Stop dumpster diving through other women’s garbage

Platipus6 · 2022-03-25T00:13:55+00:00

I'm not sure they grow apart. More like the woman actually matures and can adapt to her new role as wife and mother, but the LVM posing as a HVM was enthusiastic about having kids, but then wouldn't grow up or stop being a bachelor.

A lot of men only like the honeymoon fun phase. They get easily frustrated by life's normal challenges, monotony and need for discipline. They want to be the fun weekend dad and won't set rules, boundaries and routine. They won't parent. They don't want to be "the bad guy" so they spoil (in a bad way) their kids so the kids "love" them, which makes mom the bad guy.

So now he's escaped all his duties and responsibilities, he looks like a HVM again, eager to get into a long-term relationship, but he's looking for the stress-free honeymoon phase because he can't and won't mature into the resilience it takes to deal with the bad that comes with the good in a normal adult life.

alpinepunch2021 · 2022-03-24T23:01:58+00:00

This doesn't really have to do with divorced people in particular, but I'm not so sure whether a man being dumped serves as an informative red flag. I've seen tons of guys dump all of their girlfriends, not because they're HV, but because they're avoidant or have commitment issues (perhaps this is more common in younger men though?). Accordingly, on those grounds you could view a man who dumps his ex as also having a red flag. I dated a guy who did this to all of his exes - I liked that fact while dating him because I thought that showed he was 100% over them, until he did the same thing to me (he used the same reason for all of us: we were 'scary' because we enforced our boundaries and expectations). I knew another guy who did this to my friend (who was way hotter, equally professionally accomplished, and far more sociable than him). He also dumped all his exes (including her) after cheating on them and not wanting to deal with their justified anger.

So basically, if a man dumping their ex is a red flag (shows lack of commitment) and a man being dumped by their ex could also be a red flag (because their ex may have spotted some terrible flaw in them), then it looks like you can't look their status as dumpee/dumper to infer anything about them, unfortunately.

all_or_nothing_bet · 2022-03-25T01:46:55+00:00

If we assume every man is automatically at fault, that would lead us to the presumtion that there are no HVM. That leaves us with no one to date.

We have to be realistic. At a certain age, a man who has never been married is a much bigger red flag than a divorced one. There are, probably, some exceptions but they must be extremely rare. I see many amicable divorces among people of my age but I have yet seen a well adjusted, decent man without a peterpan syndrome who has never been married. There is always something wrong with them.

questionsaboutrel521 · 2022-03-25T12:55:09+00:00

While I’m seeing some stories with red flags in this post, I want to offer up that while aspects of men’s divorces can be and are red flags, being divorced in itself needs to be very destigmatized. Divorce is one of the biggest feminist victories in history.

I would have left my abuser sooner if I hadn’t felt so much shame about having a short marriage. I’ve seen some mean comments on FDS about divorce that do kind of make me cringe, because anyone (male or female) who claims they absolutely can’t/won’t get divorced are basically saying they are infallible, that they never make mistakes. I made a big mistake but staying with him would have been a bigger one.

My partner (shows me many examples of being HVM) is divorced, too. In his case, he made a pretty simple mistake that many young people make - he married his first real relationship. They had incompatibilities as they grew up and problems that showed themselves (including my partner’s shortcomings), but my partner was wanting to talk through them. His ex seemed to leave abruptly. He found out later that she was cheating, which seems to justify why she left so quickly.

Since, and before he met me, my partner has been to therapy and processed his relationships. He’s not perfect but he definitely justified the situation to me enough that I feel comfortable. It also helps that third parties back up the version of events and he doesn’t demonize his ex.

VintagePallor · 2022-03-24T23:00:17+00:00

In re: "why did she feel the need to cheat?" I believe there are absolutely terrible LVW in the world who would cheat on a HVM for no real reason. I highly doubt there's a lot of them, but hey... Some people do just grow apart naturally, or maybe got married too young and weren't actually well suited. I would proceed with a high degree of caution with divorcees but I think there are valid reasons a marriage even between two HV people just doesn't work out.

TheNightWitch · 2022-03-24T23:25:15+00:00

Amicable divorces happen all the time. Some people grow together in a marriage but for lots of others, their personal growth trajectories have them ending up really far apart from each other as time passes, and it’s better to just call it, divorce, and find someone who’s trajectory is a better match.

We are so used to hearing the awful stories that we don’t hear the quiet ones, with amicable splits.

Vaahla · 2022-03-25T15:20:34+00:00

Try looking at dating to married ratio.

Dated for 6 years, married for 1 year, divorced…wtf happened?

Dates for 2 years, married for 5 years, divorced…maybe they just grew up.

Inspection-Critical · 2022-03-24T23:48:59+00:00

Perhaps infidelity, but then, if he’s actually that great, why did his ex feel the need to cheat?

I feel this is an unfair assumption. Infidelity is abuse. You can't "drive" another person to abuse you. Cheaters cheat for a ton of reasons that boil down to entitlement and narcissism. See Chump Lady's blog for more info.

Personally, I don't know any divorced HVM. But your story reminded me of a comment I shared on FDS the other day about 2 divorced men who claimed they divorced their wives, only to find out the WIVES were the ones who filed and the men fought it. Which blew a hole in their stories that their wives had abused them.

GeorgiaPeach_94 · 2022-03-25T12:32:34+00:00

I agree that it's difficult to tell - because a man at that age who's never been married, or who only had 'forever girlfriends' is maybe an even bigger red flag. So there have to be divorced men for whom it's not a red flag.

