My English teacher believes in the .77 on the dollar myth, what can I do to enlighten him? Should I even pursue this or just let it go?

driver1676 · 2012-10-02T20:11:11+00:00

"If it were true, it would be a much better financial decision for the school to fire you and hire a woman instead."

Jo3M3tal · 2012-10-02T22:23:09+00:00

Stuff like this

http://i.imgur.com/sVKCr.jpg

and

http://i.imgur.com/80L7O.png

Are only helping to erode your argument. You are evoking an emotional response based on anecdotal evidence which is not only bad science, but makes your argument look selfish and immature.

He also said that women who work in the same field in the same job with the same hours make less then men do.

There are a few things I want to talk about here. He learned this because it most definitely was unarguably true at some point. Is it still true? Maybe, but that isn't the point. He is arguing that results imply cause, which isn't the case. You need to point out that there are more factors involved, and that one to one ratios of male to female income is impossible (you can't get two measured values to every be exactly equal) and not necessarily desired. Men and women should be treated equal, but if there is a gender that excels in specific work more than the other, you shouldn't want both genders to do just as well (because that would mean you would have to discriminate against the gender that naturally excels).

You should also point out that treating women like they need help puts them in a disadvantage, and only further exacerbate gender inequality (which is bad for everyone). Try to convince him instead that we don't need "feminism" or "mens rights", we need gender equality, and that by discriminating along gender lines to end discrimination along gender lines is silly.

ELTepes · 2012-10-02T20:39:39+00:00

You're referring to him as teacher so I'm going to assume you're in highschool. At this level, don't engage him about it. You won't win and he will make you suffer for arguing. If you feel that what he said was improper, speak to your parents, principal, and/or counselor about it. If he continues to engage you about it, continue to report. If he becomes vicious or starts demanding you agree with him, tell him you're feeling uncomfortable by his actions and will report him for harassment.

Follow through with that. Don't make threats, make promises. Society will not lean that these things are not okay until we stand up to them. He's just like any other bully

FireTruth · 2012-10-02T22:44:36+00:00

when i was 11 years old.... a female teacher forced all the boys to pull out chairs for girls then push them in as they sat.

becuase it showed men how to "respect women"

i let it go on for 3 days.... no one said anything... i did.

i said... thats sexist

the teacher looked at me 0.0

"sexist?" she said

i said "ya thats sexist, i dont want to pull out chair for girls"

i looked around.... most of the girls had there head bowed in shame... (i guess most girls even knew it was sexist at such a young age?)

a few of the guys had there head bowed in shame...

2 or 3 boys nooded there head yes with me.

the teacher thought about it..... ... thought about it some more.

then said... "ok... well lets have the girls oull our the chairs for the boys today"

i didnt want that.... i just wanted it to stop....

i went ahead and let the best looking girl in my class to pull out and push in my chair for me... and in my mind called it even and hoped everything would stop from there.

hoping this would be the end of it for the boys and girls

and that was the last time it was mentioned.

one person stood up for eqaul rights and common sense... and the teacher relented.

so... i say you should stand up to your teacher..... its lies that these that cuase women to get sexist special treatment in the first place.

i would make one reasonable well argued stament that sums it all up.

"just becuase women make less, does not mean its due to discrimnation.... there are lots of reasons why women might make less then men.... like how so many of them stay at home with kids"

shonmao · 2012-10-02T19:39:55+00:00

I would say that your English teacher is very much entrenched in feminist ideology. I would say it would be a better use of your time to spend time with your other teacher.

bikemaul · 2012-10-02T19:36:29+00:00

A logical argument often won't be fairly received. Keep in mind that teachers are fallible and very often biased/sheltered. Also, the field is not a big draw for the best and the brightest. Good luck.

LupoBorracio · 2012-10-02T22:13:38+00:00

http://i.imgur.com/iHnr6.jpg

This man got a woman pregnant and decided not to be a father; he's a selfish, inhumane, deadbeat dad.

