Men cannot be victims, and if they are, they brought it on themselves -The Judicial College of Victoria, Australia.

apeironman · 2019-10-24T14:02:00+00:00

Just...wow. They don't even try to hide the bias.

Cromwellity · 2019-10-24T15:24:24+00:00

“Were you at fault, in any way in causing her violence?

This question serves two purposes. First, to assess whether he did anything that caused her to act in self-defence, or to retaliate.

Second, people who are genuinely the victims often excuse the perpetrator to some degree and blame themselves for the violence.”

Can you just imagine the outrage if you ever applied this circular logic when talking about women!?!?

Total lack of self awareness on display

Gimpy1405 · 2019-10-24T14:24:46+00:00

A ton of bias there.

lolzorken · 2019-10-24T15:12:34+00:00

I swear I lose braincells everytime i go on this subreddit to see what bullshit the feminists are saying now

TheDwiin · 2019-10-24T14:47:45+00:00

I find it funny that most feminist don't see the victim blaming aspect of this practice. But it doesn't harm women so they don't care.

Egalitarianwhistle · 2019-10-24T15:17:44+00:00

" Were you at fault, in any way in causing her violence? This question serves two purposes. First, to assess whether he did anything that caused her to act in self-defence, or to retaliate. Second, people who are genuinely the victims often excuse the perpetrator to some degree and blame themselves for the violence. "

So if the man blames himself for the violence we can leave it at that. If he doesn't blame himself that is evidence that he wasn't really abused.

Reintroversion · 2019-10-24T20:10:30+00:00

This is actually gaslighting to make men feel guilt and shame for being men. Wait till they start pushing this onto young boys in schools.

I mean what's it going to take? One of these low testosterone politicians to have his laws used against him by his wife? I pray for the day that politicians are walking around with restraining orders on their rap sheets because if this doesn't prove they think they're a class above the rest of us then nothing will.

Roary93 · 2019-10-24T18:34:07+00:00

As an Aussie, this is extremely embarrassing and unbelievable. Just wrong on so many levels

Lethn · 2019-10-24T15:28:39+00:00

Are you afraid of her? What are you afraid that she might do? If a man does not feel significant levels of fear, then this raises questions about his victim status.

Fuck off Judicial College Of Victoria, just fuck off, feminists are not mature and intelligent enough to debate domestic violence because they constantly pull shit like this, they would never ask a woman these questions. Seriously, why do people let these utter children control the narrative on such serious issues?

Sewblon · 2019-10-24T21:17:27+00:00

The majority of women who use some form of violence towards their partner have been subjected to (worse) violence by that man before, or on the same occasion.

I don't think that that is true. Having been the victim of domestic violence in the past is not a greater predictor of committing violence for women than it is for men. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/307612278_Gender_Differences_in_Risk_Markers_for_Perpetration_of_Physical_Partner_Violence_Results_from_a_Meta-Analytic_Review

If you just go by self-report, self-defense accounts for a minority of domestic violence incidents perpetrated by both men and women. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/272209909_Motivations_for_Men_and_Women's_Intimate_Partner_Violence_Perpetration_A_Comprehensive_Review

kahuna5555 · 2019-10-24T19:14:41+00:00

That's genuinely one of the most disturbing things I've ever read.

What the actual fuck.

omegaphallic · 2019-10-24T18:54:46+00:00

If I was a male Australian victim of Domestic Violence I would consider sueing these scumbags.

pwinne · 2019-10-24T21:51:30+00:00

My now deceased ex wife was a poly substance abuser (alcohol and codeine) primarily brought about by sexual abuse by her adoptive father. Everytime she got tanked and abused the kids, I would leave with the kids and ring the police. And everytime they would ask me what I did to her to make her so abusive.. They eventually took out an interim IVO awarding the kids to her and 18 months laster she died of overdose. The system here is fucked.

Kuato2012 · 2019-10-24T19:21:47+00:00

The research evidence and experience of family violence professionals unambiguously demonstrates that relatively few men in heterosexual relationships are solely victims of intimate partner violence.

