Feminist logic:

parahacker · 2022-09-01T10:22:34+00:00

Do you live in the U.S.?

Do you live on the east coast?

Do you want to really mindfuck the next feminist to make this argument with you?

Let them know that around 500 years ago, where you live was inhabited mostly by a matriarchal slaveholding society - the Iroquois Nations, to be clear - who treated most men, including the tribal chiefs, essentially as property and trading cards between the women in their families. It was 'sort of' egalitarian, in that community decisions determined policy, and they had a form of voting in place, but in practice the only voices that mattered were the female heads of household.

And the moment Iroquois men got the chance, they 'immigrated' into European colonies in droves. It's a large part of why the Iroquois Nations, arguably the most powerful native government in the new world, fell apart - they treated their men so badly that they couldn't keep them at home when an alternative presented itself.

Ironically, we modeled much of our Constitution off of how the Iroquois functioned - but originally the Founding Fathers seemed awfully averse to giving women any say in it. Which makes much more sense if you realize they had a matriarchal, warlike, society that was at times excessively cruel to male captives, right next door to their new country...

So therefore that feminist you're talking to must be an abusive misandrist piece of shit that shouldn't be trusted with a paper bag, because history proves women in power are abusive shitbags.

See how feminists enjoy having that particular table turned on them.

DavidByron2 · 2022-09-01T14:00:19+00:00

Wtf is this logic

Bigot logic. It's the logic all hate movements use. For example "Jews killed the Christ" because 2000 years ago (according to some book) a few Jews killed Jesus. That means all Jews today killed him so they are all evil and guilty. What one does (or is alleged to have done) all deserve to be punished for. This is why feminists spend so much time making up lies about women in foreign countries and rewriting the past to suggest men were all evil assholes who abused women in every place you don't really know much about. It creates the "fact" of men being inherently evil and ideas about "Oh the pendulum is just swinging women's way for a while" to justify their hate.

how am I supposed to be accountable for something that happened centuries ago JUST BECAUSE IM THE SAME GENDER?

It's called collective guilt or group punishment. It's outlawed by the Geneva Conventions if the target group are prisoners of war. I mention this because hate movements essentially consider themselves at war with their hated group (relevant: feminists declared war on all men in 1848, the "Declaration of Sentiments" look it up).

You should point out to feminists their "logic" shows they are bigots and hate mongers at every chance.

eg.

500 years ago, men discriminated against women

You: are you here to apologize to me for all the bad things your great-great-grandfather did to my great great grandmother then?

mikesteane · 2022-09-01T09:25:08+00:00

Something that ALLEGEDLY happened.

pearl_harbour1941 · 2022-09-01T12:25:12+00:00

If you put the words "I feel like....." in front of any statement a feminist makes, they actually become easier to understand:

"I feel like....we can't walk out at night"

"I feel like....women are expected to do everything"

Then the go and make up some academic study that proves that this happens. It's called emotional reasoning, and it's commonly found in mentally ill people.

ThrowAway640KB · 2022-09-01T11:56:06+00:00

Always find the argument fascinating that women can't go out at night and men can just magically go out at night with almost zero risk of anything bad happening even though bad shit happens to men who go out all the time at night. Everyone should carry weapons with them regardless of gender if they're anywhere outside at night.

r7anubis · 2022-09-01T11:49:29+00:00

500 years ago, men discriminated against women. You are a man too, so you must be a misogynist!

Random man : 500 years ago, women didn't shave their pubic hair. You're a woman too, so you must be hairy as fuck.

beleidigtewurst · 2022-09-01T13:33:13+00:00

I'll give you even more interesting highlights about "500 years ago":

Majority of the population were servants
Serfdom (a form of slavery) was more of a norm
Both male and female peasants had to work their assess off
Kids had to work too
Education? What education?
Chronic hungers and regular famines, shitty lives
Elections? What elections?

And, of course, men were slaughtered en mass in countless wars (a number of which was fought by countries with female rulers)

Fucking Kindergartens were invented 200 years ago, because, you know, women HAD TO work.

