DEI mandates backfired disastrously

corporate_robot_dude · 2025-01-28T17:35:57+00:00

Lol this is basically the same story going on at many other woke Western companies and instituitions. This is also why China is starting to outcompete Western companies in many areas (see: Deepseek)

The problem starts from the top and in HR. HR has always been female dominated and has a big role in setting the environment of the corporate workspace. But instead of providing the right motivations for the workforce to do their best, they always have to find something to meddle with to justify their value.

Ironically, you'll never see them pushing this equality nonsense on "lesser" jobs like the cleaners, landscapers, plumbers, and etc.

dougpschyte · 2025-01-28T17:01:17+00:00

https://www.nature.com/articles/srep26492

All male groups cooperate better, best performance.

All female worst performing.

In mixed groups, all cooperative initiatives originated from males.

I quit my job in STEM, after years of my projects being handed on a plate to female co-workers.

DEI can go fuck itself.

RoryTate · 2025-01-28T17:16:09+00:00

So what is the gender makeup of your HR dept? I'm betting somewhere around 5% male, if it's anywhere near the average in most companies. Personally, I would just ask them why the "Diversity is our strength" mantra only seems to apply in male-dominated fields, and never gets mandated elsewhere.

Unless HR deigns to practice what they preach for a few years and proves the benefits of these unfair and discriminatory quotas in their own work, then what they're doing is nothing but supremacy under a nicer-sounding name.

MisterBowTies · 2025-01-28T17:42:01+00:00

I'm curious what the gender ratio is in the HR department. Seems like it should be about 50-50 right?

SidewaysGiraffe · 2025-01-28T17:00:39+00:00

My answers: 1. Yes, IF an equal amount of equally qualified candidates of each gender apply. In practical terms, probably not. I mean, it can happen, but you wouldn't want to bet on it. 2. By firing the people responsible for the blatantly discriminatory decisions AND those who tolerated them. In civilized countries, that kind of thing is illegal (which doesn't stop it, but it DOES slow it down, and make punishment possible, at least). 3. By making hiring gender-blind, and only looking at qualifications. Meritocracy: it's what's for dinner. 4. Sexism is sexism; that doesn't change simply because it becomes socially acceptable. Such things are best "handled" via flamethrower. Flamethrower with underbarrel coilgun that fires chlorine trifluoride. 5. Find a new company. That well is poisoned.

The being (person, group, organization, what have you) that says "You can't get this job because of your sex" today is the one who'll say "You can't live in this house" tomorrow, "You can't live in this country" a few decades down the line, and "You can't live" not long after that.

It's the kind of thing that no one can afford to tolerate.

63daddy · 2025-01-28T18:43:04+00:00

Meritocracy is efficient, fair and equal. Push it as the new norm.

The goal shouldn’t be parity of gender or any other demographic. The goal shouldn’t be to hire the best candidate possible. Nobody should oppose this.

If there’s a concern about discriminating against female candidates in a male dominated workplace, you can: 1. Have HR strip gender identifying names and pronouns in initial evaluation, so the search committee doesn’t know the gender. 2. Have a female appointee to the committee who’s job it is to verify the committee explains why the top chosen candidate is most qualified.

Restore confidence by removing those with a history of discrimination from the search process, much as Trump is removing those who have a strong history of promoting discrimination.

Even if men and women were equal, the odds of getting equal men and equal women based on meritocracy is remote. If you flip a coin 100 times the odds are strongly against a 50-50 ratio, not for. This is something many people misunderstand. Again the goal shouldn’t be meritocracy not equal numbers of men and women.

W1shMast3rr · 2025-01-28T20:41:59+00:00

I work in tech. Remotely. We have one female developer out of probably 30ish within the department.

Most of the leadership is women, except at the very top, well they tried that and we almost all lost our jobs so they hired a man to fix things.

All of the product owners are women, who failed upwards. We have two males in the QA group, the rest are women. The two men do the brunt of the heavy lifting.

The women where I work are slow to respond to emails. Slow to respond to IM’s. They seem to just walk away from their computer for hours at a time.

I’ve caught the QA team passing tests that could never have been passed after I inspected the code.

Our product owners write a couple useless sentences in tickets and when you press them act like it’s your fault for not understanding what to do.

Honestly I don’t give a shit. It makes me look like a champ. I don’t go above and beyond. I intentionally work about part time on a full time salary because that’s what these women do, so I’m not going to reward the company for the shit situation they put me in. Even with all the slacking I do, I get great performance reviews.

They pay a lot of these women more than me and they do nothing so it’s only fair in my mind.

