Honest Signals: Why Caring Kills Attraction

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October 8, 2019


Before I came across this sub, I was under the impression that if you showed a woman that you would love her and provide for her then she would value you more than someone who didn’t love her and wouldn’t care. This is wrong. The opposite is true. Here’s why:


Women want to optimize their chances of having successful offspring. In order to do this, they select a mate (or mates) who has the best chance of producing successful offspring. The best way of choosing this mate is to find someone they perceive to be better than them. They cannot be attracted to someone they believe is below them.

However, women cannot trust what men say because men lie. If all it took to sleep with a woman was to tell her that you were the shit, then this sub wouldn’t exist.

As a result, women are constantly assessing a man’s actions and the way he carries himself. They are constantly checking for Honest Signals that a man is what he claims to be. Honest Signals are the qualities a man unintentionally reveals about himself to a woman about himself. They are qualities that are not easily faked, and thus she can use them to determine whether or not she should associate with a man.

A few Honest Signals include:

  • How he looks

  • How he speaks and what he chooses to say

  • How he handles resistance (shit tests)

  • How he takes care of himself (grooming + fitness)

  • How other men and other women interact with him (do they respect him?)

  • Most importantly: How he spends his time (what does he value?)

The most important (and most honest) of these bullet points is: how we spend our time. Our time is the only finite resource we have. We can fake our looks, we can read pickup lines, but we cannot fake how we spend our time. As a result, by showing how we spend our time, we reveal what we value and thus who we truly are.

What we learn from this is that if you immediately respond to a girls’ texts, text multiple times, pick up every call, double checking to make sure that she’s arriving at a certain time, you’re revealing to her that you care more about her than she cares about you.

The Principle of Least Interest states that those who care the least have the most power. If you care more about someone than they care about you, you’re the bitch in the relationship. The key to being perceived as better than them is to:

Limit Your Attention by focusing on shit that isn’t them.

Lift, Read, Build something, talk to other women - it doesn’t matter. If you spend too much time on them, you’ll prove to them that they are more valuable than the other things in your life.

As the great Patrice O’Neal once said “A bitch don’t want to be your #1 priority.” Operate accordingly.

TL;DR: You subtly reveal who you are based on your behavior. Show her that she isn't the best thing in your life.

Edit: It seems some people didn't comprehend the message I am attempting to convey.

I am not suggesting you become a completely uncaring asshole. You should still give a fuck about her.

I AM saying that caring too much is a problem.

If you didn't care at all, you wouldn't ever respond to anything wouldn't dedicate any time to her. But on the whole, most people care way too much. You can still show affection and all that other shit, just not more than her.

The real way to not care is not to just "DGAF, bro". The real way to not care is to have other shit in your life that matters to you. I promise your relationships will be much stronger if you have shit that matters to you besides her.

She doesn't want to be your focus. She wants to be an accompaniment.

Post Information
Title Honest Signals: Why Caring Kills Attraction
Author [deleted]
Upvotes 933
Comments 122
Date 08 October 2019 04:45 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/289353
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/df2m79/honest_signals_why_caring_kills_attraction/
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Red Pill terms found in post:
shit testliftthe red pill

[–]thebadguy89251 points252 points  (24 children) | Copy

Truer words were never spoken. In addition, a woman's words will often contrast polar opposite with their actions/feelings.

Words: "What's wrong baby? Just tell me everything, I'm here to listen."

True feeling: "Omg, I thought you were a real man, instead you are here bitching to me?" "Let me see if he is a pussy and I should leave sinking ship."

Words: "Why are you so selfish? You're treating me like shit when I do so much for you."

True feeling: "Are you a bitch and ready to submit to my whining, or are you going to disregard me like a proper man should?"

etc etc

[–]ikarianarsi156 points157 points  (14 children) | Copy

Ok, so if I start really paying attention to my wife, you think she'll leave me? Cuz I'll try anything at this point to be alone again.

[–]ZeppKfw181 points182 points  (8 children) | Copy

Talk to her like she's the last person with a pussy on earth. Glorify her every 30mins. Be a real "Nice guy". Don't be direct and always insinuate a hidden agenda. Try crying whenever she's mad. Castrate yourself.

[–]LucidCunning176 points177 points  (2 children) | Copy

" Try crying whenever she's mad. "


[–]volvostupidshit0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I would probably laugh if I tried this one.

[–]BrownGummyBear74 points75 points  (0 children) | Copy

Don’t forget to tip your fedora when greeting ma ladies

[–]AubChris38 points39 points  (0 children) | Copy

Do the housework! then lick her toes!

[–]SMRII32 points33 points  (0 children) | Copy

I call that the Blue Pill Smokescreen haha

[–]CaciqueBoss29 points30 points  (0 children) | Copy

Tell her u want a sex change and make her call you her/she.

[–]p3n1x9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy

Why would she voluntarily leave your free resources? She will just cuck you.

[–]ikarianarsi-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

If this was true, then this would apply to all relationships, would it not? Yet women do leave men all the time, supposedly because men "care too much"

[–]p3n1x7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

No, they branch swing. Hypergamy is true, not your logic. If you know of some outlier female reaction that leaves to chill in a hotel room, it is just that, an outlier.

[–]thrwy754790 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Cuz I'll try anything at this point to be alone again.

