Question for BP: Have you witnessed first-hand in real life, examples of the Red Pill appearing to have truth behind it? If so, what makes you stick with being BP/anti-Red Pill, despite witnessing Red Pill behavior from men/women in real life?

VoidInvincible · 2014-12-05T01:07:50+00:00

Curious to know if BP has any confirmation bias towards Red Pill IRL, but still decide to disregard it, and your reasoning behind denying the Red Pill has any...

[–]yaseedog will hunt23 points24 points25 points 11 years ago* (174 children) | Copy Link

Definitely! Fitness and grooming are attractive, being cocky gets you noticed, teasing someone tends to make them want to qualify themselves to you; I could probably go on. Some red pill stuff is pretty intuitive (it's also nothing new, but I guess you could give them points for consolidating it if you were feeling charitable). I'm sure I've even seen women trade up, shit-test, cheat on their partners, act like children and all the rest.

I've also seen men do all those same shitty things, which is the answer to your second question. For me the real kernel of truth to TRP is "people are shitty sometimes, and relationships make you vulnerable". I stop short of taking it further to "...so you can safely assume you're better than the people you want to sleep with". That's not an ego boost I want or need right now; I've already got enough delusions of grandeur

edit - for posterity here's a (by no means exhaustive) list of things I think TRP is miles up its own ass about:

-women are more manipulative than men (also somehow dumber--it's that low female cunning, man)

-women get away with everything!

-women are incapable of loyalty & theirs is a love less "pure"; men have the capacity to love unconditionally.

-that slut/stud thing is totally logical!

-we exaggerate because that's just how men communicate, duh. Our particular brand of bullshitting=free of bullshit, you see

-and last but not least: the 80/20 rule

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[–]AFormidableContenderPurple Pill Man-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't think anyone's arguing that women have an easier time getting sex than men. What I disagree with is judging the women negatively and praising the man for having sex with each other.

Being a man who regularly fucks women requires an enormous investment in time, skill, practice and emotional turmoil. Even good looking men are not going to have amazing success just by being easy on the eyes. Being a woman who fucks a lot of guys requires you are alive, and you consent to it. Assuming the woman values her reputation, sleeping around is bad because it demonstrates a lack of self control and poor selection skills, as well as insinuating a poor chance of fidelity if commitment was given. It's really very simple.

The counter argument by bluepills is always "what if she just likes having a lot if sex?". That's fine, but it doesn't exonerate her from biologically directed norms. I prefer not paying for things but I'd rather not be considered a scumbag theif. No one said the cock carousel came free.

That being said, sluts are awesome. The world needs more.

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure[S] 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]idhavetochargehumanist, devils advocate0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Any person with a very high partner count is more likely to not make an emotional connection with sex. A man that has had sex with 50 people is less likely to want a relationship to last and the same goes for women. Just because you would high five the man and tell the woman she is a terrible human does not mean the man is not also a terrible human. Or maybe neither is terrible and they are pursuing fun in their own way. Why does one have to be put down for wanting the same as the other? Why should either be derided or applauded? If it is not illegal or harmful, keep your nose out of others genitals.

There is a stereotype of women asking why he didnt call after they finally had sex. You almost never see men asking that question. There is also the whole 'men feel sex equals love' that is decidedly false with men that are not in a relationship. At least women that are just looking for sex are honest about it.

When i was young and dating, most of the advice i was given was 'never have sex too early, never on the first date, and make him wait at least a few months. . I realize now that it was never about making a guy wait for sex for the sole purpose of making him wait. It is about getting to know him and seeing if he is actually looking for a relationship instead of a hole to get off. Even then some men play the long con and will drop a woman as soon as sex has been had. Getting another notch should be a mutual agreement, not a game. That is simple ethics.

Also, for all trp harps on women using sex for some kind of bargaining chip, a woman that has sex with no agenda is worse? How does that equal logic?

Trp has some good advice about becoming a better person and not letting anyone use you for a doormat. But it lacks in scientific facts when it comes to partner count. Vaginas are full of muscle. Muscle becomes more toned and stronder with frequent use. Vaginas are also designed by nature to return to very close to the same after childbirth. If having something as big as a newborn pass through that does not cause lifechanging ( or sex changing) damage, no penis will ever do as much damage or change a vagina. Hormones released after birth can tighten up a vagina so much that sex can be very painful. Yes it actually gets tighter. Once any damage is healed, it goes back to much the same as before. If there has been much tearing, it can scar and as anyone can tell you, scars pull things even tighter. Maybe permanently if you do not take steps to stretch during healing.

As for vaginal areas getting darker because sex, that is also not based on fact. Aging, dyeing, hormones, tanning,or disease. Those are what changes skin color. If sex alone made skin darker, then stopping haveing sex should return it to a lighter shade if you work with your hands, you may develop calluses, they will go away if you stop using them. But your hands do not get darker. Lifting weights gives you strenght and bigger muscles. It does not give you a darker skin tone. Your penis does not get darker the more you use it. No part of the human body is capable of getting darker OR becoming more slack from working out. Even stretching gives you more strength and flexability. It does not cause loss of tone or create slackness. Some of the most flexable people are also the strongest.

Another stupid thing that people ( nearly all people) do is deride an ex. A couple i knew was always bragging how good their sex life was in a relationship of three years. His penis was huge, she was the tightest ever, the sex was awesome. When they broke up in year four, his penis shrank to three inches, she was a loose whore and both of them said they couldnt even feel it when they had sex. Reality? Not by a long shot. Simply jabs to put down the other and make it seem less hard to move on. They said those things out of love at first, and out of hate after. I have seen this happen so many times it is normal to hear both the love and the hate. It is almost hilarious how it switches back and forth in an on again/ off again couple.

Women can get sex easier because a lot of men are sluts and those types of men are very easy to find. Men can find it harder to get sex because women mostly want relationships. Women think sex can get them a relationship sometimes. Men use the bait of wanting a relationship to get sex sometimes. Sometimes men find a woman that also wants just sex and then they both get what they are looking for. But she is a slut and he is a stud just because he despises a woman that wants what he wants? Does not equal logic.

Hey, i want to have sex. Do you also want sex? I have no intention of seeing you after. I dont want to be in a relationship but i find you attractive enough for sweaty naked fun.

Sure, i also want sex. I do not want to have a relationship right now either. I am also attracted to your body. Lets go have that sweaty naked fun.

The next morning.

You are such a slut, i cannot believe you let me use you for the purpose of sexual satisfaction.

But wait, i also used you for sexual satisfaction. We both got what we wanted.

But now you are a slut because you had sex with me without a relationship. You are not fit for a relationship and i could never care for you.

Wut? Are you serious? We both said we did not want a relationship ( or the subject never even came up) why does that make me a slut and you a stud?

I tricked you into having sex.

No, i wanted it. There was no trick.

Slut!

Wtf? Whatever. You are an asshole.

Many years later; (same guy, different woman) why does my gf/wife not want to have sex with me?She must not love me. Maybe i am not a stud or she is a cold unfeeling bitch. Or she must want me to buy her some object

(Same girl, different man). I wish i could have sex with him more, but he will think i am a slut and stop loving me. If i do not pretend to dislike sex, or if i try to open up and get kinky, he will despise me. Fuck playing this game, sex isnt worth it anymore. It is too stressful to suggest trying something new.