Well, it depends how he goes about deciding to not be a father. Is it him running away from the situation (possibly a state away) or is it him sitting down with his girlfriend/wife/lover and trying to come to some sort of compromise of having an abortion, adoption, etc?

Same thing goes for the girl, too. She's not pro-choice if she runs from the situation. Though, the side with the girl implies that she's just having an abortion.

getthefuckoutofhere · 2012-10-02T19:33:04+00:00

He openly said that the Duke lacrosse players were guilty and that he knew more than me.

he's an irrational scumbag. trying to convince him otherwise would be like trying to convince a frothy-mouthed republican that Obama wasn't born in Kenya.

avoid engaging just like you would with a woman who believes all men are out to rape her and her kids. nothing to gain, plenty to lose.

Hamakua · 2012-10-02T19:33:11+00:00

Easily thwarted

You can either refer to the United States Department of Labor's commissioning of the Consad Report.

Or just link him to a video explaining it in short.

I don't have the links, but I am pretty sure Forbes and the Economist have written about it.

[Edit]

Mainstream media and financial institutions all agree with the above and don't dispute it. It is feminists, and only feminists, who still perpetuate the myth while blindly ignoring evidence to the contrary.

2012-10-03T00:33:44+00:00

thanks for the links. i am fairly new to this subreddit. these links will help out a ton with debates

ErasmusMRA · 2012-10-03T01:38:08+00:00

Pick your battles. If he taught women's studies for six years, these are some very deeply held beliefs which won't respond to logic and evidence. Instead it will be treated as an attack on him and his position of authority, and he will attack you in turn. People like that are very good at attacking using their authority -- some of them had 30 or 40 years of practice.

bigexplosion · 2012-10-02T21:23:55+00:00

People who know that number believe in that number and will not be shaken. President Obama said it within the last year. Just point out that 93% of workplace deaths are men. As if you would want a 25% raise for a 10 fold increase in chance of getting killed for that paycheck. Or ask him and a woman to spend a week homeless and compare the outcome.

But really it's not worth risking your grade.

TracyMorganFreeman · 2012-10-02T20:09:23+00:00

I forgot to add his talk about how history is too much of HIStory, not HERstory, I said it was cheesy and he asked if I thought WR was a joke.

trecol · 2012-10-02T19:43:56+00:00

I don't know if a lot of people will agree with me, but you should let it go. People who have believed one thing for long enough won't be easy to change, and in a teacher-student relationship, guess who is going to be the one to suffer?

funnyfaceking · 2012-10-02T21:51:03+00:00

My history teacher kept insisting that Hong Kong was not an island, but I had been there and he hadn't. It took me years to realize that it just wasn't that important.

My first reaction when I read the OP's post was similar. Gender issues have nothing to do with English. Stick to understanding what a metaphor is.

It does suck that he keeps introducing off-topic things, feminists and queer theory people tend to do that, so I guess you might be better off arguing the shit out of this guy and if he tries to punish you, complain to the principal. It's his own damn fault. He's wasting the student's time.

MechPlasma · 2012-10-02T19:56:23+00:00

The simple counter-argument to something like this is to point out that that .77 statistic doesn't factor in personal choices, like child-caring. When they say that it's been shown that that doesn't make too much of a difference, say "If you really know what the actual statistic is, then why aren't you quoting it, instead of this 77% one that you know is wrong"?

...buuut I have doubts that that'll work in this case. He sounds like the stubborn type. Still, you should probably say something just for the sake of the rest of your classmates.

NorA_ChuGa · 2012-10-02T22:48:26+00:00

Ask him how it was possible for one of the accused lacrosse players to literally break the laws of time and space to be both raping someone and getting money out of an ATM several miles away at the same time.

2012-10-03T01:33:16+00:00

Honestly, I'd ask him why, since he thinks men are so evil, hasn't he committed suicide yet to rid the world of his evil penis.

2012-10-03T01:53:54+00:00

I say engage him in debate, but keep it civil and respectful. If he's taking it too far or using up class time for imposing his feminist beliefs, then you can make a complaint about him. People like him are in a position to influence students. His opinion on this subject probably won't change. But, if you can get him to think about how he approaches this subject in his lessons, then you've done a great thing.

