What's the idea in politics around virginity?

Demasii · 2023-05-01T14:38:43+00:00

Virginity is a marker that is correlated with unattractive attributes with men.

That's really it. People who are strongly influenced by and promote stereotypes going "ew you're a virgin" are trash.

ChadChasingB · 2023-05-01T14:14:03+00:00

Different people have different values. It's the same with men choosing partners. Some won't care about her body count and others will care. For me he has to be a virgin waiting for religious reasons. He can't be someone that has tried and failed and I don't want a partner that doesn't have experience with relationships in his mid 20's when I am looking for "the one".

RadicalQueenBee · 2023-05-01T14:42:32+00:00

It depends on the guy. If he's a good looking guy with a pleasant personality, I will automatically assume his being a virgin is a choice and could see it as neutral or potentially a plus. If he's like over 26, 27 years old and a virgin, and he's not that good looking/pleasant, I could see it as something weird but in the end if I was attracted to him it would not turn me off I believe. Many men who don't have the looks or the personality to attract women even for something casual will resort to being manipulative or deceptive regarding their intentions. Imo a virgin man is much less of an issue than a man with a medium to high body count who is a liar or a manipulator. Given that lying and manipulating are both very easy to pull off for most people, I'd assume he's a virgin due to unfortunate circumstances and also due to not being a piece of shit and wouldn't focus on that as long as I liked him otherwise.

RainbowHydrangeas · 2023-05-01T13:59:30+00:00

It’s not an issue until you’re 25 and have no experience. That points to a mental or physical issue.

BullfrogKind5123 · 2023-05-01T15:07:19+00:00

Male virginity is a proxy for red flags at a certain age, there is this season of the bachelor where this handsome twink was famously a virgin and was looking for a serious connection, so all chicks were wet and excited, but then he married a dude. How do you live your life for thirty years and don’t convince a woman once to sleep with you? What’s wrong with you? If he passes on opportunities - why? It’s just so uncommon that somebody elects to be a virgin that a girl would probably want an explanation.

My now husband was a virgin when we met but he comes from an extremely religious stupidly tradcon background so he would do this thing where he’d invite tinder dates over and be all confused when they pushed for sex because in his world premarital sex, and especially sex with strangers didn’t exist. He ended up penetrating me before marriage and now his family doesn’t talk to him 😟

1Here4Bach · 2023-05-01T15:32:21+00:00

Like many things in dating, it’s not the virginity, It’s what the virginity implies. We all know, as soon as puberty hits the vast majority of males try to lose their virginity as soon as possible.

So what does a 28 year old male being a virgin tell us? It tells us he’s gone 15 years trying to get sex and no women will have him. So if no other women believe he has any redeemable traits, then odds are he probably doesn’t.

Now I know what the response will be. You’ll say “well women, only chase Chad anyway as a result they ignore good guys with good traits and those good guys end up being 30 year old virgins.” To that I say bullshit.

There are virtually no males who are 30 year old virgins. These days the average male will end up losing his virginity in college 18-22. All of these males aren’t “Chad”. Many of them are average looking “good guys”. To get to your late 20’s - early 30’s and still be a virgin you have to be a very unique kind of weird, asocial or awkward. This is a red flag for every woman. The only excusable excuse that I think most women will be okay with is if you’re a virgin for religious reasons or that you’re just voluntary celibate on purpose.

januaryphilosopher · 2023-05-01T14:46:00+00:00

Of course, it depends on the people involved, but in general how many sexual partners someone has had tells you quite important things about their values, beliefs and how compatible you may be. The difference between zero and not zero can be particularly important, especially as people tend to prefer partners on the same side of zero. Preferences vary and the importance people put on these preferences vary, but people tend to care at least a bit that it's in whatever their preferred number range is. And of course, people generally don't like their partners to lie to them, especially about things they find important. I haven't seen anyone advise another to lie about it so much as point out that if they did lie, nobody would be able to tell.

