4chan on men suicides.

TracyMorganFreeman · 2015-10-03T16:15:29+00:00

The harder society squeezes, the more men leave society, violently or otherwise.

ARedthorn · 2015-10-03T20:47:14+00:00

HeForShe: women need men to help them with their problems, because working together is good for everyone

Toxic Masculinity: fix it yourself, why should I help you?

Lethn · 2015-10-03T16:03:48+00:00

Is this Kool Aid? Because I tended to agree with it and it made a lot of sense.

45674575465764 · 2015-10-03T17:57:44+00:00

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Bortasz · 2015-10-03T19:40:28+00:00

It's interesting that a large portion off these mass shooters are romantically lonely and sexually frustrated.

Kardlonoc · 2015-10-03T21:48:52+00:00

I suggest you guys read Iron John in which he describes how this sort of society came to be. Throughout history and other parts of the world men have always had social groups, groups of all ages, where they came together and bonded and learned from each other. This is from child to young adult.

Such a thing is non-existant in western society, in America in particular. It simply disappeared when industrialization and distractions came along. Added to this is the idea that men are the sole breadwinners and women should raise the kids.

This really did more damage than anything. From history generally children worked with thier father but the modern western civlization also destroyed that along with the idea of modern schooling (every child needs to go to school).

It created an absolute in balance in the family that basically made the father not even present for several generations. Because of that kids that grew up to be fathers and wanted to give their children more attention...don't know what to do. What it is to be a father and what they should do. Instead they let the mother handle or raise them like a mother would in a feminine way.

Its a constantly frustrating experience for boys to be constantly raised by females as most females expect boys to behave like females: they should be still, keep calm and don't be direct.

Some boys come out of this perfectly fine but a lot others don't and it messes them up for years until they get control of their lives. And some never do. There is a chance you lose your friends in high-school and then college, go into a job, maybe go into another job and come out of that with only a couple of acquaintances or none.

It is extremely debilitating in our society to expect boys only social gateway for a long time is the grade school. When parents ask "why is my child going online?" its because that's their social fallback. And when groups are comprised only of children socially what do you think happens? Lord of flies shit. Bullying and so on. Thats were the outcasts are born, the socially unaccepted ones because the social group in grade school is "prison rules" .

Teachers can't really expect to socialize with kids because they have to grade them. Its why gym teachers are usually a favorite because there is the direction and friendliness they want.

This turned out to be a rant about schools. But most of the shooters and suicides are from young men. Expressly in grade school/ college or directly out of it. Its not a lack of attention either, nor a lack of empathy but rather a lack of connection with men and boys in these straits.

FangornForest · 2015-10-03T19:19:19+00:00

It's almost like these 4chaners are real people

GoogleNoAgenda · 2015-10-03T16:57:33+00:00

Wish I had read this when I was at 20 and beyond depressed.

MrDoradus · 2015-10-03T16:27:58+00:00

I expected something hugely different, was positively surprised. They summed it up nicely, nothing much left to say.

And really, the most prevalent response to this issue is the most superficial one "gun control" and further vilification. Yeah, let's not try tackling this issue by being nicer to these individuals, just take the guns away and continue kicking them. They won't be able to wreak enough havoc this way when they break. Only when there's men involved there doesn't need to be a politically correct response to/handling of the issue.

Key_Lime · 2015-10-03T19:06:27+00:00

This is why I try to find compassion for the "bad guys" as I posted here: https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3mx33u/no_not_bias_at_all/cvjd8ul

It's a complex problem with no easy solution. Simply dismissing them as "sick murderers" might be socially appealing, but it does very little to address the larger problem.

Unfortunately I believe taking such a nuanced stance on it would be even worse for our image. Murderer sympathizers on top of misogynists.

Fizics · 2015-10-03T23:24:17+00:00

Yes but obviously women suffer more because something.

Mtownsprts · 2015-10-03T19:30:54+00:00

People really should just be nicer and more caring towards each other. That'd be more effective than anything else. We're just too selfish.

smeata · 2015-10-03T21:32:57+00:00

Honestly, I think the biggest problem is that men have been neutered by modern society. The modern man must bear the full burden of his family's financial well-being, he must always maintain the status as the stoic hard-faced leader of his family, and must always carry the responsibility of making difficult choices such as when to move, when to quit a job and seek a new one, and when to initiate the taking on of hundreds of thousands in debt in order to buy a home. At the same time, he has to bend over backwards to not say something "offensive" (lest he lose his job and reputation), he has to tolerate becoming the scapegoat for all the problems of today (after all, speaking against such asinine sexism just makes you look crazy), and he must always pay for the date, buy flowers for the wife, and be all warm and fuzzy (but, you know, not too warm and fuzzy or sweet, because that makes you lose your SO's respect or gets you called "whipped").

