Honest Signals: Why Caring Kills Attraction

thebadguy89 · 2019-10-08T18:05:08+00:00

Truer words were never spoken. In addition, a woman's words will often contrast polar opposite with their actions/feelings.

Words: "What's wrong baby? Just tell me everything, I'm here to listen."

True feeling: ~~"Omg, I thought you were a real man, instead you are here bitching to me?"~~ "Let me see if he is a pussy and I should leave sinking ship."

Words: "Why are you so selfish? You're treating me like shit when I do so much for you."

True feeling: "Are you a bitch and ready to submit to my whining, or are you going to disregard me like a proper man should?"

etc etc

OrzhovPalatine · 2019-10-08T17:26:03+00:00

Good good was about to say "Patrices whole thing is this"

Hells88 · 2019-10-09T00:06:34+00:00

Very good post. I learned this the hard way. I showed and told her how much I cared about her, and that pussy dried right up. She tried to friendzone me and told me that she wanted to date other people and if it doesn't work out we can get back together.

More ridiculous words have never been spoken. Long story short, I rejected the demotion to friendship, stopped contacting her but would respond of she reached out, then eventually ghosted her when she reached out months later with that "you've been on my mind, I've had successive dreams about you, just thought I should check on you" bullshit.

Tables turned. I burned the care I had for her out of necessity, and hers somehow grew back for me.

Good post man. You've articulated well what most of us have come to realize, but not yet put into words. Good on you.

555WeWolf · 2019-10-08T18:15:51+00:00

Honestly i never understood the "don't text her back immediately". When i see that i have a message, if i am not doing anything more important i will just pick up the phone and answer the damn text. The whole "wait at least twice the time she took to respond" to me is to much mental investment to think about "wait wait juuust a liiitle bit... now i need to reply", like wtf don't you have anything better to do?

JihadNinjaCowboy · 2019-10-08T19:50:17+00:00

And yes, it IS possible to do this while still not being a douche to the female. I do it. You can occasionally do stuff that shows you care, but it has to be moderated...

As soon as you start simping though, the vagina will dry up.

Its a win-win, though. The effort you put into productive things other than simping is effort that ironically will attract more females. Females don't love you for what you are, they love you for what you do and for what they think you can do for them. Consider hypergamy and Briffault's Law.

If you can earn a 6-figure income without working 80 hours a week, then you can still lay the pipe so they aren't fucking the pool boy. Everything in moderation, and balanced.

yomo86 · 2019-10-08T16:51:41+00:00

Honestly, being honest with my feelings towards women ie being a father figure not some sentimental crap, resulted always in a dried up pussy. Do not be me. Action not words are a man's tools.

nobody_thinks · 2019-10-09T00:46:33+00:00

so tired of posts where guys try to explain how women are divine angles sent to evaluate men for their reproductive fitness ... as if a woman's reproductive standards go beyond tingles and feelz. That is all. tingles and feelz. Get it through your head.

women could give a fuck about how you spend your time as long as you generate tingles and feelz. Plz try and understand this.

boomcheese44 · 2019-10-09T01:36:20+00:00

Just admit that being sexually attractive is more important than providing for her. Ultimately, woman want both, but sexual attraction will come first.

RPthrowaway123 · 2019-10-08T19:02:23+00:00

Good post. I've been doing this with the girl I'm seeing currently (after a hiatus, so yeah I've only got the one so far) and it's gone well so far. She's no-contact so far this week and I feel like she's testing to see what I'll do now. I've just been constantly reminding myself that she's shit testing here and I need to do other things, but man I forgot how hard that can be sometimes lol.

Shaman6624 · 2019-10-08T20:03:01+00:00

Not everything is a dichotomy. You can show her she isn't the most important thing in your life and still love her and tell her you love her.

musterdcheif · 2019-10-09T00:53:10+00:00

THIS THIS THIS THIS

I’ve been slipping by face timing a long distance plate constantly and for hours, I’ve always been the dom in the relationship but I started getting invested without noticing. I’d been answering all her calls, over complimenting her and even calling her without merit. Decided to mute all her notifications and remove her number, if she tries to get my attention I’ll answer but I’m not going to contact her otherwise (as much as I want to due to overinvestment)

MrAnderzon · 2019-10-08T18:16:36+00:00

Patrice O Neal back it again put him in the sidebar if he's not already

trueliberal1 · 2019-10-09T18:30:07+00:00

Why Caring Kills Attraction

Caring kills attraction in women because women wrongly perceive caring as an indication of low status and lack of options in the men that care. This is evolutionary baggage from the Stone Age.

