How to respond to this trap: You do support feminism, don't you?

Samurai007_ · 2015-07-20T06:45:37+00:00

My answer would be "No, not really. I believe in equal opportunity for all, which conflicts with Feminism's all-women-are-victims, all-men-are-oppressors paradigm."

augustfell · 2015-07-20T03:39:47+00:00

Just say: "The type of feminism that promotes the rights of both men and women? Or the type of radical feminism that seeks to demonize and punish men and boys?"

(Yes I know the first type of feminism doesn't exist. But it's supposed to exist, so you may as well hold them to it.)

Whatever you say, your answer:

Should not be an unqualified 'yes'
Should not sound defensive
And if you're in a hostile environment, your answer should be self-contained, so that if you are cut off, censored, or your opponent(s) begins monologue-ing, you will have already made your point. (Therefore, any question you lead out with should also be somewhat rhetorical.)

MikeSogyny · 2015-07-20T02:28:18+00:00

Usually I ask them to define what they mean by feminism. They say the textbook "Equality between the genders on legal and social issues" definition. Then I just say yes I absolutely agree with that. :)

UnrenownedTech · 2015-07-20T04:09:14+00:00

"I support egalitarianism"

Sapphireonice · 2015-07-20T04:39:40+00:00

Ask them if all blacks should support the Republicans for giving them freedom from slavery.

If they respond 'Well, the party's changed.' you respond 'So has feminism.'

Lrellok · 2015-07-20T05:10:58+00:00

No, my goal is to abolish wage slavery, not replace one set of petty bourgeois with another.

Corn-Tortilla · 2015-07-20T05:59:54+00:00

No. I don't support hate movements.

walkonthebeach · 2015-07-20T04:44:40+00:00

Feminism is for feminists. Equality is for everyone.

bloodshot_eyes · 2015-07-20T05:34:44+00:00

"Oh yes, of course I do!!! Who dare wouldn't?!"

Actually, I quite like the lingering subtext of this answer. "Of course I support feminism, who would dare not to?" The implication is that they're spiteful bullies. Which they are.

Besides, it's all wind anyway. I could say I "support" feminism, but I'll never donate one thin dime to any of their organizations.

Elvick · 2015-07-20T06:06:55+00:00

I wouldn't get into "what people mean" with feminism personally.

I would just say that, "I support equality. Why does it matter if I call myself a feminist, or directly support the movement of feminism, if I support equality? If I prove through my actions and stances that I'm for equality, isn't that what matters? Why is it more important that I call my brand of equality 'feminism'? Especially when I'm actively trying to push for equality?"

Because personally, that's how I feel. Which is why I don't begrudge women like CH Sommers who cling to the movement, though I think it's a waste of time. She proves what she's about, and that's what matters. Which is why when feminists protest her, they are proving what THEY are about by distancing themselves from a voice of reason in the movement. Showing that feminism isn't supportive of such voices. Like she's said before about calling herself a feminist, paraphrasing of course, "If nothing else, it pisses off feminists".

I think highlighting the "problematic" ~~thanks feminism for making me hate that word~~ idea that you must support feminism in order to support equality is important. That you may not be feminist, but that doesn't mean you don't believe in equality. Once people can get behind that concept, that you can be for equality and not feminism, then you can start to open up a bit about the other stuff. Like how feminism is an ideology. I think diving too deep, too fast is going to shut people's minds off. (or switch their emotions on, however you want to put it)

Voidslan · 2015-07-20T07:19:34+00:00

A lot of the time I'll respond with "for the most part. It depends on the actual organization and issue."

If pressed for an explanation, i say some issues I'd support and some i think are wrong to support and explain that belief doesn't warrant a lack of critical thought.

If asked for a definitive yes or no, i say "no, feminist organizations have only spent time solving problems for half the population. 50% is a failing grade in my book."

firstpitchthrow · 2015-07-20T03:38:20+00:00

OP your answer is too complicated and asks people too much in the area of reading/listening comprehension. You're just asking to get hit with the "you don't believe defeating patriarchy offers any benefits to young women? You're just a galatic-level shitlord." reply. You have to remember rule number one of arguing with women: don't. Then remember rule two: its about her feels, with women, their feelings are what matter.

The thing about tv is its different than an argument in real life or on an internet forum. You make a misstep on TV, and the misstep is compiled by twitter and by articles about tv (which is what journalism is these days) and outcries of rage on social media and reddit. TV, even if you believe you're right, and you explain yourself, you words will be given the worst possible interpretation. TV, all your words are slippery-slope, saying you have a problem with Isreal's occupation of the west bank is saying that you sympathize with Hitler (because you both hate jews).

The best possible answer to that question that you can give on TV is:

"no, I support equality."

EvolvingRedneck · 2015-07-20T05:12:23+00:00

I don't support any dogma that demands my allegiance. Because anytime someone asks a "you support X don't you?" question, it implies you are a bad person if you dare say anything other than yes. I equate it to religion, "believe in my religion or else you will burn in hell".

