Practically speaking, men need to focus more on elaborating the difficulties we are facing and stop hating on other groups of people, even if the hatred is well-justified

jessi387 · 2025-03-13T07:47:21+00:00

Well one thing that was actually productive, albeit, inadvertently, was men withdrawing from major institutions : the army, academia, the corporate world, marriage, even the dating scene, and other social circles. By leaving in large enough numbers, people actually woke up. As mentioned in the Misandry Bubble, after 2020, the costs of misandry have begun to shift onto women ( particularly liberal feminists) and other members of society ( the political class and social conservatives)

So ironically , the most productive thing was to do nothing LOL.

I guess they’ll see we weren’t so useless after all once they see what it’s like when we are gone.

Big-Flatworm-135 · 2025-03-13T09:52:34+00:00

I don’t condone hate or an obsessive preoccupation with criticizing something. But I do think desacralizing feminism is a worthy project. Treating feminism as beyond criticism and as a moral imperative can shut down discussions that need to happen. The line for what speech is considered needlessly inflammatory or hateful is pushed past what is rational when things are treated as sacred.

chengannur · 2025-03-13T15:16:55+00:00

Our objectives should be working toward our goal, equality, not revenge-hating with another group.

Nah, why do we have to keep the imaginary moral high ground,

Fair-Might-5473 · 2025-03-13T15:18:36+00:00

We tried to talk. They called us names. The discussion ship has sailed a long time ago. They cannot see themselves beyond the underdog of society. Fixing societal issues was never part of the ideology. It's all about their dissatisfaction. People still want to talk about the pay gap in 2025 after being proven wrong. Instead, people just made up another gap to convince themselves how oppressed. Anything that others have, they should have too. You cannot win a discussion with someone who believes that life is fair, despite being proven wrong. From that point onwards, the only possible proof you can give to people is pain and suffering. Starvation of hunger, social insecurity, etc. Some people don't know how privileged they are, until you remove certain things from their lives.
As someone mentioned before here, the best way to support is by doing nothing for society. If they can do it better, they shouldn't be asking us for help.

SpicyMarshmellow · 2025-03-13T15:39:21+00:00

However, feminists are still perceived as positive by the general public

Add to this statement that feminism is directly responsible for many of the issues men face, and continue to advocate, with great societal influence, for men to continue to face their issues... and here you have the problem.

I think the Duluth Model is largely responsible for the worst things that have happened to me in my life. Opposing its policies and the general set of beliefs and attitudes driving it is my top men's issue. How is it possible to work on this issue without being directly antagonistic towards feminism, which created the Duluth Model, and will still almost universally promote the same set of beliefs and attitudes even when they claim to disown the Duluth Model itself?

If feminism is perceived as positive, isn't it by this favorability that they're able to get society to entertain Duluth Model-style policies and beliefs? So in order to counter that agenda, isn't it necessary to address the means by which they enact their agenda?

I think it's good practice in interacting with individuals to judge them as individuals, not labels, and engage appropriately. But I think that's unrelated to the stances one takes towards a movement or organization.

ZealousidealCrazy393 · 2025-03-13T14:25:43+00:00

I do agree that we should focus on men's specific issues more than we do. I think the most unhelpful thing of all is to post misandrist content found elsewhere on the web and then sit there telling each other how awful it is.

However, I do think there needs to be some critical analysis of feminism. The more something positions itself as beyond reproach, the more we need to criticize it. But I think our criticism needs to be on its logical contradictions, its misrepresentation of history and statistics. Clarifying where feminism has deceived us is helpful and educational.

KPplumbingBob · 2025-03-13T10:14:02+00:00

I'm not convinced. Feminism gets what it wants by doing exactly that, not by being reasonable and playing it "fair".

Former_Range_1730 · 2025-03-13T13:25:27+00:00

You can't elaborate on the difficulties without revealing the people who make things difficult. In this case, the people of Feminist Ideology.

"However, feminists are still perceived as positive by the general public"

No. They aren't. The media makes it seem that way. But you should see how the teens in school act on this topic. There's just as many anit-feminists as there are feminists. They hate each other. And it's not a male/female divide. It's mainly divided based on sexuality actually. With hetero boys and hetero girls banding together on one side, And the non hetero boys and girls banding on the other side in the name of feminism.

Even the teachers. If she has blue hair and goes by they/them, she's always a feminist. If she's a feminine woman who talks about her husband and kids, she tends to be a traditionalist.

beowulves · 2025-03-14T05:23:27+00:00

Need people to care first. Bottom line is hate for the problem is all some people have.

