it should do at 21.

At 38... Not so much.

You see, I have had everything else pretty much nailed for a while. Lots of models. How the world worked. All good models. Economics, Politics, Ethics, Philosophy, Biology, Genetics, Science more generally... How our universe and all things within it work.

Except for one big gaping hole...

"Fucking humans. How do they work !"

Along comes RP... Due to all the other models I could see right away that this fit. That it was the filler for the big hole. (At least the female side, the male side was partially worked out and RP fit in just fine there).

So I filled my hole. Checked it out for 6-12 months. Was sure it was filled. Then had a look around to check for any gaps.... All filled now... No gaps anymore. Complete world model, that works.

Because of that I'm not expecting another paradigm shift. Even if what I've worked out ain't 100% right... I'm pretty sure it's 80% right... And I've been over the current alternatives well enough to know no-one else is coming close to that score.

Also because I'm a clever, cocky and an asshole... Going to get increasingly difficult to budge me. I think there are only 3-4 posters around here who could even give it a decent try. More on RP subs.

So, barring a scientific breakthrough, I'm pretty much there.

Keep plugging away with your attitude. From what I can see you've got it nailed down tight for a 21 year old. I was assuming mid-thirties at least. You're WAY ahead of the pack.

You're easily way ahead of me at 21... Read a lot... Including books you disagree with (you only change your mind reading those)... Build your models, integrate.... By 28 you'll have a complete worldview.

So many fail to even try.

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[–]London-BananasSunset Red25 points26 points27 points 11 years ago* (30 children) | Copy Link

Getting to the sexual point first: movies, mothers, girls and girlfriends always told men to be a loving, stable and considerate man. That's what they want, what they need. So you go out and try hard to be that. What they don't tell you is that they only need this after they've wasted their youth with drug addicts, criminals, dead-end musicians and the like. You find that out by yourself.

A second point is society as a whole. Provide, have a stable job, spend 20 years in school, save for retirement, get a mortgage, get married. And when you do, your job/marriage takes all of your time and energy and all you get in return is the ability to pay the bills you never had without all that stuff. Maybe a bit of change to fuel an alcohol addiction. As Charles Bukowski put it: Frankly, I was horrified by life, at what a man had to do simply in order to eat, sleep, and keep himself clothed. So I stayed in bed and drank. When you drank the world was still out there, but for a moment it didn't have you by the throat.

Personally, I started reading RP material in my early twenties. Before marriage, before mortgage. I am thankful for that everyday. When I realized every advice and belief ever imposed on me was basically a lie, my world felt empty. It was empty. I had to build a whole new existence from scratch. So I started taking notes. I walked into a forest and sat on a fallen tree for hours, days. What do I want out of my career? What friendships do I want to strengthen? Do I want kids? A dog? How do I see my parents now? Will I move abroad? Am I happy?

It took time, and it was worth every minute. I realized that maybe I don't want kids, I just wanted them out of guilt to my parents. I did want a dog, a German Shepard. I got a German Shepard, trained the guy from pup he's my most loyal friend. I did want to move abroad, got a job in Germany and live there. I am happy. If I dropped dead this minute, there would be things left I wanted to do. But there would be nothing left that I could have already done.

In all that happiness, I completely forgot about women. I mean, they show up at my door from time to time. Suck my dick, do my laundry, the usual. Merely a byproduct of being a wholesome person. I used to be angry at women. Couldn't get the hot chicks in high school, was lied to by girls who "friendzoned" me. I'm not mad now, for it was I who had been wrong all the while. I didn't control my life. It's easy to not control your own life. You just do what other people tell you.

So yes, I feel lied to. And TRP has woken me up, shook my head, threw ice cold water in my face, pointed a finger at society and said "look at this steaming pile of crap, is this what you live for?". Some guys say TRP is a bunch of angsty teenagers making up stories of their sexual conquest. Maybe it is just that. But those teenagers gave me the ability to live my life on my terms, and I will be grateful for that until the day I die with a smile on my face, knowing I didn't leave a stone unturned.

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[–]RELTIH88Red Pill Man14 points15 points16 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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Well, TRP is supposed to be about wiping away illusions and false beliefs. Learn to identify what you truly want in life, and learn how to get it somewhat efficiently. (In the Matrix, the red pill takes you outside of the Matrix, and the blue pill leaves you plugged in.)

Most guys don't really care about making tons of money. They mostly want their basic needs taken care of, some good friends, a pretty woman to love and have sex with.

