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Banning circumcision of ALL males is anti-semitism. /s

[deleted]

June 27, 2012
68 upvotes
/r/MensRights

And so begins the attack of Child Circumcision Apologists against male rights....

  1. European Jewish Association denounces German court ruling against circumcision as ‘brutal attack on freedom of religion’

  2. ADL: German Parliament Should Act To Protect Circumcision As Religious Practice

  3. Bris Ban Raises Specter of German Hate

  4. War on Circumcision Spreads to Germany, Norway

  5. Outraged German Jews slam court for prohibiting circumcision

  6. 'Germany must pass law to protect circumcision'

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Post Information
Title Banning circumcision of ALL males is anti-semitism. /s
Author

[deleted]

Upvotes 68
Comments 142
Date June 27, 2012 7:16 AM UTC
(14 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/vobed/banning_circumcision_of_all_males_is_antisemitism/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/banning-circumcision-of-all-males-is-anti-semitism.1019029
https://theredarchive.com/post/1019029

Comments

[–][deleted] 33 points34 points35 points 14 years ago (38 children) | Copy Link

Can someone please explain to me why "STOP FUCKING MUTILATING CHILDREN" is somehow anti-Semitic?

[–]kragmoor 24 points25 points26 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

it's a jewish ritual, jews and germans have an awkward history. anything germans do that might harm jewish culture makes you literally hitler

[–]klonozopanour -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

it's a jewish ritual, jews and GOYIM have an awkward history. anything GOYIM do that might harm jewish culture makes you literally hitler

FTFY

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Because the jewish tradition of circumcision is specifically performed when the child is 8 days old.

*note that I do not agree with this practice, I am just providing information as to why waiting until the child can consent is not in consideration in the religious tradition

[–]iongantas 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, without his authorization, and is a violation of his person, human rights and bodily integrity. They have no right no impose such a thing on a person in the name of religion.

[–]Peter_Principle_ 8 points9 points10 points 14 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Rationally, it's not but you're dealing with religious beliefs. They are the very antithesis of rational thinking.

[–]Up_to_11 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

so brave

[–]Peter_Principle_ 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Did I hit a little close to home there? : )

[–]Up_to_11 -5 points-4 points-3 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

No...lul. I am an atheist. You are an arrogant jerk. I can live with that.

[–]Peter_Principle_ 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

so brave

[–]Up_to_11 -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

i don't think that means what you think that means

[–]Peter_Principle_ 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Not exactly the smartest turd in the toilet bowl, are ya.

[–]kol15 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"so brave" is most often used in a sarcastic manner on this website, the more you know

He used it the first time sarcastically remarking that knocking on religion was the status quo on reddit

[+][deleted] 14 years ago* (25 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]soylentcoleslaw 10 points11 points12 points 14 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

I'm circumcised and I'd like to know what it would be like to have the rest of my penis. I was christian and I was circumcised "just because". You don't speak for me, and your false analogy is ridiculous. Dentists try to make sure you keep your teeth intact. Circumcision insures that a boy will never be intact for the rest of his life. If anyone is delusional, it's you.

[+][deleted] 14 years ago* (11 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Bearmodule 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Just so you know, a lot of pleasure in sex is removed by circumcising a guy. And for what purpose? Religion, or because it's the social norm. I said in my other reply that there is no problem if it's to protect the child's health.

Visiting a doctor: you are sick, you want to get better. Visiting a dentist: you want to make sure your teeth are protected/fix something with them.

Circumcision: no real health benefits on most people, on most people this is only done for religious reasons/the parents chose it.

There, I justified the other two without justifying circumcision.

[+][deleted] 14 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Bearmodule 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

20 out of of 100,157 (0.02%) circumcised boys got UTIs, compared with 88 out of 35,929 (0.244%) intact boys. If circumcising the 35,929 boys would have reduced the incidence from 0.244% to 0.02% (7 boys), the Number Needed to Treat is 35,929/(88-7) = 444 circumcisions to prevent one UTI.

444 children would need to be circumcised to stop one of them from getting a UTI.

It causes a dramatic decrease in UTIs, however it causes a dramatic increase in hemorrhage, infections from the procedure, etc. There is a .05% reduced chance that your son will be perfectly healthy afterwards.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

These rationalizations for circumcision are all ex post facto, in a way.

The main thing is to circumcise, for whatever reasons there may be for that, and stated reasons are somewhat secondary.