Would you even consider divorcing her?

[–]ikarianarsi2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Nah I want her to think she caused the breakup

[–]3SKRedPill22 points23 points  (4 children) | Copy

I have observed this in a lot of couples and have come to the conclusion that women's frontal cortexes and their reptilian brains must truly be completely out of sync with each other at a level beyond what most men are capable of - that is, their logical and emotional brains are far more compartmentalized and drive conflicting sets of behaviours. I used to think it was an elaborate premeditated thing - but that's my mistake - that's actually how I'd do it, but that's not how they do it.

What I now understand is that there is inbuilt cognitive dissonance within their minds and their frames change from moment to moment based on whichever reactive emotion comes up top at that moment. Women really do have very poor frames, and even those frames that stay are only held by the strength of emotion - a man holds frame by his conviction of knowing the truth and the power of training and habit. A woman having to consistently hold frame is like a man having to practice abstinence.

[–]Unrealenting17 points18 points  (2 children) | Copy

They can’t help it, their brains are wired laterally, not vertically. They literally neuroanatomically cannot process information and integrate it throughout their brain.


Male brain on the left, Female on the right. Notice how male brains are wired to integrate data throughout different lobes while women compartmentalize data within lobes but not between?

[–]3SKRedPill2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Nice one. There's more cross processing between hemispheres in women, but far less inter-lobal wiring within a hemisphere. Men's brains process a lot within a hemisphere across lobes. They're quite the opposite of each other.

Explains why men go for a compartmentalized or structured hierarchical approach with selective integration (this basically means men's brains seek order and structure and separate boxes), while women's left and right brains can't be distinguished so often.

In the case of the man, his frontal cortex is wired to his hindbrain, in women, not nearly as much. It looks like that frontal cortex is essentially functioning apart.

[–]violetbiscotti0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What is lateral wiring good for?

[–]1redhawkes7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

their frames change from moment to moment based on whichever reactive emotion comes up top at that moment.

The sensory input is sent to the amygdala directly first, that's why they are more in the moment and react accordingly. With men is the other way around, neo cortex first, before hitting the amygdala. That' how the female hamster works too. They do the shit, then rationalize later, hence, actions over words.

[–]Punstatostriatus35 points36 points  (1 child) | Copy

Words: "What's wrong baby? Just tell me everything, I'm here to listen."

It's rather something like: "Let me see if he is a pussy and I should leave sinking ship."

[–]thebadguy8926 points27 points  (0 children) | Copy

"Let me see if he is a pussy and I should leave sinking ship."

spot on, yours is better lmao

[–]mickenrorty6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

It took me many levels of TRP inoculation to truely know this to be true... to truely see women as they truely are is a very Scary epiphany...

up there next to realising all mainstream religion is a corrupt power related tax free scam.

[–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire219 points20 points  (0 children) | Copy

She wants to know if there is a problem in case she needs to start planning an exit strategy, or execute a pre-existing one, or even in certain cases, just straight up end the relationship immediately.

[–]OrzhovPalatine81 points82 points  (0 children) | Copy

Good good was about to say "Patrices whole thing is this"

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (1 child) | Copy

Very good post. I learned this the hard way. I showed and told her how much I cared about her, and that pussy dried right up. She tried to friendzone me and told me that she wanted to date other people and if it doesn't work out we can get back together.

More ridiculous words have never been spoken. Long story short, I rejected the demotion to friendship, stopped contacting her but would respond of she reached out, then eventually ghosted her when she reached out months later with that "you've been on my mind, I've had successive dreams about you, just thought I should check on you" bullshit.

Tables turned. I burned the care I had for her out of necessity, and hers somehow grew back for me.

Good post man. You've articulated well what most of us have come to realize, but not yet put into words. Good on you.

[–]Hells880 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

A GF telling you she wants to date other people - why can’t they just kick you in the crotch. Good for you to see through the bullshit

[–]555WeWolf89 points90 points  (34 children) | Copy

Honestly i never understood the "don't text her back immediately". When i see that i have a message, if i am not doing anything more important i will just pick up the phone and answer the damn text. The whole "wait at least twice the time she took to respond" to me is to much mental investment to think about "wait wait juuust a liiitle bit... now i need to reply", like wtf don't you have anything better to do?

[–]EducationalArm3140 points141 points  (9 children) | Copy

the points is to have your day filled with activities so much that you really don't have to "wait" to reply - you automatically don't have the time to immediately respond.

[–]555WeWolf26 points27 points  (7 children) | Copy

Fair point i do agree with it. But lets say for instance you are at work and you go out for a break, you take a walk around the office to stretch. During those 10-15 minutes while i don't get back to work i'm just going to text immediately anything that i have first of all because i know i wont have the time once i start working again, and if she is playing the "wait x minutes to respond" well tough luck then because the window is closing.

[–]nahisegaq23458 points59 points  (3 children) | Copy

From personal experience, I've found that there isn't anything wrong with replying fast. However, like all things in life, there's a balance. Speedy replies too often, especially if you haven't already fucked the girl, come off as attached and BP. However, replies that are spaced out too often come off as too RP and distant. It's all contextual, but replying fast every now and then (keypoint: when you yourself aren't on your grind momentarily) isn't bad. Always be unpredictable

[–]mickenrorty12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

You wouldn’t be texting back immediately if you had 3-4 girls on the go though... why? Because it’s tiresome to keep up to speed with everyone wanting your attention.

