Always felt Electra complex had something off about it. Now it makes so much more sense. I feel many other women can benefit from knowing this anecdote. From "Why does he do that?" By Lundy Bancroft.

lostmillenia · 2021-05-28T15:12:17+00:00

Who are the therapist perpetuating this myth and can we throw them away too?

theflipsterhipster · 2021-05-28T15:16:21+00:00

This makes so much sense. It's so infuriating how affluent men could get away with their abuse of others and continues to do so.

The Oedipus theory never made much sense anyway. What child would ever "seduce" anyone

Catz10000 · 2021-05-28T17:08:11+00:00

Unfortunately the field of psychology is misogynist. Men do not understand women's lived experiences and most male therapists have as much empathy as the average man. Which is to say, zero.

Freud recanted everything on his deathbed, but unfortunately, as scrotes are wont to do, deep analysis and actual research seem to be beyond their capabilities.

Source: am a forensic psychologist.

luvmyvulvaxoxo · 2021-05-28T16:27:43+00:00

I wish more young girls knew this history. I remember reading about this and thinking "Why the fuck is Freud worshipped???".

I'd love to know if we know who convinced Freud the women/girls were lying and what patients told him they were abused. I'm sure there's overlap.

WorkaholicParty · 2021-05-28T16:08:27+00:00

Lurkers are gonna hate me but most men can't be trusted to write psychological papers or form theories about women's and girl's experiences, not that women are automatically any better. Here's Freud claiming abused girls are actually craving sexual contact from their fathers and here's today behavioural psychologists going to great lengths into interpreting women's behaviours in a way that coddles the patriarchy. And if you say you disagree then you are in denial, so much for falsifiable science...

vforvendetta87 · 2021-05-28T16:25:44+00:00

It’s not rocket science to understand that children will pluck certain, if not most aspects of their parents when choosing a lifetime partner.

Our parents are our first role models and we’re subconsciously-driven to seek what we know because it’s familiar. This applies to both positive up-bringing and a childhood filled with adversities.

Unfortunately, if you grew up experiencing abuse at the hands of one or both parents, there’s a greater-risk that you’ll find an abusive partner because that’s what’s normal and secure to you. That or you’ll grow up the opposite, aka a codependent.

DUH, Freud.

Candle_Jacqueline · 2021-05-28T19:58:49+00:00

I've always thought that the "Oedipus complex" (which is such a poor name for it, Oedipus literally stabbed his eyes out when he discovered he'd been fucking his mom) is actually from parents projecting their own preferences for a partner onto their children.

Daddy likes compliant, sweet, dependent young women, so he encourages and rewards that behavior in his daughter. That special attention leads the daughter to enjoy the company of her father more than her mother. If the mother has internalized misogyny, she will dislike those traits in her daughter, not reward her for them, and thus the relationship overall would suffer. Even worse, the mother may start to view the daughter as competition for the father's attention.

Mommy likes handsome, self confident men who care about her emotions and offers her protection, so she encourages those traits in her son, often to the point of coddling and spoiling. Just look at families where the sons are treated like princes and the daughters treated like servants. The father may start to compete with the son by denigrating the traits the mother likes, often by describing them as gay or weak. Or maybe, the father gets a vicarious ego boost by having successful, strong sons. The daughters still get treated like servants at best, and the father may even participate in the mother's hatred for the daughter as a way to stay in the mother's good graces.

So tl;dr the "Oedipus complex" isn't from kids wanting to fuck their parents, its from parents wanting to fuck their kids.

This is all assuming unhealthy family dynamics; emotional incest doesn't happen in healthy families. Trying to project this specific dynamic onto EVERYONE is just....icky.

dr_mcstuffins · 2021-05-28T22:07:53+00:00

People also mess up a normal, and important, developmental stage for their kids: when the little child develops feelings for the opposite sex parent (I’m not familiar with what happens for LGBTQ+ kids so add on if you know).