Flagrantly incorrect. According to the American Journal of Public Health, 12% of heterosexual relationships are reciprocally violent, 3.6% of relationships show the man being solely violent toward the woman, and 8.4% show the woman being solely violent toward the man. I have no reason to suspect that Australian data are terribly different, and that is not some tiny fraction to be so flippantly dismissed on a systematic level.

This is another example of why we need Men's Rights as a movement. Feminism will not fly in to save us here (in fact, the "men are monsters" dogma that feminism has been pushing for decades has very likely contributed to the problem in this instance).

ModsHateTruth · 2019-10-24T15:18:20+00:00

Civilization cannot long survive without men willing to build and maintain it.

FenixDelta753 · 2019-10-24T15:42:15+00:00

Yet another example of, If the roles were reversed would it be a problem. If it is, there's something majorly wrong...

Opinion12345 · 2019-10-24T21:20:49+00:00

LOLOLOLOLOLOL They list this as an appropriate question for men "claiming" to be victims.....

Were you at fault, in any way in causing her violence?

Holy fucking shit.

Zantarius · 2019-10-24T21:21:52+00:00

I have a friend who I've known since he was born and I was two. We used to talk all the time, our families went on vacations together, we'd hang out whenever possible. I haven't so much as spoken to him in years. Why? His girlfriend.

She perpetually isolates him. She demands so much money from him that he has to spend almost all his time working, and when he isn't working she demands that he spend time with her and her family. He doesn't have a phone of his own, because she told him it would be "too expensive" (meanwhile insisting he pay for her phone, as well as for several bills for her family). He uses her phone instead, when she lets him that is. He rarely ever talks to his parents anymore, and usually when he does it's because his girlfriend has demanded he ask his mom for money. I can't prove where he got them, but the few times I've managed to see him while they've been together he's been pretty bruised up, and he's not a physical guy. She, on the other hand, is bigger than him, has schizophrenia, refuses medication, and has been arrested for violently assaulting police officers before.

Now, here's the really fucked up part. If you were to ask him if she was to blame for abusing him, he'd probably say no. She's got him wrapped around her finger to the point where he's willing to fully excuse all her behaviour. If you asked him if he was scared of her, he'd say no. Not necessarily because it's true, but because he feels like he needs to protect her.

If their genders were reversed, I could've called somebody by now. I could've gotten my friend out of there. But, instead, I have to worry that any call I make will get my friend arrested instead of his abuser. And it's shit like this that guarantees that situation will remain well into the future.

Excuse me as I go find a corner in which to scream and cry now.

Luchadorgreen · 2019-10-24T22:16:11+00:00

This is fucking SCARY.

Were you at fault, in any way in causing her violence? This question serves two purposes. First, to assess whether he did anything that caused her to act in self-defence, or to retaliate. Second, people who are genuinely the victims often excuse the perpetrator to some degree and blame themselves for the violence.

This seems like it could be set up as a Kafka trap. If he says that he’s at fault, he will be taken at his word. If he says that he’s not at fault, he probably won’t be believed because most victims “blame themselves”.

Men who are genuinely victims of violence from female partners or other family members (e.g. adolescent or adult children) might be assisted by:

I severely doubt that they would use the word “genuinely” when referring to female victims (it will be assumed to be genuine by default). This is systemic gender discrimination.

Edit: Here is their Twitter account if you want to let them know how they’re wrong: https://mobile.twitter.com/judicialcollege?lang=en

2019-10-24T20:12:56+00:00

Fuck. This. Clown World....

2019-10-24T15:28:36+00:00

Maybe what we need is an actual complete break down of society first. Stuff like this will get us there.

raffu280 · 2019-10-24T16:48:07+00:00

It seems all the West's institutions have now been infiltrated by leftist political activists who are bent on destroying men and masculinity now.