ThePigman · 2012-10-03T03:03:33+00:00

He sounds like a lunatic. Pick your fights wisely, lest you get your ass kicked. This turd sounds like a moron but he is a moron with the power to give you shit grades -- best drop it and wait till you are in a stronger position.

2012-10-03T05:49:57+00:00

Report him for sexism.

bertdavis69 · 2012-10-03T14:34:11+00:00

It's best not to argue with a fool. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Mark Twain

youngcaesar420 · 2012-10-03T16:26:50+00:00

You sent him political cartoons? He's not going to take you seriously, and in fact will think you're some sort of idiot - congratulations.

Innominate8 · 2012-10-02T20:42:05+00:00

Antagonizing your teacher is not a good idea. You're not going to change his mind, only make an enemy of a person in a good position to punish you for disagreeing with them.

The lesson to take away from this is that teachers are just people who are as likely as anyone else to hold irrational beliefs. Write him off and move on.

2012-10-02T19:56:26+00:00

Fight it brother. You have no business being an MRA unless you take it to the streets. Think of the way Hitch eviscerated the irrational fundies with his well reasoned argument. Only with debate can we hope to defeat feminism.

2012-10-02T21:19:25+00:00

Kudos to you for spreading the word. A lot of people have been entrenched in feminist ideology for years, decades even, and would be very hard to convince otherwise. I doubt he will concede anything, someone who taught womens studies for 6 years, they will pretty much know that they are right and perform mental gymnastics to make any new information fit into their pre-existing mindset or ideology.

But it's good to expose people to mens rights, at least it will get him thinking. If he has decent critical thinking skills then he may reconsider his position somewhat.

mythin · 2012-10-02T20:08:57+00:00

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505125_162-28246928/the-gender-pay-gap-is-a-complete-myth/

Penis_de_Castor · 2012-10-02T21:06:55+00:00

Don't waste your time with him.

SCCROW · 2012-10-02T21:11:02+00:00

Do not waste your time.

YOU CANNOT UNSCRAMBLE AN EGG.

SSJAmes · 2012-10-03T05:53:26+00:00

Add this to the wage gap myth section.

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d09279.pdf

2012-10-03T10:06:51+00:00

It's abc or cbs that has a web article that uses President Obama's own Department of Labor's recent Study by a Professor to demonstrate it is a myth.

It is, however, very interesting how Obama's department presents the graphics misleading to keep the myth alive.

There's a post on this sub that link directly to the page.

Baridi · 2012-10-07T02:04:51+00:00

Just call him a beta male and be on with your life.

rightsbot · 2012-10-02T19:24:18+00:00

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frederickharttt · 2012-10-02T20:25:58+00:00

Don't bother. Just knowing he is a teacher tells it all. He is no go getter and never will be. When you run into people like this. Go through them or around them. Don't waste your valuable time and blood pressure. Do you work and then forget the panty-waist of a dude.

FireTruth · 2012-10-02T22:33:35+00:00

women work less them men on a country wide scale.... natrualy they will make less money on a country wide scale.

if a man and a women get a job as a cashier at mcdonalds... they get paid the same.

now for a manager job... there are all sorts of reasons a man might make more

he works longer hours.

he works more days a week

he has more abbilitys suited to the job

he is more decicated to the job, less held back by family.

then he might make more then another female manager

Dehast · 2012-10-03T02:43:25+00:00

I'm just a visitor and I only read the Facebook discussion... You failed to convey your opinion in a pacific way, and the whole thing turned to aggression. Approaching things in a different way could've made the girl understand your point better :P

Title	My English teacher believes in the .77 on the dollar myth, what can I do to enlighten him? Should I even pursue this or just let it go?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	165
Comments	111
Date	October 2, 2012 7:23 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/10ty9r/my_english_teacher_believes_in_the_77_on_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/my-english-teacher-believes-in-the-77-on-the.1012221 https://theredarchive.com/post/1012221

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