Communication often defeats the purpose

EulenWatcher · 2024-09-13T20:56:47+00:00

You have to choose whether you want your partner spontaneously start fulfilling your needs that are currently somewhat neglected or you want to figure things out and see whether a) you two can talk and make it happen or b) there's a greater incompatibility between you that you cannot patch up.

If your partner doesn't fulfill your needs 100% all the time and exactly in a way you want them, it doesn't mean that they aren't into you, don't love you or don't care about you. People have different needs, different ways to communicate their love and different ideas about relationships, sex, care etc. We grow up with different kind of examples in front of us as well.

If I want my husband to go on a date to a new place with me, I can ask him or I can just sit there waiting for him to magically know that I want to try this new places, although, I know perfectly well that he's content with our usual itinerary. I'm gonna ask him, we'll have a good time and I'll feel good about it, because even though we have different levels of "wanna see a cool new place", we still had a great time and I know that he cares about my needs and wants.

OkProfessional9405 · 2024-09-13T23:23:04+00:00

The truth is communication often doesn't solve important conflicts. It's a good place to start and it can solve trivial conflicts.

But for larger conflicts the reality of compromising and possibly feeling like what you loved about a situation is being undermined means that communicating becomes the conflict and usually the solution is to agree tp work on it, which really means, I'm going to pretend we haven't had this conversation, more or less keep doing what I'm doing with maybe minor changes, and hope it's good enough.

This is why couples have the same arguments over and over again, because talking doesn't actually resolve real conflict.

And yes, most reddit people are unsuccessful enough in real world interactions that they don't realize this.

AntonioSLodico · 2024-09-13T23:09:09+00:00

A lot of times, people have an overly simplistic view of communication, and think they are better at it than they are.

If you say "I want more sex" but behind that is a core need to feel desired, your partner might have more sex with you in a way that leaves you feeling less desired. If you tell your partner that you want to feel desired, and their response isn't to try and figure out what that looks like and how they can do that, that's a form of communication as well. So is tone, body language, and more.

Most people are way worse at communicating than they believe they are. Especially when they have to communicate difficult things with people who have different communication styles.

Redpill-mind · 2024-09-13T21:07:56+00:00

Communication is means nothing if it's backed by actions which is why marriage counseling is often suggested by women since they just wanna talk,talk,talk without any taking action

mobjack · 2024-09-13T21:06:36+00:00

A lot of times women desire sex but are reluctant to initiate it. They could be afraid of rejection or think that it is usually the man's role to initiate.

Maybe the woman didn't realize that her lack of initiating was making the man feel less desired. This is the type of scenario that communication helps resolve. Things are usually more complex than what is on the surface level.

And the act of communication itself usually results in more emotional intimacy which often leads to more physical intimacy.

Flightlessbirbz · 2024-09-14T01:44:16+00:00

I partially agree and partially disagree. To some extent, “if they wanted to, they would.” But on the other hand, sometimes it’s not that they don’t want to, but that they don’t realize how important something is to you because they have a different frame of reference. For example, maybe she believes that men want to be the ones to initiate sex, or he grew up in a family that didn’t say “I love you” much. Or, maybe she just isn’t horny and he doesn’t really love her. It can easily be either.

So my solution to this is that you should communicate your desire once or twice, and see how they respond. Don’t expect them to read your mind, but don’t beg for something they clearly don’t want to give.

Nobody will magically fulfill all of your needs without communication. Communication is essential. However, if you have “communicated” a million times and nothing is changing, it will not change anything to communicate a million and one times. That is an indirect “no” that you either have to accept or leave.

caption291 · 2024-09-14T04:49:43+00:00

By not communicating, the person at least allows the opportunity for it to occur naturally and be confident that it represents what they want it to.

Why would you be more confident that it represents what you wanted it to?

There's a strong possibily(arguably an even higher one) that they are still not doing it naturally, the main difference being that they are guessing on what you want instead of being told.

I think that you simply value plausible deniability quite a bit and honest communication gets in the way of whatever you were using that plausible deniability for.

DankuTwo · 2024-09-14T08:02:02+00:00

Couldn’t agree more. People (usually women) say they want more communication, but they have not really thought things through. Implicit communication is happening all the time. Demanding that things always be made explicit fundamentally changes human behaviour, often in deleterious ways.

I dated a “high communicator” and she basically ruined everything by constantly talking and openly pointing out every situation, every intention, etc. It kills all interest and mystery.

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EugeneCezanne · 2024-09-13T22:01:02+00:00

This is true and, I suspect, well-known to anyone who has been in a serious relationship. However, it is worth considering that there may be more effective means of communication that could mitigate the problem.

Imagine if instead of saying "I want you to initiate sex more," you put it more like this:

"I want to better enjoy the feeling of being sexually desired. I think, through no one's fault, you and I have settled into a pattern where I initiate sex most of the time. But I also believe you do desire me. If, and only if, that's true, then you should initiate sex more. It might be a little awkward at first—and I might seem a little skeptical, now that I've told you—but as long as we trust and desire each other, we'll get past that part and onto the fun stuff!"