And when industrial revolution hit, we got to these wonders.

Oh, many kids HAD TO work too. And you know what was considered progress back then? FORBIDDING that.

So, yeah, what is that in short: BITCHING. They were dubbed "grievance studies" for a reason. (by the way, search for "grievance studies affair")

SteveorJimmyorJack · 2022-09-01T14:25:10+00:00

500 years ago men were abused by women. 500 years ago women with debts used to seek rich men to marry. By marriedge the husband gets to pay the woman debts. Even after paying them, he still could go to prison. After marriege, the wife could divorce, and the husband still inherit her debts and go to prison if he didn´t pay. If the wife steals, the husband would go to prison. And, of course: there were false accusations forcing a man to marry a woman and accepting a child that wasn´t his.

In ancient books there are cases, like in D. Quixote about false rape acusations. Is nothing new. D. Quixote was released in 1605. The false rape accusation is still today a common practice.

Men always sacrificed themselves for women!!! And Amber Turd like women today thank us properly for that! Feminism is the answer for our all time sacrifices.

veedub447 · 2022-09-01T12:40:02+00:00

500 years ago women were, as they are now, the protected and privileged members of society and men still went out and worked their asses off to provide for them and their children, and often sacrificed their lives to do so.

WhereProgressIsMade · 2022-09-01T15:22:40+00:00

Unfortunately, society has enabled women to let their feelings trump logic or any sense of morality. We've trained a generation of women with things like "Let it Go' from Frozen to prioritize their own feelings over logic or rules. (A line from the song is "No right, no wrong, no rules for me" and the rest of the song is pretty much about her listening to her feelings now to make decisions going forward and not giving a shit how it affects anyone else.)

ASSperationalHorizon · 2022-09-01T16:02:58+00:00

Along these lines - why should I have to pay reparations for a previous generation's actions? My ancestors came over on a boat and were discriminated against too.

GltyUntlPrvnInncnt · 2022-09-01T16:47:02+00:00

So, let me get this straight. Women of today, never oppressed, want revenge on men of today, that never oppressed anyone? Excellent logic there, feminists.

NewAgeReborn · 2022-09-01T10:01:35+00:00

Do you think feminists get off on how much time men spend complaining about feminism?

I bet they read this sub and just laugh and laugh about how triggered everyone is. We should stop giving them the satisfaction.

SuaveFuck · 2022-09-01T15:13:34+00:00

i am german. i have never ever met ANY real cliché black clothes, black curls and beard jew. i can not say anything about jewish people, i am aware and critical of the israel palestine conflict, i can positively say i have ab so lute ly NO nazi in my family as in, someone actively involved in the poland blitzkrieg, those atrocious crimes against mankind committed there by the einsatzgruppen, afaik my grandpa on the paternal side sacrificed his life as a young private for führer, volk and vaterland. still: i dont know any jewish person and i wish every person of jewish faith a regular, happy, healthy life.

BUT STILL I AM CONSTANTLY REMINDED THAT I MUST BE SOMEWHAT RESPONSIBLE FOR 6 YEARS OF HORROR AND MADNESS AND INDUSTRIAL MASS MURDER.

so i think im OK with being misogynistic because 500 years ago womens rights were not the same standard as they are today.

oh, by the way. were black and gay rights the same? were disabled people taken care of as good as today, how was social welfare for ANYONE back then? but thats all pishposh in comparison to the GREAT horrors that women had to undergo.

next up: 95 % of all holocaust victims were women (because it is so because we say so). and eva braun was the only one who harshly critically dared to speak up against all this with hitler and the nazi atrocities only were able to happen BECAUSE THEY WERE ALL TOXIC WHITE MEN.

alberta einstein, such a strrrronk beautiful brave black transwoman.believe it or not, the rainbow feminazi clowns are truly really actively rewriting history to their liking on wikipedia and in public schools by now.

dw87190 · 2022-09-01T11:15:11+00:00

Based

PactScharp · 2022-09-01T17:12:24+00:00

To be honest, every year I believe less & less in the (most popular) feminist claim that all of history was the story of the oppression of women by men seeking to dominate everything.

