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Emma Watson Accuses Fashion World Of 'Racism' & 'Sexism' against Women when they make 148.8% more than Men in the Modeling Industry

NotRoosterTeeth

August 11, 2015
787 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://hollywoodlife.com/2015/08/10/emma-watson-gender-equality-fashion-video-vogue-uk/
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Title Emma Watson Accuses Fashion World Of 'Racism' & 'Sexism' against Women when they make 148.8% more than Men in the Modeling Industry
Author

NotRoosterTeeth

Upvotes 787
Comments 156
Date August 11, 2015 1:20 AM UTC
(10 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3gjbyf/emma_watson_accuses_fashion_world_of_racism/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/emma-watson-accuses-fashion-world-of-racism-sexism.973579
https://theredarchive.com/post/973579
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Comments

[–]McFeely_Smackup 206 points207 points208 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I guess attractive women should just get jobs and work for a living like the rest of us then.

[–]pnw_diver 17 points18 points19 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Har har they don't have to do that ya know. UV.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (15 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]not_AtWorkRightNow 74 points75 points76 points 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I feel the same way. It's kinda hard for me to hate her though cause I grew up watching her. But she really isn't qualified to speak on the issues she's speaking on, and she's really missing the mark on equality.

[–]solusaum 32 points33 points34 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I think out of touch more than unqualified. She's no feminist expert but she should be able to say something. Problem is that she is so far removed from the feminist issues of real working people that she comes off as all talk.

[–]not_AtWorkRightNow 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, she should be able to say something, but she ought to limit it to her own experience. She's led such a different life than pretty much anyone out there. She really has no reason to be speaking for women as a group.

[–]PublicolaMinor 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

but she ought to limit it to her own experience.

For heaven's sake, she is talking about racism and sexism in the fashion world when she is herself a fashion model. You don't get much more 'write what you know' than that.

Just because the females employed in the fashion industry earn more money than men does not mean the industry is not permeated by sexism. I mean, given the entire industry is based around attractive people trying to make themselves look even more attractive, is it any wonder there might be a bit of objectification going on behind the scenes?

I also notice no one has said anything against Watson's charge of racism. I don't doubt part of that may be demographics -- advertisers looking to appeal to the most number of people will try to employ models that match the biggest demographic -- but it's old news at this point that there's a lot of casual discrimination and double standards.

[–]baskandpurr[🍰] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If a wage gap indicates sexism when it works against women then it indicates sexism when it works against men.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Neither being sexist isn't really as shocking.

[–]elebrin 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Just because the females employed in the fashion industry earn more money than men does not mean the industry is not permeated by sexism.

How so? They are getting paid very well for what they do. What other outcome do they want? Political power? Eternal youth? What are they NOT getting, exactly, that they think they should be?

It's a job, in the end. The only thing anyone should expect to get out of a job is the compensation (money) they negotiated for. Anything else is pretty damn secondary.

[–]imbecile -4 points-3 points-2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, it wouldn't really work if she just says she is a lesbian to deter all that male attention she gets, which frankly must be suffocating.

Put when you make it very clear you are a feminist, the only men still feeling attracted to her are guys too timid to express it openly or rich enough to can afford to not care.

[–]jimmybrite 18 points19 points20 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I seethe every time I see her on /r/gentlemanboners which is a lot.

Fortunately I keep my comments to myself, downvote and move on.

[–]LoLThatsjustretarded 12 points13 points14 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I've always hated her, starting with how she played Hermione.

Let's all be clear here, if Hermione had been a man, everyone here would want to punch his stuck-up, arrogant, whiny face until his teeth fell out. People only act like she's 'empowering' -- instead of being an obnoxious douche -- because she's female.

But she is not empowering. She is not 'competent'. She's just fucking insufferable.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

She was chosen to play Hermione because she is Hermione.

She is an arrogant, stuck-up whiner.

[–]elebrin 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

She was that way in the books too. I honestly have no idea how I got through the first five now. I really dislike the series now. It had the seeds of something incredible but didn't live up to its potential, in part because of the SJWing that the author glommed on. Although my biggest complaint is overly idealistic characterizations and her use of failed romance as a driver for most of the plot. They aren't fantasy novels, they are romance novels.

