Is TRP a self-fulfilling prophecy?

drrrrrr · 2014-12-05T01:21:27+00:00

So, this is not really answering your post, but it's just food for thought. I'm 30 and most of my friends were exactly like you - fairly cool guys who had their lives handled, met "good girls" through courtship / BP strategies, got married fairly young. They would rave about it just like you do, like "yeah we fuck like rabbits", "yeah she cooks for me.", and so on.

The BP strategies took them far, no doubt, and for a good while they enjoyed the results us on TRP would say that "only guys with alpha traits would get."

As every year passed though, guess what happened. A little attraction lost. A few divorces. One friend cannot go out with us because his wife disapproves. One dude got fat and his wife fucked another friend who was too beta and pussy-starved to say no to fucking his best friend's wife. The deterioration came; eventually their lack of RP masculinity and their belief in mainstream approaches showed its wear and tear. These guys were all like you, all graduates of a good school and social, fun guys. About 10% of them are still happily married.

A few months ago we were in Vegas and these guys couldn't pick up college chicks and had to pay out the ass for strippers to soothe their ego. It was pathetic. One guy is seperated form his fat (but once beautiful and smart) wife and he's dating a single-mom who doesn't care about him, but only the fact that he works in a SF hedge fund.

I am not going to argue with you, but think about this. You are 23. At 23 you have delusional confidence, which is healthy and useful. You believe in this idea of permanence, that everything that is OK now will be OK forever. Her love will grow as you age, and as you age, and you don't have to dabble in any of this TRP shit to keep her as interested and horny as she is today.

Maybe. Maybe that's the case. It's certainly pretty to think so. Realistically though, as the two of you age, she is going to want more from you than the BP qualities she can get from any man. Now she is loyal and devoted, sure, but women change a LOT, A LOOOOOT from 21-25, and then even more from 25-30. As life happens, you don't want to be a boiling frog, thinking everything is A-OK until all of a sudden, you realize that it's not.

Do whatever the fuck you want to do, and think what you want to think, but my perspective is this. You've got a great girl. You want to do justice to that - you can maybe "get by" by being beta for now, but why the hell would you want to only get by? As she ages and comes more into her own, she will realize how much of a catch she is (beautiful, feminine, financially successful, etc) and she will want a top-tier, high SMV alpha type guy. Whenever that happens, by 27 or 37, you want to have become that guy.

stevredpill · 2014-12-04T23:48:22+00:00

Aside from the fact that:

we have no way of seeing how your relationship actually is,
we have no way of seeing the future and how your relationship will end,
we have no way of confirming if your wife is "very attractive,"
we have no way of determining if you really do have a high SMV, because one aspect of TRP is not lying to yourself and your status in life so you can keep improving,
and, it is highly suspicious that there is absolutely nothing "bad" about your relationship because every person has their flaws,

TRP looks at historically (because once again, we can't look into the future) what men have experienced, and more people than not have experienced that girls are not as you describe.

In addition, there are always exceptions, so even if your case is true, I would have a hard time believing you would think that 99.99999% of other girls are like yours.

The fact that you say "TRP techniques" suggests to me that you are new here. TRP is not a set of "techinques." It is about coming to face with reality. It is about becoming a better man first and not expecting that a fairy tale princess will drop into your lap if you "just be yourself." It is about being a legit man so you can attract and stay with a legit woman. It is about accepting that women and men are different, not for better or worse, just different, and that we, as men, have been raised in a society that is consistently telling us that we are asexual, androgynous beings.

[deleted] · 2014-12-05T04:03:49+00:00

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relationshipdownvote · 2014-12-05T01:41:29+00:00

You're still young buddy, you've been with her maybe a few years, people can change, don't think it can't happen to you, but don't let that get you down, you're doing something right. My advice to you is 3 simple things, don't bother with dread game or shit tests or any of that, it's complicated and you won't understand it until you've already seen it in action.

