Men of PPD, how have you come to accept the 80-20 rule?

wtknight · 2020-07-20T13:29:39+00:00

Removed. No internal questions (men asking men questions or women asking women questions)

throw_me_away_133 · 2020-07-20T10:12:45+00:00

I generally accept it but I haven’t fully accepted it tbh.

My reasons: 1. I date attractive women quite often and that means that I fall within the top 20%. I don’t think I do.

I don’t think the bottom 50% of women are sleeping with the top 20%. I don’t sleep with anyone I’m not attracted to. The women I sleep with are far above 50%. And I very very rarely see men who fall within the top 20% sleep with bottom 50% of women.

Eastuss · 2020-07-20T09:41:39+00:00

It was just always there, like gravity.

The annoying part is when society denies this and even puts up rules so you don't have outlets or you are controlled in how you can partake in the "competition".

2020-07-20T09:54:57+00:00

Nothing wrong with it, just hate when women gaslight men about it.

Kaisha001 · 2020-07-20T11:25:21+00:00

I've flipped flopped back and forth across it over my life. So if I ever need to date again, I'll make sure I'm back above it and reap the rewards.

edit: I see a lot of comments denying its existence. I've been on both sides of 'chad-hood' and it does exist.

Laytheblameonluck · 2020-07-20T14:18:01+00:00

To be honest I find this 80-20 thing to be garbage. It's not longitudinal.

geyejoe7 · 2020-07-20T09:58:56+00:00

This is ONLY true for dating apps.

If you actually go outside, and take a look at couples, you can often see more women dating less attractive men.

Obviously not every one of those men has a 10 incher in his pants, or 1M$ in his bank. And not every one of those women is just hot and has nothing else to offer.

So it must be something other than his looks that attracts those women. Which kind of defeats the 80/20 rule.

And I would say "outliers exist" but there are too many examples for everyday life to point to.

Dating apps in general just exaggerate reality, making it seem as though the 80/20 rule applies IRL aswell.

When in reality, approaching women IRL is much better. She might not wanna pass up a cheerful, polite young lad that is a 5-6/10. Whereas on dating apps where you can show 0% of your personality, this doesn't hold. Because she doesn't know anything about you. So why would she assume better of a 5/10 dude than a 8/10 dude?

JesterMcGavin · 2020-07-20T10:43:53+00:00

I'm lucky - After I realized the validity of the 80/20 rule, I instantly lost about 95% of my attraction to women. They became like guys are to me, or any other straight guy - just another human. Sex went from the Holy Grail of love and connection I could never obtain, to a farce of a ritualistic exchange of vile-smelling bodily fluids and sweat. Women went from the beautiful, mysterious, angelic creatures of everything blessed that I saw them as, to... well, just other people. Gross, annoying, and fuckin weird. Definitely not something I want to mess with anymore.

Edit: I DON'T keep myself sane. That's the secret. :D

TheBookOfSeil · 2020-07-20T10:14:11+00:00

I just focus on myself. I don't try to impress or date anyone. I don't care if anyone sees value in me or not. It's not for them.

I mostly spend my time alone or with some close friends. I browse reddit, watch movies and anime, take college courses, learn about random and interesting stuff, exercise occasionally, sleep, etc.

momentumguy · 2020-07-20T11:17:49+00:00

The 80/20 rule is not based on Tinder exclusively, thats just where it is apparent. Online dating statistics, data about sexlessness in men, speed dating and height, all point towards it. Exceptions or anecdotal experience doesn't invalidate the rule (which is a general guideline not a set in stone law).

Dolokhov88 · 2020-07-20T11:28:13+00:00

Well I guess just trying to have fun in life and not obsess about sex and dating so much. Life is so much more. Life the life you want to live and a partner to fit that life will follow.

And on the contrary, after having had several extremely bad experiences with hot and seemingly smart girls in relationships, FWB and hookup scenarios, I actually avoid them now. If you're more than a HB6 I automatically distrust you and assume you have at least double my n-count (which increases the probability of STDs in hookups and cheating/ leaving for another guy/ the glorious single life in LTRs)

roundabout44 · 2020-07-20T11:52:20+00:00

Since I am in the top 20% I reap the benefits. Whenever I see a dude approaching and winning, I cheer for him so hard, unless he's cringey of course, then I laugh at a comedy sketch.