More and more, I begin to believe that gender relations actually haven't changed all that much & that women were basically as powerful (socially) and "whiny" as they are today.

You cannot convince me that women were genuinely oppressed & beaten down by oppressive men their entire lives, when they were allowed & in fact even encouraged to write the most hateful, radical garbage about them (Declaration of Sentiments for example).

I'm not saying that history wasn't unfair towards women, it definitely was. I'm saying I don't really buy that it was the consequence of "men", rather than the consequence of nature itself & how cruel the human existence was for THOUSANDS of years. Yes gender roles existed & we all agree that they are wrong, in principle... but I don't buy for a second that this was all some grand, global conspiracy by men to "control" women. Rather, life was incredibly hard. Survival was key. Everyone was oppressed by existence itself. And men & women therefore divided their tasks & responsabilities in ways that they thought was most efficient.

We're at the point where feminists genuinely expect everyone else to believe that women being "expected" to care for children (historically) is the result of "patriarchy". Let's just ignore the fact that WOMEN LITERALLY BIRTH CHILDREN. Wtf do these feminists believe women have breasts for? Just for fun? If it's all a matter of "culture" and "social constructs", then how come that EVERY SINGLE OTHER ANIMAL on the planet has the same structure, where the female takes on the exclusive and/or primary burden of raising the off-spring? So all the animals are oppressed by the patriarchy too?

And what do these feminists think men have bigger muscles for? Faster wanking? For that matter, what is the purpose of beards, body hair & lower voices? They genuinely want everyone to think that these evolutionairy disparities are entirely accidental in nature & had nothing to do with gender expectations or gender predispositions. Extra body hair helped with exploring the wild, making it easier to hunt & face difficult (cold) conditions. Lower voices helped with establishing authority & danger over other animals (including humans).

But nope, it's all just "PPP-PATRIARCHY".

I call bullshit on ALL of it.

Isn't it just incredible how women were more than happy - for all of history - to accept these gender roles (because let's be honest, men were always the ones who faced the most risk & did the hardest work), up until the 20th century, when people (men) made all sorts of technological strives (industrial revolution, hygiene, medicine, etc.) & SUDDENLY women all decided they were "oppressed" this entire time.

It's ONLY when society progressed to such an extent where "gender roles" weren't really necesarry anymore (making it possible, for the first time in human history, for women to compete as equals to men in the workplace), that women en masse complained about "sexism".

It's not really surprising, because only 120 years ago, people were more worried about actually living past 30 (the AVERAGE life expectency at the time. Just let that sink in), surviving & hoping their kids wouldn't die past the age of 5. "Gender equality" was not a serious concern back then, because of course it wasn't.

This whole "gender war" nonsense... it's actually proof of how great we have it in the developed world.

Sure, there are still genuine issues, even ones that mainly women face... but this whole "revenge" theory about how "men" deserve it because of "centuries" of "oppression"? Nah... that's insane, man-hating garbage that isn't whatsoever based in reality.

Platinum247365 · 2022-09-01T17:26:16+00:00

All I would do honestly is ask them "what is a woman" and "how many genders are we talking about here"

blackdahlialady · 2022-09-01T22:00:33+00:00

That cooking and cleaning thing, basically. I've seen far too many women like this. I was neighbors with a young couple who had a two year old daughter. I understand that you have to watch a 2-year-old closely but at the same time, their kids, they're going to get hurt.

This is something I had to learn which caused me a lot of anxiety as a new mom. It was probably just the new mom Instinct kicking in but I was super scared of my son getting hurt. Now that he's gotten older, I've gotten used to him getting little bumps and scrapes because he's not afraid of anything lol. Anyway, you give them a safe activity to do and you keep them within your eyesight and you get the fuck to work. That's what I did.

When my son was younger, I would put him in the high chair and give him a snack and do the dishes while he was beside me and I could see him. Same thing with other stuff. Unless it was dangerous to him, I would let him be next to me while I did it.

