Still Thinking About Marriage? Think of It Like a No Benefit Sports Bet.

Archwinger · 2016-05-20T16:51:40+00:00

The fact that there's little or nothing to gain for men is only the tip of the iceberg. The modern marriage system outright incentivizes women to be manipulative, secretive, and eventually divorce their husbands.

Just recently, my wife has been saying that she wants to quit her job. She says she'll do more around the house to save us money on the maid service, after school care for our kid, and freeing up my time to work more hours and help us maintain our total income.

That almost sounds Red-Pill-ideal, doesn't it? But the lawyer in me told her no.

If I ran a family law practice and my wife showed up in my office, told me she wanted to divorce her husband, told me everything about their situation, and asked for advice:

The first thing I'd tell her would be to hold out a little longer. String the marriage out to 10 years, which would pretty much guarantee her a spousal support award in my state, and increase the amount. (We have spousal support instead of alimony. It's not always awarded, especially if the wife has her own income. And it's a little more temporary, but still a bitch.)

The second thing I'd tell her would be to quit her job in the mean time. Because from the outside, to a court, if she quits her job while I start working more hours to make more money, it would look like she sacrificed her career to support mine. Plus, after she remains unemployed for a couple of years, she'd be a lot less employable. That would pretty much guarantee her a huge spousal support payment, the house, and greater than 50% of the marital assets to help compensate her for the time it'll take her to get back on her feet.

The third thing I'd recommend would be for her to get our kid diagnosed with some kind of special need or learning disability. Something kind of trivial, like ADD, that will have only a small real world cost to her, but that can be used to increase the child support payment I'd be assessed. Because she's not working, she's dealing with a special needs child, and for the past couple of years while I was workaholic to make up for her income, she'd be doing all of the childcare, she'd pretty much be guaranteed custody while I'd get the standard 4 days every 2 weeks of visitation, 5th weekends, two weeks in the summer, and alternate holidays.

With the huge spousal support and child support payments she'd be receiving, I would have to work even more hours just to pay her every month. My quality of life would go way down -- I'd be working more hours than I'd ever worked for a lot lower quality of living. Meanwhile, she would be making more from what I paid her than she's ever made at any of her jobs.

flexiblehold · 2016-05-20T20:39:57+00:00

A friend of a friend just got married, it was a destination wedding in a far-flung location. Both the groom and bride do well professionally/financially. On the last night of the trip, after vows had been taken, after their respective families and friends had spent $x000s to attend, the newlywed bride stayed out late with a group of her bridesmaids and ended up going back to the hotel of a rando and fucking him (the groom had retired early for the evening to get some much-needed sleep).

Also don't forget how getting married forces you by definition into the woman's frame and all but eliminates any dread leverage you have as a man, at least in the beginning.

Il128 · 2016-05-20T19:13:02+00:00

No matter how many times you say it, there will always be the little beta in men telling them that they have to get married or there's no way they can raise a family.

Il128 · 2016-05-20T18:04:45+00:00

It's current year. There is absolutely no reason to get married. Doing so is stupid or ignorant. You'd more than likely be marrying a woman with a high N count who couldn't love you even if she wanted to. Sure, I know she lied to you, low n count loves you, yadda yadda yadda.

While the divorce rate is 50% you need to remember that the infidelity rate is at least 60% and some report 75% and the happiness rate for people who stay married is 50%.

If you get married there's a 50% you'll be divorced. There's a 60% chance one or both of you will cheat. If you stay married there's only a 50% chance you'll be happy.

The facts are clear, you get married, you've got a 1/4 chance it'll work.

redrummilf · 2016-05-20T17:31:44+00:00

Perfect analogy.

This is what should be asked before either party says "I do"

RedditAdminsSuck_88 · 2016-05-20T18:25:52+00:00

I'd say its more like a big parlay card in which you have to hit every item on the card or else you lose your bet, with the only difference being the payout for a parlay is a good sum, but the payout for marriage is not.

In other words, astronomical odds, low payout. No, not worth it.