[–]Jaykaykaykay 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Starting? I´m way ahead of you :)

[–]captainwmh 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I will never be able to watch Harry Potter in the same way again.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]pnw_diver 16 points17 points18 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

How could you have gotten such an impression?

[+][deleted] 10 years ago (34 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+]celtain -62 points-61 points-60 points 10 years ago (33 children) | Copy Link

She has a degree from Brown. Ivy league admits are rarer than valedictorians, so she's quite possibly smarter than Hermione. (With the obvious caveat that college admissions officers aren't perfect judges of intelligence and Hermione is a fictional character. Emma's gotta be in the same ballpark though.)

[–]Endless_Summer 19 points20 points21 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

So you're saying she's not naive or ignorant, but highly educated. So that means she's purposefully a deceitful, sensationalist, man hater misleading young girls. You're right, what a real piece of shit.

[+]celtain -8 points-7 points-6 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Hey, it's not her fault that you morons don't understand that the fashion industry and the modeling industry are two different things.

[–]Endless_Summer 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So you're saying models don't work in the fashion industry? And we're the morons...

[+][deleted] 10 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+][deleted] 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]cs_anon 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

My friends who went to Brown did so specifically because they were interested in Brown and its culture. Let's not kid ourselves here; there's no way Harvard would reject Emma Watson.

[–]Dinkdanker -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

In England they just call it literature.

[–]Mikouden 10 points11 points12 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

No we don't, we call it English Literature. We also say English Language instead of just Language.

[–]chickenboneneck 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

American here. My degree is in English Language and Literature. Seems pretty universal.

[–]Dinkdanker -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

It was just a joke. A bad one perhaps, certainly not worthy of correction or discussion, but what else would one expect from a lit major.

[–]chickenboneneck -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

One would expect them to not recognize such a bad joke as an attempt at humor, first and foremost.

[–]Dinkdanker 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

"Chinese food. They just call it food in China."

[–]chickenboneneck -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Stop.

[+]celtain -58 points-57 points-56 points 10 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

I'm sorry that you're so insecure about yourself because you couldn't get into a good university, but making fun of things just because you can't have them is a really childish reaction.

Ivy league graduates in the humanities still have great job prospects and their starting/mid-career pay is higher than STEM graduates from lower tier schools. We're not talking about communications majors from random state colleges.

[–]rudelyinterrupts 37 points38 points39 points 10 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

The fact that you can get into Ivy league school is not indicative of intelligence anymore. Only that you have connections.

Also the fact that they have good job prospects and pay is irrelevant to her actual level of intelligence.

[–]SirHoneyDip 10 points11 points12 points 10 years ago* (11 children) | Copy Link

Exactly. I finished my engineering degree with a 3.9+ GPA from an ABET accredited school. I could have made through Ivy League curriculum. I just never would have gotten in because I was lazy in high school, don't have connections, and not a minority.

Unrelated, it's super expensive too, and I like that I don't have loans.

Edit: lazy in terms of I got like 4-5 Bs in high school, which in hindsight is pathetic for how well I did in college

[–]kwilly15bb 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Just so you know even if you were a minority and still didn't do shit in HS you still wouldn't have got in.

[–]SirHoneyDip 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I played football, was on the academic challenge team, did show choir/musicals, was in NHS, and volunteered at my local hospital. Still would have had no chance.

[–]kwilly15bb 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

So that's lazy in HS?

[–]SirHoneyDip 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Read my edit. And just because I did them, doesn't mean that all of them got effort. A lot of "show up so my parents shut up about it".

[–]celtain -3 points-2 points-1 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Lol, you know a school is shitty when it's advertised as "accredited." Quit pulling shit out of your ass, you have no idea what an Ivy League curriculum is like.

[–]kurtu5 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

http://www.businessinsider.com/13-schools-where-its-really-hard-to-fail-2013-5?op=1

Well looky at that. Brown is on the list and so are many other Ivy League schools.

