Here's a way to intellectually challenge feminists, hey feminists how come the most negative of stereotypes to marginalized communities always apply strongest to the male counterparts?

G_E_E_S_E · 2023-09-01T16:22:58+00:00

I don’t think that would be very convincing to many feminists. I think they would argue that those stereotypes are based in what they believe is true for men in general.

Upbeat_Athlete4763 · 2023-09-01T17:02:11+00:00

When a woman is caught raping or abusing, it's called a rarity and a woman in question soon holds the excuse to her behavior. Unless she kills small children. I guess that's where the line is. If man does any of that, people use all kind of generalizations and say that they're not surprised. Because they already knew that men ARE monsters. And I think it's something in our brains and in our culture. Because there's always this narrative of women being victims of men and you'd have to look purposefully for the opposite. And even finding it, chances are great, that male victims of abuse/rape are laughed at and ridiculed. I was sexually harassed by women many times throughout my life and I didn't even consider telling anyone. Because I know how people would react. Because men can't be raped. Because losing trust in people, falling apart for months, having flashbacks and feeling numb and broken is not enough to be considered a victim, if you're a man. Feminists often happy to say that men should express their emotions and cry, but I guess we can only do that if it helps their agenda.

Troll4everxdxd · 2023-09-01T16:33:09+00:00

Easy, they would blame all of this in white straight men oppressing those groups just like they oppressed women since the dawn of time. Remember folks, anything that men suffer is caused by... You guessed it, OTHER MEN!

Either that, or like the other comment said, use some skewed logic to justify those stereotypes.

Harsimaja · 2023-09-01T17:58:57+00:00

“[Members of ethnic group X] have a higher rate of violent crime and often target people like me, so when I see a group of them I cross over to the other side of the street”: racist.

“Men have a higher rate of violent crime and often target people like me, so when I see a group of them I cross over to the other side of the street”: stunning and brave, this is other men’s problem to address, etc.

Johntoreno · 2023-09-01T19:15:22+00:00

You're not really challenging them by engaging with their arguments that's meant to keep you stuck in a defensive haze. By letting them frame the discussion in a way which suits their narrative, you concede the ground to them and unnecessarily put yourself in a defensive position. Of course, Men face sexist discrimination in Society and this isn't something that has to be argued for, the fact that feminists have convinced you that you need to do so is a testament to their immaculate Gaslighting.

EricAllonde · 2023-09-02T07:30:34+00:00

Or… just ask feminists what legal rights they are “fighting for” in the name of equal rights. What legal rights do men have but they lack today, in this Western country (so they don’t attempt the usual feminist deflections to the distant past or to the Middle East).

The only answer I can ever get from them is, “You’re a misogynist for asking that question”.

Of course that’s ridiculous. What sort of activist ever “fights” for some sort of change to the law, but won’t ever tell anyone what it is they want?

Silver_Switch_3109 · 2023-09-01T21:39:03+00:00

They would just blame men and find a way to talk about how these stereotypes are more harmful to women.

Poopygoopyoopy · 2023-09-02T06:03:56+00:00

It even goes down to trans people.

There’s a reason why trans women are most often the ones getting brutalized. It’s because transphobes view them as men.

Transphobia is literally just a extension of a hatred of men

blueyb · 2023-09-01T19:21:44+00:00

Do some of you actually believe there's a logical trap out there, a big AHA! moment where you're going to get one of those sneaky feminists and have them cornered, and they'll admit you were right the whole time, and then everyone around you will start applauding!?!?

There's a lot of discourse to be had between feminists and men's activists, looking for a "GOTCHA" moment ain't the play.

poplarleaves · 2023-09-01T21:33:40+00:00

I know you meant this as a "gotcha!" to feminists, but as a feminist, I agree with the point(s) you're making.

My main answer to your stated question is, a lot of the negative stereotypes you mentioned are about violence, and violence is seen as a stereotypically masculine trait. Another reason is that men are stereotyped as "active" whereas women are stereotyped as "passive", so traits that show themselves the most in people's actions are often attributed to men. Whether these are the "worst" traits is very subjective, but you're right that this is unfair discrimination towards men and that men get the brunt of it when it comes to the stereotypes you mentioned.

In real life, I've known women who were frequent physical abusers, and I've known men who wouldn't hurt a fly. I've known people of varying racial and gender identities who all fall at different points on the violence/anger/abusiveness scales, and it mostly depends on a lot of factors in their personal lives beyond race and sex and sexuality and gender. It pains and angers me every time I see someone make a joke about how men are all supposedly trash, stereotyping them as all [insert bad traits here], especially when they make women out to be angels who can do no wrong, and I've spoken out against it a few times in my personal life. Heck, TwoXChromosomes has become mostly intolerable for me to look at because the top posts just tend to be "This man was bad" rage bait where the comments just rag on men.