If they got rid of all the women it would end up making me work harder by having competent leadership. That’s the nice thing. They don’t care about their job and so they certainly don’t do any oversight of my work.

Let it all burn.

marchingrunjump · 2025-01-28T18:40:33+00:00

The tragedy is that it seems lile men are only able to defend themselves in fields where it is possible to establish some degree of objective criteria. When everything’s subjective women seem to win out. Perhaps that’s why women seems to push for less objective criteria and more subjective criteria.

Ok-Active8747 · 2025-01-28T20:32:13+00:00

Could you imagine is public schools said we arent going to hire any female teachers because we need equal number men to women.

Also we need to do this for jobs like garbage collectors and plumbers. We really need women to step up and be equals here!

Several-Parsnip-1620 · 2025-01-28T21:00:11+00:00

Also in tech, Ive seen the same thing at multiple jobs (though race is a big component too) Im not sure why HR has any influence on creating teams. They aren't engineers, they dont have any understanding of how to create a productive team. And yet they control the hiring process. I cant understand how CEO / CTOs let this happen.

Jack-The-Happy-Skull · 2025-01-28T21:56:41+00:00

Meritocracy is only way forward… any form of judgement that is based on unchangeable aspects of people (race, sex, etc.) is inherently immoral and idiotic.

Pristine-Angle3100 · 2025-01-28T18:45:28+00:00

I bet that this why every website is full of bugs now. The average website runs so much shittier thsn it did a few years ago.

Ahielia · 2025-01-28T20:40:08+00:00

Given how the majority of HR still kept their jobs, this hiring practice will continue once the dust settles.

I would legit find a different job because this shows how the people in (supposed) leadership positions don't care about the productivity and well-being of their established staff, and don't want to make their business the best it can be, but rather virtue signal based on external attributes. They will continue doing it, they won't learn unless it severely hurts their bottom line. Them firing the HR manager was a bandaid and attempt at placating the men in the company who disagrees with these sexist hiring practices.

NohoTwoPointOh · 2025-01-28T20:01:29+00:00

Not likely. They're likely male-dominated because <GASP> men and women are different on average and enjoy different things. Your company tried to engineer biology, which always fails.
Sack every idiot involved with that decision and apologize. I know it won't happen, so the answer is likely, "You can't."
In traditional male-dominated fields, showing those stats and saying "Y'all dun goofed. Up your game!!!" would be sufficient. However, the concepts of agency and accountability isn't exactly symmetric between the two sexes. "Good luck" is all I've got for ya because I don't want to say "You can't" again. Any man who is still there should be planning his exit ASAP. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice?
They're rubbish. You handle them by not establishing that cancer to begin with and instead enforcing a fair-but-firm meritocracy that rewards performance over genitals. Sounds like you guys wrecked a company via feminism. Huzzah!!
Make being on camera during Zoom/Teams meetings mandatory and drop the office thermostat temperature by 1.5 degrees. If that's not possible, then your only choice is to watch the fire from across the river bank and learn your lesson.

PoliteCanadian · 2025-01-28T19:12:19+00:00

Clearly they should just do what Intel did and mandate an equal distribution of performance review outcomes at the department level by gender and race.

WhereProgressIsMade · 2025-01-28T22:22:23+00:00

Is it possible to hire equal amount of women and men in a male dominated field without compromising quality, and if so, how?

In theory you could hire 50% highly qualified women and 50% highly qualified men, but only if both of these were true: 1) The scope is a single smaller company and not the whole industry. 2) Other companies in the industry aren't trying to do the same thing (hire more highly qualified women). There are highly qualified women out there, but there just aren't enough to go around when so many other companies out there are trying to hire them.

What's your opinion on DEI mandates and how should we handle them?

I believe in meritocracy. You should hire the best, most qualified candidate you can. If I have some kind of personal bias against people named "Ed" with blue eyes but the best candidate is named "Ed" and has blue eyes, then that's a personal problem I need to address, try to figure out how to put it aside, etc. Moving resumes straight to the trash if the name is "Ed" just in case they also have blue eyes too is not a good solution. That's something that should be avoided, fixed. If DEI worked on identifying biases, learning how to either resolve them, or at least manage them so that you're able to act unbiased, I'd be fine with the idea. I'd have concerns about feasibility.

I have been on interview teams where we were lucky enough to have 3 well-qualified candidates who all did well on the interview. Then it mostly seemed to come down to chemistry and "team fit". It makes sense you want co-workers you'll get along with and will be cooperative. However, I can see how most people tend to have a natural bias toward people more like themselves. Some DEI-like training, etc. to teach valuing differing backgrounds, etc. too may have a place.

