Dealing with transphobia and targeting despite me making it clear I’m an ally (scroll to see what I’m talking about).

Large-Monitor317 · 2025-04-17T07:41:31+00:00

Ugh. Sorry to see that happened, you have my sympathy. Genuinely, I find trans folk to be some of the best allies and just generally involved in gender issues by personal necessity, and you deserve better here.

This sub being explicitly left wing helps it a lot, but almost any men’s space has a lot of toxicity that kind of… washes up from people lashing out who feel overlooked and in need. We’re a bunch of political orphans, who don’t want toxic red pill nonsense, but chafe at places like MensLib which fail to actually advocate on the behalf of men.

My own opinion, that I will shout into this sub, is that trans rights are human rights and trans issues are men’s issues. Trans men simply are men and have to deal with most of the same problems as the rest of us, and Trans women are all too often treated as men by conservatives, and would greatly benefit from men in general being treated better as well! Trans people have been a vanguard showing just how fucking awful, harmful and pointless our overly restrictive gender rolls are, and deserve support, friendship, and if they don’t mind me evoking a gendered term of solidarity, brotherhood.

HotComfortable3418 · 2025-04-17T12:33:51+00:00

Just look at the rhetoric and why they are targetting trans women. It is because they see trans women as men who threaten cis women. Their rhetoric is to keep "men" out of women's spaces, and on top of that is bioessentialism. Transphobia against trans women BY TRANSPHOBES is misandry.

Initial_Zebra100 · 2025-04-17T08:30:32+00:00

It frustrates me that men become so sensitive to this. I'm an advocate for men to improve and cast off stereotypes. I want us to be better. I used to be way more tolerant to different opinions. But it's annoying to see ignorance.

Hot damn seeing stuff like this doesn't help anything (yes, I'm aware women do it, too).

I'm sorry people are cruel and stupid. We can be better.

Please take care of yourself.

BandageBandolier · 2025-04-17T14:53:32+00:00

I think people would do a better job at communicating past their differences if they could keep a level head instead of giving in to the desire to be the main character of a dramatic narrative.

When I saw "targeted" I presumed harassing DMs, threats or being chased to other threads to continue the disagreement. But these are just somewhat impolite public responses directly to public comments you have made. If anything making this separate series of posts would be closer to targeting than that (although still doesn't meet a criteria I would be honestly comfortable calling "targeted"), usernames are omitted but it's also trivially easy to search for the comments.

Maybe they were assholes and in the wrong for being rude, but it's still an important distinction to me because targeted harassment is something that warrants a different response than simple disagreement and incivility. You can't compel civility and still have truly open public dialogue, but you can compel people not to target and harass others outside of public conversations and lose nothing of particular value to the public conversation.

Just_A_Guy_who_lives · 2025-04-17T16:32:53+00:00

I’m sorry, this is just shitty. Ironic how TERF shit gets everywhere.

SuspicousEggSmell · 2025-04-17T08:40:55+00:00

unfortunately this sub attracts a lot of people who are contrarians to everything they perceive as being mainstream liberal and leftist opinions, so you get a lot of stupid takes on trans people (and other things for that matter), plus reddits weird proclivity to evolutionary psychology and bioessentalism as the end all be all of everything, especially with gender, gets some people who are at best annoying

also not that the recency of it actually matters, but I’m pretty sure assigned sex at birth terminology originated in the 2000’s in regards to intersex people and gradually picked up usage. I think that’s sort of evidence into how all gendered struggles; cis, trans, intersex, or whatever else you’re looking at, are interconnected and need to be fought for together. Both trans mascs and femmes are victimized by misandry and the idea of testosterone poisoning people

DJjaffacake · 2025-04-17T10:21:03+00:00

I know it's not the main focus here but you're 100% right that hatred of trans women is to a large degree a manifestation of misandry (and vice versa, hatred of trans men is a manifestation of misogyny).

EnormousPurpleGarden · 2025-04-19T14:20:12+00:00

TERFs hate us because they see us as men, not women, and apply gendered misandry to us. That's the entire point.

That is correct. TERFs hate trans women for precisely the same reason they hate cis men.