However, there are a lot of average-looking but smart men in their 20s that can't get laid. Society tells them to get rich. So they write a ton of professional exams, work 60 hour weeks in a job that doesn't make them happy. They save up their cash, because they don't have any real need for it. Eventually they find a mediocre woman to marry. She spends most of his money (or takes half in a divorce). Basically, the idea here is that this guy put a whole lot of effort into something that didn't really benefit him that much. Maybe he would have been better off learning to play guitar, lifting weights or learning to be more confident.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]WhisperSecretly a Talking Dog10 points11 points12 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]nomenculture-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]nomenculture-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]London-BananasSunset Red3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

If you've spent your life believing women are divine and their pussy is the holy grail, it might surprise you that they want to please a successful person. The reason this happens is because I don't really care about it, it just happens. If you chase her around the world she knows she's got you, and you'll do this and that before you get to pass through what you consider to be the Holy Gates. But if you're just living your life and doing what you love, this is her only way to get your attention, to get access to your time.

Now this does require you to be valuable. However, I don't body build, I don't care for designer clothers, and I most certainly don't sunbed. What I do is things I enjoy. Things I do for me and no one else. Aside from being tall, I'm not exceptionally physically attractive. What I do however is value my time and hand it out with care.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I used to spend a lot of time ignoring women, largely because I was sure I am unworthy for the holy pussy indeed. Now of course it is not the same thing as what you mentioned, one could even say it is the opposite end of the scale, say ignore because you are unworthy < chase because you think you may be worthy < ignore because you are sure you are worthy.

Yet I wonder what the actually perceivable difference may be?

In my "ignore because I am unworthy" phase I used to avoid all interaction with women (just as I generally avoid interaction with people, I dislike people), when necessary, I used a stony lifeless look, and a monotonous voice so that they don't recognize me as a person, but only as a customer, coworker, or whatever the interaction required. This in fact could be seen as a pretty "alpha" as I was cold as ice, or as a corpse. No emotion was shown. No life at all.

Guess what nothing happened. Although I don't really know how could have anything happened, I went to work, typed on the computer, went home, read stuff online or books, drank booze and slept, occasionally a gym, so I did not really socialize. (Later on when I got over this phase I got into internet dating, turned on some women think like me and hate socializing and from that on it worked.)

I just want to say not chasing is not enough. I guess you want to be that kind of non chaser who is full of life and fun, not the kind of non chaser who is cold and distant like a corpse or robot.

Of course part of the story was that I was not doing, still not doing what I love because I don't really love anything. How did you figure out what you love? I was not really taught to love things, I was mainly raised that you "must" all. You must go to school. You must do your homework. You must work. I think learning to love things was not part of my skillset. How did you learn what you love?

[–]London-BananasSunset Red1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

How did you figure out what you love?

That is a good question. First I thought a lot about what interests me. That's harder than it seems. I thought about what I liked to do as a kid, what I really enjoyed. Getting into fights with my brother, playing in a forest, setting things on fire (not in a forest). From here I just started trying a lot of things. I tried several martial arts and loved it, I started mountainbiking but didn't like it. I switched to hiking and that I really enjoyed. I added camping, now I just pack my stuff and go on a hiking/camping trip for a week or two when I have time. Alone, with friends, doesn't matter. My job relates to the fire thing but I'd rather not disclose that here.

Anyways get back to basics, try a ton of things. During this you'll come to learn a lot about what skills you have, what skills you enjoy putting to use, and eventually you'll zoom in on a couple of hobbies and carreer paths that interest you. Remeber you're not on earth to work like a mule, just make sure you have fun even when working.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]hippydipster4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]hippydipster2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I disagree with what people consider good parenting today. This is one of this things I can get really conservative about I guess. The tougher parenting style our grandparents got was IMHO better. Today people think it is not mandatory to be a parent anymore, but if you are then you cease to be a person and must do everything from the angle of trying to raise a perfectly succesful kid, essentially eslaved to them. To the hell with that. Usually what kids require is some discipline, and a good school. Occasionally talking whenever both feel like the urge. Not the high intensity helicopter parenting bullshit.

Even in my childhood it was better, I was made understood I am a low ranking member of the family, so when for example I want to talk and they don't, then I shut up or get a slap. Guess what, this made me into a respectful and normal person. But even I was more of a little prick than my parents or grandparents because my parents gave in partially to modernity and allowed me things like calling uncles on first name terms, or occasionally talking back when given an order. They and their own parents turned out to be far more disciplined people.