Fuck your double standards. They create a situation where nobody wins and everyone gets damaged. Cut this shit out. Let people that just want to get off do so without the hate filled judgements so that people who want to fuck like rabbits with someone they actually love will not agonize over being judged for wanting sex.

If you do not want a partner with a high partner count, because your values may not be the same, then no one is forcing you into that. If you have a high count and hate on others that do, that is the ultimate in self hate. ' do as i say, not as i do' ' you are unloveable if you have done the same as i have'. If you say you cannot love someone that is the same as you, then you must not love yourself since this is something to be despised. That is insecurity while facing your own reflection.

Let it go and maybe we can all win.

[–]AFormidableContenderPurple Pill Man4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Any person with a very high partner count is more likely to not make an emotional connection with sex. A man that has had sex with 50 people is less likely to want a relationship to last and the same goes for women. Just because you would high five the man and tell the woman she is a terrible human does not mean the man is not also a terrible human. Or maybe neither is terrible and they are pursuing fun in their own way. Why does one have to be put down for wanting the same as the other? Why should either be derided or applauded? If it is not illegal or harmful, keep your nose out of others genitals.

Because men and women are not the same and do not value the same values in the opposite gender as they do in their own. A man who can get 50 women is a stud. A woman who fucks 50 men is a slut with no self control. Why? Because the average partner count in America is 5 by 35, and that's a generous number being boosted by highly sexualized people like those same people banging 50 people each. If a man is fucking 50 women, he has fucking skills to pay the bills. If a woman is fucking 50 men, she's doing nothing but opening her legs, and taking resumes.

When i was young and dating, most of the advice i was given was 'never have sex too early, never on the first date, and make him wait at least a few months. . I realize now that it was never about making a guy wait for sex for the sole purpose of making him wait. It is about getting to know him and seeing if he is actually looking for a relationship instead of a hole to get off. Even then some men play the long con and will drop a woman as soon as sex has been had. Getting another notch should be a mutual agreement, not a game. That is simple ethics.

"Ethics" in the battle of sex dynamics is extremely convenient for the gender that can get sex on demand, quite literally...

Trp has some good advice about becoming a better person and not letting anyone use you for a doormat. But it lacks in scientific facts when it comes to partner count. Vaginas are full of muscle. Muscle becomes more toned and stronder with frequent use. Vaginas are also designed by nature to return to very close to the same after childbirth. If having something as big as a newborn pass through that does not cause lifechanging ( or sex changing) damage, no penis will ever do as much damage or change a vagina. Hormones released after birth can tighten up a vagina so much that sex can be very painful. Yes it actually gets tighter. Once any damage is healed, it goes back to much the same as before. If there has been much tearing, it can scar and as anyone can tell you, scars pull things even tighter. Maybe permanently if you do not take steps to stretch during healing.

TRP'ers don't care about lose vagina as an ideology.

As for vaginal areas getting darker because sex, that is also not based on fact. Aging, dyeing, hormones, tanning,or disease. Those are what changes skin color.

I also don't know where this came from. TRP'ers don't care about "dark vaginas" as an ideology.

Another stupid thing that people ( nearly all people) do is deride an ex. A couple i knew was always bragging how good their sex life was in a relationship of three years. His penis was huge, she was the tightest ever, the sex was awesome. When they broke up in year four, his penis shrank to three inches, she was a loose whore and both of them said they couldnt even feel it when they had sex. Reality? Not by a long shot. Simply jabs to put down the other and make it seem less hard to move on. They said those things out of love at first, and out of hate after. I have seen this happen so many times it is normal to hear both the love and the hate. It is almost hilarious how it switches back and forth in an on again/ off again couple.

Because most people are stupid shits who lack emotional maturity. This isn't new.

Women can get sex easier because a lot of men are sluts and those types of men are very easy to find. Men can find it harder to get sex because women mostly want relationships. Women think sex can get them a relationship sometimes. Men use the bait of wanting a relationship to get sex sometimes. Sometimes men find a woman that also wants just sex and then they both get what they are looking for. But she is a slut and he is a stud just because he despises a woman that wants what he wants? Does not equal logic.

Of course it equals logic. Shitty lock, master key, blah blah. A guy who can go out and get sex has invested a large amount of time, skill, and knowledge into learning how to be attractive enough for women to forgo the hoops she'd make a beta jump through. The women's only qualifier for being in this equation was that she was lucky enough to be born pleasant looking. She required no skills. She invested no time beyond, possibly taking a shower, and doing her make up, which is beauty she bought off a shelf. There is nothing to respect in women who have sex frequently. All it signifies is that she's less likely to be faithful if you actually got her in an LTR.

Many years later; (same guy, different woman) why does my gf/wife not want to have sex with me?She must not love me. Maybe i am not a stud or she is a cold unfeeling bitch. Or she must want me to buy her some object

(Same girl, different man). I wish i could have sex with him more, but he will think i am a slut and stop loving me. If i do not pretend to dislike sex, or if i try to open up and get kinky, he will despise me. Fuck playing this game, sex isnt worth it anymore. It is too stressful to suggest trying something new.

This is silly and not realistic.

Fuck your double standards. They create a situation where nobody wins and everyone gets damaged. Cut this shit out. Let people that just want to get off do so without the hate filled judgements so that people who want to fuck like rabbits with someone they actually love will not agonize over being judged for wanting sex.

No, fuck you for thinking you can do whatever you want, and are somehow immune from my judgement, dude. I will judge whomever, for whatever I please and by whatever standard I deem morally, legally, and philosophically fit. Go shit on your fellow women for demanding men be 14 feet tall, which is something men literally can't do anything about. Rich, and successful which is fucking hard. Sick, ripped, masculine bodies which is fucking hard. Awesome head of flow which is genetic lottery... Tall, dark and handsome is not an effort for men...it's impossible. On the other hand, I and my TRP brethren are judging you on something you have a cognitive choice on, and you're bitching it's unfair? Seriously? Check your own double standards before indicting us of ours.

Nobody wins? Information is power. If I'm a man good enough to get you, and you've fucked, lets say, 150 men, why would I bother with you? You clearly lack self control and are likely going to cheat on me in a week...why wouldn't I go get a woman with a much lower count and investment my emotional investment AND sexy body in her instead? The only person it hurts it you/women and you people have been burning men for years...

Hurts, doesn't it?

If you do not want a partner with a high partner count, because your values may not be the same, then no one is forcing you into that. If you have a high count and hate on others that do, that is the ultimate in self hate. ' do as i say, not as i do' ' you are unloveable if you have done the same as i have'. If you say you cannot love someone that is the same as you, then you must not love yourself since this is something to be despised. That is insecurity while facing your own reflection.

No, because men and women are not the same and do not value the same ethics in the opposite gender as their own.

Let it go and maybe we can all win.

Translation~ "Let go and maybe women can win even more than we already do". Yea,...no thanks.

