Doubts about the red pill ideology

Lina-Inverse · 2023-10-29T01:19:16+00:00

I consider myself red pill I don't agree with a single one of those points. Most ppl don't.

Especially cheating which I consider to be an absolutely abhorrent act, regardless of which gender does it.

You take what you find useful from an ideology, reject what you don't. I find many aspect of red pill useful, I find some useless or morally wrong.

Nothing states you have to align with every aspect of an ideology, especially the extremes.

TheRedPillRipper · 2023-10-29T00:33:18+00:00

there are some ideologies that I can’t seem to come to terms with

Which is fine. TRP doesn’t recommend getting married. Yet here I am, soon to celebrate 10 years. Ultimately TRP are just strategies. Take submissiveness. Women don’t need to be submissive, but most people don’t want someone who’s unreasonably argumentative. A more accurate description would be as Kevin Samuels puts it; agreeableness.

Or take cheating. It’s takes work. Some men would prefer to pour that energy into one relationship. So ignore advice about cheating. The same goes for strategies around divorce. Maintaining attractiveness. Provision. Marriage and kids.

TRP simply lays out strategies, rooted in self improvement. How one uses them? Is individual choice.

Godspeed and good luck!

Something-bothersome · 2023-10-29T03:36:18+00:00

Yes you are right of course, a lot of these concepts don’t work simply because they do not transcend logically into the a complexity of real life.

Take Divorce for instance. You can ban divorce but marriage and divorce are social concepts with some legal consequences. While you can ban divorce you can not stop someone from actually leaving - which is a very accessible option today. Once one spouse chooses to leaves there is very little recourse and banning divorce becomes pretty irrelevant and a net negative for both parties long term. Banning divorce realistically means you could remain married to someone for the next 50 years, be attached with legal consequences and yet never see them again. There is no real benefit and across a population pretty non in-forceable in real terms once in their mind they choose to not abide by the concept of being “married”.

h1shman · 2023-10-29T16:53:34+00:00

I only agree with 4 but that also you should stay healthy as a man.

The internet had an issue where the most offensive things tend to get the most views. This pushes content creators to slowly push the envelope and repeat the more outrageous opinions.

Playing with Fire is probably the only Repiller who isn’t off his rocker. He’s very nuanced etc. most of his content is PUA but a lot of his older videos are about hypergamy etc.

redditloginfail · 2023-10-31T11:10:33+00:00

I miss when red pill was just a reference to a rad movie.

throwaway164_3 · 2023-10-29T01:11:10+00:00

I think that’s good. You should question the redpill and not accept everything, especially the terrible bits

Just use it to understand what women are truly attracted to (looks, height, money, status, dominance) and improve yourself to become attractive.

At its core, the redpill just says women all have very similar preferences in men that have been shaped by sexual selection and evolutionary biology.

The redpill explains why women are insanely attracted to tall men, why they engage in AF/BB etc

Barely-moral · 2023-10-29T02:57:35+00:00

TRP is not an ideology. Is a set of tools. Use them to get to your goals if you find them effective, discard if they are not helping.

Wide-Illustrator2906 · 2023-10-29T06:53:47+00:00

"Women need to be submissive to a man and should return to their traditional gender roles and a man should be allowed to lead."

That isn't red pill, that's tradcons who wish to go back to the 1950's.

What if she doesn't want to go into a relationship with someone who earns over 500k but is disloyal, but rather with someone who earns 60k-70k but is loyal?

This could be true for an individual woman but it's been proven that the majority of women want high earning men.

Why a woman has to accept that as a "harsh reality" When it's all about preferences?

Whether she accepts it or not is irrelevant but the truth is the truth. Stating truths will always upset people

"Divorce should be banned" -

This is not red pill ideology, it's tradcons and MRA'S

Your wife shouldn't let herself go in terms of physical beauty or else you can leave her"

This is actually a red pill thought that relationships are temporary and if you are not getting what you want it's perfectly fine to leave the relationship. As the red pill says "She's not yours, it's just your turn.