The don’t text back thing is just PUA Technique to display high value... and hey it works.

You’re more than welcome to text her back quickly like a needy little bitch

If you want to get fucked like a god, make her think you’ve ghosted her before reeling her back in last moment. I would go two weeks no reply before I suddenly apologise and invite her around for a wine and netflix

[–]p3n1x10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

i know i wont have the time once i start working again,

Get off your fucking phone. Especially on a break.

and if she is playing

She is always playing. Your comment shows you are already in the wrong frame of mind by thinking "tough luck". You want to believe she understands "tough luck" and will behave accordingly to your passive-aggressive "tough luck" rules. (fyi, she is laughing at you) Your solipsism & ego wants to believe that she agrees, (understands the logic) to your relationship rule of "tough luck".

-Text when you want to, we aren't forcibly telling you what to do, but also take responsibility for what will happen if you do it to the point she finds you pathetic.

[–]PhyllisWheatenhousen5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

The average reply should take a while. Sure you can reply quickly and have a conversation if you think it would help and you're open, but don't do it often.

[–]PittleLeniss2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

A person that understands life!

[–]Sumsar0117 points18 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's advice made for people with no life and no game. If your not a beginner find what works for you. Also book of pook.

[–]mountainofsnow17 points18 points  (0 children) | Copy

The point is to make her miss you and wonder about you. The more she wonders, the more her attraction level goes up.

[–]celtiberian66612 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

Your own message have the answer:

if i am not doing anything more important

If you answer right away you're telling her you don't have anything more important to do. Her is more important than anything else in your life in that very moment. That's why you should keep those moments to a bare minimum necessary to have effective communication about stuff that matter: logistics (be a LTR our a plate, that is the only thing that matter).

And if you don't have stuff to do instead of talking on the phone, just get stuff to do, you're wasting the most precious resource a man have: time.

[–]bored_vampire17 points18 points  (8 children) | Copy

Tbh imo bitches have sixth sense on whether you faking your availability anyway. But ymmv, maybe I am bad at it.

[–]alittletoosmooth52 points53 points  (6 children) | Copy

Are you looking at your phone when you are with her? If so, boom, she knows you're a lying sack of shit. Keep your phone in your pocket when you are with them. Lead by example. None of this phone on the table shit. Live in the moment.

[–]555WeWolf16 points17 points  (2 children) | Copy

In my opinion everyone should keep their phones in their pockets (except for emergencies) when out with anyone whether that be a date or a friend. Otherwise its just a sign of disrespect.

[–]alittletoosmooth2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I agree. And even further I would suggest turning off all notifications for any app such as Facebook or Instagram, Facebook, etc. Nothing is that important from those apps. That includes dating apps too.

[–]555WeWolf1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I usually turn on "do not disturb" when in such an occasion. And you are 100% right about the fact that nothing from those apps is that important. Facebook, insta and similar apps are designed in a way to keep you hooked when in reality they give you almost no value, if anyone is interested you can look up how social media affects your dopamine and everything bad that happens down that chain later on.

[–]bored_vampire3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Naw it's not that

You can delay replying by an hour, you can delay answering till end of the night - it will not matter cus she can figure out whether you really are the busybody mover and shaker in person or if you faking it. Like if that phone ain't ringing, she know lol. And no jedi mind tricks will change that.

[–]p3n1x3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Your Frame is her best Lie Detector.

[–]Chaddeus_Rex1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I always tell bitches on dates, "lets agree that while we are together, we don't look at our phones"

If she looks at it again, "You'll have plenty of time to look at your phone when you get home. Look into my eyes baby"

[–]rombios9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

Same here. My approach is if she mis-interprets/ghosts, delete and move on.

Women are generally bad judges of value and character so no sense dwelling on things largely out of your control.

Just easier to head out on the weekend looking for new prospects than expend energy trying to make things work with one chick

[–]banquos_horse 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy

From what I understand one of the main differences between the red pill and pick up artistry is faking value vs becoming valuable.

In the spirit of this sub if you are sitting in your bed consciously thinking about how many minutes to wait before texting back you are just faking value and there's no point discussing it any further, whereas if you're in the middle of cooking a meal or a conversation or at the gym you genuinely are not able to reply every 5 seconds.

[–]Endorsed ContributorKeffirLime8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Game forms part of your value, it can't really be separated.

Think of it like a product, that is you. Game is the marketing campaign attached to the product. You could have a great product and terrible marketing which causes it to tank, or you could have a bad product with great marketing that causes it to flourish(albeit probably temporarily).

Ideally you want to have a great product and a great marketing campaign to give it the best possible chance of success, which is why you should be actively developing both.

[–]555WeWolf9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

Spot on. As Rollo once said "PUA is like giving children dynamite"

[–]bluefingerblue2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Unpredictability is key. And if you’re busy, odds are you won’t be checking your phone all too often, meaning it’ll take a while to respond. But for the times you aren’t busy, I think it’s ok to text back quickly.

[–]rombios1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I have always thought that was too much mental work

[–]PittleLeniss-1 points0 points  (6 children) | Copy

"That will get her worried about what i'm doing" < Makes for a toxic relationship.