If I think about the divorced couples I know...

Two were because he was a cheater. One was because he beat her. One, however, it's because they married young and as far as I can tell, they just genuinely grew apart and have a good relationship and co-parenting. Still, I wouldn't want to get with a man who has children, so that's still a dealbreaker for me.

The red flags definitely multiply as our target pool grows older...

Catherine772023 · 2022-03-24T23:47:01+00:00

I don’t think you should blame him if he got cheated on. What if she’s a PickMe who is addicted to all male attention??

VelvetKnuckleduster · 2022-03-25T09:45:53+00:00

It's important to remember that a HVM isn't one size fits all, some people are perfectly decent but just aren't compatible. A relationship breaking down isn't always an indictment of the people involved, sometimes things just don't work out. I wouldn't hold it against someone who got into a relationship in their late teens or early twenties when life is comparatively simple, and in their late thirties when they're dealing with mortgages and aging parents and office politics they realise that they and their partner just don't want the same things anymore. I can't tell you whether that's the case here or not, you'll need to keep vetting and use your own judgement.

As for why a woman would feel the need to cheat, I really don't like this idea that a person is responsible for keeping their partner faithful. None of us should ever feel responsible for keeping a man faithful. High Value people do not have affairs, full stop. There's no relationship problem given as a reason for cheating that wouldn't have been solved quicker and more cleanly by just breaking up instead.

vaguelinen · 2022-03-25T06:48:52+00:00

My boyfriend is divorced. The first story I got was that they grew apart and it was all very amicable. After a year he admitted that the main thing that saw their lives go in different directions was the man she left him for but he bore her no ill will and didn’t like to mention it because she’s a fundamentally good person.

Catz10000 · 2022-03-24T23:56:40+00:00

Here's my anecdotal story:

My current partner (HV so far) of 4 years divorced his wife of 10 years, a decade ago, because she was cheating on him. And she's the one who filed after kicking him out.

He was in denial about the cheating even though men were calling the house at 6 AM while she was living on campus doing a chemical engineering degree - even though they had 2 young children. He did everything he could to protect his children from her animosity. She saw them for a few hours every month.

Apparently, she resented every life choice she had made before and with him. She didn't want kids. She didn't want to get married. She hated her husband because he was a better person than she was.

When they divorced, she did everything to alienate the kids and take them away even though she didn't want them either. She chose work over the kids every opportunity, which he learned to not mind because he didn't want them to feel unwanted. He is one of the few men I have ever seen who was active in the rearing of his children. He was financially and emotionally abused, so his kids wouldn't feel a lack of anything.

He made mistakes over compensating for sure. His kids are spoiled and entitled and getting free rides from their parents in university. His son is racist and a bigot, but we generally get along, and he is learning HV values slowly. His daughter is LV like her mother. She lies and uses people. I tried to model HV behavior, but she is determined not to be "used" Iike her mother claims she was. The son knows what the mother is about, but the daughter prefers to think her dad is a bad guy while being a huge pickme.

I think the biggest mistake my partner made was not to tell the kids why their parents divorced. One can explain age appropriate facts without editorializing.

Everything I have seen has been corroborated by friends and family.

LV will LV and HV will HV.

legoflowers · 2022-03-25T04:15:10+00:00

The man I am currently dating said he got divorced because his wife went through health issues, which I later found out was depression. He said that she stopped wanting to go out, and went through a major change in her personality. He said that when she went through depression, she needed help and was there for her. However, later on he dealt with the same issues, and he didn’t feel supported. He said that her depression changed their dynamic, and I think that’s a valid reason for having gotten divorced. He is so sweet, he does not hate her, he is very kind about her. I do believe that when one person goes through a major life change such as this, the dynamic of the relationship can be lost. In addition, his perception that he was there for her but she wasn’t there for him, could very well be the end of a marriage for an otherwise very nice man.

CoffeeBeforeAdulty · 2022-03-26T17:45:21+00:00

I once knew a woman who would do this. She dated 2 of my exes...in succession.

The first one made sense because she had dated him before...idk, like 2 years before we dated? Maybe 3? I don't really care to remember. Then, once they dated again for however long and I remember her admitting she had been in love with him the whole time.

At the time, I just wanted to be a supportive friend. It was hard because I was worried for her despite knowing she was strong enough to handle if he cheated on her too. 🤷‍♀️

I stopped really seeing her as a friend or caring when I saw how angry she seemed at women, how she always believed what men in her life said over the women in her life. Regardless of closeness. Or perceived closeness? 🤔

The not caring shifted to a sort of "F*cking really?!" When not 24 hrs after I broke up and gave my ex 30 days, she showed up at my door to pick him up. There were a lot of feelings to run through but my friends and even my own mom were like "Be thankful. She did you a favor." or "Sweet! Didn't even need to put up with the 30 days of moping or whatever. He'll do it at her place."

The woman herself seemed mad at me. Idk or even care why anymore. Last I heard, my mom said it was probably because she was jealous and a friend said it might be because "you were dating men who wanted kids while being child free yourself. She probably didn't see that kindly." Well, I let both of them go before they hit 30 so...🤷‍♀️

Also, both told me they didn't care that I was child free and I was inclined to believe them. Turned out both were probably waiting for me to "change my mind because of my love for them" in one way or another.🤢

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