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The_Meep_Lord · 2022-01-10T12:12:33+00:00

And what does the average man get for all of this effort?

To get someone at the level he was before he started improving himself. And at that point, she is no longer worthy of him.

Why should we change everything about ourselves to have the privilege of accepting someone for who they are?

To satiate women’s lust and be used by her until she gets bored and leaves for someone else? A woman who wanted to use you, your wants and needs are not even considered.

If a woman can love a man, she will one him for who he is. Changing who you are for something as frivolous as women’s lust is sad.

How about instead of wasting our time appeasing others got the sake of external validation, we just live for ourselves just like women do?

Just for a shitty drug that will leave all men disappointed and wishing they did something else instead in a few decades.

And I am ignoring the problems. Only top 20% can be in the top 20%. All men working harder will do is increase how much work they must do to get less then yesterday.

It is why simping is a thing now (end path of being the best beta) and why women are so unbearable to be around.

Spoiling women will just leave men disappointed and empty.

Pnakotico31 · 2022-01-10T14:59:45+00:00

Women made eye contact with you and you think you’re top 20%?

herm-dawg · 2022-01-10T12:09:01+00:00

This just isn't true as a general principle and it goes to the heart of why so many men get pissed off when they hear this. I'll just link to the post where I've already addressed this mentality.

Just imagine a man, let's say around 25. He feels like he's doing alright in life for the most part. He's a working professional, no supermodel but not bad looking, doesn't go out and party but has a few close friends. But he's never been able to get a girl to give him the time of day. All of his friends and coworkers have girlfriends, some are married, and some might even have kids. And he thinks to himself, "Hmm, I did all the stuff society said I was supposed to do. I went to college, got a good job, got friends, got hobbies, exercised, put myself out there, but ladies still won't talk to me. What's up with that?" The self-perception that they've done the "right things" is often false, but not always. This is another thing that I think people overlook. If we believe in allowing people to date or not date whoever they want (I personally don't), then that means you can do everything "right" and still lose.

Lack of success doesn't prove lack of effort.

People don't live in a just world. Your ability to get a girlfriend has nothing to do with your moral character, and women aren't avoiding certain men because they can "just tell" he's a bad person. Crack addicts and chronic abusers have girlfriends. I'm not saying women are all into physically attractive men who are jerks, but I am saying that being an upstanding citizen is demonstrably not a requirement. And when you look at those people and think to yourself "I may not be perfect, but I'm not worse than that guy... and yet I'm still alone", it can sting pretty bad. Not only that, but there's a strong argument to be made that women have most of the advantages in modern gender dynamics, both legally and socially. Legally, a woman can leave you at any time, and take the kids and half your shit, plus alimony/child support. She gets bored of you in ten years? Tough shit homie, should've been born psychic. Women can also call sexual harassment over anything or nothing. Actually manage to have sex and she regrets it afterward? Made a slightly off color joke that your female coworker took offense to? The large majority of the time the world and courts will "Listen and Believe", and your life is over. Most women aren't psychopaths, but firefighters don't run into a burning building with a plan to die either and despite the measures taken against that possibility, it still happens. It just isn't worth it. Whether it's getting "MeToo'd," or she's just not "haaaappppyyy" anymore, or whatever it is.

Socially, there are far more men looking for women than the other way around. Practically all a woman has to do to get a date is exist and not be fat. A man has to have all the things I mentioned about concerning jobs and hobbies and friends, and that's basically the expectation at a minimum. I've seen men say "I've got all the things society told me to get in order to be attractive to women" only to be met with "So does everybody else, what else you got?"

It just isn't worth it.

The OP is a great example because yes while it's true that some men can and do benefit with your approach, it fails to explain why so many more who tread the path fail to succeed when doing it. This is yet another example of doing what the women here do all the time, playing 'hide the ball' with the reality of what's actually going on. The reason men get pissed off so much has less to do with their lack of success and has more to do with them being constantly lied to about why things actually are the way they are.

Lonelybuthopeful9 · 2022-01-10T12:37:18+00:00

Yeah, if the guy already is overweight he can look better with a simple diet.

Doesnt work for me tho, as I am already not fat

Blightning421 · 2022-01-10T14:00:44+00:00

Men can't be taller without dangerous and expensive surgery

That's not a viable option, and any man under '6 is below average to women, let alone top 20%

Deadlocked02 · 2022-01-10T12:29:59+00:00

Dude, you’re from Malaysia, from what I can see in your profile. 5’9 is high for the county. It’s not really small anywhere in the world in my book, except in a few countries, but specially not in Malaysia. It never fails, whenever a guy comes to talk about how all you need to do is up your game, get a haircut or some BS like this, to talk about how he’s successful despite being average, he’s really not as average as he thinks he is.

logiauser · 2022-01-10T14:36:32+00:00

None of this means you’re in the top 20% though.

gimpgirl555 · 2022-01-10T18:00:24+00:00

In my personal experience as an “average” man who improved a lot by losing 30 pounds, becoming lean and muscular, always keep my facial hair clean shaven, fitting cloth, good body posture (due to weight lost) and good hair cut. I have seen women checking me out a lot and even accidentally making an eye contact couple of times with them. My social skills also improve a lot because I feel confident with my body. Before you said anything about my height, I’m 5’9.