Like the Jews, for instance. I sense that their lobbying is because they are told to do so in a book, and that the supposed health effects are excuses to convince the goyim.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, well, well... long time no see.

[–]klonozopanour 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No.

[–]Tom_from_Accounting 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Troll throw away account i see? Have fun with that.

[–]soylentcoleslaw 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I pity your sad, ignorant, anger-filled life.

[+][deleted] -6 points-5 points-4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Upvote. Retards crying about their circumcision is the result of extremely well-off pieces of shit who need to feel persecuted so they can have something to whine about without any real problems.

[–]klonozopanour 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Wow, just wow.

Next will you tell me the best time to take out a child's eyesight is when they're a child because they'll never know what it's like to see, therefore it's okay?

Fuck you.

Go back to cutting up children you sick fuck.

[+][deleted] 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]klonozopanour 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

don't worry champ.

death threats over the internet are definitely the mark of a true tough guy.

[+][deleted] 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]klonozopanour 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

can you actually try to make me angry

or are you just going to see how many insults you can string together in hopes that one of them actually gets an emotional reaction out of me

either way, you're amusing sport

[–]Bearmodule 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

There's a difference between doing it for health reasons, and doing it for religious/personal reasons.

[+][deleted] 14 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Bearmodule 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

No. In some cases it's for health reasons, perfectly okay. What is not okay is for the parents or the religion to dictate whether or not this kid keeps a part of his own body, without him being able to have a say in the matter. As I say though, if the kid is unable to decide for himself and it is for medical reasons only then there should be no problem.

[+][deleted] 14 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Bearmodule 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It should not be a parent's choice whether or not their child has a piece of his dick cut off.

The procedure can cause a child to get an infection and sometimes cause death. The procedure can cause the child to hemorrhage, and sometimes cause death. It is incredibly painful for the child. It causes a loss of sensitivity in the penis. It creates ugly scar tissue. The wound can reopen as an adult. It can cause erections to become very painful. It can cause psychological damage.

Furthermore,

20 out of of 100,157 (0.02%) circumcised boys got UTIs, compared with 88 out of 35,929 (0.244%) intact boys. If circumcising the 35,929 boys would have reduced the incidence from 0.244% to 0.02% (7 boys), the Number Needed to Treat is 35,929/(88-7) = 444 circumcisions to prevent one UTI.

444 children would need to be circumcised to stop one of them from getting a UTI.

Adding to that,

For 100,157 circumcised boys, there were 193 complications (0.19%). These included 62 local infections, eight cases of bacteremia, 83 incidences of hemorrhage (31 requiring ligature and three requiring transfusion), 25 instances of surgical trauma, and 20 urinary tract infections.

I personally would not cut off a piece of my son's penis to reduce the chance of a UTI, while increasing the chance for hemorrhage, and all of the things I listed above.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wait, what did I miss?

Was it really good trolling or just the amateurish 4chan stuff?

[–]arch4non 38 points39 points40 points 14 years ago (57 children) | Copy Link

It doesn't matter what your religion is, ritualistic mutilation is not okay.

[–]ignatiusloyola 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (52 children) | Copy Link

Oh I feel like playing Devil's advocate...

One of the "coming of age" activities of girls is piercing their ears. That is a form of mutilation. Let's ban that next.

And why is it that ritual has anything to do with it being bad? Would a non-ritualistic circumcision be okay? Really, we should be banning all mutilation... piercings, gauging, breast implants, surgeries... /s

To be consistent and avoid being hypocritical, we need to establish that this is about choice. If someone chooses to be circumcised later in their life, then that is their choice just like gauging their ears or getting some plastic surgery done.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points19 points 14 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

The only issue is choice. No one gives a shit if you get circumcised, have your appendix removed, or have your ears pierced. Just don't force it on babies that have no means of objecting to the procedure. This is a human rights issue.

[–]unicock 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Haing your appendix removed should really not be a choice for babies. Appendicitis can be fatal.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Yes, but should appendectomies be forced on every single child? That is the real issue here.

[+][deleted] 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]girlwriteswhat 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good grief, you should have named yourself atheishiiiiit.

[–]girlwriteswhat 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Surgery can be fatal, especially on a newborn. Having your appendix removed as a preventive measure while neonatal is retarded.

[–]ignatiusloyola -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That is what I was getting at.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I saw your /s tag, but the preceding seemed to be an earnest arguement, particularly because you brought up socially accepted things as well as surgery. I agree that bodily integrity should be a fundamental right.