In the Stone Age, a person would have at most a couple dozen possible sexual partners in their lifetime. Men had to acquire as many as possible to maximize the number of offspring they had so they could compete with the other men in their generation. Women could only have a few children in their lives so quantity did not matter. Nor did quality matter so much. What did matter was the perception of quality by the next generation of women. After all, a woman's daughters would be in the exact same boat as she was in, but a woman's sons would be in the same boat as the men she was considering.

This had two implications. The first is the sexy son hypothesis. The only way to guess at what the next generation of women would want is by using the sexual preferences of the current generation of women, and that was a very accurate proxy in a time when little to nothing changed. So by reproducing with the popular man, any sons a woman had would have similar genes and would likely be popular with the next generation of women and thus that woman would have many more grandchildren.

The second implication is an example of sexual exaggeration. Women who preferred popular men would pass on that preference to their daughters. This trait would amplify with time.

Both of these two implications created a problem for Stone Age women. How could they accurately assess a man's popularity? Evolution would provide many tools for doing that, one of which was to use caring as a proxy for low status. The idea is that if a man showed that he cared for a woman, that means he had few options and was attempting to maximize his chance of success with that one woman. Such a man would likely be low status because if he weren't, he would have many sexual opportunities and it would make more sense to spend as little time and effort with each woman so he could engage in intercourse with many.

A proxy does not have to be a good one for evolution to select for it. It merely must be better than chance. However, in modern times it is a lousy proxy as population densities and society complexities are vastly different from what they were in the Stone Age. Unfortunately, women's instincts and their hindbrain still cause them to strongly associate caring with low status and undesirability. This is why men must alternative between being a tolerable jerk and occasionally do something nice. This is also why when a bad boy does something slightly nice it counts a million times as much as something very nice does by a man who is typically nice.

Example at end of this video at 4 min on (art imitates life) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSGG6D-He9A

Nice Guys Or Bad Boys? nice guy = beta bucks bad boy = alpha fucks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMxJ8HYk5Ks

Always be a bad boy that once in while does something nice only to be aloof and uncaring again. This keeps her guessing and interested. It also serves to advertise to other women in the vicinity. Is this a stupid game that ultimately makes women miserable? Absolutely. You still need to play this game because women, being instinctual creatures, are too stupid to stop forcing men to play this game. Accept that women are that stupid and there is nothing you can do to change that. Even if you tell women about this stupid game and the rules, they will still demand that you play it. They know what the game is, but they cannot override their instincts.

Obediah_Stane · 2019-10-08T21:41:00+00:00

Exactly. You wanna bitch and show emotion and discuss your feelings? Then go talk to family and close male friends. Never show weakness to a woman.

cydestiny · 2019-10-09T02:52:59+00:00

Agreed. Well written.

This is a well known theory yet most still fell for it.

The mainly reason is because while they know that paying too much attention is bad, they didn't know why they pay too much attention and then resort to filling their day with plenty stuff to do or fill their mind with emptiness/loniless/negativity while waiting for the "grace period" to end so that can pay attention to the woman again.

The core problem is not that you have nothing going on in life, the problem is you prioritized a woman too much because you believed or is made to believe that she will bring you all the good stuff.

The solution is to live your own life and mind your own business. You can give your attention to a woman but do so only if you're consciously aware.

For example, you saw a woman in a beautiful sundress on instagram, and you like sundresses, leave her a genuine comment but not comment/liking every single post you see.

SadDoggo45 · 2019-10-09T04:40:13+00:00

So caring about women makes them less interested, and not caring makes them interested.

Man genuinely doesn't care, woman is attracted - that is a really shit deal for a woman, and mostly doesn't apply to the people here
Man cares, but acts like he doesn't - that is tedious

Then what is the point in looking for a woman if you need to either not care about her, or if you need to constantly keep your guard up not to slip up that you care?

Why would you even want a woman?

Otter_Limits · 2019-10-09T09:59:55+00:00

I understand the concept behind “whoever cares less wins”—that the more invested party has more to lose (makes perfect sense from a business perspective cough American companies capitulating to Chinese government tyranny and human rights abuse in exchange for access to their enormous consumer market cough)—but this doesn’t works in the context of a one-on-one romantic relationship. I mean, think about it: if the only way to keep a woman interested in you is to either not care or at least come across as caring less, then...what exactly are you doing?