[–]SirHoneyDip 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Clearly you have no idea what ABET is. Here are the schools http://main.abet.org/aps/Accreditedprogramsearch.aspx

And curious, what university did you attend? It's probably on that list.

[–]celtain -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Yes, my school is on the list. However, if I wanted to describe my university, "accredited" isn't the description I would go for. Instead, I would mention that my university is top X in the world. If your school has a very large value of X, you might instead mention the ranking for just your department or major, mention that your specific program was top Y in the state/region, or perhaps find a sub-field that has a more impressive record. If you have nothing like that to use, just don't say anything at all and people will at least assume that it's an average engineering school.

Saying that it's "accredited" is like putting that you're "not a rapist" on your dating profile. Sure, that's a positive trait, but if that's the trait you're advertising, it really just highlights that you don't have much going for you.

[–]SirHoneyDip 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

We're a top 30 research university. Better?

[–]celtain -3 points-2 points-1 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Why do you think only well-connected people can go to ivy league schools?

Sure, legacy admits had a pretty big advantage compared to others, but the majority of ivy league admits are just normal students from unconnected families who had exceptionally good grades and extracurriculars. I know some of them personally.

[+]Phallic -20 points-19 points-18 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh yeah, because anyone could do an English literature degree, right? I mean, I speak English. It's not a real man's degree with formulae and shit. Just stupid words.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Ivy league admits are rarer than valedictorians,

Uh, HELL no! That is simply bullshit, and hilarious bullshit at that! I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are purposefully exaggerating...

The rest of your comment just proves your a fan of her, and most likely are just defending her based on that

[–]celtain 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Depending on how you count private and vocational schools, there are ~26,000 high schools in the country, so there are 26,000 high school valedictorians per year.

This year there were ~22,000 people admitted to one of the Ivy League schools, and that double (or triple, etc) counts those who were admitted to more than one.

Pretty sure 22,000 is less than 26,000.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Hmm. You seem to be correct. I am pretty shocked. Very well then

[–]AylaSilver 37 points38 points39 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

There's also more demand for female porn stars, I'm not sure that's sexist against men either. I'm more worried about the fact that men's fashion is so boring and same-y.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If you ever spend time looking at what passes for alternative men's fashion, you might end up being grateful for the samey-ness

[–]EvrythingISayIsRight 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

There's also more demand for female porn stars,

Oh didn't you get the update? When women do porn, its because they're exploited by men into selling their bodies and dignities because of... you guessed it, the patriarchy. When men do porn its because they're perverts and creeps who prey on women.

Similar story for the fashion industry.

[–]AylaSilver 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Modern feminism has accepted porn stars and other sex workers for a long time. You're attacking an outdated strawman.

[–]xNOM 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not really alarmed at this. One of the best things about being a man, IMO.

[–]newprofile15 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Do most men really have a huge appetite for variety in fashion? I sure as hell don't.

[–][deleted] 24 points25 points26 points 10 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

Oh Emma, not you too...

[–][deleted] 51 points52 points53 points 10 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

She's been this way publicly since the He For She shit.

[–]DrewsephVladmir 23 points24 points25 points 10 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

lord, the whole "He for she" thing was... I mean, is it just me, or was that a complete pile of shit?

[+][deleted] 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]DrewsephVladmir 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You included no words =*(

[–]specterofthepast 14 points15 points16 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Read the user name.

[–]DrewsephVladmir 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

-sigh-

fair play...

[+][deleted] 10 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]RubixCubeDonut 11 points12 points13 points 10 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

In a nutshell, some group arguing that men need to work for women's equality.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]jimmybrite 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

They're so spoiled and lazy that they think we'll all do their feminist activism for them.

[+]infamous-spaceman -8 points-7 points-6 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I think you are missing the point of He for She, the purpose is to engage more men in the womens equality movement because historically its been largely composed of women. They want 100% of people on board, not just 50%.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points15 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not an "equality movement". It's ONLY for women. He for She is women's advocacy. It's all there in the name - He for She. It's all there in the mission statement too. It was apparent in her speech. There's no other way to interpret it.