[–]hippydipster2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]London-BananasSunset Red3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]London-BananasSunset Red0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]RichieFinnRed Pill Man6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]RichieFinnRed Pill Man9 points10 points11 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]obstinatebeagle2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]wazzup987Blue pill, you can beat me black & blue for it later[🍰] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Quintus_PillusA danger to society1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NotKateBush0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]Glenbert4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]NotKateBush0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Ok, what about this sentence...

In my experience, the Bobs and Jims and Phils of the world are doing alright in the relationship department.

And the very next sentence you uttered

Sure, some are going to be single for life,

Are you not getting. That is not a desired goal state for them, is it ?

but the majority get on with dating and sex and relationships like humans tend to do.

Yes, spectacularly poorly. So poorly that the only thing that keeps them happy is looking at the poor fucks you threw overboard above and thinking "Well, at least I ain't single for life... Once per month sex beats no sex".

I don't know where this idea of only the top 5% of guys are getting all the women in the world and the 95% left are forever alone.

No, I disagree with that as well. The top 20% get as much sex as they want, the bottom 20% get no sex apart from hookers and the middle 60% get way less sex than they want, but enough to stave off eating the gun.

All you have to do is look at your average suburban neighborhood to see it's mainly made up of plain old average people coupled up.

I agree. All those guys coupled up. Very few of them living the sex life they dreamed of. Most of them living a sex life that feels like purgatory if not outright hell.

Tell me. What is the prevailing societal wisdom on this...

"All those paired off married guys have a whale of a sex life"

OR

"All those paired off married guys getting very little, making jokes to each other about getting very little, watching TV shows where it's clear that getting very little is the norm, and generally accepting being married means getting very little. Thats just the way things are."

No SMP understanding needed for the vast majority of men in this world.

Bollocks. Sure, they may not need teh pure SMP stuff as long as they stay off the market... But they should know what their alternative is (and it's usually better than a blue ball marriage)... Whatsmore, even if they wish to ignore the SMP stuff, what it can teach them about what women like and about how to give that to women is extremely useful.

I know. I was a paired off married guy. RP has been so useful to me and my relationship you wouldn't believe.

Those guys need the knowledge, even if they stay out of the SMP, because it helps them get laid with the wife and it builds a happy, fun, harmonious, sexy, enjoyable household for all persons within it.

Turns out... This is a goal that a lot of married guys would like to achieve. RP shows them how, with a model that works, in contrast to every other model they've ever found.

The really cool thing is that this model boiled down to "Be a Man" and, generally, men are quite cool with doing something like that.

[–]NotKateBush1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

There are single women in the world. There are women stuck in boring sexless marriages. There are women who have a lot of fun dating. There are women who are forever going to be lonely. There are women who live happily ever after in amazing marriages. Of course this happens to men too.

I don't know where this "every man is miserable" thing comes from. I don't see in my friends and family a bunch of horribly lonely men nor hordes of men stuck in sexless relationships. The only place I see it to any of the extremes you listed are in shitty sitcoms. It's possible that I live in some magical bubble where most people are doing alright and don't live a life made up of tv tropes. I do think part of happy, successful, fulfilling relationships come a lot easier with a more progressive attitude. That seems to be the exact opposite of rp ideals though. Instead of a "husband does this, wife puts out" transactional relationship, people seem to do a hell of a lot better in more equal partnerships.

How is it that so many of us have successful, sex-filled, happy relationships without having to subscribe to a strict set of red pill ideals?

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

There are single women in the world. There are women stuck in boring sexless marriages. There are women who have a lot of fun dating. There are women who are forever going to be lonely. There are women who live happily ever after in amazing marriages. Of course this happens to men too.

Yup, it's just the "splits" on all those figures are markedly different between males and females.

More females are satisfied with the sex they receive in marriage than males are satisfied with the sex they receive in marriage (for example).

More males have no access to sex, at all, than there are females that have no access at all (by a very large margin...Orders of magnitude)

And so on...

I don't know where this "every man is miserable" thing comes from. I don't see in my friends and family a bunch of horribly lonely men nor hordes of men stuck in sexless relationships.

So, all the men in your family discuss their sex life openly, and in a frank and embarassing manner to a girl. Admitting their unhappiness, and that they are not Mr Studly in the bedroom ?

Colour me surprised that they don't talk to you about it.

They talk to me about it.

The only place I see it to any of the extremes you listed are in shitty sitcoms. It's possible that I live in some magical bubble where most people are doing alright and don't live a life made up of tv tropes.