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[–]yaseedog will hunt-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (38 children) | Copy Link

I have had this conversation a number of times in this sub. Every attempted justification of it I've seen relies on pointing out the difference in levels of effort it generally takes for women and men to have casual sex, which is a perfectly good way of explaining why promiscuous men are "studs" but provides no insight into why promiscuous women are "sluts" (a pejorative, not a neutral descriptor). The analyses never explain how sleeping around being easy for women makes it bad/icky/wrong; occasionally someone pipes up with "evolution"! which is also fine, but then we're talking about an emotional gut reaction, not a rational response.

I'm just tired of people smugly citing the shitty lock/master key thing like it does anything other than restate their insecurities in snappy metaphor form. If attraction is non-negotiable then you don't need to explain why slutty girls make your pee-pee unhappy; own your emotional biases, it's the alpha thing to do

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[–]We_Are_LegionAutumn Red-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago* (18 children) | Copy Link

shame

verb

(of a person, action, or situation) make (someone) feel ashamed.

I was not aware there were any women in TRP that could be being shamed. Hell, we do our part to keep ourselves isolated and our conversation never to touch anyone outside. No one is invited and women especially are booted. How do we shame women exactly?

As far as I see it, you guys are seeking out a way to feel shamed and victimized by yourselves. How many people have we heard on PPD and TBP saying TRP helps them see again why feminism is needed?

I think that statement whenever its said is profoundly indicative of a very sad fact. You need the TRP boogeyman in your lives. You need to feel shamed and relevant as victims.

EDIT: I should mention it is factually good sexual strategy not to be anything but sex positive in real life. RP is very vocal about keeping your misogynist thoughts to yourself(see: assortment of discussions on 48 laws of power + dozens of other posts). RP simply chooses not to wife sluts. It doesn't ever shame them. In any way.

[–]yaseedog will hunt1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]We_Are_LegionAutumn Red-2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago* (16 children) | Copy Link

so forget the word "shaming"

I accept your defeat. :)

and just focus on the slut/stud designation as it is discussed in TRP. We're not talking about hurt feelings, just whether it makes rational sense to personally perceive women negatively for promiscuous behavior.

Why do women dislike PUAs? And players? And TRPers? After all, there's no reason to assume he's going to do the same to you. He was just having his honest fun. Basically, its a "once a whore, always a whore" mentality. But why is being a whore a problem at all?

Well, what is your rationale for perceiving emotional manlets negatively? Well, because if you mated with him, he'd be a terrible husband. Or at least, that's your evolved response. The same goes for women and weakness in men of all kinds. Short, socially awkward, timid, low status, poor, homeless, deformed, fat, etc, etc.

You just don't like them. Your instincts don't want you to mate with them. Or hell, even associate with them. Typically, they repulse you. You'll make friends with them and not be bothered about their social retardation/etc but that's because you're a good, kind person.

Similar deal with sluts. So while women need men with strength or success. Men need women with... innocence and chastity.

To this end, sluts are disgusting and emotionally off-putting if you're somehow already in a relationship with her... and if you're not... then they're just not someone you could really respect. Without trying.

And lastly, lets go into the emotional bias route since you pointed that out earlier. There are three main emotional biases at work here.

1) many men feel themselves deprived, meanwhile sluts are an obviously sexually privileged class. Resentment is part and parcel of privilege.

2) Current and former incels resent their own rejection by sluts even when they were having sex with (in their eyes) "any loser with a dick", so they move to disliking them as a response. Very typical of people. Mature TRPers move past this resentment. BP men hurt by this never leave this resentment.

3) Following from point 2, Men do not like the concept of AF/BB. It is viscerally disturbing. Men fear it. Its ok if a wife is an asexual. But if she was sexually open with anyone else and is only this way with you... all hell is going to break loose. I used to be on the RP IRC a few months ago and one day some guy with a long story came on. He broke down into tears during it(or at least typed like an emotional man). Basically, he wasted the first 30 years of his life being a sexual incel. And the next 15 years married to a woman to whom he felt like he was nothing but a textbook betabucks. His life was over, he said, and it had been nothing but misery. We had to talk him out of suicide. But you know the kicker? What he eventually updated us as his alternative was... revenge.

Fearing that you could be used like that or believing that all sluts will eventually do that(what else will they do) makes you dislike them in advance.

[–]yaseedog will hunt1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago* (15 children) | Copy Link

Christ you are condescending

"Evolved response", resentment, jealousy, and "visceral disturbance" are all referring back to one thing: emotion. This is all I want from TRP: no furious attempts at rationalizing or smug metaphors about shitty locks vs. master keys, but actual acknowledgement of the fact that the male reaction to sluttery is about feelings, not logic.

You are of course free to snark to your heart's content and dismiss me out of hand but I really think the reason that it's so hard to twist this admission out of some people here is because they've bought wholesale into the redpill idea that men are supposed to be rationally motivated in a way that women are not. They desperately want sluts-vs-studs to be logically justifiable because if not, their view of themselves as comparatively logical beings is under threat. Thoughts?

[–]We_Are_LegionAutumn Red1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago* (14 children) | Copy Link

I'm actually not being snarky or condescending. Or at least not intentionally. Was it the part where I used your username or the part with the ^TM ? Removed. For the use of "you"... well, I don't know what to say. Usually people can detach themselves from the groups being hypothetically addressed. The group here, if you'll read, being women. A group which doesn't take kindly to being addressed at all I think :)

but I really think the reason that it's so hard to twist this admission out of some people here is because they've bought wholesale into the redpill idea that men are supposed to be rationally motivated in a way that women are not.

Really? I wrote it out plain as day once you specified you didnt really mean the word shaming. Plus, I've never seen a slut thread not mention it. Nor any thread on /r/TheRedPill, or any meta discussion of it on /r/AlreadyRed. Nor any manosphere blog that mentions sluts. Not even the ostensibly Rational Male.

I think this is a clear as day strawman. RP inherently recognizes that nothing about relationships is logical. Or right or wrong. It says that it just is. Because that is what worked.

Perhaps you were looking for something like this sentence: "Past sluttiness is a good predictor for future sluttiness". I included it in the very first sentence of my reply(by comparison to PUAs).

But then, logically, you can say even that is stupid. Why care about being cheated on? Birth control exists.

But then everything is stupid. Why do we care if boobs are large or small or the shape? Why do people want babies? Nothing's rational about relationships! What the fuck is this love bullshit anyway? Why do we suddenly start liking all those stupid fucking people when we "fall in love"?

Hell, why do we want to live? Conversely, why do we want to want to not-live? Why is being ill-mannered bad? What's so logical about anything human's do?

The closest explanation in my mind is that some things feel good so we pursue them and others don't, so we avoid them. Putting your hand on fire or being a failure gives you pain. Your feelings tell you you're on the wrong path. Kissing a girl, or achieving something or making a friend, your feelings tell you you're on the right path. We apparently make all our judgement on this basis.

Why draw the line at disliking sluts?

Now I"ve given you a few answers. I'd really like one from you too.

[–]AFormidableContenderPurple Pill Man0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]yaseedog will hunt-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]AFormidableContenderPurple Pill Man1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

If gut reaction is enough, why do things like the master key/shitty lock metaphor get so much play?

Because your side (women, BP'ers) demand a rationale and declare basic, biological gut repulsion as an inadequate rationale for "slut shaming".

OP posted it independently because he wanted to combat what he felt was a fundamental misunderstanding of TRP's stance. You may not care (although your volume of comments here suggests differently), but others do.