_NlGGER_ · 2019-10-24T20:53:47+00:00

WTF happened to Australia

kunimiya · 2019-10-24T22:11:37+00:00

The part of "establish wether men are actually the victim" is so demeaning and cruel. It's like when people tell women "are you sure he slapped you because he was mad or did you say something? You know you have to please your man". Jesus.

BlueOrange22 · 2019-10-24T22:45:37+00:00

This is why feminism is not enough to address male issues, and why we need a men's movement. It's also why I don't believe SJWs when they say they oppose harmful gender stereotypes...this is perpetuating a harmful gender stereotype.

This is pure victim blaming.

Often, men who are genuinely victims of family violence experience the violence from a same sex partner, carer or a male relative.

Only recognizing males as perpetrators.

Men who are the principle users of family violence often try to present as a victim or the victim of violence. Sometimes they succeed in convincing themselves, police and others. This is because:

This is horrifying sentence to read. 'Even convince themselves', this is training to police to not only automatically dismiss male victims, but to see them as the perpetrators.

Were you at fault, in any way in causing her violence?

I honestly can't believe I'm reading that. 100% victim blaming...asking if he is at 'fault' for the violence. This is what feminist 'equality' looks like.

What's so terrifying about this is that it's on official government position, it's the bench book and an actual part of the legal system. Imagine being a male DV victim in Victoria, and calling the police...the actual police procedure is to assume you're lying and actually guilty.

livegamer999 · 2019-10-24T21:49:37+00:00

There are a number of questions a judicial officer can consider asking when a man presents as an affected family member (even in a police application), including:

Have you ever been violent towards your partner?

Ok whatever. It's still insane that when a man comes as a victim of abuse the first question is "but did you do something wrong" almost like saying "did you do something to deserve this"...

Were you at fault, in any way in causing her violence? This question serves two purposes. First, to assess whether he did anything that caused her to act in self-defence, or to retaliate. Second, people who are genuinely the victims often excuse the perpetrator to some degree and blame themselves for the violence.

This is just horrible. Firstly it's asking "did you do something to deserve it" wich is inhumane. Secondly whatever the guy says he's in wrong. If he says some reason it will be used against him and if he doesn't then they'll use that against him because "people who are genuinely the victims often excuse the perpetrator to some degree and blame themselves for the violence."

Also I can't believe that this whole paper talks about if the man abused the woman before while it's supposed to be about "how to react with men who declare being abused"

lesbefriendly · 2019-10-24T22:26:18+00:00

Is there evidence of the man using controlling attitudes, beliefs and behaviours, or having rigid attitudes towards gender roles?

Maybe it's just me, but I can't imagine a man that has "rigid attitudes towards gender roles" (I assume they mean "thinks women are subservient") claiming to be a victim of violence from a woman.

kahuna5555 · 2019-10-24T22:51:14+00:00

I've been stabbed by an ex partner and even as I was staunching the blood spurting out of my shoulder I remember thinking not to kick out at her as even a bruise to her shin would allow her to play the self defence card.

Luckily the police 100% believed me (no marks on her, a leaking shoulder, scratches across my neck and a bite mark on my wrist sort of helped!) and I never felt under suspicion but i cant imagine the (further) damage that wouldve been done if some one started asking me what I had done, as the implication wouldbe been obvious.

I chose not to press charges as she had a kid and couldn't see the benefit really. Fast forward a few years I see her on twitter telling everyone that she 'had'to stab a 'violent ex who tried to rape me'. Her account is anonymous and there was nothing to identify me but fucking hell, shed be in jail if it wasnt for my kindness.

Women ALWAYS see themselves as victims.

But yeah FoUnD Th3 1nCeL

onecoffeeplease · 2019-10-25T01:26:50+00:00

So... women are not accountable for their actions even when they display a pattern of violence.

"It is important to remember that people experiencing fear or terror will sometimes make bad decisions, which might add to their portrayal as being ‘hysterical’ or ‘out of control’. Women, if they feel safe enough, may undertake small acts of retaliation, which can be construed as ‘evidence’ of a pattern of violence on their part."