Anyway, my neighbor would come home after a long day at work and complain that nothing was done around the house and that he had to clean the kitchen in order to cook his own dinner. I looked at him and I was like honey, why are you still married to this woman? I see you going to work everyday busting your ass to bring home money and she can't even be bothered to cook you dinner? The fuck?

I was like, there are plenty of women out there who would be happy to do that. Me, I was raised traditionally where if a man works, the house better be clean and there better be a hot dinner on the table. Some women don't realize how good they have it.

blackdahlialady · 2022-09-01T22:02:49+00:00

I know I already commented but I posted a few minutes ago about how I want to write a paper on men's issues and hopefully take this all the way to congress. I know it's a long uphill battle and a shot in the dark but I think it's worth it. Anyway, would you mind if I used that in my paper? I'll give your username credit. I want to use the thing about the Minecraft reporting system. If not, it's okay. I just thought it would be an interesting tidbit in the paper.

5tar_k1ll3r · 2022-09-01T12:10:56+00:00

Yeah a lot of these arguments are so stupid. Just because one of my ancestors did a crime, doesn't mean I should repent for it. It's like if a murderer lives their entire life without consequence, then when they're caught, they die, and people prosecute and punish the murderer's children. It's unfair and unjust practice.

But to be fair, a lot of this stuff is significant in Eastern and Developing countries.

KickedSharf798 · 2022-09-01T15:11:38+00:00

We can't walk out at night

Im a boy and i also don't Go sleep why do you need to walk at night

Civil-Length5208 · 2022-09-01T18:47:01+00:00

I will start by saying that I am a woman, consider myself a feminist and just found this subreddit. I agree that we should be mindful of inequalities in all genders and that men have unique issues that are largely ignored by society. BUT that does not mean that women do not face issues that are unique to them (women’s healthcare being one) and issues that effect them more proportionately.

Going to probably get a lot of downvotes for this, but here is my take on what you posted:

because woman have been historically oppressed (right to vote, own land etc) does not mean all men are misogynist for sure. There are men AND WOMEN that still hold misogynistic beliefs. Not saying OP does, but there are a lot of people out there that likely do. It is important to remember the shady parts of our history though so we can continue to evolve and not let history repeat itself. I believe this is for all groups though (race, ethnicity, gender, sexuality, social class etc.)
I as a woman am afraid to walk out at night, or in certain areas. Not saying men shouldn’t be. I am not male so do not pretend to know how men feel in these situations, but anecdotally my male friends/family etc seem to be less nervous about those situations.

Male sexual assault/rape is generally underreported so won’t go into which gender experiences that more but I will say that as a woman I have been catcalled, had strangers say vulgar things to me etc. starting at around 11 years old and it can be very intimidating when you don’t know the intentions of the person doing that. Not saying all men act like this, but I have had it happen to me very young, and very frequently. I have also had random strange men grab me or touch me at bars/parties etc.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/02/21/587671849/a-new-survey-finds-eighty-percent-of-women-have-experienced-sexual-harassment This shows that 81% of women have experienced sexual harassment. Not a male, don’t know if that happens to men as frequently or if they also feel intimidated/scared because of it. Just pointing out that the fear you speak of is a real fear for most if not all women.

This issue isn’t your “problem” but it’s something that everyone should be aware of. Also if a woman is sexually assaulted or raped EVERY decision she made leading up to that will be scrutinized “what were you wearing, why were you alone, did you lead him on etc.”

The division of household labor by gender is still inequitable in a lot of American households:

https://www.newamerica.org/better-life-lab/better-life-lab-experiments/bllx-blogs/gender-and-household-labor/

In households where both spouses are working, women handle more of running the household than men. Not in every household sure. When women are the stay at home parent they obviously will be contributing more to parenting/household chores but they also deserve a break/help as needed. If a spouse (of either gender) is “sitting on their ass all day” that is BS.

I agree that female on male domestic violence is not taken seriously, underreported, and has had little research done by professionals. No person, regardless of gender, should be hitting another person unless it’s self defense. If they do, that is abusive period. Some research shows that men might be more likely to experience intimate partner abuse than women, but research is mixed on this because not enough research has been done.