Don't get comfortable. You need to be bettering yourself always. Make more money, learn new things, talk to more people, and for god's sake go to the gym.
Have your own interests, don't depend on her. Never think that you couldn't get along without her.
If the sex slows down you are in a relationship emergency, if it stops your relationship is most likely over. It might go on for a while longer, but most likely she will either dump you or cheat on you after about a year of negligible sex. The only reason you are in a relationship is sex. It is the defining quality, otherwise you would be friends or roommates.

YouDislikeMyOpinion · 2014-12-05T02:56:55+00:00

If I tried some of the techniques described on here, I think our relationship wouldn't last for much more than a month.

See if it lasts more than 10-15 years. You've been with her for just over a year.

A good theory is one that is constantly tested and stands the test of time. One of my biggest goals is to disprove RP. I take the world to be what it is, I have no emotional attachment to RP or non-RP. Disproving RP would open up a whole new field of interest for me to delve into. Yet every single time I try to disprove an aspect of a theory that was built upon by the experiences of countless men worldwide, RP takes my shit test and shoves it up my ass. Each potentially RP-breaking thing I explore gets destroyed, making the theory of which I live my life on stronger.

Just_for_boobs · 2014-12-05T10:51:00+00:00

If you are not convinced by commenters by now, go to /r/marriedredpill and read through posts there how much situations have changed after the marriage over time.

Also, it looks like your GF was sheltered the whole time and probably never encountered a real alpha. After you married her and she gets exposed through work or friends more and more, there is a high probability that after your relationship crumbles over time due to your BP attitude she will cheat on you or leave you for an alpha.

The redpill is not a theory, it is accumulated experience of thousands of men who have seen it and were able to analyse and articulate the mistakes they have made. I have been there and came to the same conclusions before the redpill , but i didn't know the answers to my problems then.

I have been hit on by women who were married or in a relationship multiple times. I was even offered sex by an engaged, pregnant girl once, because her man was on a long working trip. I should add that all this happened in my friends circle. My friends are well educated, successful people.

ScumbagBillionaire · 2014-12-05T04:00:27+00:00

It's actually the exact opposite.

Being blue pill is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Blue pill/red pill theory is so fucking precise and accurate, that it can be used to predict future events, as if it was a scientific theory.

Relationships, dating, marriage, and gender dynamics literally become predictable when analyzed through red pill philosophy.

The truth cannot be fucked with. The redpill doesn't need you to agree with it. It remains true regardless. And having a decent girlfriend doesn't disprove anything the TRP teaches so I don't even understand your argument. You don't seem to be making one.

DoctorWelch · 2014-12-05T00:33:45+00:00

There is simply not enough information here to really give an answer to any of your questions. From what you are saying you might be in a situation where you are acting beta and everything hits rock bottom in 10 years after that shit takes its toll.

You might be in a position where you think you are acting "beta" but you have been brought up to naturally be alpha and don't really even know it. A lot of times people who come to this sub might think alpha means being an asshole, being cocky, or acting like a college frat boy. When in reality being calm, in control of your body, in control of your mind, and in control of your life is more along the lines of a true alpha. It is much more complicated but you could be naturally more alpha than you really think.

There is really no way to know with such little information. Yes, dealing with someone like your wife is going to be different then dealing with a woman who fucks a different guy every weekend. You simply look at reality for what it is and adjust based on circumstance. There is no rule or technique, simply an understanding of reality that you use to better yourself and your relationship.

DolorousRedd · 2014-12-05T01:09:06+00:00

I got laid before I came here because women would find me attractive. I had the tall, athletic thing going for me, but also the pussy pedestal problem and most of the other typical "beta" tendencies working against me. I fucked up way more opportunities than I took, but I still took some.

I got laid in spite of my beta tendencies, as most of us did before we came here, rather than because of them. If you are a high SMV like you say, I'd bet that's the case.

newlifeasredpill · 2014-12-05T03:40:44+00:00

Your girlfriend is not a unicorn. If you are indeed acting beta than after marriage and kids you will be married to a different woman. She will hold all the power and after some time of "working on you" it will be the two of you "working on your relationship".