It pisses me off because there is virtually no advocacy for men, much less at the level of the fucking UN, and yet they dare suggest that we're not doing enough? It also pisses me off because Emma was raised by a single father, and she said as much in her own damn speech!

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

historically its been largely composed of women

Except that isn't true at all. Who do you think voted for universal suffrage? It's really only since 3rd wave feminism that men have mostly given up on supporting the movement, and for good reason. The goals of modern feminism would privilege women to the detriment of men. The activism and message of modern feminism is simply too hateful and dogmatic for most reasonable people to agree with, which is why only a small minority of women support it in the first place.

HeforShe is just another appeal to chivalry in order to farm donations for UN Women.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

HeforShe is just another appeal to chivalry in order to farm donations for UN Women.

In its defense, UN Women is helping women in countries that really need it.

Doesn't sound as good when you call it "Rich Westerners for poor African and Asian Women" though

[–]FastFourierTerraform 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Nothing you've said above is wrong, with the exception that /u/rsresnor pointed out.

Now, why do they want to engage men? Is it because we would offer unique perspectives on equality, and possibly highlight some area where men get the short end of the stick? Fuck no, it's He for She, dammit. This is about doing whatever the feminist overlords tell you. They want to engage men because that means more money and manpower for their cause. This is like that fucking scene in Arrested Development where all of the rich people hire illegal immigrants to picket against illegal immigration in their place. He for She isn't giving men a seat at the table, it's telling men to sit quietly in the corner of the room and take notes.

[–]FastFourierTerraform 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Emma gave a speech to the UN. Started off pretty solid:

"It's a sad state of affairs that men aren't allowed a seat at the table when we talk about gender issues"

I'm thinking, 'awesome, that sounds like a call for equality.'

Then, like icarus flying too close to something resembling a coherent though, she nosedives into,

"So that's why I'm calling on all men to advocate women's issues. I'm inviting you to participate in the gender issues conversation by keeping your head down and doing exactly what the feminists tell you"

[–]FastFourierTerraform 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The 10 second summary:

"It's deplorable that men don't get a say in the gender equality debate. That's why I'm inviting men everywhere to do more shit for women."

[–]not_AtWorkRightNow -3 points-2 points-1 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I still think she's alright. But she really needs to take a look around at the world around her and take note of the people she's allied herself with.

[–]rg57 39 points40 points41 points 10 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

Now, to be fair, this sub said that the female sports players earned more than men because although they were paid less, the income they generated for their sponsors was much less.

So, applying the same principle, don't male models get used less, and generate less income for their publications and clothiers than female models do?

[–]JayFTL 21 points22 points23 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's not the argument. The argument here is that women ALREADY earn more, so where is the issue for women in an industry they dominate?

Just like porn, it makes perfect sense to me that women earn more, and I have no issue with it. Basic supply and demand.

[–]NotRoosterTeeth[S] 29 points30 points31 points 10 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

I see your point and you see mine so I guess I can have my first civilized conversation on reddit.

In the sports senario the men are seperated from the women and the men are watched more. I wouldn't say it is sexism because look at the way the Men's and Women's NCAA Basketball Tournament is advertised. Men's is full of dunks and fans cheering, an exciting game that appeals to a general audience. The women's game is advertised with 3 points and the coach on her knee in the huddle drawing out a play. It's a much more strategic and in depth game. For example screening at the top of the key even when it won't lead to a score is common because many times to prevent the score the screened defender switches off which leads to mismatches because in the sport it's not all tall, muscular men like basketball, it's a much more diverse crowd. (No idea what causes the diversity but it is there.)

Now picture your reading a Men's Magazine like GQ. You see the pictures of stylish men with hot women standing next to them and it's advertising a watch or some cologne or something like that. Your eye is drawn by the hot girl most likely but what sells the product is the man next to her wearing the watch and you want to be the dude wearing that watch. Both are in the picture and have their "part" to sell the product. It's like that across all picture based marketing and it's everywhere. The one exception to be made is the Arby's commercial but I would practically consider that softcore pornography (and I'm not complaining).

In one men are paid more because the general audience is mostly male and the male "version" would appeal more to a gender neutral audience anyway. In modeling they either are partnered together or they coexist (like in a fashion show where they will have both genders).