How do you handle the huge rift DEI mandates cause to gender relations in the company where there were previously none?

Going back to meritocracy is all I can think of. Have 1 HR person, scrub applications of any information that indicates gender, race, ethnicity, etc. before it goes to the next one to pick the candidates for the hiring manager to consider. They pick who to interview based on the scrubbed resumes+. Make forms for interview teams to rank each candidate on the factors important for the job. When the team meets to discuss the candidates & who to select, if it's someone other than the highest composite score, there should be very good reasons. If not, then that may indicate something that needs to be looked at closer. You'll probably hire mostly men in a male dominated field this way, but that's kind of how it should end up. Women and minorities that get through should be more trusted because they're capable.

pwishall · 2025-01-28T18:45:44+00:00

If they communicated this publicly to you that's illegal gender discrimination. Imagine if they did this same thing in a school district or with nurses. The few men who apply would be heavily favored and the women would raise a major stink. No reason you shouldn't be able to as well.

SarcasticallyCandour · 2025-01-28T18:45:56+00:00

Well if you at application ratio of men vs women at 5-10% youvwill see the staff are often 30-40% female which doesnt make sense in number showing female privilege.

Its like if teachers were graduated at 15% male you cant really have a school with 30-40% male teachers. It would look and almost never happens.

Women are hired on sex in tech, Eng, Phys etc no doubt. So they will on average be less productive, not because women are biologically less capable but bc they are not hired on skill, experience but on women in HR being identity politics driven.

You can see women in HR most likely dont have a problem that they are influencing decisions more at 90% women to men. This shows hypocrisy and that these DEI activists are more about favoring their sex and not wanting gender balance at all. Its a game and its backfiring. They take pride in damaging a male tech worker's career and damaging a company thry didnt build. If i was a ceo id want more gender balance in the HR dept desperately.

You can bet your last dollar of there were more women in leads these white women in HR would not call it out as needing to be balanced.

It's all a big lie. Medicine, biology, teaching etc all female dominated and no problem there. HR is a rotten field and when women dominate things it becomes a sorority of activists ultimately resulting in chaos.

Its not that women shouldn't be helped in tech its just that thry this is executed is in a destructive anti-male way. Its a vendetta to pamper women to the expense of men as reparations.

opensrcdev · 2025-01-28T17:02:08+00:00

Yup, President Trump is restoring normalcy to our country. We have gone so far down a dark path, that it felt like we would never pull out of it. On his very first day back in office, President Trump restored "merit-based" hiring practices in the government, via Executive Order!

EverySingleMinute · 2025-01-28T21:43:40+00:00

You want your company to succeed, hire the best candidates.

NCC-1701-1 · 2025-01-28T22:08:18+00:00

DEI folks are convinced they are actually better, go read their conversations. This is what kills me, if these racial or gender cohorts are actually better then just start their own damn companies and hire only themselves. The reality is so damn obvious.

ConferenceHungry7763 · 2025-01-28T22:30:19+00:00

In my organisation doing analysis of performance along gender lines would itself be classed as discriminatory. I’m surprised it was ever looked at.

The_0bserver · 2025-01-28T22:53:30+00:00

In my previous company, the top management was mostly female (and these were very competent people, mind you). They still wanted to try to get a more balanced team, so HR and some folks on the hiring panel were told that, HR would be prioritizing women for some time.

The first 2 people that got hired after this policy turned out to be absolutely terrible people, and they were let go pretty soon, since

One girl did very little work, and was definitely not the right fit.
The second one got a crush on the PM and was really creepy about it.

After that we got a few more, they were ok, but management phased that policy out I guess, because for the next time we did hiring rounds, I didn't see much biases from the HR sending us folks.

Salamadierha · 2025-01-28T23:09:25+00:00

Considering stats on staffing by sex are available, would you happen to have the ratio of men to women in HR? If there is a significant difference there, then that's the place to start.

Your questions start with one that's impossible to square away, you can either have equal numbers of men and women in IT, or you can maintain quality. Your evaluations show this.

Mending trust: you can't, you've shown they are potential casualties in gender wars. All you can do is try to minimise their concerns. A significant lump sum to be awarded if they are fired/demoted for anything apart from cause/very poor performance, and mandate a clear process that would do that. No more "you're fired because I say so" crap. You fucked up, you're going to be paying for it.

As for trust in women, hire women who are capable and competent in their jobs, don't hire any others. Same as you would with the men.

To avoid the rifts DEI will always cause, you ignore DEI.

ARMISTICErj · 2025-01-28T23:20:36+00:00

My personal experience with women in the work place lines up with your stats. I've worked with a couple women that worked harder and are more consistently than most of the employees and they flat out make it known that they would rather work with men because they are more dependable, with less drama.