This is the kind of thing you do with a business partner, not a spouse or girlfriend. What’s even the point of having a partner, if you have to spend the entire relationship purposefully being emotionally-distant, just to “keep her wondering”. Fantasy is not an infinite reservoir; lust (that’s what you’re working with, since you’ve basically admitted that commitment is a fool’s errand and relationships are worthless) can only be maintained for so long. It is logical to have a life mostly separate from your partner, in order to have independence, but this kind of “I need to keep her guessing”, where you deliberately expend energy to keep up the appearance of being more important than her, is mired in its own brand of irrational reasoning and false premises.

If the goal is to get laid with the least amount of f*cks given and effort used, just sleep with a hooker; there’s no need for investment and you achieve the desired result, probably more so since you’re not going out of your way to continually furnish an IDGAF attitude. Or does banging an escort not count, because there’s no presumption of dominance in that scenario and only losers pay for sex? You’re paying for it, one way or another—be it with cash or time—so the only truly relevant question at that point is “what form of currency will you pay with?”

mickenrorty · 2019-10-09T13:02:59+00:00

“Find someone they perceive to be better than them In everyway”

I don’t think it’s that complex, it’s merely someone who has perceived good reproductive genes, guys that have balls and don’t care are guys that have options due to power/muscles/good looks... and/or money.

ethical_pa · 2019-10-09T20:29:58+00:00

The real way to not care is not to just "DGAF, bro". The real way to not care is to have other shit in your life that matters to you. I promise your relationships will be much stronger if you have shit that matters to you besides her.

Yes... but also abundance. This doesn't necessarily mean immediately having other women in your life. But having the ability to attract high quality women is key. This is why they say that you have to keep your game tight even (especially?) when in a committed relationship. Once you lose the ability to attract women, she becomes the center of your life, and she'll resent you and hate you for it.

UnbreakableButts · 2019-10-10T00:00:59+00:00

Lie. Lie a lot. Lie about hooking up with someone hotter than her. Lie about some great job, friends, social status, just lie. You thinking they're smart enough to figure anything out is giving them way too much credit. This isn't an excuse to be lazy though. You should work hard and make good friends, have a job or business, and express yourself fully. But if you're working towards those things don't be honest with them, just lie. Do not have a conscious with a woman because they truly don't care about you, or are able to care about you the same way a man can care about women. To them, it's all about status and you're a stepping stone to the next best thing. As long as you're both having fun it's all good.

European-American69 · 2019-10-08T20:05:05+00:00

Remove grooming, add "feelz"

Bottled_Void · 2019-10-09T10:53:05+00:00

I'd probably add on an exception.

When something bad happens, you better be there to sort things out.

Her car breaks down on the wrong side of town? You're there either fixing it or waiting with her for the truck.

House flooding? Shut off the water and sort out the leak.

I figure that's what all the tests are about. She's making sure you'll be around when she really does need you. Something just gets messed up when you're just always on hand. Maybe that's just scarcity value.

SKRedPill · 2019-10-09T16:48:27+00:00

The point is that as far as you're concerned, it's not how much you are attracted to her that matters - it's how much she is attracted to you and swept up in your energy that's way more important - it's only when she needs you that she'll value you. As a man, your attraction to her is very easy to achieve, so there's not much you need beyond nature's built in systems. You then just need to take care of yourself.

Of course, do not fail the comfort test. Some amount of comfort does matter (it increases from zero to a point depending on where she is on the scale from ONS to a wife - so you need not and should not give her any comfort at the very beginning), but no more. Comfort is for survival, sexy is for sex.

You're the sun, and others are the planets that need your light. Once it starts trying to become the other way round, it's down the slippery slope. As Blue Pill Professor puts it, it can totally end with you killing yourself and she willing to piss over your grave in utter contempt of you for not having any light of your own. "I don't need a man" is Betaization stage 5 and the end of any relationship as far as she goes.

I have observed this in a lot of couples and have come to the conclusion that women's frontal cortexes and their reptilian brains must truly be completely out of sync with each other at a level beyond what most men are capable of - that is, their logical and emotional brains are far more compartmentalized and drive conflicting sets of behaviours. I used to think it was an elaborate premeditated thing - but that's my mistake - that's actually how I'd do it, but that's not how they do it.

What I now understand is that there is inbuilt cognitive dissonance within their minds and their frames change from moment to moment based on whichever reactive emotion comes up top at that moment. Women really do have very poor frames, and even those frames that stay are only held by the strength of emotion - whereas a man holds frame by his conviction of knowing the truth and the power of training and habit. Frame follows emotion in a woman and emotion follows frame in a man. A woman having to consistently hold frame is like a man having to practice abstinence.