"Men should provide and protect and women should take care of the household to add value to the man's life"

Tradcon talking point, that has nothing to do with the red pill

"Women should be married before 25 otherwise they'll end up as unhappy single cat mothers"

Tradcon talking point, that has nothing to do with the red pill

Spyro7x3 · 2023-10-29T01:41:36+00:00

Anything that starts with a "should" is prescriptive not descriptive. Redpill is about identifying and describing behaviors between the sexes. The things you're talking about are prescriptions pushed by varying ideologies. The same people who say marriage is bad are not the ones saying women are better off in a domestic role. There are some atheistic liberal men who want traditional women because it satisfies their libido but no one takes them seriously because they have no moral standing and they pick and choose.

Men being allowed to cheat is a very minority opinion most men will rather say women cheating is worse and has a 99% chance of destroying a relationship because men take it harder and feel undermined and disrespected on every level whereas women seem to be able to forgive cheating from their man because of multitude reasons, one is pre selection it means her man is still desirable and good enough to attract other women.

jamacianmecrazy67890 · 2023-10-29T01:29:19+00:00

This is more about her not being argumentative. It should be a partnership. For example, if a woman is wanting to spend a weekend with a male co-worker. How does she react if her partner doesn't like the idea. Does she see where he's coming from or does she gaslight him?
I don't think it's in men's dna to cheat. Men generally can't support, financially or otherwise, several children from several different women.
Alimony should be banned. You shouldn't be able do divorce for no reason and still get alimony.
Sure life happens but they should make an effort to stay in shape.
Whatever they want to do.
Not really a risk. There are too many desperate men out there that she'll be able to find someone whenever she wants.

leosandlattes · 2023-10-29T03:14:46+00:00

Red pill, at its core, is a set of generalized explanations for male and female sexual selection. The resulting advice that you should take with you depends on what you want out of it and your goals in life. Some men won’t want to get married, so they’re going to use the red pill strategies that maximize getting hookups and flings. Some men do want to get married, so they use the strategies that maximize finding a woman that he can build a life with.

Some of the points can also be tailored to your needs/preferences. For example, the submission one: submission doesn’t mean women can’t work or be educated or have a say in their relationship. My fiancé leads our relationship; that doesn’t mean he doesn’t value my thoughts and opinions. Sometimes I disagree with him, but I always assume he’s coming from a good place. Because if you’ve chosen a good leader, he’s supposed to look out for the both of you. He’s not supposed to view you as inferior or incapable or someone to boss around. And I certainly don’t think I’m incapable or stupid, but I defer to my partner because I trust him. That’s all “submission” is.

You take what you need from it. It’s a toolkit; use the ones you like or the ones that work for you. Leave the ones that you don’t agree with. You don’t have to do everything outlined in TRP.

In the red pill women sub, the vast majority of women use the advice to find a husband and have traditional, male-led relationships. There was a popular post some time ago about a sugar baby who used red pill theory about submission, agreeableness, femininity, etc. to just be a better sugar baby, and eventually secure a relationship with some rich dude lol.

So use it how you want to!

DietTyrone · 2023-10-29T01:41:59+00:00

RP isn't hard doctrines you need to follow. Take the advice with a grain of salt and see what applies in your life and what doesn't.

Toxic_LigmaMale · 2023-10-29T02:35:03+00:00

Most ideologies have good parts and bad. Listen and absorb what you find useful. Discard what you don’t.

SteveSan82 · 2023-10-29T08:13:08+00:00

You are not understanding the RP properly. You are mixing up Red Pill and Purple Pill concepts with each other

SlowEffective8146 · 2023-10-29T13:53:03+00:00

"Women need to be submissive to a man and should return to their traditional gender roles and a man should be allowed to lead."

Women need to be submissive to an extent for the relationship to be successful, in the same way that men need to be masculine. I think it's hypocritical to demand masculine men while being a masculine woman yourself, like think why would a man go for that?

"Men should be allowed to cheat since it's in their DNA"

I don't think men should be allowed to cheat. I think cheating is wrong obviously, but I can acknowledge biological differences in men/women's cheating. Men do cheat for variety generally and women cheat for hypergamy.

"Divorce should be banned"

Also disagree.

