Should Men Have the Right to Financial Abortions?

thetrollking · 2011-10-21T03:52:28+00:00

Not a bad article, especially since it is written by a feminist. Two take aways:

Financial abortion, in the strictest sense, can be simplified to the most elementary of terms: No taxation without representation. If a woman's body cannot be legislated; neither, then, should a man's right to choose when he becomes a father.

[...]

Responsibility and equality should not be mutually exclusive.

In this emerging feminist zeitgeist, fathers are often minimized by necessity in their voluntary absence, so it's understandable that women should solely control when they give birth, and that right cannot, and should not, be taken away. As a mother, sister and friend who bears witness to the fear, anger and frustration that women whom I love dearly face month to month when child-support payments are late or non-existent, this exploration into the nuances of equality was extremely difficult to tackle. However, I had to ask myself, and challenge other women in the pro-choice movement to ask themselves -- this brutally honest question:

Do we believe in absolute freedom of choice -- or merely our choice?

Infuser · 2011-10-21T07:04:30+00:00

I'm glad this is getting more mainstream attention.

If financial abortions were put in place, how would people feel about men only being obligated to assist with (not completely cover) the medical costs of abortion/pregnancy?

Bobsutan · 2011-10-21T11:51:52+00:00

Should Men Have the Right to Financial Abortions?

Yes. Why are we even debating this? Also, upvote the shit out of Celda's comment ON THE HUFFPOST ARTICLE. Make sure her's is the top comment so others see it.

Men and women should have equal rights. That means giving men the equal opportunity to opt out of parenthood. Women can abort, give up for adoption, or legally abandon their child. Why don't men have those same rights?

If a man advises the woman he doesn't wish to become a parent, and she goes through with the pregnancy anyway, it was her choice to have the baby and thus is should be 100% her responsibility to pay for the child. Her choice, her responsibility.

Forcing a someone to labor for another person's decision is indentured servitude at best and slavery at worst.

A_Nihilist · 2011-10-21T15:36:16+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Ishmael999 · 2011-10-21T09:33:26+00:00

Yes, absolutely. Women should have the right to choose if and when they should shoulder the responsibility of a child, and men should have the same rights.

SpawnQuixote · 2011-10-21T11:56:06+00:00

We will never have this. The state does not want to pay even more to support women. Our system is already crashing from the weight of supporting single moms and quotas in the workplace with no actual productivity.

Here is an article from TIME dated 2006. Nothing will change, much like we will never see effective male birth control. http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1173414,00.html

ProWomanAntiFeminist · 2011-10-21T13:55:44+00:00

Very solid article.

TheArtofXan · 2011-10-21T17:27:41+00:00

A financial abortion strengthens a woman's position of 'my body, my choice'. Their right to that decision is at its strongest when the decision only affect them, and no others. Tying another human's life to that choice adds a 3rd party to the situation, creating a 'your life, my choice' scenerio and weakens the 'my body' argument.

This should be seen as a win-win option for anyone interested in equality and is a proponent of personal choice: a finacial abortion is good for women and men as it strengthens the personal freedoms of all parties.

holyerthanthou · 2011-10-21T18:49:21+00:00

women - "my body, my choice"

for men - "my wallet, my money, my choice"

(also, if women know that a man has no financial obligation to any children they father, I think there would be a lot less lying about Birth Control)

edit: the phrase a little

theozoph · 2011-10-21T09:42:27+00:00

When a mother decides that abortion is her only option, with or without the father's consent, she is legally able to do so. This layered bias has been encouraged and accepted by society as a whole because the percentage of men who negate their responsibility to their children is much higher than those left heartbroken over a partner's abortion.

[...]

Men must be held equally accountable for pregnancy and the subsequent innocent lives that enter into the world.

There are no excuses.

[...]

In this emerging feminist zeitgeist, fathers are often minimized by necessity in their voluntary absence.

(excuse me as I rage with the fury of a thousand suns)

Apart from those sterling examples of misandry (only men have responsibilities, plus slander), the article does pose the problem in clear terms.

She comes short of taking a clear position in favor of men, though.

2011-10-21T13:30:53+00:00

Gestation of children in artificial wombs needs to become a common practice before any of this talk becomes anything but fantasy. MensRights geeks, let's get that science going!

hardwarequestions · 2011-10-21T03:33:30+00:00

if i was better at photoshop i would make a new Futurama/Fry meme; one taken from Into the Wild Green Yonder where Fry is shouting "Stop making your point so ineffectively!".

that's how i feel about this piece. i like the conclusion and the message behind it. but holy god it took some strength of will to get to that point.

EDIT: i may be bad with photoshop but i'm decent with Paint and the screengrab key. i've picked out a number of frames that i think would fit the phrase "Stop making your point so ineffectively!"...which do you prefer?

http://i.imgur.com/Z2t6O.jpg

Offensive_Brute · 2011-10-21T12:49:19+00:00

can we please stop calling this shit Financial Abortion?? Financial Abortion is what I do to my wallet between friday afternoon and monday morning. There has to be a smarter, cleaner sounding way to phrase this. Maybe its just my conservatism kicking in, but I find the word abortion to be extremely ugly and distasteful.