Maybe you'll say I don't count as a feminist because I recognize these things, but I've seen a lot of feminists acknowledge these issues in one way or another. The main problem imo is not that most feminists will argue against the existence of discrimination against men, it's that there's a lack of understanding, support, and focus from feminists on these issues. Some downplay the problem, others just don't notice it, and yes there are some who just insist it doesn't exist. But I think more and more people are starting to see gender-based discrimination as a multi-sided issue.

dependency_injector · 2023-09-01T18:41:46+00:00

Why would you want to intellectually challenge feminists, they're already intellectually challenged

Intergalacticio · 2023-09-01T20:39:11+00:00

The way you’ve written these arguments sounds very rude and confrontational. This is not going to be persuasive in the least (particularly with people who disagree with you). You need to hedge your arguments and approach them in a more tentative and empathetic manner but still give people questions so that can think and reflect on their own morality.

CR9_Kraken_Fledgling · 2023-09-01T21:30:15+00:00

I don't think your point is bad, but I do think it would be unconvincing. Too easily dismissed as accurate/perpetuated by other men.

alfredo094 · 2023-09-01T20:25:59+00:00

What would the point of this be? Do you think feminists are your enemies?

Marty-the-monkey · 2023-09-02T09:27:52+00:00

With a lot of these stereotypes, you are only on the surface and not asking the axioms or latent truths as to where they come from, which is an important aspect to understand.

Of the ones you mention only one is rooted in a completely different area than gender, and that's the one about black people.

Black people (men and women) have been oversexualized as a way of dehumanizing their race for a long time. With with women I think it's called the Jezibel trope and men it's mandango or something to that effect.

bmtc7 · 2023-09-02T12:01:01+00:00

It's almost as if toxic masculinity hurts men of every community.

kayceeplusplus · 2023-09-02T00:21:39+00:00

As a black woman, I smelled bullshit right off the bat on the first one. 🙄

Early_Sun_3097 · 2023-09-02T05:57:58+00:00

I don't know about that one about black men i think there stereotyped as being in gangs but that one is more used on white men nowadays

griii2 · 2023-09-02T10:09:59+00:00

Intersectionality will teach you that Black women are most affected.

Delicious-Tea-6718 · 2023-09-02T16:08:14+00:00

I'd like to add something to your LGBT point, the whole transgender debate. It's always about the public bathroom situation with the fear being about men identitying as women to watch girls take a shit or something.

The rad fems and the conservatives horse shoe pretty good on this one. Tucker carlson invites TERFS and they're practically jerking each other off.

What about the trans men? No one ever talks about them, because the men never minded to begin with and the feminists view them as "safe" men.

DoubleEggberts · 2023-09-02T22:45:14+00:00

Google gamma bias

Outrageous-Bit3237 · 2023-09-03T12:38:15+00:00

You've provided examples, but I say this not to debate or refute, just as more of a devil's advocate - all of these examples are anecdotal and use confirmation bias unless you provide data backing them up.

Now, you can argue these points, still, you'd just have to approach them from an understanding that you'd be arguing from a point of subjective, anecdotal experience, and your opponent would have to acknowledge that, in their own subjective, anecdotal experience, their experience is congruent to yours. That's a difficult thing to do with people who disagree with you. Using anecdotal, subjective experience just gives them to many "outs" to "win" with instead of having an adult discussion about it.

They'll probably start by blaming the patriarchy and internalized female misogyny. And they'll also use the "whataboutisms" that are here of which I won't list just because I'm simply too lazy to do so right now. And they'll finally say "Well, that may be true, but women get r*ped so I win" as I've seen before and start doing the oppression olympics if they're fully backed into a corner.

Concerntroll666 · 2023-09-03T22:19:35+00:00

As for the misogynistic autistic trope QZ was touching on this back in 2017

https://qz.com/1053590/the-new-netflix-series-atypical-portrays-autistic-men-as-sexist-jerks

Phantombiceps · 2023-09-15T08:00:53+00:00

Jews.

how often is the crude racist stereotype of

the scrooge, the scheming lawyer, the occupier, the merchant, the banker, the penniless guy working the apple cart , the judas, the communist,

in the antisemitic imaginary portrayed as female?

Title	Here's a way to intellectually challenge feminists, hey feminists how come the most negative of stereotypes to marginalized communities always apply strongest to the male counterparts?
Author	International-Pool29
Upvotes	123
Comments	86
Date	September 1, 2023 10:11 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/16733f7/heres_a_way_to_intellectually_challenge_feminists/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/heres-a-way-to-intellectually-challenge-feminists.1230241 https://theredarchive.com/post/1230241

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