[+][deleted] 14 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]AryoBarzan 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

TIL all of Europe and every non-Islamic/Jewish nation aside from the United States is just an 'emotional faggot using chick logic'.

TIL that disease vaccination is the same as genital mutilation.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You shouldn't expect logic to work on homophobes and misogynist bigots.

[–]AryoBarzan 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Aye!

[+][deleted] 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

i herd u liek strawmen

[–]AryoBarzan 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol, enjoy your downvotes and impending ban, troll :)

[–]girlwriteswhat 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Better cut those fingers off before you get yourself a hangnail, asshole.

[–]arch4non 18 points19 points20 points 14 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

If you're talking about piercing the ears of a baby then I stand by my statement that any form of ritualistic mutilation is wrong. If you're talking about a bunch of teenage girls getting their ears pierced then I don't see anything wrong with that. They're free to make their own decisions.

Though, I think I see what you're getting at. We need laws to protect infants from unnecessary cosmetic surgery.

[–]ignatiusloyola 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Read the last paragraph. It should clear things up.

[–]brningpyre 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Then what was the point of your post? You're not coming up with a different situation that doesn't apply for the most important reason, and then admitting it in the last paragraph.

[–]klonozopanour 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

No no, a "coming of age" that takes place at 8-14 is kind of hugely different than a "coming of age" ceremony that happens WHEN YOU COME OUT OF THE FUCKING WOMB AND HAVE NO ABILITY TO VOICE YOUR OPINION ON HOW YOU'D LIKE YOUR PENIS MUTILATED.

[–]ignatiusloyola -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

RAWR! You should get angry at someone who made the same point as you! GRAWR!

[–]klonozopanour 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I...

the same...

uh...

I BLAME THE COUGH SYRUP MANG.

[–]ignatiusloyola 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

:)

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think you nailed this on the head for me. I have no problem for young girls (10+) wanting to get their ears pierced. I am sure by that age they are going to understand that it will hurt. I feel the same about circumcision. Though i'd imagine if you try to talk young boys into the fashion of getting the tip of their penis chopped they would just look at you funny.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

1) Ear piercings are not permanent

2) they are in an area where you feel little, if any, pain

3) They are usually old enough to consent to having this process done

I have upvoted you despite disagreeing with you because you are adding to the discussion, and not doing anything that would engender a downvote.

Reddiquette, people.

[–]girlwriteswhat 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They do not remove highly functional and specialized tissue. Or any tissue at all, for that matter.

[–]ignatiusloyola 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Are you sure you read everything I said? (As I am sure others aren't.)

I very specifically said that this needs to be about choice (thus consent). Performing such acts on a child is wrong because the child doesn't consent. But adults can make their own decisions about their own bodies.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I feel a little stupid now, I didn't see the /s.

[–]eberkimer 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Yet when ears are pierced, if no earrings are worn for a time, the hole will close. Foreskin will not grow back.

To borrow the phrase, "my body, my choice" should rule the day in circumcision.

Edit: I'm in agreement with you.

[–]Yojimara 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Religious circumcision is outlawed, not medically necessary circumcision, or circumcision by choice.

[–]ignatiusloyola 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

That seems silly. Which overrides - religious motivation or choice? It can be choice for religious reasons...

[–]Yojimara 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Choice motivated by religion can be very dangerous. Remember, someone decided to start the Crusades. And the Inquisition. And Jihadism.

[–]ignatiusloyola 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I think they call that a false equivalency.

A led to B, B is like C, therefore A leads to C. It is an invalid argument.

I am atheist, but I hold myself to a higher standard of arguing.

[–]Yojimara 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

This isn't that at all. Just four religiously motivated choices here. It doesn't matter what good religion causes. There is too much bad. Too much oppression. Too much hatred. At least, there is in ANY western religion, anyway. Christianity is by far one of the worst offenders, with Islam not far behind, if at all. When your religion PERMITS, not encourages, just ALLOWS you to hate a group of people solely because of who they are, and your government still allows the oppression and discrimination of people because of religious right hatred, you're doing it wrong. When your religion allows you to mutilate the penises of babies, you're doing it wrong. When your religious/non-religious beliefs can get you physically attacked in a school, you're doing it wrong. I can keep listing. Just because you think your standard of arguing is higher, doesn't mean you have to play devil's advocate for genital mutilation. Priorities.

