How do you define "manipulative" behavior

Dom-Francon · 2023-06-23T03:48:50+00:00

If you lie or misrepresent yourself to get sex- that’s manipulation . If you deliberately gaslight someone to keep the upper hand- that’s manipulation.

AnyIntroduction3288 · 2023-06-23T03:48:39+00:00

I am not sure if I am allowed to post links to the red pill subreddit. But here is what I found when I typed “manipulate” into the search bar on TRP

Italian dude cheats on his African wife by using “psycho analytics” and gaslights and manipulates his wife when she becomes suspicious that he is cheating.

A guy has a guide on how to design your home to manipulate women to go there and have sex and “be in the kitchen”

“Three ways to consciously manipulate women before they manipulate you”

“Don’t feel guilty about manipulating women: they do it to you already”

“Stages of manipulation”

A guide for manipulation

Now let’s define manipulate:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/manipulate

: to control or play upon by artful, unfair, or insidious means especially to one's own advantage

Having your cleavage out isn’t insidious. It’s there. The guys can see it. Pretending to be interested in a serious relationship when you just want to fool around is insidious.

MistyMaisel · 2023-06-23T03:55:11+00:00

So, the way I'm defining manipulative may be a bit more complicated since I'm really using it as an umbrella for a lot of different behaviors.

It mostly amounts to getting a person to do something they would not otherwise do if you weren't being manipulative/knew the truth and would regret or be harmed by. You're tricking them into going against their own best interests or good.

As an aside, I am astonished how so many men seem to be totally...unbothered with the idea of a woman regretting sex with him in a pronounced way. Like, if I knew a dude regretted any sort of physical contact with me, I'd feel horrid. I wouldn't be at all casual about it to the point of giggling about buyer's remorse. Especially if I knew I'd been a bit underhanded, I'd feel deeply ashamed and awful.

Sorry, I needed to say that. Back to the real topic.

I think to some extent this does depend greatly on some agreed upon norms of decency in a polite and ethical society. A person may not like a woman showing cleavage, and that is fair, but would most men agree they feel tricked and like it is a bad societal move to allow women to show off their more attractive assets to improve their job? Probably not.

Just like I don't think most women would complain if the only dating manipulation most men were involved in was showing off their yummy muscles and dashing smile. Yes, it is meant to get our attention and perhaps sway us, but it is essentially fair sport and most of us enjoy that and it isn't so effective as to convince someone to go against their best wishes.

The common sense stuff pua mention like looking good, knowing what you want, being confident, being direct, going after what you want, having a decent job, working out, could all be deemed as manipulation, but I don't think most of us would elect for them to stop.

Most of us would absolutely elect for them to stop lying, stop negging, stop these mechanical escalation plans, stop manipulating use to work for approval, etc.

I think on some level, if you know this girl wouldn't elect to have sex with you or a relationship if you weren't behaving in these manipulative ways, you kind of know you're out of pocket. The dudes would still eat at that restaurant and probably tip even if there was no cleavage. Women probably wouldn't be fucking these guys at all if they knew the truth. That's a drastically different outcome. And it's a wrong one.

nevernotthesame · 2023-06-23T04:33:30+00:00

no way you made a post over what i said lmao. i guess i really struck a nerve.

what makes a strategy manipulative is when it contains manipulation. tatics such as negging, hot and cold/silent treatment, and lying. the term "game" is almost synonymous with manipulation when TRP uses it. TRP actively encourages men to act in a psychopathic way to "game" women.

EulenWatcher · 2023-06-23T03:50:04+00:00

Behaviour that controls or influences somebody/something, often in a dishonest way so that they do not realize it

Manipulation is generally considered a dishonest form of social influence as it is used at the expense of others.

In the context of TRP/PUA it's usually about lying/creating a false impression about your intentions, your identity etc. to get into a woman's pants and using certain tactics to make your partner feel insecure and complacent.

I'm not sure that showing a bit more cleavage is manipulative, as it isn't necessarily dishonest. You like looking at it - you give more tips. In the same way a male waiter might get some heels or show off his buffed arms, either of these things isn't really dishonest imv.

Unnecessary-Training · 2023-06-23T05:09:21+00:00

In one word-lying. Pretending to be someone you're not, pretending to want something you don't actually want, pretending to not want that which you actually want, and the like.

TermAggravating8043 · 2023-06-23T07:40:02+00:00

Manipulation is a tool used to get a person to do what you want, sometimes using dishonesty, sometimes just evading the truth, usually ignoring set boundaries, reflecting awkward topics and using a darvo approach when called out for your behaviour.