Areu4realm8 · 2016-05-20T19:32:00+00:00

Even when i was bluepilled i didnt want to get married. i have never understood people who want to,especially redpillers. what the hell. what do you think you will get in a marriage? a life of happiness? are people that dumb.

im lucky, becaus i never wanted a family, since i was 10yo i knew it it wasnt for me.

i didnt know the the term beta then, but i always looked at people who cant wait to marry as peasants. lol

i always dreamed to be like hugh hefner.

MattyAnon · 2016-05-20T21:57:32+00:00

(50% divorce rate)

It's more like 60%, and approx 75% of the time the woman files the papers. A large proportion of the 25% remaining the woman gets the man to file the papers (because that's how women are). So >75% of divorces are female-initiated.

Even a "successful" marriage is a terrible fucking deal. You've got less than a 10% chance of having a sex life in 10 years time.

Relationships end. That's the harsh truth. And when they end I expect to leave, not to start handing over my money to her.

erps1rsvp · 2016-05-20T19:34:12+00:00

This was a fun read, by chance does anyone have a film that touches on the topic? I'd love to see how they tackle the subject

TheYoungOwl_ · 2016-05-20T17:23:26+00:00

Well if we can get someone in political power who can change the laws regarding marriage than yes I may be interested.

mfaboats · 2016-05-20T22:44:34+00:00

I come from a very rich family and I'm only 19 but I want to continue my family's legacy. I want children who will continue running our business' after I retire.

Is this beta thinking?

2016-05-20T22:21:27+00:00

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greencrack · 2016-05-21T02:24:38+00:00

If she's loaded and your never gonna be then seems like a good gamble.

2016-05-21T03:22:59+00:00

An interesting fact I learned a while ago, the 50% divorce rate statistic is misleading as two demographics do the majority of divorcing and it heavily skews the data.

If you're married before 25 you're at a relatively high risk for divorce.

If you stem from a family of low socioeconomic status and or have little to no higher education.

DforDeadpool · 2016-05-20T19:57:57+00:00

Okay..

My uncle is unhappily married with a child, the bitch threatens him to do her will because if he doesn't he can't see his daughter ever again. Disgusting but true.

A friend's wife, out of nowhere, divorced him while riding Chads' cocks and took all of his wealth. Now he just says "I wasn't married, I was just got robbed by a thief".

Another relative, he's a really good man and all my family loves him, he got married. They had 2 children. After 10-12 years, his wife decided to slut up, she started to neglect her children, visiting bars and clubs, returning to home drunk at the middle of the night, a big greasy salad of "questionable". Eventually she ruined a perfectly fine man.

Don't get married if. Never. There's a little exception, do get married if you want children but don't forget to slut-test your to-be wife before marrying. Slut-test her like crazy. Because once a slut, always a slut. And sluts make horrible wives, horrible mothers.

Tarnsman4Life · 2016-05-20T22:23:04+00:00

The world sucks for men like me who want to raise children in a nuclear family. I'm terrified to get married but don't want to be a genetic dead end

2016-05-21T00:28:36+00:00

This is a creative way of framing it but I'm not sure it's necessary at this point. Most top-tier guys are opting out or will be after their marriages fail. Women change after marriage. I always tell my friends who are pondering, "if you like the girl you're dating now, you better love the 180 she does once she has you."

mitzibishi · 2016-05-21T06:43:58+00:00

My neighbor told me his wedding cost 30 grand. Thirty fucking thousand dollars. He is a senior tech at a car dealership, so that must have been at least half a year slaving away. She doesn't work. She is hot, but no where near that hot. Regardless of what happens in the future, just the cost of that one day is beyond comprehension to me. If she really cared about their future, couldn't that money have been invested in something that would be around tomorrow? Can't you get a cake and small ceremony and the courthouse if she really was about their life together? No, its all about the fantasy and outdoing her friends. I can see the envy in his stare when I ride up on my motorcycle. He could have had a stable of bikes, instead of that one night.

lestratege · 2016-05-21T11:09:17+00:00

When it comes to marriage, many people still delude themselves into the whole "Live Happily Ever After" fairy tale.

An interesting thing is how fairy tales in French do not end with "live happily ever after" but with "They got married and had lots of kids". It's actually more realistic about what marriage is about.