[–]Dimenzije9021 points22 points  (4 children) | Copy

If you have a gf right now start responding her immediately and come back after few weeks here. Ive been there so many times. Idk why but waiting for response is always better. IMO you should just turn off the notifications on your phone since its also distracting. And hit em up when you see the message later in the day. This way you dont even lie you just really didnt get the message at first. Like i said its fucked up but thats what gets them interested.

[–]Rupturednutsack4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Or just set your WhatsApp if you use it to not show the blue double ticks to confirm the message was read. Works like a charm because you have plenty of room for deniability (My job requires me to keep personal and work completely separate/I have to be invisible or it conflicts with my job) - any bullshit will fly because the point is you’re THAT busy, and she can’t accuse you of not responding)

[–]PittleLeniss-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

I have a girlfriend right now lol. I'd never ignore someone just because. It doesn't make sense to me. Sorry.

[–]endertheend4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Then theres no need for you to be here, youve won, you are the red pill master. Go and preach your truth everywhere else. You don't need to be here.

[–]JihadNinjaCowboy53 points54 points  (10 children) | Copy

And yes, it IS possible to do this while still not being a douche to the female. I do it. You can occasionally do stuff that shows you care, but it has to be moderated...

As soon as you start simping though, the vagina will dry up.

Its a win-win, though. The effort you put into productive things other than simping is effort that ironically will attract more females. Females don't love you for what you are, they love you for what you do and for what they think you can do for them. Consider hypergamy and Briffault's Law.

If you can earn a 6-figure income without working 80 hours a week, then you can still lay the pipe so they aren't fucking the pool boy. Everything in moderation, and balanced.

[–]jerzeypipedreamz 1 points [recovered]  (4 children) | Copy

You are spot on with "Females don't love you for what you are, they love you for what you do and for what they think you can do for them."

By my late teens I had already been making great money by working a good job and also doing some not so legal things on the side. I had grown women in there 30s and 40s wanting to be with me. Eventually I grew up a bit stopped the illegal stuff, started a better job at a pharmaceutical company and found myself an amazing girl. We were togeather for about 6 years. Then one day my back broke and couldnt work anymore. She left a few months later but not before she made me feel like shit and destroy my self confidence by telling me everyday I was worthless, I wasnt a real man anymore and started working at a strip club known for prostitution. Since then, I decided to just be by myself. Its just not worth the effort to be constantly trying to keep women happy at the expense of your physical and mental wellbeing.

[–]moltenw6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Guys here be acting like they care for the girl "as she is" . Hilarious.

Fact of the matter is - whether you are a male or a female, if you bring no value to the opposite gender, they won't care about you. Dudes care about girls "as they are" only if they are fuckable, and women care depending on what they are looking for (AF/BB~)

[–]p3n1x1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

This happens to many men, and it sucks, but your story is extremely biased. I'm sure you weren't a stoic badass while you were injured. You went from corporate to a bouncer, that is a serious demotion.

You regressed back to your former life, unfortunately, your former life is not how you met her. After 6 years you fucked yourself by never improving. Her 'tick-tock' bio clock is more important than the empathy you have always been seeking. The majority of bouncers have a huge "beta complex" also. Food for thought.

[–]Qba19945 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

„And yes, it IS possible to do this while still not being a douche to the female. I do it. You can occasionally do stuff that shows you care, but it has to be moderated...”

Could you share certain examples of showing care to your girl?

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy

Giving her orders and clear expectations, as per my Guide to Training Bitches.

Women crave for structure. If a man doesn't provide it for her, she will seek it in stupid groupthink movements and government intervention.

[–]JihadNinjaCowboy8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Well its more an issue of turning down when she makes requests for things I'm not interested, a certain amount of the time, so I can do my own priorities.

For example, if she is preparing for a triathalon down the road, I may decline to be with her while she does a race in favor of doing landscape work at my house that needs done, but I will be there the next time when she does another race or something big like a triathalon to take care of her afterwards, snacks, drinks a treat, something better than they have at the end of the race, drive her back so she doesn't.

But the key is to not do EVERY time, otherwise you are simping. But you cannot deny EVERY time, because then it will seem like you have NO interest. You have to keep her guessing a little along the way. Like being invited to her house to stay the night. I turn down plenty of times because I know I will get sex from her anyway 2 days later.

As with almost everything, balance and moderation is the key.

[–]Field_Of_View1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

you can still lay the pipe so they aren't fucking the pool boy

this isn't how it works. you can't prevent women from cheating.

[–]JihadNinjaCowboy2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

No, you can't prevent them.

But you can reduce the probability.

[–]yomo8659 points60 points  (9 children) | Copy

Honestly, being honest with my feelings towards women ie being a father figure not some sentimental crap, resulted always in a dried up pussy. Do not be me. Action not words are a man's tools.

[–][deleted] 43 points44 points  (0 children) | Copy

Two things:

First, I entirely agree.

Second, if you read the post, you'll know that this has nothing to do with what I posted.

[–]PandaLitter7 points8 points  (5 children) | Copy

Can you elaborate on how acting like a father figure dried them up?