[–][deleted] 30 points31 points32 points 10 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

Mens sports are more entertaining to watch because men are better at them. Male athletes are larger, stronger, faster, can jump higher and take more damage. The only woman's sports that are entertaining compared to mens are things like gymnastics or ice skating were being smaller and lighter come into play that only really get attention during the Olympics.

[–]bobbage 17 points18 points19 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

and beach volleyball

[–]SirHoneyDip 23 points24 points25 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Even there, the men are much better. The women have more...plot.

[+]BleuPotato -11 points-10 points-9 points 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Now this is just purely bias with what you have claimed. While I do agree that I find men's sports more entertaining, it can't be used as a generalized statement to apply to sports as a whole. It's too subjective as a claim.

[–]Rolten 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Now this is just purely bias with what you have claimed.

Not really. In every sport the best athletes and teams are watched the most. FC Barcelona is the most popular club since it's one of the world's best clubs. Millions of people around the world don't go berserk for some amateur football club in Switzerland.

Since men > women in almost every sport, and we like watching the best, it makes sense that the reason male sports teams and male athletes are so popular is because they're the best.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

No its not. Men will always be better at Physically intensive and contact sports, its biology.

[–]xNOM 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It's more general than that. Even where there is no fathomable physical reason, men dominate at the top. Most likely, high-level competition itself is less appealing to women in general. The autism-like obsession required is probably far rarer in women. Statistics take over from there.

Poker?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Series_of_Poker#Main_Event_results

Holding one's breath? (Static apnea)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freediving#AIDA_recognized_world_records

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Men have comparably larger lungs so free diving makes perfect sense.

[–]xNOM -3 points-2 points-1 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They also have a higher static oxygen requirement. Not clear to me that this is an advantage. From a lung surface area to mitochondria number ratio argument, women would actually be at an advantage.

[–]BleuPotato -3 points-2 points-1 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I was talking about the entertainment aspect, read my comment.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I did. Better players equals more entertaining to watch.

[–]AloysiusC 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Could you rephrase the first sentence?

[–]newprofile15 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think both discrepancies in pay are reasonable and the result of the overall market rather than some kind of gender discrimination.

Woman models are more important in the fashion world. Fashion for women represents a much bigger slice of the overall fashion market. No conspiracy behind it or invidious discrimination.

Male sports leagues represent the vast majority of revenue for sport in general. Athletes set up unions and take a big chunk of overall revenues. Woman pro sports leagues are often subsidized or barely cover costs so it's natural that they would make less. No invidious discrimination... Woman leagues are just less popular and profitable.

[–]Wargame4life 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

why should i give two shits what an actress thinks about anything?

[–]Lethn 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Oh dear :( there goes my respect for Emma Watson entirely.

I wonder if her agent filled her head with this bullshit claiming she'd score lots of points with people if she took this political position.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

She went to an American university and she has had to deal with the internet being horny for her. She should be smarter than this, but it's no surprise.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

She went to an American university and she has had to deal with the internet being horny for her.

However did the poor little love make it through such hardship?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

American university is a place that I've heard is unbelievably biased towards feminists. And I use unbelievable in it's literal definition. So being in such a place as a female will undoubtedly leave some scars.

Regarding the internet being horny for her, I don't think you fully understand how objectifying some people (both men and women) can be. When there are literally hundreds of thousands of those voices, it kind of messes with your head a bit. Try and imagine it yourself, you'll probably not feel well.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

If you're famous, people are gonna objectify you. That's a given. The trick is to wipe your tears on £50 notes. Emma Watson is, reasonably attractive and she never has to work again, despite being 7 years younger than me. Forgive me if I can't muster up a whole lot of empathy for her.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Everybody has a right to complain. Nobody will care about you having to work 1 hour extra for the same pay each day since there is Luke on my street is dying from cancer. However Luke can't complain since Badhka in Sudan is literally decomposing in the sun after having just starved to death.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I understand shit is tough all over. Speaking as someone who values their privacy, I wouldn't like to be subject to constant public scrutiny. Maybe I was a bit harsh.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If she's your sister maybe you can talk her out of it. By being understanding and simultaneously presenting facts and explaining why the feminist facts are incorrect. For your own sake, most be a lot nicer to get along with your sister than watching her be a misguided hatefueled machine.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points18 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

A celebrity doesn't know how the world really works?