So your payout from all of this was "eye contact" seriously?

Isn't that proof that effort doesn't work? If you're going to put in months of work there needs to be a guaranteed payout.

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Perseus_the_Bold · 2022-01-10T17:55:30+00:00

The effort has to be worth the prize.

Men: ask yourselves - What am I shooting for? Are you doing it all just to get some pussy? Or are you doing it all just to get a better life for yourself with or without the pussy? The better life is one in which you would still be well off without pussy. Because if you need a woman in your life in order to be happy then you've already failed at it.

TheJim66 · 2022-01-10T12:18:59+00:00

Yes. As long as he puts effort towards the things TRP says matter and not whatever delusion bloops think is important, sure.

whymustveibeenborn · 2022-01-10T12:21:07+00:00

Lmao, keep dreaming

Gari_305 · 2022-01-10T12:27:10+00:00

In my personal experience as an “average” man who improved a lot by losing 30 pounds, becoming lean and muscular

You're talking about the body game which does work.

wtknight · 2022-01-10T13:31:33+00:00

I don’t know about top 20%, but the more effort a man puts in, the higher the attractiveness the women will be that will send him IOIs. This alone should motivate men to put in effort.

Even a very low value man will notice a difference, although whether the women who start to notice him are ones who actually meet his own desired attractiveness threshold is a different story.

Specialist-Action-33 · 2022-01-10T13:48:16+00:00

The average man who puts in some efforts has a 20% chance success rate rather than a 0% chance

szclimber · 2022-01-10T14:30:28+00:00

I don't know about top 20% but I agree with the concept of self improvement. All we can do in life is make the best of it and hope it all works out. Their are no guarantees and sometimes our best is not enough but we still need to try.

Brilliant-Hornet1916 · 2022-01-10T14:34:21+00:00

You need to be in a certain bracket genetically to have a chance of making it to the top 20%.

This idea that average or below average guys aren't in the top 20% because they're fat is nonsense. You need a decent foundation to work with.

If you walk into a nightclub this weekend there will be no fat guys there, the guys will all be dressed very similar and have the same fuckboy haircut. However a small % of the men in there will be getting the majority of the physical attraction - the guys with good looking faces, height, broad frame, popular ethnicity, full head of hair.

If you're in the bottom ~40% genetically I don't think you're making it into the top 20% of looks unless you go to extreme lengths in terms of cosmetic improvements.

The closer you are to the top 20% genetically then the higher the chance you have of breaking into that top 20%.

Luckily you don't actually need to be top 20% to get interest from a woman.

NotTheBestMoment · 2022-01-10T14:56:07+00:00

Having full facial hair in America is not possible for most people

xClanWarsCommunity · 2022-01-10T15:28:24+00:00

If average man is willing to put some efforts they can become the top 20%

It depends on what factors are making you average/below average, and whether or not they're fixable or not.

For instance, a man who's 6 ft tall and naturally broad shouldered but 100 pounds overweight, would probably be able to fix his attraction issue, because the thing that is making him undesirable (his weight) is fixable. If he lost weight and got fit, because of his height and naturally broad shoulder frame, now he would be considered fairly good looking.

On the other hand, a 4 ft 11 low functioning autistic man, will never reach the top 20% because what makes him romantically/sexually undesirable (his height and disability) are factors outside of his control. Can be find love? Sure. But he's never going to be as successful as a really good looking guy, or maybe even a normal guy.

_feedback_blasting_ · 2022-01-10T15:36:54+00:00

man who improved a lot by losing 30 pounds, becoming lean and muscular, always keep my facial hair clean shaven, fitting cloth

This. I feel men don't have the right to complain until and unless they've reached this state.

For women, there is a switch that goes off. It's binary. It's yes or no. Once you reach that stage where you're lean enough to show off your cheekbones, your jaw and chin AND you're also fit/tone AND you're dressed/stylish.... you will have absolutely no trouble attracting women

Urbantexasguy · 2022-01-10T16:00:59+00:00

Believe it or not, some of us men are still motivated by things OTHER than women. I like being in shape, for its own sake. I like nice cars, nice clothes, a nice house, decent furniture, and cool friends, for their own sakes, even if they get me no women.

If they get me women, that’s a bonus. I’m pretty sure that’s how it’s supposed to work.

bison5595 · 2022-01-10T16:15:45+00:00

Simply saying just go meet people is feel good nonsense dating advice. It makes it appear as if approaching women is that easy. It’s a skill that requires strategy and proper tactics. If you aren’t a natural, you have find somebody who can teach you. Just simply going up and talking is wasting time

goochiegg · 2022-01-10T17:44:31+00:00

I'm 145 lbs and still struggle

ZoeLevinxoxo · 2022-01-10T12:25:01+00:00

Average men? Yes

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Comments	111
Date	January 10, 2022 12:01 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
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