[–]yomo8611 points12 points  (4 children) | Copy

My plate was having a field day in college with her masters. A valid reason for showing some paternalistic provisioning ie I invited her to dinner and made a little cupcake with congrats written on it. Nothing overtly beta or out of context. Especially since I never paid for anything. A masters degree is the completion of a life segment so a little celebration was appropriate or so I thought. Her pussy dried up almost instantly. Since then every act of 'love' has to be begged for by any girl in my life, and they actually, crave the begging.

[–]PandaLitter8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy

You sure that was the thing that dried her pussy up like a shamwow factory in the middle of the Sahara?

Or did you do more things along with that

[–]NoSugar9 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy

It sounds like he’s hiding the more cuck things he did

[–]Field_Of_View0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

or she simply got worried he was taking the relationship seriously when she wasn't. and if there's a pattern to it it may that he always picks up chicks in places / contexts that guarantee they will be on the slutty end of the spectrum. it doesn't have to be a problem with how he is treating them, is my point.

[–]ZachMeadows21 points22 points  (1 child) | Copy

I have trouble understanding what you say...

To me being a father figure is getting shit done => taking actions and owning up to it.

From experience and what is taught here it is what wets panties.

Yet you seem to say the opposite...

Maybe rephrase your sentence.

[–]verumvelfalsum12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

To me being a father figure is getting shit done => taking actions and owning up to it.

This is in accordance with what is traditionally prevalent in terms of "father figure" norms. Chances are good that the above commenter has a misguided view of what being a masculine role model entails, due to lack of being raised by a solid masculine influence. Hence why the significance of our society's lack of good fathers cannot be overstated.

[–]nobody_thinks25 points26 points  (7 children) | Copy

so tired of posts where guys try to explain how women are divine angles sent to evaluate men for their reproductive fitness ... as if a woman's reproductive standards go beyond tingles and feelz. That is all. tingles and feelz. Get it through your head.

women could give a fuck about how you spend your time as long as you generate tingles and feelz. Plz try and understand this.

[–]transmission9992 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

is it correct to say that her choice to reject you is not an objective measurement of your fitness ? if so, then how could you measure your fitness?

[–]nobody_thinks3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

it is an objective measurement of her subjective evaluation of your ability to meet her "needs" (Briffault's Law). Female "needs" are usually (1) status (2) feelz (3) money (4) career advancement, etc. Women literally almost never evaluate mates on their reproductive fitness (i.e. an honest assessment of what will produce strong, viable offspring). If they made their decisions that way, the divorce rate would be near zero.

Women think in terms of feelz.

[–]PhantomLegend6161 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

How do you make women get tingles and feelz?

[–]Chaddeus_Rex1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

by learning game and getting ur body on fleek

[–]wisesw440 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

but the tingles and feelz are subconscious, and are a result of the "reproductive fitness" you display to her.

[–]boomcheese4410 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

Just admit that being sexually attractive is more important than providing for her. Ultimately, woman want both, but sexual attraction will come first.

[–]RPthrowaway12324 points25 points  (3 children) | Copy

Good post. I've been doing this with the girl I'm seeing currently (after a hiatus, so yeah I've only got the one so far) and it's gone well so far. She's no-contact so far this week and I feel like she's testing to see what I'll do now. I've just been constantly reminding myself that she's shit testing here and I need to do other things, but man I forgot how hard that can be sometimes lol.

[–]UltimateCrypto46 points47 points  (2 children) | Copy

If you had bigger goals you’d actually be hoping she wouldn’t text back for another week

[–]RPthrowaway12318 points19 points  (1 child) | Copy

Well currently I'm scraping by as I work on getting a raise, I'm working out 5-6 days a week between lifting running and swimming, I'm working (unpaid) to try and set up a major business opportunity, I have a woodworking project I need to finish...you get the picture.

The problem is really that I work very fast (ADHD), and then (since my day job is paying my hourly) I have to sit there and waste time doing jack shit while waiting for something to happen there. It compresses all the other things I want to do into the remaining time I have left...I'm also a bit prone, I feel, to being stir crazy in that I want to take action on things and deal with them head on. That approach of course does not work with women, at all, so the waiting game is against my nature to a degree and it takes a lot of focus for me to do it and to maintain the willpower to do something that doesn't come "naturally" to me.

It's basically the perfect storm for stress, unfortunately. I've been trying to get more sleep to counteract that.

[–]Sumsar016 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

It will be better. Your DGAF attitude will grow for ever soul crushing grind in your life.

[–]Shaman662424 points25 points  (7 children) | Copy

Not everything is a dichotomy. You can show her she isn't the most important thing in your life and still love her and tell her you love her.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I agree and addressed this point in my edit.

[–]BlackjointnerD8 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy

yeah this sub is kind of extreme, we need more balanced views. Alot of the stuff here makes men seem no different than who they complain about

[–]Shaman66247 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

True but in discovering the extremes of the spectrum also lies great utility. A lyric from Tool comes to mind:

" Black then white are all I see in my infancy
Red and yellow then came to be, reaching out to me
Lets me see "

It's ok to dive into the extreme cause lot's of men that come here are actually from the other side of the extreme and they need to be schocked awake.

[–]BlackjointnerD0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I agree...it just sucks because when you find someone decent you can end up fucking up your investment when you arent fully grounded yet..that was my situation but thats life I suppose and you just gotta roll with the punches... no such thing as soul mates anyways

[–]Pussyshack 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy

"Balanced views" is why you ended up here in the first place. If the truth about women is too much for you then suck on that blue pull bro.