TigerTamingSword · 2019-10-13T01:50:06+00:00

This is why I like the standart TRP advice of fucking 10 women before you even consider getting yourself into a LTR. More often than not, you have to ask yourself: do I really care about her, or is it just oneitis? The latter usually rears its ugly head when the girl in question is your only source of sex. Your primitive brain becomes deathly afraid of not passing on your genes and defaults into an anxiety-induced sense of attachment and fear of loss, which plays out poorly in 2019.

Besides, you must moderade your demonstrations of affection for most girls simply to preserve your own well being. I had a girl fall head over heels for me, texting all the time, making plans, heart emojis and all that jazz, and I replied in kind. One month later, the lightswitch effect hit without mercy and she suddenly went cold. Probably fucking some other dude, who knows. My prior life experience reiterates this notion. I'm not anywhere near the level of success I'd like to have with girls, but I think I'll drop the enamoured blue pill act for good. Having a mission + abundance seem to be the natural way forward.

How other men and other women interact with him (do they respect him?)

This, so much this. Sometimes guys on the internet have this illusion that they can be super lone wolf sigma Tyler Durden style badasses and sweep women off their feet with their aura of mystery, but it's mostly a form of mental wankery and resistance to change.

Mayin_ · 2019-10-08T21:36:03+00:00

No dude a stone, does not give a shit about anyone. That doesnt make a stone a being of unlimted power. Even if the stone some how had the power to create and destroy matter as it sees fit it wouldnt matter because it doesnt give a shit because it is a fucking stone.

Your emotions are what drives you and what gives you reason for wanting to chase women. Emotions are a tool. Just like your brain is a tool. The indvidual who has the most powers is the one who is able to use thier resources in a smarter way. I am not going to explain in depth what i mean but here is an example. A rich man may not be able to use money as well as a poor man if the rich man doesnt have as good of an idea. A poor man may not be able to acomplish what a rich man can because the rich man has more money if they both have the same idea. What is most important is how well you can use your resources.

I came on here to learn and the first post is some dip shit theory just like last month. Why is this post at the top wtf

Vito_33 · 2019-10-09T04:28:16+00:00

I can agree and disagree. Personally, by making sure my apt is cleaned everyday, cooking myself homemade meals every night, working out, working 50-80hrs/wk (2 jobs and side gigs), and interacting socially with 5-15 people a day, I’ve noticed that in my limited free time I enjoy showering my woman with affection, she fulfills my needs when I want, and overall my life feels balanced. Stoicism and redpill are very interconnected IMO, and it would be irrational to say men don’t need to express themselves socially and emotionally everyday like every other human. By releasing these inhibitions I believe we set ourselves up to make the most rational, unemotionally spiked decisions. I think showing a woman care is something that I need to do to meet my emotional needs, and as long as everything else in my life is in check (balanced), it is not hindering women’s attraction to me.

dumbkidaccount · 2019-10-09T07:21:17+00:00

Gonna read later when i get home

phracea · 2019-10-09T10:22:00+00:00

"This showed that males as a group were significantly less interested in maintaining their relationship and could use the principle of least interest to their own means."

ChrimsonChin988 · 2019-10-19T18:33:31+00:00

Fun thing is that like you said, you can't fake not caring. You naturally will stop caring once you get abundance. Making someone else your #1 priority just reeks of insecurity, that's why it's not attractive. Men will be much more forgiving when a woman makes them their #1 priority but after a while it becomes annyoing as well and the relationship becomes toxic.

TimGuoRen · 2019-10-09T08:59:47+00:00

Your conclusion is fine, but this:

The most important (and most honest) of these bullet points is: how we spend our time. Our time is the only finite resource we have. We can fake our looks, we can read pickup lines, but we cannot fake how we spend our time. As a result, by showing how we spend our time, we reveal what we value and thus who we truly are.

Every sentence here is just plain wrong...

Literally every other point you mentioned is way more important than how we spend our time.
Time is not the only finite resource, but whatever. This is just a figure of speech anyway.
Women do not care "Who you truly are deep inside". If you look good, handle yourself well and are respected, how you spend your time could not matter less to women.

PittleLeniss · 2019-10-08T19:24:29+00:00

So you're pretty much just saying be who you aren't yet be who you are lol. this is stupid.

Title	Honest Signals: Why Caring Kills Attraction
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	953
Comments	122
Date	October 8, 2019 4:45 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/df2m79/honest_signals_why_caring_kills_attraction/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/honest-signals-why-caring-kills-attraction.289353 https://theredarchive.com/post/289353