I will point out that in general men are stronger than women: https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/brzycki/files/mb-2002-01.pdf

Since men are likely to be stronger than women, men are likely to have a physical advantage in a fight. My personal opinion and what I teach my son is don’t hit women, you have an unfair advantage. If a woman hits/attacks you walk away, as the LAST resort of course defend yourself. I don’t think anyone should just sit there and take abuse. But if the man in this situation has the physical advantage he should attempt shoving female abuser away and getting away before beating the crap out of someone.

SOME men do hit and abuse women (and vice versa). SOME men do view women as merely sexual objects and maids to meet their desires. It is unfair to say all men do, but we should acknowledge that there are a subgroup of men that do not treat women as human beings worthy of respect.

As a survivor of intimate partner violence and sexual violence, it can skew your view towards men. I logically know that a the men that do those things are in the minority. That being said I still would not be comfortable being around strange men in an unfamiliar situation because it is impossible to tell which ones are going to be misogynistic/abusive. I also worry about what my daughter might experience as she gets older for similar reasons.

Not trying to start a debate, just offering a different perspective.

Prestigious_While_64 · 2022-09-01T14:19:48+00:00

Pleas dont make straw man arguments as it makes the community look bad. Put in links and be polite. Dont give anyone reasonable ways of criticism.

sumfacilispuella · 2022-09-01T16:03:49+00:00

i will say that i must live in a completely different demographic than most of the men who post here, complaining about women not working and then spending all their money. am i the only one who most of the couples i know, the woman makes more and the man is often not even working at all, just on the PS5 all day? what world are you guys living in where women are just lounging around doing nothing? bc in mine they work as much if not more than their husbands and then do a solid 70% of childcare and housework at a bare minimum.

Apprehensive-Gap-106 · 2022-09-01T18:24:29+00:00

Women aren’t paranoid, we are rightfully scared as we all know someone who had been attacked day and night.

Women don’t actually blame all men, but we want men who aren’t attackers to help us, not further blame us.

bakalabalak · 2022-09-01T18:57:23+00:00

Centuries?

SvitlanaLeo · 2022-09-01T14:11:30+00:00

This post really sounds misogynous. She's not too paranoid. But she's wrong - women haven't it harder, the men are overrepresented as victims of male violence. Because many men are misadnrous people who think it's okay to hit a man and it's not okay to hit a woman.

LiquidDreamtime · 2022-09-01T15:35:25+00:00

You’re creating a bunch of straw man arguments or willfully misunderstanding the position many women have on these topics.

What you’ve is so stupid and so wrong on all accounts, I’m concerned that you’re trolling to make Men’s Rights look ignorant. Unfortunately I think you may be honest in your ignorance, which is actually worse.

Men’s rights will never progress or be anything other than a laughing stock until people like you make the smallest attempt to educate yourself on gender roles, the patriarchy, and how our society operates.

Every quote you’ve included is incorrect. Every conclusion you’ve made is incorrect.

NewAgeReborn · 2022-09-01T09:11:34+00:00

I frequently go to AskFeminists and R/Feminism and feminists aren't saying shit like this. Is there like a debate sub where everyone argues with feminists and they say all this crazy stuff or is this just what everyone imagines feminists are saying?

FarJaguar7361 · 2022-09-01T20:08:13+00:00

I feel like you are creating sort of a straw man argument with this post. You are intentionally making the female perspective look illogical and crazy so that it’s easier to discredit. If you had a strong argument you would look into what these women are saying, try and understand their points, then go from there. I feel like this is a very emotionally charged post that doesn’t contribute much to the conversation.

Cotticker · 2022-09-01T17:19:55+00:00

Yikes... are you 14 or something

KickedSharf798 · 2022-09-01T15:12:49+00:00

I loved the minecraft chat report reference

2022-09-01T17:05:03+00:00

500 years ago? You’re timeline is way off. Women got the right to vote about 100 years ago. A husband could legally rape his wife in Texas until 1994.