Why do we accept this? We roll over and take it. Hell, it is predominantly male politicians that are the ones codifying these ass backwards ideas into law! Our forefathers and other assorted ancestors are rolling over in their graves at our complacency. If men had just a sliver of dignity left, we'd stand up and say, "enough is enough, go F yourself."

But we really don't have a sliver of dignity left. Look around. Men getting beaten by their wives? Absolutely hilarious! Men losing their kids in divorce? Eh, who cares, kids don't need dads. A guy got fired for complementing a co-worker's dress? I mean, what a dumbass; everyone knows you can't do that! A man cries because he feels emotion after success/failure/retirement? What a wimp, that's definitely making the SportsCenter newsreel for a few weeks. Every single commercial depicting good ole dad as a bumbling, fumbling, stumbling moron? What a knee-slapper!

Silence. Seriously, it's no wonder so many young men are so hopelessly lost. They look up to the men that should be role models, and they see nothing but cowardice, self-hatred, and depression. Where are the Clint Eastwoods, the John Waynes, the Eisenhowers? Where are they? Because all I see in today's "modern manhood" is nothing but weak-kneed boys that never learned how to grow up. The reason crime, anger, depression, suicide, and unfortunately, violence, are so problematic is that boys see the "men" they'll one day grow up to be, and feel nothing but resentment and disgust.

Today's men need to realize that yes, we actually ARE the problem, but only because we're doing nothing to stop this. We are too afraid to rock the boat, too afraid to put out necks out, too afraid of getting labeled "extreme," "crazy," or "sexist/racist/bigoted/ ____phobic" to mutter a single word in protest.

The thing is, I'm just as guilty as everyone else. I'm a young guy still trying to get established in a career. Honestly, we need some men who are older and financially independent to wake up and smell the roses, and take leadership.

INTERNET_TOUGHGUY666 · 2015-10-03T18:20:45+00:00

4chan is great. Idk why the MRA bothers with leddit. I saw a discussion on pol a few days back on the Oregon shooter. Basically they summed up the cause to something that sounded very probable.

In the current social condition you've got all the prior fringe groups and outcasts at the helm of social acceptance. Gay is now cool, trams is now brave and heroic, and if you're black you dindunuffin. People defend these former outcasts like they used to defend their children for drunk driving.

But then you have another group of outcasts that are the target and brunt of every new world punchline. This new target is men. And it's not the privileged "shitlords" that the SJWs hail as the second coming of Hitler. Instead it mostly seems to be people with autism and a wide variety of men with social and/or mental handicaps.

The world laughs as the awkward beta male gets slapped around by strong independent womyn in the media. It's now a social issue to present these men as heroes to women. But nothing changes in the alpha male hero narrative that women so fondly attach themselves to.

The sexual revolution only hurt one group: men. Now 20% of males score 80% of women. Women are left to natural instinct and all you get is selective choosing that leaves the disenfranchised men in the dust. Without an outlet for their natural instinct it leaves these men frustrated and confused. The lovely ladies sit around laughing at these "nice guys" expecting some scraps of sex to be left over from their escapades with Mr. Chad. No nice guy, don't get your rapist little brain set on this girl.

So it's very much to be expected that in a shit society like this these outcasts would turn to an outlet of similar minds to seek acceptance. This is the purpose of r9k. But what respite will a group provide that only confirms the pathetic state of your existence? R9k urged the Oregon shooter to blast up a school. They made sure to ask him to target Stacey and Chad. And there you have it, it's not a problem of gun violence. Someone who has no reason to live and sees the people surrounding them as a threat to their own existence is a caged animal. Taking the guns away will do nothing.

The violence will stop if and only if the world makes a place for these people. Like it made a place for the gays, trans, women and minorities of the world. And when it stops marginalizing their problems as "male tears".

tech4life94 · 2015-10-03T22:36:17+00:00

r9k is a pretty unique place on the internet, it's a meeting place for the socially alienated, ackward, lonely, rejected, unemployed, uneducated, girlfriendless, friendless outcasts that society ignores and sweeps under the carpet. Why should they care about a society that has done nothing for them? I am honestly waiting for the day my Govt announces its action plan to help this underclass of men but every day it's more of the same:help the females, help the immigrants, help the tranny, help the gay. There's a army of young men who've given up on life completely, given up on having a family, owning a home, getting a job, getting a education. They're invisible to the world.

anonlymouse · 2015-10-03T19:35:58+00:00

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2015-10-04T03:07:19+00:00

4chan has some good conversations sometimes. I forget it can be a legitimate platform for discussion.