You may not be acting macho alpha right now but you do have the ability to walk away fairly easily. This is keeping her in check and you are seeing the fantasy of "happily ever after".

I picked my wife ten years ago b ecause she too was sweet, had a good job, went to a public ivy, had a great relationship with her dad, and was a great fuck to boot.

Fast forward a decade or so

After two kids she didn't work, wanted a full time nanny to "help her", shit tested me constantly to do things she could easily do for herself, and expected me to help out every second I wasn't working. Oh..and we had sex every two weeks or so. Mostly because I couldn't stand the sight of her.

I was in a daze for years thinking "how did she change?" "How do I get out of this without losing all my dough and my kids?" "Am I really wearing size 36 pants and they are tight???"

You don't have to be a dick to prevent this from happening. You just have to be the best you can be. You take care of yourself. She will adore that you do.

You will see that your woman doesn't love you like you love her. If you think she does... than she will soon hate you. She won't know it's hate, but it is.

A marriage without the RP tenets may last but it will be a very bad deal for the man.

MLMIKE39 · 2014-12-04T22:25:43+00:00

Justice, plenty of people are "insecure and lacking in confidence"... not just women. As you are naturally drawn to an attractive woman, many women look past a man's looks and are drawn to personality traits... and confidence.

Could you describe which techniques you're referring to? RP involves dealing with women, but at it's core, it's truly more about helping you to be the best version of yourself. And bear in mind that you don't have to do everything that you about RP. Do what works for you.

DeepDee · 2014-12-04T22:36:29+00:00

Conservative upbringing, virgin and family values. Sounds exactly like me and my ex-wife. Not to be all doom and gloom, but you may be setting yourself up for disaster.

I'll tell you how my story ended. She cheated on me with men and women, was taking amphetamines and quit her job to start stripping.

From angel to demon in no time flat. My life was hell for years and I'm finally over it. I wouldn't wish what I went through on anyone.

My advice. Don't marry someone whose virginity you took. Also, If you were a virgin as well, then I'd recommend sleeping with a few more women before you make any sort of marriage plans.

ddundly · 2014-12-04T22:18:23+00:00

Not that I am an expert, but I'd like to make a couple points here.

Insecurity and lack of confidence are not driving factors for TRP. It's just biology. Don't tell me you don't look at other hot chicks and think about fucking them...
She is 23 with a catholic upbringing... Egads man. More than likely you are going to end up swallowing a very bitter pill later on... Good luck to you.

[deleted] · Thu Dec 4 22:47:30 2014 UTC

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SheepKing · 2014-12-04T23:02:23+00:00

i've seen the two side of the medals, and women that likes you for non rp reasons, don't really love you. they like something about you. the attraction, the craving and the desire simply isn't there.

DalekJay · 2014-12-05T01:28:31+00:00

You Just discribed my ex, Until out of the blue I saw AWALT, but man good luck, may her make you happy, the thing about AWALT is just how clouded our judgement is when we meet a potential unicorn.

The exception prove the rule, may be your girl the exception, if don't FR about it

nicethingyoucanthave · 2014-12-05T13:38:02+00:00

(1) TRP is advice, in the same way that "lottery tickets are a bad investment" is advice. Even if you happen to have won the lottery, or you know some one who did, I still think that lottery tickets are a bad investment.

...and you haven't won the lottery yet because

(2) it's easy to get a girlfriend. Like you, I too have had very happy, loving, and healthy relationships with attractive, sweet and thoughtful women. ...there's no but at the end of that. I'm still friends with many of my exes. I date nice women (or maybe I just keep winning the lottery).

It's easy to do. And the ability to walk away from such a relationship is part of what makes you attractive and keeps them treating you well. <--- that's a little red pill truth for you. One of the reasons your girlfriend is attracted to you is that you could walk away at any time.

So, if you want my advice, I would say don't get married. It's like what /u/drrrrrr says above: "every year passed though, guess what happened. A little attraction lost." It's you're life, though. So you do whatever you think best.