I don't actually have any real idea what point you are trying to make here. Like I said...TRP people give rationalizations because BP'ers demand them, not because we are desperate to rationalize something. OP obviously though BP'ers were being unfair and misunderstanding whatever position he posits in regards to female partner counts.

[–]yaseedog will hunt1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]AFormidableContenderPurple Pill Man-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

"Shaming", yes; attraction, no. Like TRP, I more or less believe that attraction isn't negotiable. I also don't talk shit about beardless guys because my personal taste runs to lumberjacks

Perhaps if beardless men where undermining their own masculinity, demonstrating a lack of self control, and illiciting behavior suggestive of poor chances of sexual fidelity to a committed partner, you'd feel very differently about beardless guys.

A man's beard is window dressing. A woman's sexual partner history is a very significant indicator of the type of person he is. A beard is a false dichotomy. A woman's sexual partner count, would be a better dichotomy with the way a man treats a waiter, or his mother (to steal some examples from female culture)

Buddy no one is demanding redpillers come here and defend their viewpoints.

Buddeh, You must be new here.

OP thinking BP'ers were being unfair is exactly my point: being maligned as incoherent misogynists really does bug some of you

I can almost entirely assure you it bothers absolutely no one...The moment someone declares me a misogynist, instead of engaging me in a real discussion, I know they have nothing to say worth listening to.

[–]yaseedog will hunt1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]AFormidableContenderPurple Pill Man0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Would you say a man's sexual history is a significant indicator of the type of person he is? Of future fidelity especially?

Yes, but not his fidelity. His fidelity is more a personal choice. Women are far more likely to make emotional, attraction driven decisions, and rationalize their infidelity later. When men cheat, it's usually because they actually just wanted to, and made the choice to fuck someone else, usually to feel like "they still got it". Women tend to cheat as an act of upgrading sexual partners, or via emotional ....manipulation isn't really the right word, but...I dunno, it's like if you poke a tiger...it will eventually bite you. Women are like that...make them feel good and sexually charged enough and when that switch is flipped you can make a woman do just about anything. I've seen it and it's scary as fuck.

So you're implying what...BPers dragged you all here kicking and screaming? You're all just here for the lulz and no one ever loses their cool over their pet sub getting lumped in with hate groups? No red piller worth his salt would give two shites what a non-initiate had to say? (If you really try not to personalize this, I think you'll find these questions a lot easier to answer)

I'm saying RP'ers would be perfectly happy to say "women who fuck a lot are disgusting sluts. Fuck them." and leave it at that.

People come here because they are volunteering to have their beleifs challenged. You seem to be under the impress RP men aren't "owning" their dislike of slutty women. I have no idea how anyone comes to that conclusion. It's probably the most emotional filled and unapologetic belief TRP has.

No, TRP's don't care if people claim they hate women. Why would they care if TRP is working for them? Or concurrently, not working but still grants them insight they would have otherwise not had? Lots of us hate women. Who cares? How we feel about women says nothing as to the validity of the things we believe.

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I was never charged. So they were never retracted and never counted in the would be studies; only because I protect myself. Had I not been able to show them the footage straight away and texts then I have no doubt I would be lead away in cuffs.

First one was a girl who cheated on her partner and figured it must have been my fault the morning after.

The second one wanted to hang about at my place for an hour to have a Beta Orbiter pick her up and drive her home, I had to leave for work and essentially had to throw her out as politely as I could. I only assume she couldn't countenance looking like a well fucked bar slut (which is what she was) disheveled for her male BFF to come get her like that.

The third to be fair wasn't a straight allegation it was more of a bullshit 2XC thing akin to.

Last night was wild.

Yeah it was.

I'm not sure I was thinking straight.

Ok.

Yeah I was really out of it, I was asking my friends and I don't remember anything really. You shouldn't take advantage of me like that that's pretty serious...........................

I don't remember half of it either but if you want you can come watch the tape I took of us both. I was pulling your hair and you were saying Mod--i--Fied--Hack--Ware---fuuc----ckkkk---meeee--eee-eee-eee you sound pretty funny.

Obviously the implication being character assassination or something more serious.

We'll never know because this is all internet points but to /u/cesiacho below I firmly believe he hasn't slept with more than 10 women. When you get to the 50+ stage you pick up some bat shit crazy people unfortunately that are maybe mentally ill, maybe having a rough time in their life or maybe just spiteful but no; the 3 allegations is not a judgement call on my character. I'm the guy holding doors longer than I should for women, letting you cut in line and getting thoughtful gifts for family for Christmas. But thanks for calling me a rapist anyway you cunt, you prove my point entirely.

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[–]idhavetochargehumanist, devils advocate0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Maybe it is victim blaming. It probably is. I have known many men that have went their whole lives without any hint of a rape allegation. I have known many women that have went their whole lives without making any allegations themselves.

So to do a bit of victim blaming. It is a bad thing because it often helps nothing about the situation. But in some cases it can. I will say that you may have poor judgement and have ignored some major red flags or failed to realize they were there. But you are not alone in that. I have had abusive relationships ( physical and mentally abusive). I also had poor judgement and failed to see or flat out ignored the red flags. I never once made any reports ( and rape was not any part of the abuse) but i could have and should have left sooner and/or reported some of the violence.

Hopefully you, like me, have learned enough to avoid bad people.

There are two types of victim blaming. One is bad. ' you made me do this to you, you deserved it' and good even if hurtful ' how could you let that happen, why didnt you run the other way as soon as it started?' One just blames, the other lets you know you could have made another choice. Being a victim of someone you trust and care about is something that is hard to deal with for the victim. ( i am leaving out stranger attacks since this has no bearing on your case). Sometimes giving that trust is a mistake you could have changed.

If these women were pretty much strangers, you were careless. If you were very close, you probably ignored some huge issues just like i and a whole lot of others have done.

Do not say awalt though, because it is an excuse and is an attempt to absolve your own self from your own agency. Most women have not been raped or even thought about making a false report. So if you are truly blameless, you may want to figure out why you are drawn to women that would do this. Or why you do not bother protecting yourself a bit by learning who someone is before this has a chance of happening again.

Two abusive relationships for me. I have worked hard to understand why they did it, and why i allowed it. I cannot say i will be able to always protect myself, but at least i have given myself a better chance of avoiding repeating my own mistakes. I know some was out of my control, but i could have walked away before i did and saved myself a lot of grief. And even though i went through a lot of shit, i still do not think * all men* are the same.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

The girls were:

2 random hotties from a club.

1 friend of a social circle at University.

Each one was a drunken encounter. My problem with this is that reverse the roles and society is tripping over itself to help the female and in fact there is just a whole circlejerk fanfare about girls getting raped on campus. Girls are getting drunk and fucking around on campus and it's changed into saving girls from themselves whilst telling them nothing they do is wrong.

Being the Terper shit lord that I am I don't expect society to look out for me since I am the disposable sex. Had I not been proactive I would possibly be in prison, disowned by my family and been fired as is I walk away with "Huh - is that right? Guess you're kinda creepy".

Had it been a female, the first person to say "Maybe you shouldn't be so slutty?" or words to that effect would have already been banned off this sub.

I understand the double standard and work with it, TBP states there is no double standard and that we're all equal and the just rule of law is for all. Reality is very different.