Why is this used in sitcoms... People laugh at unexpected truths. To see someone openly admitting the truth they know, can be quite funny.

There is a reason this is a common sitcom plot.

I do think part of happy, successful, fulfilling relationships come a lot easier with a more progressive attitude. That seems to be the exact opposite of rp ideals though. Instead of a "husband does this, wife puts out" transactional relationship, people seem to do a hell of a lot better in more equal partnerships.

Lol. Well first, I'd agree on the political progressiveism... Being a political progressive in a progressive marriage. (I know, I'm not saying I'm a majority in TRP).

But you're idea that RP must make it transactional is false. One of our core pieces of advice (you will find on almost every married thread) is "Don't do transactional deals to get sex".

They don't work, basically.

RP men don;t want sex "Because there wife sighed and said, well ok I made a deal, here you go. Heres the duty sex I need to give you pay up". Thats even if the women pay up, which is rare.

RP guys want their woman to want to have sex with him. Thats what we try and create in an LTR. That feeling in her that she is happy, perhaps desperate even, to have sex with him any time he wants it. Because, then, when she has it... She does it like she wants it and all involved have a much more satisfying deal.

So if you think RP leads to "transactional sex" you are very wrong indeed. We steer very clear of that. Our objectives are different... To get the ladies so wet they want to rip our clothes off and do the dirty. THATS the point.

How is it that so many of us have successful, sex-filled, happy relationships without having to subscribe to a strict set of red pill ideals?

Because some people naturally get lucky.

Others have "good natural game".

But, more importantly, because there are lots of girls who report "My relationship is excellent, there is nothing wrong with our sex life, it's wonderful" ... But lots of guys who report "My relationship is OK, everything is pretty good apart from the sex, that sucks. My blue balls are as big as my head"

Now, clearly, there are some women who are reporting the former... Whose husbands are reporting the latter.

This is probably because they are a woman for whom "Once every couple of weeks" is enough, married to a man for whom that is NOT enough, and "because their relationship is equal" he kinda just has to say "Yes dear. I recognise your sex drive is as important as mine. No, dear. The blue balls don't hurt. Yes dear, I will wait until the week after next before initiating again. I know you're tired".

Seriously. Every woman on here that tells me how awesome her sex life is... But who DOESN'T tell me it's 3-4 times a week+... I really DO wonder what hubby would say about his view of the sex life given a chance to speak, free of repercussions.

Trust me, over at RP we hear "But our relationship is really equal" all the time from Noobs.

It don't take them long to figure out that "equal" in this context means that "The woman gets to pursue her goals, and has persuaded the man that his job is also to help her pursue her goals too. No-one in the deal is pursuing the mans goals".

It's like RP 101.

And.... The gals around here just set off our red flags for that shit pretty much constantly.

[–]NotKateBush3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Basically what you're saying is I can't possibly know what men are experiencing in relationships, but you know all about women's experiences in relationships.

Nope. I am believing, entirely, your self report as to your feelings. I am allowing you to represent women.

I just disagree with you when you represent men.

I think I, and RP more generally, know men better than women do. So, whilst we can accept your response concerning how the women feel... We are not just going to accept your response as to how men feel.

Apart from anything else... and there is a lot else... It's triggering our "Oh, here come the lies again" flags.

The guys who are attracted to the red pill are obviously not going to be happy in their love lives. I think it's a mistake to think the relationships of those seeking out trp are representative of the norm.

I'm not particularly talking about the relationships present in RP. I am talking about men out in BP world. I'm a man. I lived in that world as a BP man for 20 years. I still live in it now as an RP man.

I see how the men feel about their sex lives.

And if there's truth in sitcoms,then pretty much all men are bumbling, oafish, unattractive idiots with super hot, ambitious wives. Sounds kind of like the opposite of what the red pill claims relationship dynamics are like.

Well, RP would say that they are representing your standard BB + Post-Epiphany Wife scenario.

SMV7 woman can;t snag a good 'un, she settles for Mr SMV6 "nice guy" pumps out the babies her genes want her to have. Then turns the sex tap way down.

Our theoretical scenario there matches very well with sitcom relationships.

[–]hippydipster0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]NotKateBush0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]hippydipster1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]NotKateBush1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]nomenculture-3 points-2 points-1 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	How has society been lying to men ?
Author	HappilySingleWoman
Upvotes	21
Comments	162
Date	May 11, 2015 9:39 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/35n5hq/how_has_society_been_lying_to_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/how-has-society-been-lying-to-men.282219 https://theredarchive.com/post/282219

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