(3) phrases you hear on TRP like "AWALT" have subtle meanings. For a start, that phrase is a sarcastic retort against women who attempt to derail conversations by screaming, "I'm not like that! Not all women are like that!" - sort of like how if feminists are discussing their frustrations with men and I rolled into their space screaming, "not all men!!" they would have a sarcastic retort: "what about the menz!!"

Also, when we talk about the way that women behave today, we often don't discuss the underlying cause. But the cause is common to men and women. Thoreau said, "We are conscious of an animal in us, which awakens in proportion as our higher nature slumbers." Plato said, "When the gentler part of the soul slumbers and the control of Reason is withdrawn ...the Wild Beast in us ...becomes rampant."

We in the west have a culture that makes life easy on us, and allows our "higher nature" to sleep. Our culture makes us assholes - men and women. It's exactly like how a spoiled rich kid is an asshole because his parents never told him "no." So while we in TRP may not go through great pains to spell it out, some part of the "AWALT" stories are commentaries on our culture.

To wit, "Catholic and family-oriented" is a good sign, because that's a different culture. So, I wanted to leave you with something encouraging. Good luck and may you have a happy life.

Year_Of_The_Horse_ · 2014-12-05T15:17:28+00:00

It's probable she had the hypergamy trained out of her, by family and catholic education, at least as much as is possible, i.e. she was taught from an early age to find a beta and learn to appreciate him. She got the same kind of training women used to get routinely.

It's likely she's got you fooled, and her sexual history is a lot more extensive than you imagine. Also you may not be as beta as you think you are, you don't know how to calculate your own SMV, since it seems you only have a surface level understanding of TRP

tombreck2 · 2014-12-04T22:15:37+00:00

who respond to and validate TRP techniques

The techniques here are on maximizing your full potential and not putting women on a pedastal which can be accomplished by treating them as equals.

rpodhod · 2014-12-05T00:12:33+00:00

You might want to explain what do you mean by "a total beta" and "TRP on women".

There is nothing wrong with beta qualities, especially in LTR. The problem is, if you lack in alpha department, your woman will get bored or gradually loose respect for you. Once the initial biochemical crush disappears, of course.

Second point is, she might be independent, but is still a woman. If you "drop the balls" , forcing her to take the male role in the family, she will not be happy.

You wouldn't let your woman do the heavy lifting. Same goes for decision making, being an emotional rock, leadership, etc.

RulerZod · 2014-12-05T04:03:28+00:00

Dude, 3 possibilities, this girl is in the .01 %, your smv is high enough she wouldn't want to lose you, or she wasn't even a virgin and was just on her period. I'm going with number 3. There's plenty of indicators but you probably got oneitis so bad to notice.

SeekingTheWay · 2014-12-05T10:35:50+00:00

just for the bleeding part: my last ex was not a virgin but her last bf (her first) had a small cock so i made her bleed the first time we fucked

oldredder · 2014-12-05T03:58:25+00:00

no: all women on Earth validate what TRP shows.

What you're describing doesn't even match 1 woman I've met in my entire life.

For the sake of not being argumentative I won't say she doesn't exist but at the same time if any man told me one day I'll meet that woman I'll flat out tell him not in 200 years will that happen - I'll die of old age before any such woman is anywhere near that I can see.

anonlymouse · 2014-12-05T15:19:57+00:00

TRP isn't a set of techniques, that's PUA. TRP is a realisation of reality. There is no unicorn, she's nice now but she'll leave you if she meets someone she figures is better for her. There are no unicorns, just horses with a horn strapped on.

While you think your SMV may be high, it can undoubtedly go higher, applying TRP would be raising your SMV. That means going to the gym and getting stronger. It means putting a greater focus on your career so you make more money (incidentally, that's what she's banking on, if she commits to you now, she'll get a better payoff when you are really successful, and could actually get a girl who's higher SMV than she is).

If she's not shit testing you that's unusual, so most likely she is and you haven't noticed. In that case you still have to pass them. It doesn't mean being a jerk, it just means not making a mistake.

fnordsnord · 2014-12-05T18:26:16+00:00

The key characteristic of the "Unicorn" is that she won't leave you even if she can find a superior mate. We call her "the Unicorn" because she does not exist.