For what it's worth I think you are entirely right, the victim nearly always bears some responsibility. My point here though is demonstrating red pill truths of the gender dynamics in society. I was very nearly almost ruined over bullshit, and at best I can walk away with scratches on my character. Reverse the situation and society bends it's knee. We're second class citizens and my earlier vitriol is that these women committed a crime, but they were let off because they were "upset" or whatever. If I make up charges because I got emotional about something I would expect to be prosecuted, it is what it is, I'll keep filming and moving forwards.

God help the ill equipped blue pill nice guy though that gets tagged by either one of the first two. He would get taken apart.

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The low conviction rate – around 7% of reported rapes resulted in convictions during 2011/12 – is not significantly out of line with other common crimes such as burglary, she maintains.

Writing in the Oxford Journal of Legal Studies, Reece confronts the supposedly widely held belief that "victim blaming" makes it difficult to convict those who carry out attacks.

The truth, she suggests, is far simpler. Unlike assault, which often takes place in public and sometimes within sight of CCTV cameras, rape is an offence for which there are usually no independent witnesses.

Reece told the Guardian: "I don't think most people are subject to rape myths. I'm not saying that no one [is influenced by] them but the vast majority of jurors, police, prosecutors and judges have decent attitudes.

"Rape myths are used as a convenient label to explain away low conviction rates. Rape is a very serious crime, but I don't think it right to focus on [low conviction rates] as a problem particular to rape.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/mar/25/rape-myths-low-conviction-rate

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My issue with people who use this as a counter-argument, is unless you live in a place with some pretty heavy social programming, or voluntarily are apart of some type of community that praises (fetishizes) a trait betas may have just as much of as alphas, or may even be more attractive than alphas for whatever reason, it tends to be the people like you who are discounting the factor of significance TRP works, via the odd exceptions you're seeing where it doesn't. I've seen beta guys get girls. I've seen hot girls fall for guys who could never pick her up at a bar in a million years. I've met girls who were more mature than me by a large margin. I've met girls who were not conventionally attractive who lots of people wanted to fuck because their personality was on point.

These are not the general. These are the exceptions born from particular circumstances or luck that cannot be recreated at will.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

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[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

If I am not mistaken, the origin of that acronym was a reaction to bluepillers entering the discourse after another particularly outrageous story and arguing that "not all women are like that" - AWALT was a quip on that and a measure to shut these complaints down.

Also, most guys who enter TRP have operated under the misconception that women are good (warm-hearted, empathetic, straightforward, lucid, deep etc.) as their default and that those who are shallow, self-centered, arrogant, delusional, manipulative etc. were the deviation from the norm, some remote outliers (the inverse goes for men - they were crude, immature, violent, superficial, selfish by default and the only way to be a semi-bearable human being was to control yourself and be a nice guy).

AWALT is some sort of hearty "fuck you" towards people who still think like that. Those who take it literally (and they admittedly do exist in no small numbers)... well, they aren't here.

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[–]AFormidableContenderPurple Pill Man0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (37 children) | Copy Link

No, "different" is nebulous. It means nothing when you say that.

Two alpha males can be entirely different and yet completely similar in so far as social value is concerned. A weak, beta male, whilst different, will not be anymore attractive to anymore people because of his differences; he's more likely to be unattractive to most people for not being similar enough to the alphas you actually fuck.

You're using "different" as a social tool to evade having to commit to any sort of actual position. If you mean "different" as in one woman likes blonde lawyers, and another woman likes brunette business men, Ok, sure whatever. You can have that, but if you mean different as in one woman likes overweight, jobless, stinky dudes, and one woman loves guys who never leave the gym and make millions, then no, you can't have that because that's not a coherent proposition.

I would bet good money if we analyzed all the men you've been attracted to and had sexual relationships with, they'd all be fairly similar, and live up the TRP's qualifiers for alpha men. Saying "no, because everyone is different" simply comes off, at least to me, like a weak cop-out response so the speaker can pretend like Pepsi and Coke aren't still just different brands of colas whilst what we're trying to talk about is whether people enjoy cola, or juice, or tea, or coffee or wine, or beer...

Not robots in the least. Infinite. Unpredictable.

You should read more Harris.

TRP and PUA work on some. Not all. Because we 're all different.

TRP and PUA work, predicatably, on the people you'd want it to work on predictably. If men wanted the types of women TRP and PUA didn't work on, you could make a method for that too.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (36 children) | Copy Link

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You yourself have no arguments of substance. I tell you that I observe non- RP behavior in the majority of people and your answer is either it's unnatural or it actually is RP behavior.

That's ok . Everything around me tells me that RP is a crackpot theory. I'm not worried about convincing you that it's a bunch of BS any more than I'm worried about convincing you about the existence of gravity. There's enough around you to show you RP is baloney. If you don't see it, me telling you that I've seen it won't help, and you have to rationalize what I've seen in order for your theory to work. (Which should be a red flag for you but oh well)

You need it to be true because you don't want to take responsibility for your inability to relate to women or find a meaningful relationship. Along comes a theory that takes that blame off of you, tells you that women are incapable of relating to you and that you won't find the kind of meaningful relationship you're looking for because AWALT. It makes you feel better about your issues, and provides a temporary, superficial solution, which looks to me like something similar to drug addiction (ability to have sex with some women).

However, the underlying problem is still there, and festering.

[–]AFormidableContenderPurple Pill Man0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (32 children) | Copy Link

You yourself have no arguments of substance. I tell you that I observe non- RP behavior in the majority of people and your answer is either it's unnatural or it actually is RP behavior.

That's ok . Everything around me tells me that RP is a crackpot theory. I'm not worried about convincing you that it's a bunch of BS any more than I'm worried about convincing you about the existence of gravity. There's enough around you to show you RP is baloney. If you don't see it, me telling you that I've seen it won't help, and you have to rationalize what I've seen in order for your theory to work. (Which should be a red flag for you but oh well)

I don't really have to rationalize anything because as we've already established, you've offered nothing worth investigating over the course of several weeks I've known you. I really don't know why you're even here and this entire paragraph is redundant; you think I'm a crackpot, and I think you're a crackpot. No one is hiding this. You may have enough proof that RP is false, I have more than enough proof RP is obviously true.

You need it to be true because you don't want to take responsibility for your inability to relate to women or find a meaningful relationship. Along comes a theory that takes that blame off of you, tells you that women are incapable of relating to you and that you won't find the kind of meaningful relationship you're looking for because AWALT. It makes you feel better about your issues, and provides a temporary, superficial solution, which looks to me like something similar to drug addiction (ability to have sex with some women).

This would kind of approach being logically coherent if there weren't a good demographic of RP men who've found success with women. It also contradicts your original argument of people being different and liking different things as if your above paragraph where true, your two arguments would be mutually exclusive, so you've now proved yourself wrong. You are correct that most men find TRP out of a frustration or inability to connect or attract women in a meaningful way, however, you've conveniently ignored that they cannot do this because they aren't attractive in the first place. If they're not making connections with women, women clearly don't want to connect with them as they're the rejects in the first place, so whether or not they accept TRP or whatever it is you think is a superior world view it wouldn't make any difference, and of course, they're the rejects because they are too disimilar to men deemed attractive, which contradicts your original argument, so we've now come full circle as to how your three arguments don't make any sense, and I wouldn't think you've thought of a response to that, have you...?