We need an acronym!!!!

Benocrates · 2011-10-21T07:55:08+00:00

[permanently deleted]

ThereIsAThingForThat · 2011-10-21T16:09:48+00:00

I have some questions about how you guys think this idea would be carried out: The father has up until a certain point in the pregnancy to opt out? or would it be to opt in? Or would it be a certain length of time after he has been notified of the pregnancy? What kind of proof would be required that the man had been notified, so that the woman can't claim that he has been told when he has not and the man can't claim ignorance of the situation?

MikeFromBC · 2011-10-21T19:02:44+00:00

Thumbs'd up almost everyone here. Great points.

ExaminingMagistrate · 2011-10-21T05:36:18+00:00

whatever the hell this is, yes. why should women get all the fun of abortions? I want to abort some shit too.

ProWomanAntiFeminist · 2011-10-21T15:24:04+00:00

Moderators are heavily censoring comments at this article. I have posted two fair and balanced replies so far and neither have been posted. On the other hand, it looks like some female supremacists have no trouble posting their jibber jabber.

2011-10-22T23:04:44+00:00

Yes, but I don't know how to make it fair.

It is not fair to make a woman feel like she needs to have an abortion or else (if she wants but he doesn't want to continue pregnancy). It is also not fair for her to be forced to carry the pregnancy to term (if man wants but she does not want pregnancy).

Once she is pregnant, it is not fair for the burden of taking care of that child financially to be on both her and society because the father opts out. However, it is not fair for a man to have to pay for a child he would "abort" if he were able to do so.

The problem is, it can never be fair, so it makes sense to make it fair before the issue even begins. We would need a solution pre-conception. It should have to be in writing. It's not enough to state your position and let it be so verbally, because where emotions are involved there will be too many lies for a solution.

I suggest a contract for every sexual partner which both parties should sign. Of course no one would ever take this seriously, but it would be the only way things could be truly fair.

cooj · 2011-10-21T13:46:53+00:00

My answer is no, men should NOT have the right to financial abortions. I consider myself a pretty dedicated MRA, but I have different opinion on this issue than most of you, which probably stems from having a different opinion on abortion than most of you.

I don't want to get into the abortion debate here (if you care to know what I think, feel free to look into my past comments), but I think I have a pretty well-reasoned position. I think abortion is wrong in every case except to save the life of the mother.

The woman has the choice to not be a mother (she can abort her child). If the woman chooses to have her baby, the man can't choose not to be a father. He simply IS a father. No matter what sort of legal exemption we offer men, the bottom line is that there's a child in existence who only has one biological father. In my opinion, the position of "biological father" bears with it some responsibility despite who the biological mother is or how batshit insane she may be.

TL;DR: Fatherhood does not require intent, and bears with it responsibilities and duties.

GTChessplayer · 2011-10-21T05:04:16+00:00

Well, it's an implicit contract. When you sleep with a woman, you're taking on the risk of her getting pregnant and then keeping or getting rid of it.

Men have the choice to not sleep with that woman.

ExpendableOne · 2011-10-21T17:07:21+00:00

Honestly, I would even go as far as saying that it should be illegal for a woman to purposely proceed with her pregnancy without the consent of the man who's sperm/DNA was used to create that child. This goes far beyond just money; a woman choosing to have a child without, or against, the fathers consent is also both forcing a lifelong emotional and psychological burden on that man and fraudulently using a seed that she does not own. Women who disregard men, their right to consent or abuse the sanctity of their seed should not be encouraged by society to go through with a pregnancy(not only is she already showing herself as an unfit mother but adding an extra burden onto society itself because of a selfish or childish desire). At the very least(I understand criminalization is a bit of an extreme; though, men are still routinely fined, sentenced and jailed for far lesser crimes), not only should men be given full exception from financial, moral and emotional responsibilities but any/all government funding or incentives should automatically be exempted or cut for that woman as well.

snackpower · 2011-10-21T12:23:26+00:00

With a long term, reversible, male birth control option right around the corner this issue is not really worth discussing.

Men will be able to prevent an accident from happening which is almost as good as a woman's ability to reverse one.

It does pose another issue since the only accidental babies will be from ignorant men or poor men that can't afford the birth control. The movie Idiocracy nailed it.

Jorand · 2011-10-21T09:49:06+00:00

no. the commitment/obligation is made at the time of sex. if she chooses to abort, free to go. but if she chooses to keep it, then you're stuck because you acknowledged that risk and your responsibility at the time of sex.

Title	Should Men Have the Right to Financial Abortions?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	168
Comments	288
Date	October 21, 2011 3:17 AM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/ljic4/should_men_have_the_right_to_financial_abortions/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/should-men-have-the-right-to-financial-abortions.1032812 https://theredarchive.com/post/1032812

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