Men are accountable for not just their own actions but the actions of a violent woman and what ever the woman might exagerate or simply make up about them.

Men therefore become the victim of a systemic abuse of control which leaves them in despair and often leaves them with no control over access to their children, deep shame being painted as the perpetrator of violence, often with apprehended violence orders or statements against them (that are on their police record) that impact work opportunities and future court/custody hearings, then child support and reduced contact with their children kicks in, the mother/state now controls their finances, relationship with their children and is IMO in conjunction with the state perpetrating abuse against men/fathers.

The abuse has dire consequences that has dire consequences like:

The men: - actually becoming violent out of sheer desperation and despair. - commiting suicide. - resorting to self destructive behaviour (iie drug and alcohol abuse) and depression.

If our country wants to reduce domestic violence then making women accountable for their own actions would be a good start.

B1ue_Guardian · 2019-10-24T22:11:13+00:00

What. The. Fuck.

MarsNirgal · 2019-10-25T00:07:29+00:00

Were you at fault, in any way in causing her violence?

You've gotta be kidding me.

Edit: It gets worse:

This question serves two purposes. First, to assess whether he did anything that caused her to act in self-defence, or to retaliate. Second, people who are genuinely the victims often excuse the perpetrator to some degree and blame themselves for the violence.

So if he's genuinely a victim he will try to excuse her and blame himself. Otherwise he's not to be believed.

DougDante · 2019-10-25T00:26:15+00:00

tweet with me to seek justice:

"Men cannot be victims, and if they are, they brought it on themselves -The Judicial College of Victoria, Australia." Fix @TurnbullMalcolm @agdgovau @HighCourtofAus @AustBarAssoc #MensRights #genderequity https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/dmge59/men_cannot_be_victims_and_if_they_are_they/

and in reply:

"Affirming that every individual is equal before and under the law, and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law, without discrimination on the ground of sex, sexual orientation" Sex Discrimination Act 1984 https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2014C00002

and in reply:

> #HumanRights "all without discrimination on any grounds as the foundations of peaceful, just and stable societies.We note that these rights are universal, indivisible, interdependent and interrelated and cannot be implemented selectively." @commonwealthsec https://thecommonwealth.org/commonwealth-charter-section/human-rights

End of tweet list.

dukunt · 2019-10-24T22:35:45+00:00

Every single thing they said there also applies to women. Did a man do something to make her hysterical?!? What the actual fuck!!! The exact same thing goes for women!! To quote Bill Burr " every single ass kicking doesn't just fall out of the sky!"

InformalCriticism · 2019-10-24T22:50:31+00:00

Pretty much puts words to what we already know is happening in western jurisprudence.

Halafax · 2019-10-25T00:10:14+00:00

Edu.au

Gosh, I just can't understand why men's enrollment is down.

Or why the institutions responsible do basically nothing to correct that issue.

Couldawg · 2019-10-25T02:38:43+00:00

I did a little research on this.

Apparently, the Judicial College of Victoria was established in 2002, by act of the Australian state of Victoria.

http://www.judicialcollege.vic.edu.au/about-us

Its purpose was to provide continuing education for judges, magistrates, and members of the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal. Specifically, the College was founded "with the function of assisting the professional development of judicial officers and providing continuing education and training for judicial officers."

http://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/jcova2001242/s1.html

"Continuing education" for judges, magistrates and lawyers, is supposed to focus on the LAW, and recent changes thereto.

This "curriculum" has nothing to do with the law. It is designed for one purpose... to foster anti-male prejudice among those who are supposed to remain unprejudiced.

According to the curriculum web page, it has been posted since 2011. That means that this garbage has been formally taught (not merely disseminated) for at least seven years. It has been presented as "truth." It contains no supporting evidence, but that doesn't matter... it is in a "handbook."

How many judicial officers have believed it? How many judges have ruled on the basis of this "truth?"