What else is new?

[–]belil569 19 points20 points21 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ill give her the fact she is going to a pretty good university, when she is done and has some actual life behind her then I might pay attention. As it stand now she is just as bad as Lacy Green.

[–]deadalnix 24 points25 points26 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

This industry is ran by gay and women. No need to drag "society" into this.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

and powered by sweat shops.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Drag society. http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_le4cd14ce21qcps5ho1_500.jpg

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Hah, I always use this argument when discussing fashion and no one knows what to say. Women and gay men run the fashion industry, there's no sexist male pig exploitation going on by horny men.

[–]Saerain 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Although, it's odd that male fashion would be such an afterthought in an industry supposedly run by gay men.

[–]deadalnix 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Women are the one spending on fashion, so women are the one catered for by the fashion industry. There is nothing mysterious about this.

[–]plainwalk 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Women are more open to 'fabulous' clothing, and it's more fun to make outrageous things than tame cookie-cutter suits.

[–]pnw_diver 19 points20 points21 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"Emma Watson" can take a flying fuck off a tall rock.

[–]mattreyu 11 points12 points13 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

She's talking about house elves, not women

[–]MrB0mbastic 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I also get the feeling that Emma Watson thinks she's Hermione.

[–]bromoasaurus 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Would you mind linking the source of the information about the 148% pay favor for women? I'm curious to see.

Second, let's take a moment here to calm ourselves and think ratonally. Let's look at some of the semantics of the video. First off, their discussion, as it pertains to a "wage gap" is covered while the conversation was on all industries, not just fashion. In fact, I didn't really get the feeling that a wage difference in fashion was something any of them meant to say. Second, there was plenty of time spent in the video explaining how men and women should have equal amount of maternity/paternity leave- a big plus for everyone. Thirdly, a lot of the video covered topics such as body type and race acceptance, which are both different topics from the gender "conflict" entirely. While I'm not saying a couple of things in the video aren't inaccurate, everyone seems to have skipped the video and gone straight to bashing these people for simply identifying as a feminist.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I doubt very much that the fashion industry gives a single dime about Emma Watson thinks about it.

[–]EvrythingISayIsRight 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Feminists never get tired of the sexism circlejerk, do they?

[–]Sasha_ 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Poor Emma Watson. She's a lovely-looking girl and all but...who DID she get into Oxford? She's an air-headed simpleton.

[–]Whisper 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Why exactly would I care about the opinions of a twentysomething whose greatest accomplishment in life is getting paid a lot of money to pretend to be a wizard?

[–]pnw_diver 10 points11 points12 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

God I cant stand her already and she may not be old enough to drink a beer or more apropo a glass of whiiiinneeeee

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

She's 25 dude

[–]pnw_diver -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Whatevs comes across as 15 year old precious spoiled daughter with No Brain.

25 wasted years, and all that money could have been expended on valuable human beings. What a shame.

[–]ianisboss123 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I disagree with her opinion as well, but I also disagree with your opinion. It isn't 25 wasted years, she just used them differently then you.

[+]pnw_diver -6 points-5 points-4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

DV on general principles: parasocial relationship with random celebrity. You're worth more, bro.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I really thought you were Rooster Teeth for a minute there.

[–]NotRoosterTeeth[S] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's reverse reverse phycology

[–]Spacyy 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

We for one are so glad that Emma is speaking out about the equality for women!

The whole videos i thought they where talking PoCs and Men.

They never use any exemples of sexism toward Women

[–]Snowfire870 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not only that but who controls fashion? Its defintly not straight males

[–]stylesavant 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

“I’d really, really love to see a more diverse representation of women and men in any way that makes them feel empowered.” -

I think she's stated something very reasonable? What has she said about this that isn't true?