TERFs don't hate trans people qua trans people. They hate males as a sex. TERFs believe that all males are predators and all females are victims, and that those are innate biological traits. Therefore, in a TERF's mind, the only reason a male would identify as a woman is to harm females, and the only reason a female would identify as a man is because she's been brainwashed into thinking that only males can succeed.

Male = evil; female = victim. That's what they beieve biological sex is. Transmisogyny is misandry.

AmericanSamoaSamosa · 2025-04-17T23:31:54+00:00

Left wing, progressive, men’s spaces are constantly teetering. It’s not so much the progressive men as it is the extreme pulls from the right and the extreme repelling from the left

Karmaze · 2025-04-17T11:48:36+00:00

I think this is an issue that's going to be very difficult to get rid of. Let me be clear, I support Trans rights. However...I think there's actually a very real epistemological issue built into that which kinda has to be dealt with.

What the fuck do rights even mean? Especially when we're using the perceived rights and privileges of men as the baseline. Because to be frank, and I'm eventually going to write a top-level, on this, I do not believe men actually have rights and privileges. I think men have responsibilities. And yes, men are HIGHLY rewarded for fulfilling those responsibilities. That much is clear. But the point is....it's wildly divergent.

So....which men? And frankly, I think the problem with a lot of activism in this vein, is it wants to match the rights/privileges that frankly should not exist in the first place. That level of exploitable, abusive entitlement. The one that comes from men being super successful at the Male Gender Role in one way or another. But there's this assumption that's common through Progressivism, some people call it the Apex Fallacy, and it's really at play here, that all men should be viewed through the lens of being at the top.

Truth is, I'm not even being a jerk in this. If you wanted to even say that women's/trans rights should be set at the level of the slightly above average man, I don't even think I'd be upset at that. To be clear, I'm not saying that the way our society views masculinity is correct. I'd snap my fingers and get rid of it if I could. But I can't. And it's very much entrenched.

But yeah. I think there's a reason why activism gets such a negative response among men in particular. Because it's presenting a world that simply does not reflect our reality.

sparkydoggowastaken · 2025-04-17T11:46:56+00:00

I made a recent post here that really exposed me to how much transphobia there is around here, despite it being supposedly left wing.

LordAshur · 2025-04-17T11:12:37+00:00

I’m sorry that you had to deal with that. I do see transphobia here occasionally and tru to call it out when I do. I appreciate you

MayumiTakanawa · 2025-04-17T15:27:40+00:00

Everything you said is 💯 and this sub agrees with you. Unfortunately, because of the name of the sub, it attracts right wing idiots (who also dont give a damn about men and boys), despite being clear this is a politically left sub. All they want to do is push their right wing agenda. They're just as annoying as the screaming lib scolding types.

MayumiTakanawa · 2025-04-17T15:30:16+00:00

Also, fuck that guy. No one has any right to tell you how to describe yourself and your own body.

BhryaenDagger · 2025-04-17T23:25:27+00:00

And yet another trans post in a male advocacy forum…

The OP’s OP (which really isn’t the OP comment from wherever it derives) does make some poor attempts to put contemporary trans issues into perspective- ie, good idea to try, but, no, sex dysphoria isn’t a matter of sexuality but of sex. The issue trans have is w their brains telling them that they’re the opposite sex while the rest of their body contradicts it- and trying to manage that contradiction. It’s also true that misandrists are likely to support men “de-masculatung”, but that just follows logically from their bigotry (and may not even be sufficient for them since “trans women” may still be considered carriers of evil toxic maleness- wouldn’t know, but who cares? They’re bigots.)

But the answers provided by this post’s OP… don’t sound like an “ally”. Is it any wonder men don’t get attention to their issues when even “allies” use the space to discuss their own? Poor you for being offended by something said about trans on a forum not about trans.

I mean, it starts out w “shut up”- always a meaningful argument- but proceeds into the assertion that simply recognizing the biological sex of a trans and not pretending otherwise is “transphobia” (which essentially condemns science itself as bigotry since the science doesn’t pretend). The most compelling case for trans acceptance is for those doing their best to naturally play the part of whatever sex they’re obviously not and thus fit in by not making any issue of it. In that case there’s nothing impositional on others, just an attempt by a trans to handle their situation while being true to themselves and to others. It’s not a matter of telling trans to “shut up” about it, but rather appreciating genuine efforts to integrate w society rather than disrupt it.