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Yep. Our genes are very similar to the orangutangs'.

And perhaps because of this they have behavior that is more human then most other animals (eg: tool use, alpha males - ha ha).

Naturally we have no problem scientifically generalizing the behavior of entire species of animals, but human behavior [to social justice warriors] does not justify the same level of scientific scrutiny despite the immense genetic similarity in our species. And despite no real evidence that our genetic drift occurs any faster then that of an orangutang [sic].

Largest time scale does not mean who a woman chooses to have a hook up with on a Saturday night.

Evolutionary psychology can not only explain what causes a woman to act the way she does, it can explain why women choose to hook up IN GENERAL. TRP is entirely based on this. It's why it works - it throws away PC notions of human's specialness amogst other lifeforms and looks directly at the biological basis for sex itself. And that's why it works so well.

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Some of the critiques....

Women are illogical. This is a consistent tenant, so to speak, of the Red Pill. I just can't for the life of me wrap my head around it. It doesn't fit in to my experiences and my worldview. I understand, it's not meant to be misogynistic. To the Red Pill, this idea is equivalent to saying a black person is black. You are just pointing out what is. You wouldn't call that person racist. On the Red Pill when someone says "Women are illogical. AWALT." And another person replies "well, that is it a bit misogynistic, don't you think?" It's encouraged to report to the mods the person who disagrees with idea "women are illogical."
Most of the Red Pill members are very bitter are very beta (not that there is anything wrong with being beta). And as much as I support them in their efforts, I just very frankly can't identify with them. During the summer, I was hooking up with a fair share of girls. I would go on the Red Pill from time to time, like a lot of the members who just got out a LTR. I enjoyed getting some advice and tips on dating. I remember someone posted one of the articles about how 80% of the women hook up with 20% of the men. In my head, I was thinking "sweet, alpha bro high five" (at the least, staying positive when single after coming out of a LTR). But then I get to the comment section and it's like "f-ing sloots. AWALT." (120 up-votes). Next comment is like "...and this why I hate women." (100 up-votes). As I'm reading the comments and looking at the up-votes, I was thinking, wait a minute, did you read the article? This is good news. Why are you guys complaining? The women are hooking up with us. The alphas... Right? We're the alphas?" Oh fuck... we're not the alphas.

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Women are illogical.

What this means exactly is certainly debated. I've debated with other TRPers about this myself.

Logic is not the only means of "thinking", nor is it consistently the most effective. It's completely dependent on what it is you're trying to think about. Emotional thinking has endured for thousands/millions of years from people to animals - clearly it's an effective way of thinking.

Logical thinking is brittle - a single fact in your logic being wrong can cause you to come to the exact opposite conclusion of the actual truth. Logical thinking also needs to know all the facts to be successful. In real life you almost never know all the facts, and often extremely important facts are missing.

I've seen plenty of guys (and some women) try to apply logic where it is a terrible fit and fail disastrously.

I do think that women are far more illogical than men. But I contrast that with saying that men doing a lot of "sounds logical" things that are extremely stupid for their situation.

Most of the Red Pill members are very bitter

Ironically the first piece of "game" advice a friend gave me - that was so accurate when I tried it out that it convinced me that there must be something to at least some of game - was "bitterness is the least attractive emotion to women".

Then you go to TRP, and there's a ton of bitterness.

As I'm reading the comments and looking at the up-votes, I was thinking, wait a minute, did you read the article? This is good news. Why are you guys complaining? The women are hooking up with us. The alphas... Right? We're the alphas?" Oh fuck... we're not the alphas.

Hahahaha - well now, you are so spot on there.

[–]ArkiF0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I do think that women are far more illogical than men.

Men and women's thought patterns are not that different. Put them to the same task in order to achieve the same outcome, and that would be seen. Their brains are wired slightly differently but not enough to say men are logical thinkers and women are emotional thinkers. Women are more logical than emotional. The biggest differences would be coming from the different experiences of men and women and the different filters because of those experiences.

It's probably a shame we're not all more emotional thinkers. As you said, it can be very useful. I'm not a very emotional thinker myself and I try to check myself for this in day to day life.

Ironically the first piece of "game" advice a friend gave me - that was so accurate when I tried it out that it convinced me that there must be something to at least some of game - was "bitterness is the least attractive emotion to women". Then you go to TRP, and there's a ton of bitterness.

True. But it's all women's fault men are bitter. According to TRP.

[–]RedPill115-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Men and women's thought patterns are not that different. Put them to the same task in order to achieve the same outcome, and that would be seen.

The task is very different for women dating vs men dating, regardless of how much the internet tries to tell you it isn't. It's like comparing being an auto mechanic to being a sales rep. They're very, very different roles that takes rather different thinking.

Also, on the specific topic of dating - it's not like men are logical either. Saying women aren't logical when it comes to dating wouldn't be saying anything people don't already know if there wasn't a whole group acting offended at it.

True. But it's all women's fault men are bitter. According to TRP.

Lol, there's definitely a strong thread of that in TRP. I think the "you're not allowed to talk about how bitter dating can be if you're a man" is the other side of the same coin from feminism though.

[–]southwer2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]nomdplumeFormer Alpha5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What do you think of all of the discussions being led by RPW, especially on this sub? They obviously consider themselves to be "Red Pill", but, from what I've seen, they are dealing mostly with LTRs and marriages, not the bar scene and hookup scene.

I seriously don't think that Red Pill is at all only about the casual sex scene. I think that misconception comes from the prevailing interest of the demographics on TRP (who tend to be either young or recently divorced and looking to just get easy NSA sex) rather than from Red Pill itself.

I believe strongly in a lot of Red Pill (and have seen it work for a couple decades now, both in person and confirmed through various academic studies and writings), and don't identify at all with what most TRPers are doing (I'm not cruising bars looking to get laid or what have you).

As a matter of fact, I think most of "Red Pill" isn't even all that applicable to the quick hookup thing. That's much more PUA territory, which a lot of Red Pill source material doesn't even reference.

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This is a common argument that I do not buy. I'm a 26 yr old man and when I was trying to figure out girls from the ages of like...14 to 24 none of this information was anywhere.

Yeah, no, I found all of the "public information" to be the opposite of this.

Being masculine was bad. Working out with weights was only for losers and girls didn't like it. Teasing women was offensive for a man to do. It was offensive for you to stay away from needy girls with problems - it was your responsibility as a man to "be there" for her and "listen to her problems". (That philosophy by itself destroyed my first relationship, I finally changed when the second ex-girlfriend was like "I know you're supposed to listen to my problems and that makes you a good guy, but...I think maybe in retrospect you do that to much").

It was absolutely unnacceptable to straight up not take crap from someone. Unless everyone agreed first that that person was an asshole, then it was ok, but otherwise you had to consider how they felt first.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

This is a common argument that I do not buy. I'm a 26 yr old man and when I was trying to figure out girls from the ages of like...14 to 24 none of this information was anywhere.

I am 34 and can confirm 100%. It was especially crass pre-internet.

It always baffles me to read about "common sense" and "public information" here on r/purplepilldebates.