People are more likely now more than ever to get divorced (50% divorce rate) and the guy gets screwed over in regards to alimony or child support.

In the US yes. And that rate isn't really what you seem to think it is. The divorce rate is a yearly rate. If the big generation of babyboomers divorce en masse at retirement while the smaller generation of gen Y doesn't marry at all, then the divorce rate will appear super high. That rate is not the chance of an individual marriage to end in divorce (for that you need longitunidal studies that are much rarer)

Also, there are countries where there is no alimony since divorce ends responsibility towards the spouse or the standard division of assets is not 50/50.

So with that in mind, would you take that bet?

Considering that Chile's divorce rate is 3% and Belgium is 71%, it's gonna really depend on where you get married.

Don't get married, fine. But let's not pretend that children are not better off with married parents.

true_detective_sf · 2016-05-20T19:51:38+00:00

I'm not pro marriage, but we should always keep our facts straight. People are not more likely now than ever before to get divorced.

Divorce rates increased in the 1970s and 1980s, but in the last 20 years they have dropped. Divorce rates are now lower than in the 70s, 80s, or 90s. 70 percent of marriages that began in the 1990s reached their 15th anniversary. The institution of marriage seems to be making some repair.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/02/upshot/the-divorce-surge-is-over-but-the-myth-lives-on.html

Overkillengine · 2016-05-21T04:13:56+00:00

Marriage may not be a good deal for men but using the 50% number as gospel is silly. The actual rate for non-dumbasses is much lower. Beta Billy gets divorced half the time because he's an idiot and ignored a pile of red flags because he was in love.

It may not be a risk you're willing to take even with a low chance of divorce but the chance should be much lower than 50% if you pay attention here at all.

meh613 · 2016-05-20T21:15:46+00:00

People are more likely now more than ever to get divorced (50% divorce rate)

No, you're statistic implies that people are equally likely now to get divorced. And the rate skews older. So, while I agree that marriage isn't worth it for any number of reasons, an incorrect statistic detracts from an, otherwise, sound argument.

2016-05-20T19:08:48+00:00

Concerning the laws in the USA. If a guy and a woman mix up together, make 2-3 kids, both of them are earning money (lets say equal or close to equal amount of money). But they do not get married.

In the case of separation does woman have the right to ask only for custody and alimony. Or she can also ask for your "personal wealth" house, car...?

2016-05-21T00:16:49+00:00

I haven't been married or look at the details for prenups, but wouldn't that make it so that everything in this anology make no sense the the two parties agreed to one?

Tarnsman4Life · 2016-05-21T01:48:02+00:00

I think age-gap marriage is the way to go. By the time she starts looking like a truck, you're getting too old to care. I would say you want a minimum of a 20 year gap, especially if you want kids. In fact if you don't want kids, there's no point at all. If you have kids, you can design your will so more of your stuff goes to them instead of her.

Tarnsman4Life · 2016-05-21T02:48:47+00:00

Unless the woman is like the heiress to a fortune it is not worth it. Guy I worked with, came up Upper Middle Class but very old school, classical education, well traveled. He married the heiress to one of the top 20 fortunes in the US. Even with the pre-nump HE signed when he walked away after a few years of her having no social skills he got around 20 million.

That is where he fucked up; he already had a 17 year old from Marriage #1 and decided to marry a 30 year old real estate broker when he was 55. She knew he didnt want kids, guess what happened during the Honey-Moon? Yep, knocked up. A year later she leaves him, gets sole custody, half of his money and takes the kid out of state so he never sees the child.

Unless it is in your favor which it almost never is, DO NOT GET MARRIED.

Another case point, I was in the grocery store the other day. Saw a very soulless looking, 1000 yard stare late 40's guy, obviously a painter or a Sheet-rock guy by his clothing, good shape but graying hair, long face, he looked like he was carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders. Has 3 daughters with him from about age 6-10. Girls are hounding him to buy this and that saying Mommy lets them buy it, he finally snaps and says "Well the State pays for all of mommy's food, Daddy can't just buy whatever he wants".

I can assume this guy got bent over and ass fucked in the divorce and is now just a soulless husk of a man, busting his ass 60 hours a week just to survive and pay off his ex.