I also dedicate some of my time here online to hopefully educate men because I feel great satisfaction when a guy scores. I guess it's my way of coping with the unfairness of the sexual market.

To be clear, I do not endorse rape, lying, or anything forced, I truly enjoy when a guy organically scores, even if it's a pump & dump.

psypD · 2020-07-20T13:23:59+00:00

Oh. I am way above just 1 in 5 in terms of looks...It's just that my personality is utter shit.

Laytheblameonluck · 2020-07-20T10:00:29+00:00

The data for the 80-20 rule came from Tinder, but the thing is Tinder isn't real life.

All the data is saying is that men are more sociosexual than women. We already know this from the Hatfield studies in the 80s where they had women proposition men for sex vs men proposition women for sex - much much more men said yes than women.

And the assumption that 80% are left to compete against 20% is wrong as it presumes monogamy and there's no guarantee of that on Tinder.

Tinder provides a very one dimensional view of desirability.

There is evidence that smell is an important aspect of female desire and in these studies there is no 80-20 distribution.

See "smell dating".

NeilYoungFanBoy · 2020-07-20T12:47:26+00:00

I’ve been getting with cute women pretty consistently ever since I was a teenager, so I guess I’m forced to accept that I’m in the top 20% of men. This is great news for me since I’m 5’8, socially anxious, asthmatic and effeminately bisexual. Feels good to be a Chad 😎

xFallacyx69 · 2020-07-20T10:31:06+00:00

Get off Tinder. Go hang out with women IRL (not for the sex).

Suck-Less · 2020-07-20T10:31:40+00:00

It’s hard to quantify. It exists but its flexible. Much comes from dating apps however that’s not always realistic. From what I’ve seen, guys will right swipe anything in mass bulk and see what comes in. So it looks like there’s a real imbalance. Would these guys go out with everyone they right swiped? I don’t think so.

Another part of the issue is with all the focus on social media telling young men that it’s sexual harassment to approach women IRL. This, plus youth, plus normalized alienation of fathers from their children, sets up a: “online is IRL” mentality.

What the 80/20 rule really represents is how many men were raised desperately seeking the approval of women. In my day we called these guys “pussy whipped” today they are everywhere.

In my opinion, this is gonna get so much worse, because all of this feeds female arrogance and feminist female supremacy.

One more generation and 80% of men will beg for her approval and 20% of men will tell her to fuck off if she smiles at him. It’s what happens when feminism in the schools and online tells girls “you go girl” and boys “do better.”

So, how have I accepted it. Simple, I’ve learned that there is a “type” of woman that is attracted to me. Fortunately, I like that type of woman. I’ve also learned that cultures are different and how men are treated is different.

I learned a long time ago, to simply not waste my time with American women. It was one of the top three decisions of my life.

Kyogan · 2020-07-20T10:19:30+00:00

Do you mean...how I came to accept that it's true?

Well, it pretty much confirms itself once you get outside really.

I'm not 20% but I ascended had some fun and don't have high standards and don't mind paying cheap hookers, and have some fun destroying people's egos and I love working too. My life isn't great because I'm always depressed (because of previous events) but I know that if my previous events didn't happen I would have been the happiest man in the world despite it not being much and not being 20%.

I never liked social media, never compare myself to others, and never tried to "fit in".

But I also never wanted to be rich, never wanted to have the hottest girlfriend, nor wanted to have the biggest house, nor the biggest family so I think that most unhappiness comes from the fact that men either don't have anything or are not satisfied with what they have (I've seen a lot of men that have everything that a man wants and still aren't happy).

And that's how I'm almost happy, because I'm a simple man.

Anthony-waltzs · 2020-07-20T11:31:02+00:00

It is what it is there’s no reason to be upset about it because individually you can not change it but, you can inform men and tell them about this rule, so they will not slave their life away and become fixated to please a woman that never even liked him back. It takes the pressure off my back a lot to be honest. I know I’m not Chad and I know I’m not ugly either, so I know where I stand in the SMV market compared to other men.

theguytheguy1000 · 2020-07-20T12:04:32+00:00

be in the 20%

Lethl- · 2020-07-20T12:31:11+00:00

Accept THE rule? We'll always choice top shelf. Girls or guys, then we work our self down the list... If we go far enough down, we'll replace it with something better eventually... Always did, and always will.