[–]BlackjointnerD0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

"sUck 0n th3 BLu3 p1Ll br00" fuck outta here incel...how about you be a man and actually add something of value to the conversation..you can disagree with me and not be such a tough guy...heres a example since you might be taking dicks to the head

"Imho theres no such thing as a balanced view, it just is what it is...its alot to take in because (add your perspective here)"

[–]musterdcheif7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy


I’ve been slipping by face timing a long distance plate constantly and for hours, I’ve always been the dom in the relationship but I started getting invested without noticing. I’d been answering all her calls, over complimenting her and even calling her without merit. Decided to mute all her notifications and remove her number, if she tries to get my attention I’ll answer but I’m not going to contact her otherwise (as much as I want to due to overinvestment)

[–]MrAnderzon5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Patrice O Neal back it again put him in the sidebar if he's not already

[–]1trueliberal15 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Why Caring Kills Attraction

Caring kills attraction in women because women wrongly perceive caring as an indication of low status and lack of options in the men that care. This is evolutionary baggage from the Stone Age.

In the Stone Age, a person would have at most a couple dozen possible sexual partners in their lifetime. Men had to acquire as many as possible to maximize the number of offspring they had so they could compete with the other men in their generation. Women could only have a few children in their lives so quantity did not matter. Nor did quality matter so much. What did matter was the perception of quality by the next generation of women. After all, a woman's daughters would be in the exact same boat as she was in, but a woman's sons would be in the same boat as the men she was considering.

This had two implications. The first is the sexy son hypothesis. The only way to guess at what the next generation of women would want is by using the sexual preferences of the current generation of women, and that was a very accurate proxy in a time when little to nothing changed. So by reproducing with the popular man, any sons a woman had would have similar genes and would likely be popular with the next generation of women and thus that woman would have many more grandchildren.

The second implication is an example of sexual exaggeration. Women who preferred popular men would pass on that preference to their daughters. This trait would amplify with time.

Both of these two implications created a problem for Stone Age women. How could they accurately assess a man's popularity? Evolution would provide many tools for doing that, one of which was to use caring as a proxy for low status. The idea is that if a man showed that he cared for a woman, that means he had few options and was attempting to maximize his chance of success with that one woman. Such a man would likely be low status because if he weren't, he would have many sexual opportunities and it would make more sense to spend as little time and effort with each woman so he could engage in intercourse with many.

A proxy does not have to be a good one for evolution to select for it. It merely must be better than chance. However, in modern times it is a lousy proxy as population densities and society complexities are vastly different from what they were in the Stone Age. Unfortunately, women's instincts and their hindbrain still cause them to strongly associate caring with low status and undesirability. This is why men must alternative between being a tolerable jerk and occasionally do something nice. This is also why when a bad boy does something slightly nice it counts a million times as much as something very nice does by a man who is typically nice.

Example at end of this video at 4 min on (art imitates life) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSGG6D-He9A

Nice Guys Or Bad Boys? nice guy = beta bucks bad boy = alpha fucks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMxJ8HYk5Ks

Always be a bad boy that once in while does something nice only to be aloof and uncaring again. This keeps her guessing and interested. It also serves to advertise to other women in the vicinity. Is this a stupid game that ultimately makes women miserable? Absolutely. You still need to play this game because women, being instinctual creatures, are too stupid to stop forcing men to play this game. Accept that women are that stupid and there is nothing you can do to change that. Even if you tell women about this stupid game and the rules, they will still demand that you play it. They know what the game is, but they cannot override their instincts.

[–]1Obediah_Stane8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Exactly. You wanna bitch and show emotion and discuss your feelings? Then go talk to family and close male friends. Never show weakness to a woman.

[–]cydestiny6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Agreed. Well written.

This is a well known theory yet most still fell for it.

The mainly reason is because while they know that paying too much attention is bad, they didn't know why they pay too much attention and then resort to filling their day with plenty stuff to do or fill their mind with emptiness/loniless/negativity while waiting for the "grace period" to end so that can pay attention to the woman again.

The core problem is not that you have nothing going on in life, the problem is you prioritized a woman too much because you believed or is made to believe that she will bring you all the good stuff.

The solution is to live your own life and mind your own business. You can give your attention to a woman but do so only if you're consciously aware.

For example, you saw a woman in a beautiful sundress on instagram, and you like sundresses, leave her a genuine comment but not comment/liking every single post you see.

[–]SadDoggo455 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

So caring about women makes them less interested, and not caring makes them interested.

  1. Man genuinely doesn't care, woman is attracted - that is a really shit deal for a woman, and mostly doesn't apply to the people here
  2. Man cares, but acts like he doesn't - that is tedious

Then what is the point in looking for a woman if you need to either not care about her, or if you need to constantly keep your guard up not to slip up that you care?

Why would you even want a woman?

[–]Otter_Limits5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

I understand the concept behind “whoever cares less wins”—that the more invested party has more to lose (makes perfect sense from a business perspective cough American companies capitulating to Chinese government tyranny and human rights abuse in exchange for access to their enormous consumer market cough)—but this doesn’t works in the context of a one-on-one romantic relationship. I mean, think about it: if the only way to keep a woman interested in you is to either not care or at least come across as caring less, then...what exactly are you doing?