Far-Bee-4909 · 2025-03-14T07:15:38+00:00

The problem with the gap opening up between men/boys and women/girls. Is we can't talk about the elephant in the room and that elephant is sex.

I can already guess some of the responses to that; moron, what is he on about, stop obsessing about sex and of course pills/incel and all that rubbish. I am afraid all those responses are irrational, sex and relationships are a huge part of most people's lives. Any attempt to look at the struggles of modern men and boys; without considering such issues, are hopeless.

If you ask many men and boys why they have given up on school, university and work. Many will eventually get to their dating struggles. What is the point in working when they see no possibility of a sex life, a relationship with women or even a family life in their future?

It is a taboo to research such topics but sometimes data to back this up appears. For example, recently in the press they calculated being married is worth a 5K salary premium to a man. Single men did worse in the workplace than men with partners.

Now you can say I am wrong but in my opinion, this is why so many programs to fix the problems facing modern men and boys fail. Be it the education gap, the increasing number neets and men failing in employment.

There has been a huge change in the dating and the sexual world. We have gone from a world where pretty much every man got married and had a long term partner. To one in which increasing numbers of men find that impossible to do.

It is absurd to thing that doesn't have an impact when it comes to education and employment.

rump_truck · 2025-03-14T15:05:16+00:00

I mostly agree with this, with some modifications.

You're absolutely right that feminism is the elephant in the room. Feminism is so large that all of our advocacy strategies must be crafted with feminism in mind. It's very similar to an individual citizen trying to sue a large corporation, we will never win a direct battle of attrition. The only viable strategy is to build presence without going directly against feminism whenever possible, and we should only directly confront feminism where we are clearly in the right.

I think the Movember foundation is a good example of not directly opposing feminism. Cancer is not a politically charged issue. The Movember foundation uses private donations and not government funding, so they can't argue that it's taking away from women's issues. If feminists wanted to try to shut it down, which I haven't seen any indication of, they would have to severely overextend themselves. We would be very obviously in the right, and they would effectively end up giving us social capital.

Other commenters have mentioned the Duluth Model, and I think that's a good example of an area where we can afford to oppose feminism directly. No study that allows for the possibility of women abusing men backs it up, and even its own creators disavow it. Women are not any less likely to be violent toward their partners than men are, they're just less capable of doing serious damage.

Similarly, rape and sexual violence are another area where I've noticed the discourse shifting. In 2010 I remember people arguing about whether it would even be appropriate to use the word rape when a woman forces a man to have sex, then dismissing it as irrelevant because it never actually happens anyway. Why waste energy arguing about how to classify a hypothetical?

As soon as the CDC started collecting stats on "made to penetrate", it became clear that the numbers are a lot more similar than most people expected. People still talk about it like the perpetrators are overwhelmingly male and the victims are overwhelmingly female, but they've been forced to acknowledge that significant numbers of male victims of female perpetrators exist, which is a huge step up from being seen as a hypothetical.

Intelligent-You983 · 2025-03-13T18:32:11+00:00

I think venting and calling out issues valid. Moreso because many issues are actively muted , distorted , and muted by a lot of if not most feminists.The issue is when it veers into hate and the very othering we are speaking out against.

RecreationalPorpoise · 2025-03-13T14:47:18+00:00

Nothing would ever convince people to support our cause. People are biologically disincentivized from helping men.

CntFoolTheWomanAgain · 2025-04-04T02:50:04+00:00

It’s just exhausting, especially as a man of color when the onus is constantly on you to be patient and understanding and caring and lead with love when you hear people talk as if you’re inherently flawed, a failure, beyond redemption, beneath them, so on and so forth

AnFGhoster · 2025-03-24T20:28:33+00:00

Are you kidding? We spend a lot of time and effort already tip-toeing around those "other groups" in order to be heard at all. It doesn't matter. We will be called misogynists and extremists just for talking about male issues.

a-fucking-donkey · 2025-03-15T17:34:47+00:00

Thank you! I’ve been downvoted so much for saying exactly this. Just trashing on other groups all the time kinda makes people the exact thing that they’re complaining about. Spread awareness of the issues and the impact they have and how we can solve it instead of only saying “feminism bad” because that discourse is not productive

Title	Practically speaking, men need to focus more on elaborating the difficulties we are facing and stop hating on other groups of people, even if the hatred is well-justified
Author	Tireless_AlphaFox
Upvotes	163
Comments	83
Date	March 13, 2025 1:30 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/1ja0nv1/practically_speaking_men_need_to_focus_more_on/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/practically-speaking-men-need-to-focus-more-on.1546412 https://theredarchive.com/post/1546412

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