If you ever felt you got a good card, you should be worried. Likely your not the top pick for your partner.... Such a wonderful thought.

akaean · 2020-07-20T12:41:51+00:00

Since you guys have been browsing this forum for quite a time now, how have you come to accept this fact

Bold of you to assume I've "come to accept this fact".

What you are doing is a logical fallacy where you assume the question. As others in this thread have pointed out aptly, all of the data for the 80-20 rule comes from studies, generally of Tinder and OKC. However there are major flaws with this data.

First, is that the culture of Tinder has developed specifically to make women more choosy, and men less choosy. This is because Tinder itself is highly over saturated with men, and there is a resulting culture of women using the platform to be more choosy as a result of choice overload and men using the platform to be less choosy and many adopting a strategy of "like" everyone and sort once they have matches.

The 80-20 rule, to the extent that it is a "rule" is just hyperbole and designed to invoke desperation and sadness. Take a walk down the street and observe the couples there. You will see no evidence of the 80-20 rule. It is only possibly relevant for online dating, and only because of the over saturation of men on that market.

The "proof" for this rule I see most often cited is an OKC blog post. https://www.gwern.net/docs/psychology/okcupid/yourlooksandyourinbox.html

The problems with the OKC Blog post are that it doesn't explain its methodology.

Our chart shows how men have rated women, on a scale from 0 to 5.

Okay... well... what am I supposed to do with this? What is the sample size of men? Don't know, they didn't tell us. How many pictures did each man rate? Don't know, they didn't tell us. You have to accept that this isn't a scientific study, and we have no way to verify these results.

I hate to break it to you... this is an interesting blog post, and it raises some interesting questions... but it isn't scientific. This does not prove that the 80-20 rule exists and we can't even appropriate analyze the study.

Even assuming that the data is statistically significant and done using appropriate sample sizes, the article doesn't actually say what incels and red pillers want it to say. This goes into my general theory that in order to be "red pilled" you need to have poor reading comprehension and critical thinking skills and only selectively read things you want. Seriously, I'm pretty sure red pillers don't post their sources because the easiest way to beat a red piller in an argument is to actually read their own source. That is why they just say things like- "that OKC study that proved the 80-20 rule" and expect people to take their word for it.

ANYWAY, here are a few fun excerpts from that same blog post, to put things into perspective, and poke holes into the Red Pill worldview...

Site-wide, two-thirds of male messages go to the best-looking third of women. So basically, guys are fighting each other 2-for-1 for the absolute best-rated females, while plenty of potentially charming, even cute, girls go unwritten.

Here is another interesting fact, from the same blog post about the distribution women send messages at.

On the other hand, when it comes to actual messaging, women shift their expectations only just slightly ahead of the curve, which is a healthier pattern than guys’ pursuing the all-but-unattainable.

Well. Both of these facts seem to undercut the incel narrative that 80% of women only sleep with 20% of men. First the blog post only talks about appraisals and messages. Second, women are messaging men they rate below average. I am not going to sit here and psychoanalyze entire populations from this data, because people are individuals... but even taking the blog post at face value... it doesn't support a red pilled worldview.

drok007 · 2020-07-20T12:49:48+00:00

I guess I’ve always just chose to live my life in the >90% so accepting it isn’t an issue.

Pastelitomaracucho · 2020-07-20T10:22:31+00:00

By trying to reach that 20% and knowing what my market is:

12% bodyfat and fit, well-dressed, Masters degree, own my own business, well-traveled.

AND I was born in a third world shithole AND I am brown and short in a country full of blonde, tall people.

Lastly, by being very selective: I know the subset o women that do feel raw attraction for me and I won't focus on those who are not interested.

It's really not that difficult when the bar is so fucking low. Especially when people in the first world are born with all the opportunities they have.

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SeemedGood · 2020-07-20T12:09:36+00:00

Nah. Because either I'm in that top 20%, or the idea is flawed.

Best I get is ”kinda cute” so I'm going with flawed. 80-20 doesn't accept the idea of "type". I'm not universally attractive but I am some women's type.

Title	Men of PPD, how have you come to accept the 80-20 rule?
Author	MentleGentlemen098
Upvotes	11
Comments	155
Date	July 20, 2020 9:27 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/huibda/men_of_ppd_how_have_you_come_to_accept_the_8020/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/men-of-ppd-how-have-you-come-to-accept-the-80-20.715496 https://theredarchive.com/post/715496

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