This is the kind of thing you do with a business partner, not a spouse or girlfriend. What’s even the point of having a partner, if you have to spend the entire relationship purposefully being emotionally-distant, just to “keep her wondering”. Fantasy is not an infinite reservoir; lust (that’s what you’re working with, since you’ve basically admitted that commitment is a fool’s errand and relationships are worthless) can only be maintained for so long. It is logical to have a life mostly separate from your partner, in order to have independence, but this kind of “I need to keep her guessing”, where you deliberately expend energy to keep up the appearance of being more important than her, is mired in its own brand of irrational reasoning and false premises.

If the goal is to get laid with the least amount of f*cks given and effort used, just sleep with a hooker; there’s no need for investment and you achieve the desired result, probably more so since you’re not going out of your way to continually furnish an IDGAF attitude. Or does banging an escort not count, because there’s no presumption of dominance in that scenario and only losers pay for sex? You’re paying for it, one way or another—be it with cash or time—so the only truly relevant question at that point is “what form of currency will you pay with?”

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I agree with you. The reason I agree with you is because I think that if the only way you were to keep a woman interested is to not care, you're doing it wrong.

It's not that "Not Caring" creates attraction. It's that "Caring too much" kills it.

Even then, I'm not even suggesting that you dedicate space to "be emotionally distant". I'm suggesting you have other shit going on in your life so that you stop being so overly emotionally attached.

I am not advocating games. Games are fucking annoying. I'm saying that you should have a life that isn't so boring that the best thing in it is your partner. You should have your time filled with other shit, so that when you are with your partner, she recognizes that your time is valuable.

[–]mickenrorty2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

“Find someone they perceive to be better than them In everyway”

I don’t think it’s that complex, it’s merely someone who has perceived good reproductive genes, guys that have balls and don’t care are guys that have options due to power/muscles/good looks... and/or money.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I cut the "in every way". They perceive them to have good reproductive genes if they are better than them.

[–]ethical_pa2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

The real way to not care is not to just "DGAF, bro". The real way to not care is to have other shit in your life that matters to you. I promise your relationships will be much stronger if you have shit that matters to you besides her.

Yes... but also abundance. This doesn't necessarily mean immediately having other women in your life. But having the ability to attract high quality women is key. This is why they say that you have to keep your game tight even (especially?) when in a committed relationship. Once you lose the ability to attract women, she becomes the center of your life, and she'll resent you and hate you for it.

[–]UnbreakableButts2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Lie. Lie a lot. Lie about hooking up with someone hotter than her. Lie about some great job, friends, social status, just lie. You thinking they're smart enough to figure anything out is giving them way too much credit. This isn't an excuse to be lazy though. You should work hard and make good friends, have a job or business, and express yourself fully. But if you're working towards those things don't be honest with them, just lie. Do not have a conscious with a woman because they truly don't care about you, or are able to care about you the same way a man can care about women. To them, it's all about status and you're a stepping stone to the next best thing. As long as you're both having fun it's all good.

[–]European-American691 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Remove grooming, add "feelz"

[–]Bottled_Void1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'd probably add on an exception.

When something bad happens, you better be there to sort things out.

Her car breaks down on the wrong side of town? You're there either fixing it or waiting with her for the truck.

House flooding? Shut off the water and sort out the leak.

I figure that's what all the tests are about. She's making sure you'll be around when she really does need you. Something just gets messed up when you're just always on hand. Maybe that's just scarcity value.

[–]3SKRedPill1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The point is that as far as you're concerned, it's not how much you are attracted to her that matters - it's how much she is attracted to you and swept up in your energy that's way more important - it's only when she needs you that she'll value you. As a man, your attraction to her is very easy to achieve, so there's not much you need beyond nature's built in systems. You then just need to take care of yourself.

Of course, do not fail the comfort test. Some amount of comfort does matter (it increases from zero to a point depending on where she is on the scale from ONS to a wife - so you need not and should not give her any comfort at the very beginning), but no more. Comfort is for survival, sexy is for sex.

You're the sun, and others are the planets that need your light. Once it starts trying to become the other way round, it's down the slippery slope. As Blue Pill Professor puts it, it can totally end with you killing yourself and she willing to piss over your grave in utter contempt of you for not having any light of your own. "I don't need a man" is Betaization stage 5 and the end of any relationship as far as she goes.

I have observed this in a lot of couples and have come to the conclusion that women's frontal cortexes and their reptilian brains must truly be completely out of sync with each other at a level beyond what most men are capable of - that is, their logical and emotional brains are far more compartmentalized and drive conflicting sets of behaviours. I used to think it was an elaborate premeditated thing - but that's my mistake - that's actually how I'd do it, but that's not how they do it.

What I now understand is that there is inbuilt cognitive dissonance within their minds and their frames change from moment to moment based on whichever reactive emotion comes up top at that moment. Women really do have very poor frames, and even those frames that stay are only held by the strength of emotion - whereas a man holds frame by his conviction of knowing the truth and the power of training and habit. Frame follows emotion in a woman and emotion follows frame in a man. A woman having to consistently hold frame is like a man having to practice abstinence.