Apply the same scenario to schools around the world. People attend school to learn. They assume that what they are taught is true, or at least earnestly founded. When you graduate and venture into the world, you want to feel confident that all the truths you were taught *are actually true. If it turns out they aren't, how hard would that be to accept... that you weren't taught, but indoctrinated?

This type of indoctrination is occurring in colleges and universities around the world. Is it any surprise the world is going nuts?

Universities are quite literally "unteaching" reality. Social science departments have invented their own "woke" versions of all the other departments' curricula.

Biology? A mere social construct!

History? A fabrication from the beginning!

Math? Racist and oppressive!

Economics? Dark magic!

English? Words mean whatever you want!

The point of indoctrination is to build a desirable and useful reality in the mind of the subject; to create sets of eyes and ears that see and hear the world in a particular way.

Students are not being asked to question their traditional reality or to think critically about what they think they know. Instead, students are being told that traditional reality is, without question, wrong, and that their minds should be evacuated. Their professors then fill these vacant minds with their preferred take on reality. Students go along with it, because they are paying for it, and because they are told their futures depend on it.

Again, the date on this curriculum sample is 2011. What happens to a population that is saturated with this nonsense, year after year? It starts to look like it does today.

Queeniac · 2019-10-24T21:28:28+00:00

someone forgot to turn off their ape brain today apparently, this is some dumb shit

FH-7497 · 2019-10-24T21:57:12+00:00

Last updated 2011

BountyChickenGaming · 2019-10-24T22:30:22+00:00

I am ashamed of my own country now.

9001 · 2019-10-24T23:09:02+00:00

This is disgusting.

Kevin_1722 · 2019-10-24T23:21:38+00:00

What if they “suddenly” identify as women. Are they victims now?

TimothyThotDestroyer · 2019-10-25T00:22:04+00:00

So, when are we outdoing D-Day with the landings in Sydney?

_bowlerhat · 2019-10-25T00:56:04+00:00

This kind of stuffs makes me want to move to other states.

Vic is fucked.

Shimmerstorm · 2019-10-25T02:01:12+00:00

My partner has been the victim of Australia's shit system for multiple forms of abuse. He is still trying to get justice for one instance. Thank Julia Gillard for shit like that.

ZimbaZumba · 2019-10-25T13:39:56+00:00

Good grief, I am rarely lost for words but am close to it here. Australia has a BIG problem on its hands. This reads like something from the Chinese Cultural Revolution. The ideologically possessed have taken over Australia.

AgVargr · 2019-10-25T00:32:51+00:00

"she was asking for it"

hatchettwit2 · 2019-10-25T02:11:08+00:00

As a lady I read through this and immediately thought of one of my friends. He dated a woman for years off and on that may go down in history as the only person I'd ever attack. She abused him a lot, hitting, yelling, talking him down, manipulated him into things (like trying to join the army), broke his property, stalked his friends, work place, and homes, and called the police on him several times.

Specifically one incident comes to mind when they talk about defensive marks and playing it cool. She did this. She harassed him until he left his class to sit in her car and talk, didn't like his answers so she began to scream GET OUT OF MY CAR while slashing at him with her nails. He went to campus cops and she had gone to them first -_- Dude still has scars from those. She was really good at looking like the victim or innocent party.

Boss at Wendys thought I was over reacting when I said let me know immediately if she shows up, I'd call the cops. She's damn lucky she showed up on my off day, I'd have had her ass arrested for the shit she pulled that day.

Cops always sided with her, I know he was hesitant to press charges each time. Dumbass. No coochie is worth putting up with all that.

Juan_Golt · 2019-10-25T03:50:53+00:00

Title	Men cannot be victims, and if they are, they brought it on themselves -The Judicial College of Victoria, Australia.
Author	urammar
Upvotes	1350
Comments	95
Date	October 24, 2019 1:27 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/dmge59/men_cannot_be_victims_and_if_they_are_they/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/men-cannot-be-victims-and-if-they-are-they-brought.866325 https://theredarchive.com/post/866325

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