Little kids are flirts. It’s super innocent and cute - things like drawing pictures for their caregiver, showing favoritism, tons of smiles, following like a puppy, seeking physical affection - cute kid stuff. They’ll say things like “when I grow up, I want to marry daddy.” This is normal and the correct response is “marriage is for grown ups and one day you’ll find a special person who can be all for you!” You’re supposed to be warm but deflect gently.

Messed up parents will take the overtures of their child more literally. Sometimes it doesn’t go further than enmeshment/codependency or covert/emotional ~~investment~~ incest, but some go much further and then blame the child for being seductive, which is impossible as it’s not a feeling children are capable of. That’s a 100% adult concept and it’s predatory to ascribe it to anyone who is too young.

Freud can get fucked. He was SUPER obsessed with his own mother and was a raging coke addict. He’s just one more white man who messed up the world and left it worse than he found it.

MarieCurvy · 2021-05-28T21:15:07+00:00

I remember when I told my psychiatrist about how as a young girl while I was playing videogames with my male cousins, they would start touching my shoulders and kissing them.

She said "Oh but that's common, you weren't actually traumatized by that, right?" I felt so empty and stupid.

At that time I didn't knew what my cousin was doing and I just kept playing. I also didn't knew what was happening when one of my older cousins locked me up in my room with another older male cousin , all while my mom was in the house. She always defended them. I was only 5 yo. I can't remember if he took my virginity. But that memorie in my head would always made me dissociate and derealize from my present everysince up until my 18 yo.

I love psychology and what I most love about it are the professionals destigmatizing so many erroneous theories and concepts.

vforvendetta87 · 2021-05-28T16:16:35+00:00

Women. Such mysterious creatures. 🙄

fiery_woman · 2021-05-28T16:53:51+00:00

Holy shit. I want to read that original paper, and I’m also so fucking mad.

keep_my_stuff · 2021-05-28T22:54:46+00:00

Polish-Swiss psychologist Alice Miller was the person who took childhood abuse seriously and criticized Freud for his switcheroo. I highly recommend her book "For your own good" for the CSA themes and 'the drama of the gifted child' as her most poignant and succinct work (small book that packs a punch about the roots of people pleasing/fawning)

Lady_Agatha_Mallowan · 2021-05-28T15:48:44+00:00

Freud definitely betrayed his patients when he abandoned the trauma theory of hysteria in favor of the "drive theory."

Interesting note, though, Freud also diagnosed himself with hysteria. In many ways he had very similar symptoms to his patients. He came up with the theory of the Oedipus Complex after seeing a play about Oedipus and recognizing himself in the character of Oedipus (making Freud himself the first person ever to be diagnosed with an Oedipus Complex!).

The psychologist Alice Miller theorized that the reason Freud abandoned the trauma theory in favor of the drive theory of hysteria was that he himself may have been a victim of childhood sexual abuse. Most victims of childhood sexual abuse and/or incest cannot accept or even begin to work through what has happened to them without the support of a therapist -- and since Freud was the founder of modern therapy and trained all the analysts who came after him, there was no one he could go to for therapy!

So her theory was that Freud denied the reality of the sexual abuse of his patients because he could not accept the reality of the abuse he himself may have gone through. And our society eagerly bought in, it was a very convenient theory because really nobody wants to acknowledge the reality of incest or sexual abuse. Which still sucks a lot, because Lundy Bancroft is right, that denial was handed down to generations of analysts who came after him and caused incalculable harm to thousands of survivors.

If you are interested in reading more I recommend Alice Miller's books, the one with the theory I mention is Thou Shalt Not Be Aware, but Drama of the Gifted Child is more well-known.

ilovesanddollars · 2021-05-28T21:36:43+00:00

Basically the beginning of gaslighting.

fiercefinance · 2021-05-28T22:06:23+00:00

Ugh this is infuriating to read.

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