The difference here is that you're not just asking for a behavior. You're helping your partner express themselves. Of course, this requires you to actually trust them—if you don't, you have a bigger problem.

Vickenviking · 2024-09-16T12:45:42+00:00

But there really isn't a way around it. Lets take just initiating sex. Just for fun lets have a poly couple with persons A, B and C. A wants sex with B and C every day. B wants it once per week. C wants it once per month.

C is going to feel annoyed and pressured by A and B. A think B and C are prudes who is not much into A. B. agrees with C that A is a bit too much. And B agrees with A that C really doesn't seem that into it.

Now add some other things like how often cleaning needs to be done, how often to go on dates etc.

Maybe C gets stressed out by the place being a mess (and feels more like sex that once per month time everyone got together and cleaned).

Just because there are so many perfectly reasonable configurations of several parameters, A, B and C are all going to feel the others are not "validating them" being too lazy or too much in some aspect.

Now if these people would start talking to each other they would at least understsnd each other better.

The other alternative is more acceptance that people are different.

Pristine-Mango1130 · 2024-09-13T21:04:00+00:00

You’re doing that thing men do, particularly engineers and number crunchers, where they conflate direct verbal communication with communication in general. Direct verbal communication works very well at eliminating questions or uncertainty. Women hate it because they crave drama, chaos, thrills, and nonverbal courtship rituals. These rituals work to the advantage of women, because they provide plenty of opportunities for plausible deniability should a man put a foot in his mouth. That plausible deniability helps women preserve their reputations against accusations of pursuing low status men, or being a slut in general.

Men hate nonverbal communication, but tolerate it because it’s the only way women will “talk” to them. Men cherish honest and integrity. Women do not. Nothing despises a woman quite like a man that is honest about what he wants.

This extends to communication surrounding values dissonance in a relationship. One of the women I dated hated the idea of explaining to me what was bothering her, because she believed the man who loved her should be able to infer it without words. Again, women hate direct verbal communication.

As a man, you have to develop keen instincts and pay Sherlock Holmes level attention to her body language and face when you talk to her. This is what she wants. To be analyzed and picked apart, like a cadaver in a morgue.

Communication only works once you’ve figured out what’s bothering her through your own investigative skills.

Siukslinis_acc · 2024-09-14T11:52:12+00:00

A commom example of this is someone wanting their partner to initiate sex more. The person is usually not necessarily wanting more sex, but wanting to feel more sexually desired by their partner.

And the person might be blind to the way their partner is showing that they find one sexy. One might not see the way their partner is looking at them, the touches they do, the way their body is reacting to one's presence.

Communication allows the other person to know how to communicate in a way that the other person will understand. It teaches them to speak the love language of the other as the other doesn't understand their love language and thus feels like they are not loved even though the partner is expressing their love, though in ways that the other person is not perceptive of.

Like, one might not feel that another person cares about them, because they aren't calling every day. But the other person shows care because in their everyday life they are on the lookout of the object the one was searching for. Like one is looking for a specific type of dress and the other person while doing clothing shopping, checks out if the shop they are visiting has the dress the other is looking for.

Also your example is a bit weird. If a person is initiating sex more, the partner feels sexy, but they might not want to have sex so often and thus they reject the initiation, then their partner reduces the initiations as they don't see the point in initiating as often if it is often rejected.

balhaegu · 2024-09-15T12:50:02+00:00

But what if the reason the partner was not initiating sex more often was NOT because he wasn't into you, but a misunderstanding that YOURE not into it, and don't desire them back?

Then a higher quality communication would be saying something lke "Im just letting you know, I still find you totally hot, and down to smash whenever, you know? Just say the word"

TopShelfSnipes · 2024-09-16T20:45:44+00:00

This is more about how you communicate.

If you don't say what you mean, you can't be surprised when you don't get what you want.

If you want to feel sexually desired, you need to express that, and leave a relationship where you're not seen that way. Asking your partner to sleep with you more isn't going to fix that if it feels like a chor or they're only doing it because you asked.

A lot of people talk in circles and don't know how to actually reach a conclusion and/or stay on point when talking to their partners. It takes work, but if you get it, it's amazing. If you don't, it's a fucking shitshow.

Windmill_flowers · 2024-09-13T22:28:28+00:00

"Noooo! Don't do it because I ASKED you to do it... Do it because you intrinsically wanted to do it!"

Is that what we're getting at here?

attendquoi · 2024-09-14T01:20:02+00:00

Why be with this person then? I wouldn't be willing to just wait and hope he figures it out for himself.

Title	Communication often defeats the purpose
Author	Melodic_Eye8341
Upvotes	10
Comments	67
Date	September 13, 2024 7:40 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1fg3j39/communication_often_defeats_the_purpose/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/communication-often-defeats-the-purpose.1530268 https://theredarchive.com/post/1530268

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