Different case when the focus is on silencing/punishing those who find unconvincing a trans’ performative opposite sex behavior and appearance… Just because a trans can never convince the world of being the opposite sex doesn’t in any way make the world bigoted: it just means we have eyes. No one’s inherently calling for harm or discrimination against a trans by not pretending they’re the opposite sex, particularly since they aren’t. A religious person insisting that we recognize we’re going to eternal Hell has the same presumptuousness of arguing against reality and imposing on others w the rubric of being offended if we don’t comply. Taking offense is not a meaningful argument either.

Mutual tolerance/acceptance doesn’t require acquiescence and submission of either party. In fact, it usually presumes a level of respect wherein there won’t be. That’s how alliances work, and if browbeating is your idea of working together, well, we have a fundamental disagreement, and arguing for men’s rights will be compromised… as we see here… It comes down to a simple “you’re not the bossa me.”

Then there’s the most telling concluding statement:

“People spend years of transitioning and tens of thousands of dollars on surgery to make their self-ID real.”

Just because a woman spends herself into debt to get breast implants and has to cope with any number of risks over it or a botch job doesn’t mean they’ve now got big natural boobs. The sacrifice doesn’t change reality, and if that was the idea, it was a naive one. Also referring to them as “fake boobs” isn’t condescension or bigotry, just reality. The investment entitles her to nothing, but certainly not the expectation that others pretend those are natural. She simply now has surgically implanted sacs in her chest.

As it is reality that a trans attempting to assert themselves as the opposite sex is someone who isn’t necessarily just trying to deceive people but sorta has to try for their own good- to ease their own dysphoria- and for the good of others- to make it easier for others to accept it. Sorta. A trans w a sense of humor and humility about their predicament- both physical and social- will be approaching the matter as one of negotiation w others, helping them to be comfortable w what’s really just the trans’ problem, encouraging and making it easier for others to refer to them as the sex they’re not… but not insisting or expecting or ranting or shutting people up. If they’re capable of and willing to accept it when they don’t get whatever they want whenever they want it (kinda like everyone else)- to accept specifically when others aren’t going to go along w the overt ruse- then it shows a level of maturity that deserves respect. Earns it. The trans is at least doing their best to integrate w others despite the dysphoria they bring w them of having others treat someone as if they’re the opposite sex than they relatively obviously are. On the other hand, using the trans “self-ID” as a way to divide the men’s movement and distract from genuine issues of men’s experience is deserving of disrespect… regardless of how many yrs and tens of thousands went into the trans surgery industry getting to this moment.

There’s a moment at the end of the old movie “Rainmaker” where a Christian evangelist woman- after a great deal of investment in her Christian identity- takes actions which make it clear that it was all a lie. Her response was something like what the OP said, but the movie context was more real: she was admitting that it’s a ruse as an identity but that she’s now got nothing else in her life other than the thoroughly invested ruse that used to convince herself as well. “If all that work doesn’t make me who I am, what does?” Not for me to decide, but at the very least a trans should have thorough patience w those of us who haven’t spent a penny or a minute being anything other than the sex we are…

MetaCommando · 2025-04-18T09:51:24+00:00

I wanna know more about Sumeria

KPplumbingBob · 2025-04-18T15:19:10+00:00

I mean, you can be an ally to the movement and still have people disagree with you in a maybe not exactly polite manner. No targeting going on here. In fact, if usernames weren't ommited I would call this targeting.

The other trans thread the other day had a great post on this. You can be pro trans but you are still not allowed to ask any questions. Immediate transphobe label right there just for saying the evidence is far from conclusive.

Title	Dealing with transphobia and targeting despite me making it clear I’m an ally (scroll to see what I’m talking about).
Author	ThePrimordialSource
Upvotes	131
Comments	70
Date	April 17, 2025 2:11 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/1k11vy9/dealing_with_transphobia_and_targeting_despite_me/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/dealing-with-transphobia-and-targeting-despite-me.1549847 https://theredarchive.com/post/1549847

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