I am not saying that they are wrong. I envy them for a different upbringing or different kind of social circle or whatever it was that made them understand the game earlier and without pua and trp.

Being masculine was bad.

Yeah. It was basically "your task is to proof that you are not like other guys. Not like a typical man. Proof this and it will make you successful with women."

Working out with weights was only for losers and girls didn't like it.

I started when I was about 18/19 years old. I think I was the only one of my age group at my school who went to the gym. I didn't exactly get hate for it, but yes, there was a lot of "be careful that you don't get too big. Women don't like that." (That was incredibly funny, because I was an ectomorph who needed to put a lot of work in just to look normal.).

Comparing the gym crowd of today and back then is incredible. The crowd today is much younger and has much better results which I think is because of easier access to information on proper lifting and nutrition. (Of course it could just be that it's different gyms...but I don't think so). And it seems like there's really a shift in mentality. Guys doing something that actually makes them more attractive to women.

Teasing women was offensive for a man to do.

Exactly. Never say something that would make a girl uncomfortable. Be a gentlemen.

It was offensive for you to stay away from needy girls with problems - it was your responsibility as a man to "be there" for her and "listen to her problems".

Absolutely! "You can't judge her. You have to support her."

It was absolutely unnacceptable to straight up not take crap from someone.

Turn the other cheek. Understand that if someone treats you badly, he probably has issues. Or a bad day. Be understanding. Maybe you did something to provoke him? Did you do something to provoke him*.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

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Yeah...to be honest I understand people who are disgusted by r/theredpill if they don't have anecdata of their own to back it up. If you haven't seen it in reallife, why should you trust trp?

I have to admit I am on the misogynistic side right now.

A lot of stuff happened all at once and nothing I read on r/trp was theory/musings for me. I have seen terrible paternity fraud, multiple false rape accusations, relationships destroyed by former promiscuity, great guys who are decent looking, but virgins at 30+, divorce rape, guys who basically sacrified themselves for single mothers and were shat on, male friendships destroyed by women, AF/BB, cheating without any sign of remorse, no, they were bragging about it, women who showed disgust at men who acted beta...

I seriously need to reply to the comments you linked to, but that will take time.

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Those things have never been the case. Who told you that stuff?

It seems like you're not interested in what actually happened, but rather using different techniques to try to attack it.

I grew up with it. My friends grew up with it. I can watch major shoes like The Big Bang Theory or How I Met Your Mother and see repeated references to it.

Since you're posting like you have any idea, I'll say that you have no idea what you're talking about. Just a few years ago I went to a party, a girl was going on about how "that's not the case" on this subject, then halfway through she stops - because she looks around at her own guy friends and they are nodding along with me.

Who told you that stuff?

It was everywhere. Oprah was probably the biggest standard bearer for "it's very important to list to a woman's problems", I couldn't even begin to list all the other sources for it. Everything else was just common knowledge somehow. Just look at tv shows like Saved By The Bell. The skinny guy was dating the girl everyone wanted to date, the jock guy with muscles was dating the less attractive girl and if I remember right the story goes that they don't last after high school or something.

I don't really have the time to decompose history, especially since you'll like just declare that it's not true somehow, but it was a constant theme most of the people I met were either part of or at least familiar with.

[–]GridReXXit be like that0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]We_Are_LegionAutumn Red6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

Being masculine was encouraged? Bullshit.

Being a teasing, selfish ass if that's what you genuinely wanted to do would have been encouraged? Openly stating and pursuing sexual intentions was encouraged? Rejecting women for the inadequacies you don't like, encouraged? Being dominant with women? Leading her? OWNING her? Any of that... was encouraged?

Bullshit.

Romance was and is a guessing game for most people. Excepting those "who just get it", like natural alphas. Or those who have no active part to play, Or those who have no active part to play, except to let their feelings drive, judging the attractiveness and trustworthiness of various suitors, like women.

The rules of the game for everyone, the above two included included, are still obscure and are not discussed. Ask the average BP man on the street, and he will tell you the vapours that passes for knowledge to him. It's not a case of me rejecting his ideas. Its that he has none. Except that romance and love is something magic that just happens when the time is right. He is like a mindless particle, waiting for the inevitable effective collision. He knows nothing of angles and energies of approach.

All he has to sate himself are platitudes. The stuff weak, poor and powerless people use to comfort themselves.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Can't upvote this enough. If men truly got what women wanted (and if women weren't frustratingly opaque and also misleading about it), there wasn't an abundance of jokes like that one:

A young man was walking along one of Southern California's sandy beaches with his surf board. He suddenly spots this bottle which has recently washed up on the beach. It's obvious it's been tossed around for a long time. He picks up the bottle and notices that it still has the cork intact. So, being curious as to what may be inside, he manages to get the cork out and out pops a Genie.

After expressing profound appreciation for having been let out of the bottle, the Genie grants his benefactor the classic, "one wish" and it will be yours. Being an avid surfer, it doesn't take him long to say, "I've always wanted to surf Hawaii, but I get seasick on ships and I'm afraid to fly. Would you build me a bridge to Hawaii?"

The Genie replies: "Do you know what you are asking for? Do you know how long the bridge would have to be? Think of the enormous challenges for that kind of undertaking. The supports required to reach the bottom of the Pacific! The concrete and steel it would take! It will nearly exhaust several natural resources. And the maintenance of that bridge! No, think of another wish."

The man said OK and tried to think of a really good wish. Finally, he said, "I've been married and divorced four times. My wives always said that I don't care and that I'm insensitive. So, I wish that I could understand women ... know how they feel inside and what they're thinking when they give me the silent treatment ... know why they're crying, know what they really want when they say nothing ... know how to make them truly happy ... I really want to understand women and how they think!"

After a long sigh, the Genie responds: "Would you like that bridge with two lanes or four?"

[–]GridReXXit be like that-2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]myfatbrokethewallNon-Red Pill0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm a 26 yr old man and when I was trying to figure out girls from the ages of like...14 to 24 none of this information was anywhere.

Not even "working out" and "eating well"? That having a good body is a part of attractiveness seems obvious, and some combination of working out and eating well is how to get and/or maintain a good body.

Or how about "being masculine"? Strength is an aspect of that, you didn't think that being strong was more attractive than being weak? (And I'm talking about various types of strengths, including psychological.)

Did you pay attention to the boys/men girls liked, whether real or fictional, and what traits they had?

When you were trying to figure out girls, did you ever read or watch something directed at women (like say Pride and Prejudice) and see what traits the romantic male lead had? Or how about reading the "porn for women" style romances?

[–]AFormidableContenderPurple Pill Man1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Not even "working out" and "eating well"? That having a good body is a part of attractiveness seems obvious, and some combination of working out and eating well is how to get and/or maintain a good body.

Men are not women. Having an acceptable body isn't a free ticket to pound town.

Or how about "being masculine"? Strength is an aspect of that, you didn't think that being strong was more attractive than being weak?

Masculinity is strongly discouraged. Maybe less so today, but most certainly back then. Most of my female friends claim the guys on Men's Health are disgusting, and pretty much every aspect of masculinity is demonized in our culture. Furthermore "being masculine" is nebulous and not useful unless it's coming from a man who knows anything about actually being masculine and can communicate it which men did not have until the early 2000's when PUA as an underground movement took off.