CMOS222 · 2015-07-20T06:11:41+00:00

You say, "the difference between believing in equal rights for women and supporting feminism is like the difference between believing in God and professing Catholicism."

ThePigmanAgain · 2015-07-20T09:22:07+00:00

My answer -- "Fuck, no! What do you think i am, some kind of psycho?!?!?!"

Shubrook · 2015-07-20T19:04:37+00:00

"No. I do not subscribe to hate based ideologies."

Alzael · 2015-07-20T02:36:14+00:00

Simple answer:No.

Outdoor-Joe · 2015-07-20T04:18:07+00:00

No. I let women support feminism. Feminism is for women, as denoted by the "fem" portion of the world, for female.

Why would I support a movement that's not doing anything for me?

Piroko · 2015-07-20T02:44:09+00:00

You do support feminism, don't you?

Nope.

I'd rather see men be men and women be women. Majority of people were happy with that way back when, and majority would be happier then they are now if it was that way again. Needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Right now we're just an unhappy society where unwomanly women are stuck with unmanly men.

MRSPArchiver · 2015-07-20T02:24:11+00:00

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eloquentnemesis · 2015-07-20T07:57:19+00:00

"Which wave?" or :I agree with first wave feminism. I think women should have the right to vote. then when they mention something else, accuse them of wanting to end women's suffrage. Sure, it's poor debate etiquette and unlikely to get you anywhere, but you might mildly amuse yourself and that's about as much as you can ask for when speaking with a feminist.

Lethn · 2015-07-20T08:58:02+00:00

I just say I support equality and not misandry or something along those lines, depends on who I'm talking to and whether they're a reasonable person.

mochacola · 2015-07-20T10:52:12+00:00

My response: Any decent human being who support feminist movement have no clue what it actually is.

energyinmotion · 2015-07-20T11:19:18+00:00

This is what i would say:

"I support true equality. I understand that as a male, I will always be better at some tasks than women. Likewise there are also some tasks that women will do better than men.

Understanding these differences between my gender and yours, and that we must work together to overcome each other's gender limitations, is the key towards real equality, something which modern feminism is not geared towards."

I support real equality, I don't support feminism, and I am not afraid to say this. I've said it before and I will always stand by it. I never supported feminism period, because it's not about equality. It never was, otherwise it wouldn't have been called "feminism" to begin with.

TacoNinjaSkills · 2015-07-20T14:23:01+00:00

I would say the first step is to ask the person what they mean by feminism, and if they trot out the equality line, ask them equality of what and how feminism plans to achieve it.

My go-to is that even if feminism stands for achieving equality, I do not support feminism's methodology of doing so, which is using the state as a bludgeon and public shaming and harassing anyone who disagrees.

I also challenge whether legal equality even should or can be achieved, but that typical gets too in depth for the conversation you are talking about here.

thehumungus · 2015-07-20T16:30:13+00:00

"I think women should be regarded as people and treated with the same respect as anyone else. The term "feminism" applies to a bunch of different movements with various stances, not all of which I support."

L33TPWNERS · 2015-10-08T05:50:36+00:00

Feminism is not equality. It never was. The definition of feminism is "the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men."

Feminism is a cause to boost women to be the same status as men. Which they already got. They've done it, they have all the rights men have and then some.

So now feminism is boosting women over the status of men, which I do not agree with.

I am an anti feminist.

ConfirmedCynic · 2015-07-20T17:37:37+00:00

"I support equality of opportunity".

BetterBadIdeas · 2015-07-20T17:49:42+00:00

"Define feminism" tends to work pretty well. When they inevitably give the generic egalitarian definition, just mention the various waves, the history of transphobia, etc. And pose the question again. Repeat until they must admit that at this point the word "feminist" has become a pretty meaningless catch-all.

0care · 2015-07-20T19:15:50+00:00

I would just straight up say no, and if asked to elaborate would say that I support equality.

TomwaIvory · 2015-07-20T23:01:06+00:00

I usually point them to the numerous videos of feminists disrupting, insulting, and down right attacking others.

SupremeAuthority · 2015-07-20T23:44:40+00:00

My response would be "This conversation is over."

chb1000001 · 2015-07-21T13:20:01+00:00

It's been said before; just repeating it:

"No, I don't. I think that my own gender should receive special treatment, extra support from the government, preference in hiring, housing and education, as well as..... oh my God, you're right, I am a feminist!!"

w345rg · 2015-07-21T16:26:19+00:00

"Define Feminism"
Then agree or disagree with the statement that they make and say "I support/don't support that."

Title	How to respond to this trap: You do support feminism, don't you?
Author	Ferociouslmbecile
Upvotes	37
Comments	62
Date	July 20, 2015 2:23 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3dwel5/how_to_respond_to_this_trap_you_do_support/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/how-to-respond-to-this-trap-you-do-support.975037 https://theredarchive.com/post/975037

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