[–]ignatiusloyola 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Just because you think your standard of arguing is higher, doesn't mean you have to play devil's advocate for genital mutilation.

You really need to learn to read, dude. You didn't even read my full comment and you are jumping in with all this crap.

Once upon a time r/atheism was a great place, but it is filled with angry people like you who don't know how to formulate an argument, who don't read things and understand them, and are just bent on venting their anger.

[–]Yojimara 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I get angry when people suggest that genital mutilation is okay. NO ONE ever in their life has acted like VOLUNTARY circumcision is wrong. People are forcing babies to suffer having their penises cut up and you're all "My standard is higher, /r/atheism is shit noww durrrrrrr" on /r/MensRights like any of it is relevant. It's not. All atheists don't launch attacks from /r/atheism, all feminists don't attack from /r/ShitRedditSays, you're just trying to convince people to listing to your wild opinions about choice and freedmon, man...dude...the futurewoah. The fact that religiously motivated circumcision has been outlawed means that parents aren't allowed to CHOOSE circumcision for religious reasons, which is amazing. Stop being contrary. I did read your whole comment. It was retarded. Deal with it.

[–]ignatiusloyola -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Ah, then you are just anti-rights. I get it now.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[–]Equa1 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

I understand your sentiment, but comparing e*ar pearcing to the damage sustained during circumcision is really insulting. Also, im Almost positive that the definition of mutilation specifically calls for the removal of tissue...

[+]ignatiusloyola -8 points-7 points-6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You are insulted? Really? I attacked you personally with that statement?

I am sorry. Do you want a tissue?

[–]McFeely_Smackup 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't think you understand the concept of "devil's advocate"

[–]ignatiusloyola 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't think you understand the concept of "/s"

[–]tauntaun123 -4 points-3 points-2 points 14 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Barely anything you suggested is done to a very young child incapable of coherent speech or thought. Some young childrens ears are pierced and as disgusting as it is it's also reversible.

[–]ignatiusloyola -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Are you sure you read what I said? Because I did make that very point.

[–]tauntaun123 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I hadn't been up long, sorry man.

[–]mrmacky -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I remember babysitting for a little girl, she must've been only 3 or 4 when her mom had her ears pierced.

I remember thinking it was strange, because I grew up in a household where my older sister had to pretty much fight [argue] to have her ears pierced before the age of 18.

It just irks me to the core: because doing things like this (piercing ears or religious circumcision) before age of consent, or before consent is even possible, turns your kid into a glorified fashion or religious statement.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

age of consent for ear piercing is a little extreme. I will allow my daughters to get theirs pierced whenever they want too. I have not and will not do it for them, or make that decision for them, but I'll fully support it whenever they do ask.

[–]mrmacky 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Thing is I'm fairly sure the girl didn't ask for it. It's not so much age of consent [for ear piercing], but being old enough to consent in my book. (Honestly: 4 is a young enough age that, if mom says "do you want earrings like mommy?" of course the kid is going to say yes. At least for me, at that age, my parents' word was practically gospel when it meant I got something out of the deal. Even if that something was a hole in my ear to stick cute things into.)

Because I agree wholeheartedly, my mom trying to make my older sister wait until she was 18 was just an exercise in frustration for everyone involved.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree completely, I'm not going to let my daughter get hers done at 5, but when she's 9, or 10 she will be making an informed decision. Sure, that decision might have been helped along by her peers, but it's not a huge deal to me, so having her make the decision will be just one of the things I allow her to take over for herself as she grows up.

I figure if I slowly give her more responsibility and more of a say in her own life she'll be able to make the correct decisions when she needs to. Ear piercings will just be one of many small steps towards her ultimate goal of being self sufficient.

[+][deleted] 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]AryoBarzan 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You're an idiot.

[–]girlwriteswhat 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You are a...misinformed individual, since circumcision is linked to both premature ejaculation and erectile dysfunction. It is not a 30 second procedure, but is a protracted and painful cutting with the specific (original) intention of diminishing the capacity for sexual pleasure (I'm sure if they could figure out a way for men to reproduce without being able to orgasm, JH Kellogg would have been all for it). It also diminishes sexual pleasure for women, asshole.

No idea what you're on about with diminished pleasure with frequently changing sexual partners. Sounds like grasping at strawmen to me.

[+][deleted] 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The only other use of circumcision is in extreme cases of phimosis(spelling?).