Duthos · 2015-10-03T18:53:31+00:00

I now understand my life.

75657656fddfdf56 · 2015-10-03T16:50:45+00:00

Those posts aren't wrong, thanks for putting the condom on for us and picking and choosing the insightful ones and bringing them here.

We'll just blame it on the dudes, like we always do. Like we always do. Gotta conform. Gotta act like everyone else. Anything else deserves ostracization and ridicule for being "weird" "creepy," but really, merely different.

We have a society until the society can possibly be blamed for something it did to men. Then men are individual actors and nothing more.

ZogJhones · 2015-10-04T04:59:47+00:00

As someone who's always been an isolated loner, Milo is right. The times I was forced to be alone were like hell. I constantly wanted to kill myself. I eventually picked up my business, and, that's pretty much what keeps me going. Not everyone gets that same aspiration from life. If it werent for what I do... I don't know how I'd live.

Zdrack · 2015-10-04T07:09:33+00:00

I'm confused. You say this is 4chan?

2015-10-04T10:44:22+00:00

Let me see if I get this straight. 4chan is suggesting compassion towards others?

nuesuh · 2015-10-04T11:38:09+00:00

isn't that the hacker that released those nudes?

2015-10-04T15:22:40+00:00

It's really sad that 4chan of all places has a deeper and more nuanced understanding of the issue than the mainstream media does.

midnighttycoon · 2015-10-04T18:03:18+00:00

Milo is 4chan? Or is it Nero? I'm confused

Mikesapien · 2015-10-04T01:46:42+00:00

failing to turn attention on yourself and trying to be more compassionate to others will mire society into the same impossible battle we're facing in the Middle East

loneliness

alienation from society

society and the media constantly demonizing you, proclaiming that you are responsible for everything [bad] in your life

society expressing sympathy and support for just about everybody else

Concerning "the Middle East" in this facile, monolithic fashion, Anon is forgetting:

political power vacuum(s)
regional instability
lack of infrastructure
lack of education
lack of information technology
political disenfranchisement
meddling foreign policies by Russia, America, and others

And perhaps the most important factor of all:

Islamic Extremism

It's dreadfully disingenuous to say that young men in the Middle East are merely social outcasts with no safety nets.

Importantly, "the impossible battle" Anon describes is waged by religious radicals who defer in all ways to 7th century epileptic ramblings of an illiterate pedophile imperialist warlord slaver (lovingly called "the Prophet") transcribed decades after the fact from his followers' hearsay, claiming to be the unimpeachable word of God.

The comparison between the followers of this primitive dogma, and various North American Herostratic criminals, is tenuous at best, but simplistic, cynical, and dishonest at worst.

Unenjoyed · 2015-10-04T03:10:37+00:00

Cliches and generalities sound great to some. To others they just sound like exaggerations.

Mikesapien · 2015-10-03T23:19:35+00:00

It would be a neat thing if all of the main contributors to this annoying red pill/SJW/whoever gender war were to disappear from our planet.

It would be nice to browse the internet without seeing this stupid shit spewed on all of the major sites.

That won't happen, though. No, your sides will keep fanning the flames until eventually people die. Yes, someone, or some group, from one of your factions, male, female, other, will get worked up enough to kill.

Soooo, what happens after that? What's the end goal here? It kind of seems like it's bored people, who need something to do, something to bitch about, or keep their minds busy. I understand that, but I wish that your people, on both sides of your gender war, would find something better to do than cause this drama.

It's annoying the rest of us.

EnysAtSea · 2015-10-04T05:13:38+00:00

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Abe_Vigoda · 2015-10-03T23:38:43+00:00

I realize this is /r/mensrights but fuck the lot of you for being just as bad as the people you're all mad at.

Waaah, our rights. You bunch of fucking pussies. You sit in this sub and complain about how women are so mean and oppressive and you sound just as whiny and stupid as those other shitheads who call themselves feminists or social just warrior types.

Suicide isn't a gender biased issue. It affects everyone and the best way to help people is to talk to them, understand their problems, be empathetic and leave your goddamned politics at the fucking door.

Go look on /r/suicidewatch and see how many people on there are depressed, lost, hurt, and need help, but nope, you dinks would rather sit on here and act like a bunch of crying dildos.

Key_Lime · 2015-10-04T07:39:40+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	4chan on men suicides.
Author	Bortasz
Upvotes	1965
Comments	214
Date	October 3, 2015 3:20 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3ncm1w/4chan_on_men_suicides/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/4chan-on-men-suicides.970146 https://theredarchive.com/post/970146

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