"Your wife shouldn't let herself go in terms of physical beauty or else you can leave her"

I do agree here. When you commit/marry a woman you are signing an invisible, unspoken contract to maintain yourself. If men are expected to maintain their value, then woman are expected to maintain theirs as well. If she's not fucking you, getting fat, lazy, not keeping up her appearance, it's totally within the realm of divorce or leaving.

"Men should provide and protect and women should take care of the household to add value to the man's life"

It depends, most men need dual income to survive. So this wouldn't exactly work.

DesertShifter · 2023-10-29T14:55:27+00:00

For the most part if a man doesnt lead the relationship doesn't last. People take the submissive thing too seriously as "get back in the kitchen" when it really is just "let me make the rare but massive decisions in life (moving to a new house, moving for a career builder...)" and its also not like she gets no input either. A good example is a friend who went to law school abroad, wife wasnt happy with the 3 year move and debt but his new salary made up for the sacrifice. As for high end working women, most stop working too, theres a reason law firms are desperate to keep women and its because they all leave for less stress.
Its BS, if you want polygamy tell her straight or dont commit. No one gets to cheat.
When people bring this up they mean no fault divorce. Before this we had at fault which made sense, your marriage is secure unless you commit abuse, abandonment or adultery and if she cheated or abandoned you to divorce you then she was at fault and waives alimony while if he cheated he was on the hook for it. No fault allows punishment for the one who does nothing wrong, thats why many men hate it. No fault makes marriage as unsecured as a normal relationship but adds legal penalties that can no longer be avoided by doing everything right as no finding of fault is necessary for the divorce to be granted.
We dont mean after childbirth or natural aging, we mean "went from eating well to eating 4 supersized mcdonalds meals a day"
Protection and provision does not mean no education, its illegal to not educate your children, this is ridiculous. It effectively means work out and make enough for a family.
Its a trade off, she can prioritize career but men dont care for it. Pew research put a womans career as being 7-8% of her total worth when looking at a woman as a full package. Younger and less of a past > older and bigger income.

SecondEldenLord · 2023-10-29T19:37:30+00:00

1 - I agree that traditional roles are the best way to have a relationship since it's mostly in our instincts.

2 - Cheating is bad from both parties, men shouldn't cheat either.

3 - Divorce shouldn't be banned at all, but no party should lose anything.

4 - I think it's fair that if the man is not attracted to the wife anymore, he can leave her, same how a woman can leave the man if she is not attracted to him anymore.

5 - Yes, 100% agree to this.

6 - The younger you are as a woman, the more wanted you are by a man. Younger women mean: less body count, less baggage, less trauma, higher probability to have healthy babies.

upsidemaze · 2023-10-29T03:04:20+00:00

Women don't have that high level of testosterone as men. So they feel emotions more strongly than men. Problem is emotions cause discomfort and brain seeks to sooth itself. Women do it through solipsism and other defensive mechanism. That's why so many women are in therapy because they don't have control over their own decisions. What she can do is use a man as a surrogate to stabilize her life and do what she is designed to do, ride the waves of her feelings without discomfort. But the men need training to do that which has been sabotaged by feminism.

So a woman who is strong independent etc is good for us, she pays taxes and works for company that I invest in. But that does not mean she will not be in antidepressants and stuff. Which is again good for me as I have some shares of pharma companies.

But life is more than working. Is a strong and independent women happy and content with her life or she is all day screaming at her kids, nagging her husband, stressed, on antidepressants, in therapy that works temporarily but not always.

Red pill is amoral so it is not question of who should or shouldn't be allowed to do something. We have theories of why men cheat and why women cheat. So should men be allowed to cheat that's the decision of his partner. Would women who is my partner is allowed to cheat. She can but then she will be demoted to a plate and her only value to me will be to get my dick wet.
Honestly I think marriage should end as an institution. And it is ending in the sense that all it does it makes some lawyers rich. Red pill has ended the importance of marriage since women do not seem to care. So stay plan is the go plan whether you are married or not. so no redpill do not want divorce to be banned. We do want to leave old fat wife for younger women without paying alimony. But that's the job for feminists by making women work and earn as much.
The time is different now. Those grandfather had wife that add value to their lives. They cooked cleaned etc. Modern women dont. They bring our chore charts to make housework as equal as possible. So what value do old wrinkled women add to a man's life that a younger non wrinkled women do not. Its never about equality or fairness it's about value.
That's tradcon talking point. Red pill does not support this unguided form of sacrifice from men.
Bro listen to me. You are making excuses for women. Most women have had their crazy phase and they are looking. To settle down by the time they are 30. Don't be the guy they settle for. If you want wife do it with women who is willing to marry you BEFORE their epiphany phase. Otherwise you would be the guy who is not entitled to sex after she gave birth to kids.