One of my childhood friends was circumcised because his foreskin was nearly entirely closed and caused great discomfort.

Religion is not a good enough reason to justify genital mutilation.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Even then you don't need Circumsision unless it's an extreme cases! (steroid cream and stretching)

[–]mrmacky 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

This is the thing that gets me, though: I quite like the aesthetics of a circumcised penis. Can't exactly fault me for having an opinion.

However, if I was given the choice? Even if I wanted a circumcision? I probably wouldn't have it done past the age of consent because of the pain and recovery process [please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that it takes a few painful weeks to heal]. So basically I'd be excluded on the count of it being an absolutely barbaric process.

Still, wish I could've been asked. And if I have a son, I'll fight so he can have that right to choose. I wouldn't force my opinions, customs, and beliefs on anyone else. Why would I force it on my own flesh and blood?

I'd love to see the process improved so that people like me, who would like to have it done outside of religious reasons, could do so without a painful recovery; but in reality I think the process will be abandoned altogether and the image of circumcision will exit popular culture and we'll all [humanity] forget it happened.

[–]Lecks 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You, I like you. Despite personal preferrence you don't allow your morality to be skewed.

[–]Jazzeki 8 points9 points10 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

my religion requires me to drink the blood of the innocent at least once a month. since it's a religious ritual i should be alowed to do it despite the moral implications and claiming otherwise is an attack against freedom!!!

[–]Lecks 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And obviously the consent of any other involved parties is not required to harvest said innocent blood, because that would clash with your religious freedom. /s

[–]WRETCHEDBEAST 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What religion do you belong to? Can I join?

[–]oneiorosgrip 7 points8 points9 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Relevant - Jews Speak Out in Favor of Banning Circumcision on Minors

There are a growing number of Jews who are becoming increasingly vocal in questioning both the ethics and the legality of circumcision. Jews in the Reform Judaism movement have already been advocating for an end to ritual circumcision during the past 180 years. What follows is a collection of statements from Jews who question the ethics and legality of forced under-age circumcision.

There are several great comments included in the post... too many and too long to quote, including some from known and famous individuals.

Bottom line of why I'm posting this: The Jewish community is not united in either supporting or opposing infant/minor male circumcision. Neither position on infant/minor male circumcision is an inherently or uniquely Jewish position. The infant/minor male circumcision controversy is not about Judaism. It's about whether or not it is ever acceptable for adults to make permanent, damaging, and medically-unnecessary modification to the bodies of minors. The act of taking either the pro or the con position on infant/minor male circumcision is not an anti-Semitic behavior or an indication of anti-Semitic attitude.

[–]Crimdusk 9 points10 points11 points 14 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Well i'm offended that we can't sacrifice children on the altar of Huitzilopochtli anymore.

Seriously... we're a civilized society, you shouldn't just go around mutilating or killing people.

[–]chavelah 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's my take on it - and I'm Jewish.

[–]ninjarxa 53 points54 points55 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I'm glad they're mad. Fuck them.

[–]oneiorosgrip 11 points12 points13 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I am not glad they're mad. I'd rather see them look at all of the facts and consider reality. Instead of mad, I'd rather see them be open-minded about the issue.

Jews Speak Out in Favor of Banning Circumcision on Minors

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Diddo!

[–]specofdust 7 points8 points9 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Ditto!

FTFY

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

oops, thanks.

[–]kanuk876 15 points16 points17 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

  1. European Jewish Association denounces German court ruling against genital mutilation as ‘brutal attack on freedom of religion’

  2. ADL: German Parliament Should Act To Protect Genital Mutilation As Religious Practice

  3. "Ritual" Genital Mutilation Ban Raises Specter of German Hate

  4. War on Genital Mutilation Spreads to Germany, Norway

  5. Outraged German Jews slam court for prohibiting genital mutilation

FTFY

[–]memymineown 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I think the point was that they continually claimed that the court was banning the circumcision of all males, not just those unable to consent.

In one of them the associated picture was even of a man getting circumcised.

[–]kanuk876 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

claimed that the court was banning the circumcision of all males

this is a common tactic of the pro-genital-mutilation camp: to distract from the real issue of the genital mutilation and torture of infants, legal minors and non-consenting victims.

[–]Gingor 12 points13 points14 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, sure, and banning female genital mutilation is anti-muslim /s

Honestly, there should be laws so you cant join a religion until you are 18 (and can look at them for yourself). And that comes from a religious person (not abrahamic).