[–]Blutarg 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

If she wants a wider range of men to be considered desireable, she could start by dating a computer science major instead of a lacrosse captain.

[–]infamous-spaceman 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Really...

[–]Numericaly7 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Well, she said more diverse. As in including people that normally aren't considered attractive in modeling. She is asking for people to consider a wider array of people more attractive. She should pick up the ball first to set an example.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

No different than women bitching about not enough women in STEM fields while they themselves major in "Womens studies".

[–]Numericaly7 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

And any women that does major in STEM gets auto-hired upon graduation.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Patriarchy!!!

[–]jaheiner 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

She wants equality in the fashion industry? So she wants all men to make the millions of dollars the females do.

[–]Thebacklash 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm going to regret asking this, but... does she do this kind of thing a lot? Comment on things she doesn't know about?

I've always liked her, and I like that she seems to want to do more with her life than just acting, to use her fame for something good... but its easy to cross that line into believing what your fans tell you, that you are some kind of special star child out to save the world.

[–]Lethn 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

This kind of thing happens constantly, Bill Maher caused some rage ( it was pretty damn funny ) when he argued with Ben Affleck about Islam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vln9D81eO60

TLDR Version: Bill Maher says there are bad ideas in Islam but everybody will call you a racist for pointing out the bad things Islam does and that muslims believe in. Ben Affleck completely ignores what he said and calls him a racist right after even though there were much more informed experts aside from Bill Maher telling him otherwise.

All fucking actors do it, or at least nearly all, I think the intelligent ones who actually know stuff are the ones who keep out of it entirely. I you're right in the case that these people have very few people who will openly disagree with them or criticise them so they end up growing up into total douchebags.

[–]wisty 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Haha, watch the video:

"Are you a feminist?"

Designer 1: 100% feminist!

Designer 2: I'm a humanist, I think that covers the whole thing.

Designer 3: The idea that on every level, men and women should be treated equally, so in that sense, yes.

Designer 2 suggested better maternity leave for men.

Some stuff about fair pay.

Something about sexist imagery being a problem.

A surprising amount of waffle, for a <4 minute video.

[–]superq7 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCZ0w8B2f_I

This is all I hear.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Think of all the female models you know the names of.

Now think of all the male models you know the names of.

Do you know the names of any male models? I don't.

[–]NotRoosterTeeth[S] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Zoolander....? It was worth a shot

[–]zephyrprime -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What did she actually say?

[–]McFeely_Smackup -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Are we really going to get overly concerned about a child actress's political opinions?

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's an amazing skill to talk about nothing for 4 mins. Like really it talks about nothing. No clear definition of issues, no ideas to fix them, nothing. It's literally buzz word salad!

[+]BarneyBent -13 points-12 points-11 points 10 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Pay difference is down to demand. It's other stuff she's talking about, the way that there is still a big tendency to objectify women in the industry, hold them to ridiculous physical standards (men too, and she does mention us, but I'd argue the idealised male body is much healthier and more natural than that of women, with more room for variation), and there's also just the fact that, for such a female-dominated industry, there's STILL a fair bit of sexism against women on a cultural level, so the industry is in a particularly interesting position to make a difference, in that respect.

[–]Drakaris 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

hold them to ridiculous physical standards

How is looking "healthy" a ridiculous physical standard? In the top 10 highest paid female models of 2014 I can't see even one that is "unhealthy" or with "ridiculous physics". Or you're just demanding more land whales to turn ppl into chubby chasers? Those "ridiculous physical" standards are not ridiculous at all, they're just hard to achieve. I think this explains everything.

there's STILL a fair bit of sexism against women on a cultural level

Don't think you understand the meaning of the word "sexism". The definition is "prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex or gender". Care to elaborate where exactly is the discrimination against women in the female dominated fashion industry? Or is this another "no win" situation. "Sexism against women!", "No, there's not, they're dominating this field"... "Yea, well, STILL SEXISTS because... REASONS!!!"...

[+]BarneyBent -8 points-7 points-6 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Umm, the standards that fashion models have to adhere to are NOT healthy. They are extremely underweight.