Rebexl5150 · 2023-10-29T03:35:23+00:00

I stand firm in my convictions even though people with ideologies like these mods try to silence me & or use S.I.G.N Language (Shame Insults Guilt & the Need to be right).

macone235 · 2023-10-29T03:30:36+00:00

Women should be submissive, because that's what women want. They want men to lead. That doesn't mean you have to lead on every single issue. It's normal to defer responsibility to women, but at the same time - you need to be the CEO, and if you're not, then most women won't respect, or be attracted to you. There's nothing wrong with a women working, and achieving something other than the fact that you'll have to be at least if not more successful than her, or she won't give you the time of the day. The more masculine she is, then the more masculine you have to be to hold frame and make her content.
Loyalty typically isn't a woman's priority in a relationship. Otherwise, there wouldn't be an abundance of single agreeable simps. Women prioritize sexual capital, social capital, and financial capital above all else. After that, stuff like loyalty comes into play. For men, loyalty is the thing that men prioritize. That's why it's different. If a woman isn't even loyal, then she's not providing love, she's not providing your child. She's not providing anything. This is why cheating is different between the sexes. It comes down to power dynamics, and one side is just overloaded more than the other when they cheat.
I don't agree.
This kind of comes back to point 2. Men typically want up to 3 things out of women. Love and, or sexual capital, and maybe children. If a woman lets herself go, then she's not providing her end of the bargain. It's also pretty hypocritical, because she would've most likely never gotten with the man if he had let himself go before the relationship when she's the one that had the leverage. Now that the guy has the leverage in the relationship and she's not meeting his requirements, he's supposed to stay?
Once again, this is what women want. You're arguing as if TRP makes the rules. Women make the rules. TRP just points them out and follow them.
I don't think a woman has to be married by 25, but it's better to use your leverage while you still have it. It's also more respectful towards your future partner. Choosing to bang HVM while your 25, and having a simp waiting for you at the wall to pick you up may not last forever.

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Acrobatic_Computer · 2023-10-29T15:34:19+00:00

I generally align much more with RP than BP but I don't agree with most of this.

1 - I don't agree with this as a proscriptive for everyone but I do think there is blatant denialism among people that independence isn't inherently good or desirable. There is a lot of emphasis on how being a SAHM can be a dynamic in abuse, but very little emphasis on the immense upsides that also can result where you end up with a high emotional payoff without having to manage a stressful career (and no, the vast majority of time as a SAHM is not nearly as hard as having a career capable of supporting a wife and kids).

2 - Cheating is wrong.

3 - I don't think divorce should be banned but it is generally a bad thing that a marriage failed.

4 - I'm not a traditionalist and nobody should let themselves go, especially with excess weight (since it causes long-term health issues and significant loss of life span).

5 - I'm not traditionalist.

6 - If they want kids that they're the primary caretaker of then they're wrong in that this is vastly suboptimal. Otherwise I don't think it is morally/innately wrong.

Razieloo · 2023-10-29T23:36:23+00:00

You just found out that the RP is not Heaven

OmoshiroiKudamono · 2023-10-30T01:31:56+00:00

1) The career women tend to seek equal or BETTER men in terms of career. If they TRULY wanted to be dominant, they should seek a man of lower income. For them, MIDDLE INCOME is not good. I am NOT talking about McDonalds salary. Just a basic income is NOT good enough.

2) Men and women "cheat" differently. Men seek sex. Women seek ATTENTION. Examples would be thirst traps.

3) For TRUE, one sided abuse makes sense. But for "abuse," is there proof? Also, is it one sided or mutual? WHY did the man hit his wife? Was she watching TV and he just hit her? A lot of "abuse" is two sided, or female instigated. Equal rights, equal lefts. People should NOT fight, however, if a scrawny man decides to START SHIT with MMA Brock Lesnar and gets f*cked up, the scrawny guy will not do it again.