Furthermore, women did not discriminate between jacked guys and skinnier guys, so there is no obvious connection between giant muscles, girls, or the quality of girls. Women are in love with male porn star James Deen and he's the least jacked porn star in the business.

Did you pay attention to the boys/men girls liked, whether real or fictional, and what traits they had?

Yes. I had 3 male friends who were all exceptionally skilled with women. The universal trait they all shared was that they treated women badly and they were naturally pretty boys. I was not naturally a pretty boy and obviously treating girls badly is counter productive and it seemed to make more sense to young men and to me as a young man that women liked them in spite of being treated badly by them, than because they treated them badly, especially when women spent all their time telling their male friends how much they hate being treated like that, which leads to Nice Guy^tm 'isms like "wait till she sees im not like that! Then she'll totally love me and see that he's an asshole!"

In fact, one of the three guys was a close friend and was best with women. He used to be able to split up familes, ruin friendships, would cheat on his girlfriends regularly, etc. I asked him one day how he makes girls want him so badly, and his literal response was "I dunno. Talk to them until they like you.". Men who are good with women are no more help than women most of the time.

When you were trying to figure out girls, did you ever read or watch something directed at women (like say Pride and Prejudice) and see what traits the romantic male lead had? Or how about reading the "porn for women" style romances?

There was no discernable reason for any of the choices women made other than the man being attractive, which either required genetic lottery, or years in a gym. It wasn't until I joined the PUA community that the manner in which women treat men, and the sexual choices women make began to make sense.

[–]ArkiF-2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]AFormidableContenderPurple Pill Man0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

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[–]AFormidableContenderPurple Pill Man1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

So, you have several things wrong with your porpositions here.

Firstly, you seem to be under the impression that simply because information exists, that's it's automatically disseminated to the masses. I'm sure finding the process and procedure for neural surgeory is would not be difficult. Why are you not a qualified brain surgeon?

Second, a search for information doesn't de facto yeild results

Third, between Men's Health and female friends, most young men are going to trust their female friends.

I didn't say that at any time. Women don't know how some women behave around men. Do men blame fathers too? Because fathers would have been advising their sons to be gentlemen around women and not giving them advice on other things, such as flirting etc.

You're assuming children learn from their parents. They do not. At least, not in this day and age. Most people's parents don't tell them anything in particular about anything. Kids know more than their parents most of the time. And yes, RP men blame beta fathers just as much as women.

[–]ArkiF0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm sure finding the process and procedure for neural surgeory is would not be difficult. Why are you not a qualified brain surgeon?

We're talking about simple things here - not brain surgery. If it required going to college for years and then specializing for more years just to go on your first date - I'm not sure how anyone ever got together. I don't know how many young men ask their female friends for dating advice, but I'm sure they get a lot of dates through their female friends.

You're assuming children learn from their parents. They do not. At least, not in this day and age. Most people's parents don't tell them anything in particular about anything. Kids know more than their parents most of the time. And yes, RP men blame beta fathers just as much as women.

When you're a parent yourself, you'll come to realize how much kids learn and absorb from their parents. I very much doubt kids know more than their parents.

RP men blame beta fathers as much as women? Good to know.

[–]AFormidableContenderPurple Pill Man0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

There is so much here that's like...out of touch with men, social dynamics, and just how people work, I'm not even sure how to begin commenting on it, or if I even should/can...

I don't know how many young men ask their female friends for dating advice, but I'm sure they get a lot of dates through their female friends.

Asking female friends for dating advice is not useful if the advice is poor, which is quite clearly, and always is.

When you're a parent yourself, you'll come to realize how much kids learn and absorb from their parents. I very much doubt kids know more than their parents.

It's quite a well known modern revelation that modern children get almost nothing from their parents and are raised, primarily, by their peer group, school, and culture.

If you don't think children rapidly outpace their parents in the modern information age, I mean....I don't even know where to begin debating that. That's like saying you disbelieve poor people can't just go get jobs anytime they want. It's like...you're just...wrong...but I can't demonstrate how wrong you are without going into another huge, tangential debate, and yet I know you won't accept "you're wrong", so I don't even know what to say, other than you're just wrong.

[–]ArkiF0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Asking female friends for dating advice is not useful if the advice is poor, which is quite clearly, and always is.

I didn't say it was useful - in fact, I made no comment on it either way.

It's quite a well known modern revelation that modern children get almost nothing from their parents and are raised, primarily, by their peer group, school, and culture.

Seriously?

If you don't think children rapidly outpace their parents in the modern information age, I mean....I don't even know where to begin debating that.

I'm confused as to how this discussion swapped from kids learning from their parents to the modern information age. Kids need to learn a lot more than just info tech when they're growing up.

I'm sure a LOT of kids have outpaced their parents, but certainly not all.

EDIT: to take out personal info.

[–]AFormidableContenderPurple Pill Man0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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Let me ask you this: Given these two options, which would you prefer?

A) BLUE PILL WAY: Talk to a woman as if pleasing her is the only thing that matters. Agree with everything she has to say, try really hard to get her to like you. Act like she's better than you, speak to her as if she's your superior - do NOT speak to her like she's a teenager. Ask her on a date.

B) RED PILL WAY - Speak down to her as if she could be a teenager. Its not meant to treat her like crap, its only meant to increase your self confidence and not appear needy. If you feel that talking to her like she's a teenager is misogynist, then imagine her in her underwear like you would if you had stage fright. Whatever you have to do to Knock her down a peg so that she wants to please you. Don't insult her though. Act like you have other things in life and you don't need a woman, you have options. Invite her out for a date.

Confirmation bias would say 99 times out of ten, the second way I mentioned is the smarter way to go.

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[–]ArkiF0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Let me ask you this: Given these two options, which would you prefer? A) BLUE PILL WAY: Talk to a woman as if pleasing her is the only thing that matters. Agree with everything she has to say, try really hard to get her to like you. Act like she's better than you, speak to her as if she's your superior - do NOT speak to her like she's a teenager. Ask her on a date. B) RED PILL WAY - Speak down to her as if she could be a teenager. Its not meant to treat her like crap, its only meant to increase your self confidence and not appear needy. If you feel that talking to her like she's a teenager is misogynist, then imagine her in her underwear like you would if you had stage fright. Whatever you have to do to Knock her down a peg so that she wants to please you. Don't insult her though. Act like you have other things in life and you don't need a woman, you have options. Invite her out for a date. Confirmation bias would say 99 times out of ten, the second way I mentioned is the smarter way to go.

B. often works with women. I'll hand you that on a plate (not an RP type plate). It's known as flirting. It's an age-old tradition. RP didn't invent it.

But it doesn't work exactly the way you state. That 'teenager' stuff and 'make her want to please you' stuff is way, way off.

Flirting requires being confident and making the other person laugh and gently teasing them. You put them in a fun, light frame of mind. You might say something slightly negative (which a good looking person doesn't hear often - they're more used to Option A. behaviour from the opposite sex.) You have to think fast and counter what they say with clever comebacks. If you're a man, be cute and masculine at the same time.

Watch old B&W movies and see men flirting with women.

Note: Flirting works well in LTRs too, as long as it's with each other.

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