[–]kragmoor 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

no dude i don't think you understand. this is a jewish tradition and it was banned in germany THEY AM STILL NAZ

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah germany kind goofed being the first to do this I mean it's great that they did this just since its primarily a Jewish practice and you know nazis... You can see where I'm going with this.

[–]Embogenous 20 points21 points22 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Banning slavery is racist against white people!

[–]theozoph 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

And Africans, and Arabs, and Amerindians, and Asians, and so on and so on.

Every civilization has practiced slavery at one point of their history (except perhaps very primitive tribes). Saying white people are specifically associated with it is just another form of bigotry.

I get the humor, but just saying. ;)

[–]kragmoor 8 points9 points10 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

you know what i say, fuck em

[–]Quazz 7 points8 points9 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Religion: Opposing basic human rights since the dawn of humanity

[–]Wordshark 10 points11 points12 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

An attempt was made last year to place a referendum banning circumcision on the ballot in San Francisco. But the sponsors’ use of an openly anti-Semitic Web comic book drew so much attention that critics were able to quash the effort. Though support for such measures may exist on the margins in the United States, the rising tide of anti-Semitism in Europe may have allowed this cause to drift into the mainstream. Along with other attempts to ban kosher slaughter elsewhere in Europe, the German bris ban calls into question the safety of Jews in a Western Europe where Jew-hatred often mixed with anti-Zionism has emerged from the shadows.

Though it is to be hoped this ruling will soon be overturned by joint legal efforts by Jews and Muslims, no matter what the outcome of the litigation, it must send a chill through a growing German Jewish community that has come to think of itself as immune to the dangers presented by the country’s past. They may be learning that in spite of the country’s advances, anti-Semitism never goes completely out of fashion in Germany.

Jesus tittyfucking Christ. There's nothing else that enrages me in quite the same way as people exploiting horrors and atrocities in order to leverage a victim role as in some debate. Someone doesn't like you knifing baby genitals? Holy shit, Germany's reverting to Nazism! Someone call Charles de Gaulle, Hitler must have come back! Protect John Stewart!

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

What does chopping off a piece of a baby's dick have to do with living a good life and being a good person?

I'm really missing how the two are related.

[–]theozoph 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Two things:

1) writing your religion in your son's flesh makes it indelible. It's a way to mark your children physically and psychologically as Jewish/Muslim, separating them from those that don't share the same experience/scar, and making conversion less likely (interestingly enough, Christians often found Jews and Muslims very resistant to conversion, while a lot of Christians did, and still do, convert to Islam). If you're into memetics, you could say that the rite is a persistence meme for the religious construct.

2) it diminishes male pleasure, and associates the penis with pain, which (supposedly) encourages chastity and discourages hedonist tendencies in males. I'm not sure that one really works, but it has been defended in those terms (or close) by Maimonides in the XIIth century, and the Pr. Kellog in the XIXth ... You could say they try to instill a temperance meme regarding sexual matters.

Since religious people equate religion with morals, that's where they get that notion that chopping off a kids foreskin will make him a better person (which, for them, means Jew/Muslim). The same rationalizations are used for FGM, saying it makes women temperate and pure.

[–]Celda 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

it also made me burn and break out, the doctor said a lot of women are allergic to the semen of the uncircumsised.

http://thestir.cafemom.com/in_the_news/139616/circumcision_outlawed_even_for_religious?next=11

If stupidity was a crime, she would be convicted instantly.

[–]ispq 9 points10 points11 points 14 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

get circumcised when you turn 18.

[–]Equa1 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Even at 18 I wouldn't recommend it..

[+]darkgatherer -14 points-13 points-12 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Get your childhood vaccines when you're 18.

[–]Celda 8 points9 points10 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Logical fallacy.

Medical necessity trumps consent, we would perform surgery on a baby's broken bone or some injury against their consent.

[–]iamirishpat -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

...it's science.

[–]klonozopanour 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Because getting your penis lopped is good for your health.

[–]ZzDe0 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It is actually a little bit better but even a 5 year old could see what the differences are between getting a shot and getting a piece of your body removed.

[–]ispq 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Vaccines are used to create a herd immunity to protect all of us. It's a clear case of "for the greater good". While cutting the genitalia of babies on the other hand does nothing of the kind.