HobbitShaker88 · 2023-05-01T17:51:42+00:00

I have dated several virgins and none of them told me upfront either, they sprung it on me months after dating.

I care more about having dating experience than sex experience because sex can be learned and each guy is different anyway- men who havent dated at all tend to be so much work and you have to have the patience of a saint and often serve as a rehab center. One thing I did note though with male virgins- alot of men want to have sex with multiple women and even if the first woman they sleep with is perfect for them they will feel like they are missing out. Of course they dont know they will end up hurting the woman so if you ask them about it, they arent going to admit it because many of them dont even know they will do it. Very few men dont have this mindset, so that was a worry of mine. I had no interest in being a starter girlfriend and being your sexual guinea pig.

Also many of them became insecure I wasnt a virgin, even though I have never been promiscuous and only slept with men I dated for awhile. (Have had many call me prude in fact) Thats another thing to have to deal with.

MistyMaisel · 2023-05-01T16:46:34+00:00

I think for most of us, it really depends why he's a virgin, what his sexual expectations are, how he's interacted with sexual stuff in the past, and so forth.

So like, why is he a virgin? Is it because of religion? Is it because of sexual trauma? Is it because he has romantic ideals about the one or respecting himself? Is it because he can't give that shit away fast enough? This is pretty easy to discern what people will think. If it is religion, then a girl will probably have to share that value or he needs to be leaving religion and then she has to be willing to work through that with him. If it's sexual trauma, she'll probably need a lot of patience and empathy and be willing to work through that with him (I think most women would be pretty kind about this one). If it's romantic ideals, then is she willing to accept the pressure of this romantic image? (A lot of girls would be, a lot wouldn't depending on how long the relationship has been going for). If it is the final reason, there's a good chance we're going to see this as a yellow or red flag. This is just common-sense. Desperation is always a bad look and what went wrong in the past to make someone so desperate?

What are his sexual expectations? I think we all know a virgin dude who because of porn and too long in his own myopic bubble wants to go from making out to like bondage anal gaping and beating the shit of a woman in a school-girl dress while she wears an octopus mask on her head. And that is a holy shit no thank you situation. Lots of dudes wanna run marathons before they can walk. And ain't no girl wanna be some virgin porn-addled dude's test facility for every fucked up hot thing he's ever seen. And the issue is, this type of virgin dude is becoming more and more common and usually lacks the self-awareness god gave trees to know that's just not reasonable as expectations go.

The interaction in the past is part of this point, but runs a little deeper. How does he see women? How does he see sex? What are his goals when having sex? What does it mean to him? What does he think you having sex with him means and will mean for the future? How much porn is he watching, how does he seem like he views masturbation? How does he seem to view relationships? How much can he communicate and honestly? What did his past attempts at relationships and sex look like? I think a lot of dudes out here struggling are doing so because they see women as spectral mermaid markers of success that exist to torment them, until they inevitably serve the man. No bueno.

Finally, there's just the nuts and bolts of sex. You'd think you can teach anyone, but because men (especially virgin men) have so much ego and identity built into sex (not saying women don't, it's just a little different), it can be incredibly hard to criticize and teach them. They've spent their life being told by Porn that women are basically pleased by anything they do (even shit that anyone with a brain can see is not pleasing the woman at all). Could you maybe eventually teach this guy how to get you off and what is fun? Sure. But that's a tall order indeed. And if you're a woman of 25-30, you're looking to settle down in most cases, not go back to high-school with a guy fumbling around and pretending to himself what he's doing is fun for you.

Does this mean any of these dudes are bad people? That's really hard to say. Probably not. They're more just tragedies of a media diet and worldview which inherently destroys their ability to form attachments and mutually fulfilling relationships. Very few of them have struck me as evil or awful inside.