You’re not assumed to be misogynistic because of discriminatory laws. That isn’t feminist logic.

There’s a lot of bad arguments here. Women are smaller and weaker, being scared to walk alone at night isn’t paranoia, it’s reasonable.

Most feminists would agree that a woman hitting a man is also domestic violence. Abuse can go both ways. It’s not a feminists belief that it can only go one way. I’m sure some women believe this, some women who call themselves feminists probably even believe it, but it’s not inherently a feminists belief and I don’t think it’s a popular belief among women (in my experience) in general.

This post isn’t about men’s rights. There’s too much hate here. It’s toxic.

MotorCityTrucker · 2022-09-01T21:25:59+00:00

What’s funny is when they cite Catholicism as proof of the patriarchy. As a Catholic, I can vouch that Church teaching isn’t determined by theologians or popes. The real determiner of what constitutes a sin is an annoyed grandmother.

Professional_Bar3689 · 2022-09-01T22:08:35+00:00

“Wtf is this logic”

We’re talking about women here my guy. Logic does not exist to them. Just accept it as truth and you won’t spend wasted time trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

abc123xyz0 · 2022-09-02T00:47:19+00:00

my interpretation of this nonsense:

"as a female

I demand a renegotiation of gender contracts built over thousands of years

In the renegotiation

females get all of the privileges

males get all of the responsibilities

only a "gender bigot female hating pig man" would disagree with this renegotiation

sooooooooooooooo: do you accept this renegotiated deal men?"

as men we always can say "NO DEAL!" and walk away

mechajutaro · 2022-09-02T03:05:40+00:00

500 years ago, men discriminated against women. You are a man too, so you must be a misogynist!”
Wtf is this logic how am I supposed to be accountable for something that happened centuries ago JUST BECAUSE IM THE SAME GENDER?

Same reason modern day Turks are still responsible for the atrocities committed during The Armenian Revolt, Jews living in '22 are still responsible for the fact that some within their tribe took part in the slave trade back in The 1600s, and ten year old Russians who are running around in the streets of Moscow right now are responsible for the rapine and wanton slaughter committed by The Red Army during The Soviet Invasion of Germany during WWII

It's all too easy to start invoking past events which can't be changed, rather than discussing the messy and often complicated work of doing good for those who are in need today

nevermock · 2022-09-02T05:58:03+00:00

It's a western tradition to hate men.

buppyu · 2022-09-02T10:41:05+00:00

Don't expect them to be reasonable.

Radiant-Tackle5274 · 2022-09-26T06:32:40+00:00

Idk man. Every argument can be oversimplified and made stupid if you put it like that.

“I’ve been kind, considerate, and nice! Therefore I carry no similarities to other men in my society! Despite being with those men!”

All I’m saying is, I get it. Women can seem complicated, remote, almost alien. I was something of a loser and completely crazy over this girl. Totally couldn’t understand why she was a feminist (I mean, guys would worship her)

She told me one day very simply.

“It’s not that I hate all men. Sexism is what I hate. I hate what it does to my relationships, to my friends, I hate how bitter it’s making you.”

Seriously, my mind cleared.

I was so angry and so confused as to why no one wanted me. All these hot women were dating terrible men in my eyes, and where was I?

The truth of the matter is, women are not a monolith. They’re social, but I guarantee you, it’s ridiculously hard for a lot of women to socialize. Most females I know do agree on a lot of common things, because they’re common experiences in their eyes.

So yeah, their logic is dictated by life experiences.

But I promise you, being bitter is not going to get you anywhere. My advice to any man reading this would be: take a breath. Women don’t hate you. Put on a clean shirt, be polite, and talk about something you both like.

(Marvel is easy to talk about but don’t fixate on criticism)

Title	Feminist logic:
Author	Logical_Welcome_9280
Upvotes	256
Comments	167
Date	September 1, 2022 8:04 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/x31seq/feminist_logic/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/feminist-logic.1130506 https://theredarchive.com/post/1130506

Comments

Fucking Kindergartens were invented 200 years ago, because, you know, women HAD TO work.