[–]Jorand 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Heaven forbid the child himself decides whether he wants to even be involved in the religion or not. (Speaking about Jewish Bris particularly since the Jews are mad. I believe circumcision should only be done on consenting adults period.)

I don't understand why this ritual has to be done on an infant. Mormons can't have multiple wives anymore, what's so terrible about being circumcised when you're an adult?

[–]WurzelGummidge 10 points11 points12 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't understand why this ritual has to be done on an infant.

Because no informed male over the age of 18 would allow anyone with a scalpel anywhere near his dick.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, in the same way that banning people from stoning adulterers and from cutting the heads off of cartoonists who draw Muhammad is a form of anti-Islamic oppression.

Grow up.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Does this ban the practice entirely, or just for infants? I have no problem with a consenting adult getting circumcised.

[–]Lecks 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Just children, from what I've read.

[–]McFeely_Smackup 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Is banning the murder of young girls for talking to boys in public an anti-Muslim position? Or is it an anti-murder position?

I'm entirely comfortable with saying mutilating newborn boys penises is wrong no matter what your religion is. Anti-semitism is not an issue here that is even worth discussing, it's a red herring.

[–]alecbenzer 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

People are looking at this in entirely the wrong way. "Banning doing something to someone's body before they have the right to consent is anti-semitism"

[–]rightsbot 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Post text automatically copied here. (Why?) (Report a problem.)

[–]mordicaii 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Granted, I'm not Jewish, but from what I understand, circumcision is not a massive tenant of the faith. Then again, I'm an Atheist, so I eat poor babies. Abram was commanded to circumcise all of his children (thus, all Jews must be snipped), but this is simply one arm of the religion. It isn't the whole religion. They're Jews not 'Snippites'.

What I don't quite get why they are getting panties in a bunch over this. Surely their faith must transcend further than just the act of circumcising their baby boys. I thought the idea of religion was to teach people right from wrong and to not be ass holes to each other. If they have lost sight of their real goal and are going on about "OH MAH GERD, THEY ARE TAKING AWAY OUR RIGHTS TO HURT PEOPLE, BOO HOO", fuck 'em.

There are two proverbs I like to keep at heart: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" and "Your right to swing your fist ends where my face begins." The first basically just means to not hurt people who have not hurt you, and the second is even simpler: Don't hurt people. There is no justifiable reason to hurt someone who has not hurt you, religion is not a free pass on that, either.

[–]mrmacky 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That being said: I believe Muslims do not practice infant circumcision.

I think Jews do it between 8 to 13 days old, whereas Muslims did it between 6 to 13 years of age. Still a pretty young kid. More than capable of understanding what is about to happen, but far too young to actually say anything to stop it, in my opinion.

Thing is: My parents are Lutheran, I was circumcised as an infant. It is certainly not a tenant of the Lutheran faith. Especially considering Lutherans think all the OT stuff has been negated by the death and resurrection of Christ.

I just don't get it: my philosophy is mostly "don't push my philosophy on anyone else" - that extends to any son I might have.

Baptism I don't mind, because it's purely a symbolic gesture of faith that I could later shrug off. Circumcision though? For people like me, who don't believe anymore, you now have a permanent reminder of one of the crazier holdovers from religion.

Fortunately I've grown to like the aesthetics, and I don't mind payin for lube, but this shit could be downright traumatic for some people.

I wasn't even aware I was circumcised until grade school; I thought my package was perfectly normal, my parents never said anything. How is that not a lie of omission? How is that setting a good Christian example?

[–]mordicaii 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

TIL that Muslims do not circumcise infants. I will edit my post.

[–]mikesteane 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Is it anti-semitism not to believe that God promised Joshua he could invade the land of all the surrounding tribes and kill everyone and everything. Did Joshua's claim give him a religious right to kill anyone occupying land he wanted? Religious freedom does not give religious people the right to do whatever they want.

[–]MRDA 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What a load of steaming PC BULLSHIT this is! The usual Jewish Exceptionalism that crops up whenever someone criticizes something dodgy that Jewishfolk happen to have a hand in.

Also, seeing as this bill also affects Muslims, I'm gonna call solipsism, too.

http://mrda.wordpress.com/2012/07/22/opposing-circumcision-a-shoah-thing/

[–]strangersadvice 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

We banned female circumcision... despite the barbaric practices of some religions... and that was OK.

[–]Yojimara -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good. Semitism is bullshit, and takes away people's rights.

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