As for why is lying upsetting? That's super simple. Lying is wrong. Lying destroys any smart person's ability to trust you. Especially if it is done for CLEARLY self-serving reasons. There's a difference between telling your gran that her casserole is delicious when it isn't (white lie for gran's benefit) and telling a girl you aren't a virgin when you are (your benefit).

volleyballbeach · 2023-05-01T18:00:01+00:00

a lot of girls will say

at the same time I know so many girls

Some girls want different things than others … not all have the same desires. This “phenomena” is simply different people want different things.

Relative_Bee8356 · 2023-05-01T19:54:04+00:00

Older virgins are a higher difficulty setting. Most people their age have a certain amount of sexual and relationship experience that makes them a little "easier" -- you communicate your preferences but you don't have to teach them the same way. You also don't have to deal with their feelings of inadequacy and FOMO.

I know a queer person who specifies "ten years out of the closet and dating queer people" as the absolute bare minimum for the people they date. Not hard to find at their age, but y'all would be tearing your hair out and screaming if a straight cis woman in her mid-thirties demanded ten years of dating experience.

The thing about lying is this -- it takes responsibility off your partner. She's not going to have to worry so much about your feelings and about trying to make your first time good. If she finds some of your behavior immature, or you're bad in bed, she's not going to feel the need to give you a bunch of second chances. If you fake it well and later reveal the truth, she's unlikely to be all that upset because the thing that really mattered was not your actual previous experience, but her experience dating you.

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Glass_Bucket · 2023-05-01T15:35:58+00:00

Women know it's harder for men to get laid than it is for women, so why do they treat male virginity as some sort of red flag? If something requires significant effort to achieve, we should not be chastising someone who hasn't done said thing.

literaryhogwartian · 2023-05-01T17:05:34+00:00

I didn't care if someone was a virgin. I did care if they had ever had one night's stands or had had lots of partners

14ers4days · 2023-05-02T20:12:56+00:00

I don't think women really talk about male virginity much if at all. It's more the opposite. The whole concept was invented by men to judge the "purity" of women anyway.

itsdolcekay · 2023-05-03T04:49:03+00:00

I don’t understand what you’re asking. And I don’t understand what politics has to do with anything.

What I can tell you is that my virginity was gifted to man who was older than me and I chose him because he made me feel safe and he was very gentle.

The first time is actually a bit painful, your flesh is literally torn into and you bleed a little. I guess this is why some women don’t want some horny virgin guy dealing with them.

My first was very gentle. He tore my hymen on the first day and let me just process what had happened. Then the next day we tried again and it was the best sex I’ve ever had in my life.

Years later I did have sex with a virgin guy he was only 18, but he was really really big and so his lack of experience wasn’t a big deal at all. Still had to take it slow though

I think the most important things to us when it comes to virginity is sense of safety emotional security and patience and respect on both sides.

itsdolcekay · 2023-05-03T04:50:20+00:00

I also just recently spoke with a 27 yo male who was an abstinent virgin. Granted our conversation did at times devolve into flirting, I found myself listing after him.. I don’t have any hang ups about male virgins especially the older ones

I_DRINK_ANARCHY · 2023-05-03T21:53:24+00:00

I personally have never had sex with a virgin, and I never wanted to. I'm not a huge fan of teaching in general, so having to show a dude the ins and outs of the female body in general on top of what I specifically like is just not my idea of a good time.

Maybe it's possible that there was a guy I would have been willing to be their first with, if there was a strong enough chemistry and desire, but I have always preferred a dude with experience.

I don't think there is anything wrong with not having sex. It's not a moral or personal failing to be a virgin as a guy or gal, it doesn't say anything about how they'd be in bed in the future. I've just never been the right person for popping someone's proverbial cherry.

Title	What's the idea in politics around virginity?
Author	Bittersteel1818
Upvotes	10
Comments	104
Date	May 1, 2023 1:46 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/134mxzp/whats_the_idea_in_politics_around_virginity/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/whats-the-idea-in-politics-around-virginity.1217437 https://theredarchive.com/post/1217437

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