Deliberately playing into a woman’s empathy to make her feel guilty for saying no or challenging you.

Example, “shall we go on a date, you could come round to my place?”

“Oh I don’t do homes for the first few dates, how about somewhere local for coffee?”

“How about you decide when you get here? You can always leave early if you want?”

“Erm no thank you, how about that place next to the park?”

“I really want to show you my cat, I thought you loved cats? I’d make sure no one else was here”

“I just don’t really don’t do houses as a first date,”

“Well, I didn’t want to have to do this, but I’m really struggling with money right now,”

“Oh, that’s ok, I’m more than happy to buy you a coffee or even lunch if we feel like it?”

“Well how about you pick me up from my place first and we’ll see how we feel?”

“…. (Sign)…. Ok”

This is pure manipulation, ignoring boundaries, potentially lying, playing in the persons guilt to get them to do what you want

RatchedAngle · 2023-06-23T12:59:18+00:00

When two humans exchange bodily fluids, both people should be upfront and honest in stating their intentions if the subject comes up.

If a woman asks, “What are we?”

If your thought is: You are a fucktoy and have zero chance of becoming anything more to me

But your real-life response is: “Right now I’m enjoying my time with you, maybe later it will be something serious”

Then you are being dishonest. Dishonesty is wrong especially when someone has expressly asked you to clarify the status of the relationship.

Yes, a female server showing cleavage to men for more tips is also being manipulative. That’s why many women hate it when their boyfriends/husbands go to Hooters and strip clubs. It’s a building where women are specifically trained to swindle you out of your money just by being nice to you, and you’ll smile like an idiot while they make fun of you behind your back.

I’m 100% convinced you’d have zero problems labeling the behaviors in female dating strategy as “manipulative.”

When a woman implies to a man that he’s the only one she’s fucking so he will pay for dinner, but she’s actually got multiple dates set up for later that week…is that manipulative?

ReplacementPasta · 2023-06-23T11:26:33+00:00

The dictionary definition is pretty good

influencing or attempting to influence the behavior or emotions of others for one's own purposes:

dyngladfel · 2023-06-23T11:56:56+00:00

Pushing boundaries, lying, saying you have one sexual or romantic goal when it's another. TRP is proudly manipulative, it's explicitly stated within its core discourse.

Mentathiel · 2023-06-23T20:50:20+00:00

Dude. You're arguing with every single response you get. Do you actually want to understand what we are referring to or are you just looking to dismiss everything anyone says? People have already brought up countless good points, but you don't seem interested in listening at all. Maybe this would've worked better as a CMV than a QFW.

I think manipulation is any behavior designed or subconsciously learned, used to influence other people's behavior in order to get them to unknowingly act against their own self-interest. That's the best definition I can come up with.

lacuti3 · 2023-06-23T05:26:45+00:00

Most of the sex women are having is manipulative. Transactional sex is women’s nature and couples have more sex than single people. It’s at the forefront of a lot of women’s minds that piv doesn’t feel like much and they need oral to get off but they fuck a lot in the beginning to get guys to commit/marry them 😏. Of course some women are going to reply saying this isn’t them but it’s way more common for women to be the way I described. It’s funny seeing men think they know their exes/girlfriends/wives really well when they don’t.

AnonJetlag · 2023-06-23T03:26:36+00:00

They complain it’s manipulative because it works.

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RocinanteCoffee · 2023-06-23T15:35:57+00:00

This is general, obviously there are some exceptions:

Testing, designing scenarios, environments, experience with an attempt to change someone's behavior or mind without talking to them openly and honestly about it. Changing your behavior or being to something that isn't genuine to you dishonest about yourself or your beliefs or life just to try to illicit a particular behavior or response from someone in a surreptitious way. For example, pretending to be really into a band she likes that you don't just to try to gain some common ground (obviously not if you're just curious about it and genuinely fall in love with the band and obviously not if you're just learning about them to find out when they're coming into town to suggest a date at a concert or something).

Playing games to illicit responses, to try to make someone feel unsafe, on edge, confused, bewildered, or defensive (negging, dread game).

Using sales techniques instead of direct communication, that sort of thing.

Title	How do you define "manipulative" behavior
Author	rhagaeas_executioner
Upvotes	3
Comments	114
Date	June 23, 2023 3:17 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/14gne4o/how_do_you_define_manipulative_behavior/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/how-do-you-define-manipulative-behavior.1223081 https://theredarchive.com/post/1223081

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