[–]TigerTamingSword1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is why I like the standart TRP advice of fucking 10 women before you even consider getting yourself into a LTR. More often than not, you have to ask yourself: do I really care about her, or is it just oneitis? The latter usually rears its ugly head when the girl in question is your only source of sex. Your primitive brain becomes deathly afraid of not passing on your genes and defaults into an anxiety-induced sense of attachment and fear of loss, which plays out poorly in 2019.

Besides, you must moderade your demonstrations of affection for most girls simply to preserve your own well being. I had a girl fall head over heels for me, texting all the time, making plans, heart emojis and all that jazz, and I replied in kind. One month later, the lightswitch effect hit without mercy and she suddenly went cold. Probably fucking some other dude, who knows. My prior life experience reiterates this notion. I'm not anywhere near the level of success I'd like to have with girls, but I think I'll drop the enamoured blue pill act for good. Having a mission + abundance seem to be the natural way forward.

How other men and other women interact with him (do they respect him?)

This, so much this. Sometimes guys on the internet have this illusion that they can be super lone wolf sigma Tyler Durden style badasses and sweep women off their feet with their aura of mystery, but it's mostly a form of mental wankery and resistance to change.

[–]Mayin_4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

No dude a stone, does not give a shit about anyone. That doesnt make a stone a being of unlimted power. Even if the stone some how had the power to create and destroy matter as it sees fit it wouldnt matter because it doesnt give a shit because it is a fucking stone.

Your emotions are what drives you and what gives you reason for wanting to chase women. Emotions are a tool. Just like your brain is a tool. The indvidual who has the most powers is the one who is able to use thier resources in a smarter way. I am not going to explain in depth what i mean but here is an example. A rich man may not be able to use money as well as a poor man if the rich man doesnt have as good of an idea. A poor man may not be able to acomplish what a rich man can because the rich man has more money if they both have the same idea. What is most important is how well you can use your resources.

I came on here to learn and the first post is some dip shit theory just like last month. Why is this post at the top wtf

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'll respond to this because this is the best point anyone has brought up so far.

I'm obviously not advocating that someone become completely uncaring. If someone didn't care at all, they wouldn't ever respond or acknowledge the other person's existence. That's counter to the goal.

My point I'm making is extreme because most people fall so far to the opposite side. They care so much about the person they're trying to be with that it gets in the way of their other life goals. They care so much that the other people, who would have otherwise been attracted, loses those feelings.

On dates or even in bed, I'd accidentally say some shit that showed I cared a lot more than she did. It wasn't until I started caring less about any one individual that the plates I was spinning started to break less and their attraction towards me increased.

[–]whyamiotaku565 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy

Sub is filled with borderline incels, they love to hear that women are heartless.

[–]rockstarsheep1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It’s a lot of (badly?) “Regurgitated Rollo 101”

A lot of the content on this sub, is this sort of low grade, entry level rehash. The interesting thing about Rollo though, is that he has a lot of nuance to bring to the table. He also doesn’t come across as an angry chimp, with other screeching chimps, echoing back at him. It suggests a lot of young guys, swinging their dicks in the wind. Which is fine. They’re one upping each other. I also kind of laugh about Patrice, because whilst I appreciate his persona and humour, his relationship was with a piece of trash. He walked the talk, or perhaps better stated, talked the walk. He sits on a pedestal, and is treated with a bromance oneitis. That’s funny itself.

[–]Vito_332 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I can agree and disagree. Personally, by making sure my apt is cleaned everyday, cooking myself homemade meals every night, working out, working 50-80hrs/wk (2 jobs and side gigs), and interacting socially with 5-15 people a day, I’ve noticed that in my limited free time I enjoy showering my woman with affection, she fulfills my needs when I want, and overall my life feels balanced. Stoicism and redpill are very interconnected IMO, and it would be irrational to say men don’t need to express themselves socially and emotionally everyday like every other human. By releasing these inhibitions I believe we set ourselves up to make the most rational, unemotionally spiked decisions. I think showing a woman care is something that I need to do to meet my emotional needs, and as long as everything else in my life is in check (balanced), it is not hindering women’s attraction to me.

[–]dumbkidaccount0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Gonna read later when i get home

[–]phracea0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

"This showed that males as a group were significantly less interested in maintaining their relationship and could use the principle of least interest to their own means."

[–]ChrimsonChin9880 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Fun thing is that like you said, you can't fake not caring. You naturally will stop caring once you get abundance. Making someone else your #1 priority just reeks of insecurity, that's why it's not attractive. Men will be much more forgiving when a woman makes them their #1 priority but after a while it becomes annyoing as well and the relationship becomes toxic.

[–]TimGuoRen-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy

Your conclusion is fine, but this:

The most important (and most honest) of these bullet points is: how we spend our time. Our time is the only finite resource we have. We can fake our looks, we can read pickup lines, but we cannot fake how we spend our time. As a result, by showing how we spend our time, we reveal what we value and thus who we truly are.

Every sentence here is just plain wrong...

  1. Literally every other point you mentioned is way more important than how we spend our time.

  2. Time is not the only finite resource, but whatever. This is just a figure of speech anyway.

  3. Women do not care "Who you truly are deep inside". If you look good, handle yourself well and are respected, how you spend your time could not matter less to women.

[–]phracea1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

"On Saving Time", by Seneca, is a good read.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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