To keep a woman around, you don't have to be THE alpha, you just have to be HER alpha. Your girl has stuck because you are the best she feels that she can do, regardless of how beta you think you are.

AFPJ · 2014-12-04T22:24:03+00:00

kinds of women who respond to and validate TRP techniques are naturally insecure

TRP is a counter to Feminism, women who find feminism appealing are mostly from broken households and either didn't have a father or had a terrible relationship with him so your hypothesis is spot on, but only for some aspects of RP. Ultimately RP is about maximizing your SMV & bargaining well with it which is something all women respond to.

Women judge reality based on the opinions of those around them, yourself included. Much like you would rather be with a 10 who sometimes shit tests you than a 4 who worships you, your girl wants to be with a high value man. If your value is demonstrated through treating her as less than ideal (within reason) it will increase her attraction to you - this is what gets misunderstood for "women like being treated like shit".

For you specifically:

Insecure women shit test a lot more, but all still shit test.
Maybe she just likes you for some dumb reason, it happens.
Women enter relationships with lower value guys to feel secure.

Your relationship would end if you did RP shit because she sees you as low value. You see yourself as low value and that makes her also perceive you as low value which is the real self-fulfilling prophecy here. Become the shit.

You taking her virginity gives you a massive advantage which explains your situation. Divorce rates for girls who've only had their husbands' cock is 10%, two cocks spikes it up to 60% ...still don't recommend marriage, though.

You can learn a lot from this sub and make your relationship even better.

Turning_The_Corner · 2014-12-05T05:39:30+00:00

TRP is understanding of male and female behavior as per evolutionary biology. And that's totally scientific. Like many scientific interpretations, TRP could get disproved at some point. But i would not bet on it. Its basic and is almost common sense !

Now, I am pretty much 10 year older version of you. Wife was very attractive. We made $300k combined. She cooked breakfast and dinner for me and packed lunch for me. She would blow me in parking lots, in living room while her mom is in another room, and then some.... The day i committed, she turned. Not in a few months, not in a few weeks, right that second!

I acted BP for 3 years of our marriage and she did everything that before marriage was unthinkable. Got a haircut (short hair) that i absolutely hate (She does not even care about the haircut but changing it for me is too much to ask). Would not change her last name to my last name. Cooking is not woman's job now (even though i used to do 80% of the stuff that needs to be done for our living together and also brought in 70% of the paycheck). Cleaning is outsourced to cleaning lady. Anything i would ask her to do would get me a question "why cant i do it".

You appear to be a smart guy having thought of the self prophecy logic so i am sure you will understand this. It could be that she is the anomaly. But KNOW that that will be a fat tail event (4 standard deviation). And we all know what the probabilities of that are.

Be a man. Thats all you are being asked of. There is no other way.

Nerf_Circus · 2014-12-05T08:31:07+00:00

My (24 yr old) gf-less friends who scoff when I mention my red pill mind, are spinning the same line. They have set themselves the dead of 32. To have their 'shit together' and be married. I said 32 is when I'm going to start looking for that girl.

thinktankman · 2014-12-05T19:44:03+00:00

The question is how do you behave like a beta? LTR game is alpha frame beta tendacies.

Nothing turns a female on more than that asshole who does sweet shit for her every now and then. Moderation is key, too much and she will get bored not enough she will get it somewhere else.

Women don't want men they want a god.

pl231 · 2014-12-05T00:02:13+00:00

it's not about TRP working or not working. TRP represents things as they truly are. TRP flourishing or going extinct, human nature will still be the same.

[deleted] · Thu Dec 4 22:58:01 2014 UTC

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Title	Is TRP a self-fulfilling prophecy?
Author	The_BitterTruth
Upvotes	36
Comments	101
Date	December 4, 2014 10:04 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2oavkw/is_trp_a_selffulfilling_prophecy/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/is-trp-a-self-fulfilling-prophecy.25801 https://theredarchive.com/post/25801

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