EvrythingISayIsRight · 2016-05-21T07:00:25+00:00

Question: what about foreign women? I dont think they have fucked up divorce courts in 3rd world countries.

Sepean · 2016-05-21T07:39:05+00:00

If you're in a common law jurisdiction, just living together sets you up for divorce rape just as if you were married; you would be way better off married with a prenup.

There is also stuff like tax benefits to consider and weigh against the risk (and for example for working couples the divorce rape won't be rapey at all if they had similar incomes).

In short, consider your jurisdiction and specific situation even before you move in with a girl and figure out if marriage is the right course, especially in common law jurisdictions where just living together gets you legally married.

harsha_hs · 2016-05-21T07:54:47+00:00

What do u do if she just quits her job? Why the fuck she has to ask ur suggestion

asktrpquestion34 · 2016-05-21T13:36:43+00:00

If you have or hope to have children and hope to have at least joint custody when things go sour, it puts you in a better position if you are married to and have been living with your mother's child. Since a lot of places assume common law status after a certain amount of time living together, a lot of the risks you're associating with marriage come about by just living with a woman.

If you don't want kids or don't want custody, I see no reason at all to get married.

TheKandyCinema · 2016-05-21T16:53:34+00:00

This is actually a really good analogy.

So a friend comes up to you with the bet, and you accept thinking that it's a good bet and you might as well take it because you know the person well enough.

At the first quarter of the game, it's going pretty good. You and your friend sit down with a beer, and have a general good time. Game is close, things are fine. Nothing too serious. Kinda like the honeymoon stage.

At the second quarter, you and your friend start betting money on the spot for who is going to make the next shot. Everytime you think Curry will hit the 3 pointer, but Irving always makes it. You keep handing out money. This is sort of the mid-way stage. Men buy their wives almost anything they want, a purse, a ring. You name it. If they don't do it, they're assholes and you don't want to be an asshole in this bet.

At the third quarter, your friend starts to get a bit tired as he ate too much and constantly demands that you go get him more food and beer. You wanna see the game, but you can't because you need to make sure your friend stays happy in the bet. This is the stage where the man has to work in the marriage to support it, while the wife gets to stay home. Men don't get to see their kid very often either because they are working to support the family and can be compared to the game itself.

At the fourth quarter, the Warriors go up by 15 points and your friend starts to get really mad. The alcohol is kicking in and he starts arguing with you about the entirety of your friendship, and the bet itself. At this point, you're arguing so much that you aren't even watching the game (start caring less about the kid when you argue too much). All of the sudden, the Cavaliers make the points back and are now leading the game with 1 minute left. The Cavaliers keep making their free throws and win the game. You've lost the bet. Your friend is happy and you are forced to give up half of everything you own. Your friend works minimum wage at Walmart, while you sit making six figures.

Hokuto199x · 2016-05-21T01:29:46+00:00

I just took the plunge myself a few weeks ago. In terms of what expected incomes will be in a few years unless I do some drastic shit hers will eclipse mine by far. Mine was a no risk bet really. We're unusual people. Still I'm a man and she's a woman and everything that comes with that, but I am also a man armed with what I've learned from other men here, and I am the best judge of my own situation.

uniquevoid · 2016-05-21T13:07:36+00:00

There is a big fear of marriage in this forum which even though it is justified, sometimes you guys forget that in order to make a marriage work you need to do your job first

Ok guys before you shoot me down for saying this listen

It is your reponsibility to find the right woman. Hear we talk a lot about being taking responsibility but when it comes to marriage its always 'she will screw you' 'the law is against you'

Find the right woman and it will be unlikely that it happens to you.

My tips:

-Religious women -Small town women -Everyone in her family has been married for long -Must be 18-22 years old

Title	Still Thinking About Marriage? Think of It Like a No Benefit Sports Bet.
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	274
Comments	213
Date	May 20, 2016 4:40 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/4k93tb/still_thinking_about_marriage_think_of_it_like_a/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/still-thinking-about-marriage-think-of-it-like-a.59260 https://theredarchive.com/post/59260

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