Merit based hiring is the logical answer. I work at a food and agriculture company. To sum it up, all the corporate positions except mine, the maintenance, and safety department are held by women. HR departments need a severe overhaul of requirements in my experience. Our current HR department is all women and hold severe bias for other females, allowing them to outright lie without an investigation. The HR manager also has no actual degree or experience in the field. She worked as the equivalent of a store clerk in all of her previous positions.

DelaraPorter · 2025-01-28T23:54:57+00:00

I’m curious have ethnic equality lead similar results

Uniqueiamjustjules · 2025-01-29T15:16:32+00:00

Engineers aren't created overnight. It takes a ton of discipline and training to be effective and productive.

My mother was an engineer for 30+ years and the only woman in her graduating class. Other women were on campus, but they weren't interested in that program because of its rigor. You can create incentives, but you can't make someone choose it or perform to the required standards.

KobeBean · 2025-01-28T18:48:34+00:00

Also in tech, hiring isn’t really an issue at the firms I’ve worked, but there is a lot of resistance to putting a low performer who is a woman on a PIP vs a man. There’s a lot of questioning you and your peer management team (who is responsible for evaluating performance) get that you simply do not get from doing it to a male employee.

LettuceBeGrateful · 2025-01-28T17:53:36+00:00

Avoiding female candidates based on gender because they might be less efficient is terrible policy. HR was right to call that one out as sexism. No one should be unwilling to hire someone due to their gender.

What the tech leads should have done if they were truly interested in meritocracy, is evaluate all candidates' resumes, and interview and evaluate accordingly. Then you can go back to HR with the data if they object. "This candidate didn't have any relevant skills so they weren't interviewed, and we interviewed the other one but they bombed the interview." That sort of thing.

The culture in your company sounded like an arms race of sexism tbh. Even though they reverted the way they hire, it sounds like there's a lot of shit to root out on both sides.

Is it possible to hire equal amount of women and men in a male dominated field without compromising quality, and if so, how?

It's possible, assuming there's an equal number of qualified men and women.

How do you mend the trust in men ... and women?

You don't, you ensure that the policies are enforced equally, and remove anyone discriminating based on gender. For this sort of thing, an apology on its own is useless, and both men and women have a right to be furious. Both men and women should have their guard up to future abuses of power. (Also, while most people don't like lawsuits, some legal action would've been nice here.)

What's your opinion on DEI mandates and how should we handle them?

It's pure garbage. Tangential to men's issues, but there were multiple documented cases of Jewish students being turned away from college DEI offices because they were too "privileged" to need support dealing with harrassment.

DEI was obviously bigotry before all that, but if it wasn't obvious then, it is now.

How do you handle the huge rift DEI mandates cause to gender relations in the company where there were previously none?

This is the million dollar question, because it speaks to the larger (and growing) cultural rift between men and women.

eli_ashe · 2025-01-28T21:56:02+00:00

there is no such thing as meritocracy without means to control against nepotisms, corruption, racism, and sexism.

this has long been well understood. DEI provides those kinds of checks. folks against DEI are just shooting themselves in the head.

you think the boss is going to what? pick you and not his or her son, daughter, favorite, etc....?

That is entirely the way it was in the before times, businesses were simply corrupt organizations that gave promotions, jobs, benefits, and boons to their friends, and all the inverse to their enemies.

its remarkable to me that the anti-DEI crowd doesnt understand this.

elebrin · 2025-01-28T18:51:15+00:00

Diversity can be a very good thing: there are case studies with things like early digital cameras not really able to capture dark skin well and microphones in the early days of radio that made women sound terrible. There are industries where you need people able to speak multiple languages and read in multiple languages.

I think the real trick is to examine your customer base, as well as your desired customer base. Who is using your product? It's useful to have some people at your organization who are members of the community you are trying to sell to. This goes for Government programs, as well. SNAP should have some people involved who have had to be on SNAP. Section 8 housing committees should have community members who live in that housing.

I think also that some DEI initiatives, such as in-company networking groups, can serve a very positive purpose. My wife is a member of a women's group and they have provided some really good career advice for her (advice I'd given her too, but like so many things advice needs to come from the right person at the right time to be heard).

Unfortunately, the evil side is when quotas and affirmative action take over.

Title	DEI mandates backfired disastrously
Author	BoredDevBO
Upvotes	315
Comments	77
Date	January 28, 2025 4:27 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1ic5gfp/dei_mandates_backfired_disastrously/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/dei-mandates-backfired-disastrously.1542391 https://theredarchive.com/post/1542391

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