And yes, it's "because reasons". Reasons which are complicated. Reasons which I've taken the time to explain in the past, in various places. Reasons which, if you've no interest in actually having your mind changed, will go in one ear and out the other and change dick all about your beliefs.

[–]Drakaris 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Umm, the standards that fashion models have to adhere to are NOT healthy. They are extremely underweight.

This is your opinion. Based on... reasons again. The average weight of EU woman is ~66 kilos. The requirement for modeling are between 50-58 kilos, depending on the height and this has many exceptions. How exactly is that "extremely underweight"?

The highest paid female model for 2014 Gisele Bundchen is 180 cm tall and weighs 57 kg. Adriana Lima, who has been modeling for Victoria's Secret since 2000 is 178 cm and weighs 61 kg. One of the most popular models today Kate Upton height is 178 cm and weighs 64 kg.

Which one of these look "unhealthy" and "extremely underweight"?

Reasons which are complicated

Reasons, which are non existent when the actual facts are presented.

change dick all about your beliefs

I don't have any. I'm really not good at "listening and believing"... Something you seem to be quite good at.

[–]Karma9999 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

1 dv for "I haven't got the time to educate you".

[+]BarneyBent -6 points-5 points-4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah, yeah. If you look through my post history I actually spend a lot of time explaining feminist perspectives on men's rights issues, when I feel I might actually make some progress, when it's talking points that most of the men's rights movement hasn't been so fundamentally poisoned against. But this issue has been covered extensively in the past with no success, so I just don't see what trying again will achieve. Plus I'm kinda in the middle of a different argument. But I understand your cynicism, for whatever it's worth. It IS a common cop-out, after all.

[–]Karma9999 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Fair enough, I try to avoid people's post histories, I see too many people getting narked about that. It's good that you understand it's a cop-out though :)

[–]Black_caped_man 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think that what you are thinking about are those examples of runway models that people use as a scare tactic about the industry. When it comes to runway models they basically want a walking coat hanger in those instances. But this isn't the case most of the time, sure they are required to be slim, but that's not really something difficult to do. They spend considerably less effort than any elite level athlete on their bodies.

Still this is just one small part of modeling, you have other models for advertising photos, and here the range is actually really diverse. It all depends on what level we are talking about. There are models who work mostly towards smaller manufacturers and stores and on line stores etc. Then you have some more famous ones who get work for a bit more high end stuff, and then you have the cream of the crop, the ones that people actually know the name of.

The weight standard in general in the industry is not unhealthy, the way some models choose to reach that weight and maintain it can be unhealthy though.

And it needs to be said that there are very similar standards for men in the industry. The runway models that are desired are the tall and skinny ones, and clothes (and other stuff) models are way more diverse.

[–]AloysiusC 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

How are women objectified in the fashion industry and how do you think the industry should work?

Any evidence that female standards are higher than male standards? And how is that sexist when clearly women are far more sought after in general. Seems contradictory to me.

and there's also just the fact that, for such a female-dominated industry, there's STILL a fair bit of sexism against women on a cultural level

If things were reversed, you'd say it's sexist against women that men are so much more desired and get paid more. It would be proof that society loves men and hates women.

the industry is in a particularly interesting position to make a difference, in that respect.

How so?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They aren't going to answer, so I'll do you a favor and sum up the feminist view on the fashion industry: they need more fat women who look ugly like me because I'm insecure.

[–]tiqr -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Came here to say exactly this. Glad someone beat me to it so they could get downvoted instead of me.

Watson isn't arguing that female models aren't getting paid enough, so the fact that male models earn less than female models is irrelevant. She's talking about the fact that the money is being earned by male designers, photographers, and other behind the scenes people instead of the models. She's talking about the fact that the beauty standards of women are unhealthy (and then they get photoshopped to be even more impossibly thin). She's talking about the fact that the fashion industry perpetuates the belief that a woman's worth is primarily determined by her looks.

But what does this sub do? It stuffs words in her mouth claim that fashion is sexist against men because male models earn less (while simultaneously complaining about female athletes who deserve to earn less because of market forces).

I am rapidly losing any hope for this subreddit.

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