The laws are f*cked up already. The divorce laws are a whole other topic.

4) We are NOT talking about a "few pounds." Obviously with aging and kids, women gain weight. It's mainly a woman gaining 20, 30, or 50 pounds in a short time. For a man, if she marries a lawyer and the lawyer quits for part time work at McDonalds, SHE GONE.

5) Male cheating TENDS to be easier to work out as long as it is sex only. Women tend to ask, "Do you love her." Most men aren't looking to cheat if their sex lives are happy.

6) There is nothing wrong with prioritizing a career. HOWEVER, they canNOT have it all. No one is saying they can't find a man. Its just that it will be DIFFICULT to find the 666 man. When they say men, they mean the 666 man. No one gives a f*ck about the (decent) men in her friend zone who would TRULY care for her. The career woman would have to compete with younger options for the 666 man. The rest of men are INVISIBLE, NON EXISTENT, NPCs.

Most women are in the 304flation epidemic. They also don't want to "settle" for Basic Bob, even though the women themselves are Basic Becky. Its either 6666 Chad or the cats. Cats and wine > Basic Bob.

DzejSiDi · 2023-10-30T11:33:46+00:00

This list is really tainted by tradcons' believes - because of that I won't address 3,4 and 5.

1) "Women need to be submissive to a man ~~and should return to their traditional gender roles~~ and a man should be allowed to lead."

Time for some oversimplified evopsych. Basic hypergamy, so why fuck average Joe, when you can fuck a winner, or a potential winner. Or you have no much to say/decide anyway, because winners restrict your choosing options. Males that are winners or have potential to be winners are usually aggresive and dominant, and a submissive partner is complementary, another dominant person is either way pain in the ass or a competition that should be punched in the face. Women are not good at taking punches and this is counterproductive from a specie perspective, so women evolved to have more neotenic characteristic (because you don't punch children too) and be generally more submissive. They are even on average happier acting this way. I've seen good relationship where man was dominant or it was more or less even partnership, couples with dominant women usually don't work.

And from current perspective, a man, in order to not be a loser, needs to compete and perform. It is super annoying to come back to home and have yet another power struggle there to fight. If you allow yourself to be pushed, you will be perceived as a weak, she will lose respect and attraction to you.

2) "Men should be allowed to cheat since it's in their DNA"

Both sexes compromise their optimal sexual strategies when locking themselves into monogamic relationship. Technically speaking a man can get away easier with cheating by abusing difference of perceived SMV. Harsh reality, but this is mostly about how attractive you are in her eyes, not how how well you treat her, and women love men that other women desire. Fucking other women, even when you were supposed to be sexually exclusive, can even raise her attraction to you in some way, but this is still toxic, short-sighted, damaging to your relashionship and not recommended in any way by anyone sane.

6) "Women should be married before 25 otherwise they'll end up as unhappy single cat mothers"- I understand the dating preference of wanting a partner with a less dating history. But there are still women who had prioritised their career in early 20s, hence again don't have a long dating history or sometimes no dating history at all. Are these women in the wrong to do so?

Women are generally speaking most attractive to the opposite sex during college years - then their SMV declines steadly till they're ~30, after that decline accelerates. If they want to aim as high as they can (and most of them do), before 25 is the time to "cash in your chips". Transitioning into real adulthood, getting education/career/business starting and running AND on top of that securing potential mate... that's a lot to do at the same time, but that's how clash of biology and current society looks like now. Not women fault, but this is their problem anyway. Lack of baggage in form of tiny dating experience is an advantage, not disadvantage, but higher age is not. Of course there are many caveats, for example 30 years old man can prefer 27-28 years old woman, if he wants to start family sooner than later, but general trends are as I described them.

Title	Doubts about the red pill ideology
Author	Ready-Party-2022
Upvotes	7
Comments	86
Date	October 28, 2023 9:13 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/17in9gk/doubts_about_the_red_pill_ideology/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/doubts-about-the-red-pill-ideology.1236660 https://theredarchive.com/post/1236660

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