One of the more chilling wrongful rape claims in recent times: the woman who sent a man to prison for five years because she was bored, and sick of men

The problem with a 'don't do X because it might scare potential future victims' sentiment is that it shifts the balance of rights to favor accusers at the expense of the rights of the accused. Giving false accusers a free pass institutionalizes the idea that that those who make accusations are to be assumed to be telling the truth and the burden of proof should fall on the accused to refute any claim made by an accuser.

(Un?)fortunately for all the victims out there our society (supposedly) implements the innocent until proven guilty approach to justice. From that principle one can conclude that we are supposed to find it more reprehensible that an innocent man was punished than to find that a guilty man has gone free. Unfortunately for all the falsely accused out there this sentiment flies in the face of the sort of strong emotional reactions crimes like rape tend to elicit so it's hard to get any support for people actually thinking instead of feeling when issues like this come up.

[+][deleted] -8 points-7 points-6 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points14 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Which once again calls more for more stringent rules on prosecutorial misconduct. Prosecutors should not have free reign to manipulate evidence however it suits them to make a conviction.

Agreed.

Justice was not served, not specifically because the women made false accusations. Or not solely because she did at least. It was not served because the judge and prosecutor worked together to suppress important evidence.

Ah yes, the "It's the system, not the woman" argument...again.

Well, I think ALL of them should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law...and if that's not enough, the law should be "improved" for men for a change...and THEN they should be prosecuted.

No mercy, at all, for ANY of them (ESPECIALLY the accuser).

Nah, the way I see it, the accuser should serve the sentence she sought for him, the legal people should all be disbarred and have the law applied to them afterwards (as in, commit fraud, go to jail).

And I think that news outlets should be held financially responsible, and legally liable, for ruining the life of an innocent man. To that end, I would like to see anonymity extended to the accused, and clear cut CRIMINAL avenues to go after news outlets that choose to sell papers (for example) rather than behave within the law...

But first and foremost, the accuser should pay the most...in EVERY instance.

[+][deleted] -12 points-11 points-10 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ghostchamber 31 points32 points33 points 15 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] -20 points-19 points-18 points 15 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Men being vilified wrongly is probably less common by many orders of magnitude. Part of the whole problem with sexual crimes in our country is an undercurrent of sexism that IS still common today.

Amongst redditors, yeah we're probably pretty bohemian in terms of our views on women and their sexual sovereignty, but much of the nation is still very conservative and allows an image of women as deserving of whatever they get for having sexuality.

It IS illegal to file false reports. There are laws against it. We don't need to promote laws that SPECIFICALLY target women in the context of rape charges. Many women that have been raped are unsure about whether or not what they experience WAS rape.

Many times, they are raped while with someone they are familiar with and they may well say, 'No,' but they feel that they somehow invited the rape by being friendly or otherwise.

The point being that it is already against the law to file false reports.

Everyone downvoting me is EVERY BIT as stupid as a fox news viewer. You see one example of something to fear and you go flying off the handle about how we should crucify people.

What evidence is there that this is in any way a systemic problem anywhere in the same universe as sexual crimes against women? It is bad that this happened, but in this context it isn't the absence of laws attacking wrongful rape charges that caused this to happen, is it? No. It was the immorality of the prosecutor and judge in wanting to secure a conviction despite the evidence.

I'm sorry, but just because you are mad about this woman doing something awful, doesn't mean you should lose sight of who the victim is 99/100 times.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points20 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] -17 points-16 points-15 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

No dude, you're way off basis here.

Actually you're perfectly straight up wrong.

Many times women are raped, as in someone tears their clothing off opens their legs up and assaults them and they are unsure whether or not it was rape because they agreed to go on a date. Or because they drank a little bit. Or because they wore revealing clothing.

So to the woman, it isn't at ALL clear whether or not rape is what just happened. Plus since MOST of the time rape occurs by someone the victim knew, it further compounds the fear of reprisal and uncertainty in filing charges.

I am not for defending rapists OR people that file false claims, but rapes go unreported a huge percentage of the time already.

Plus you are suggesting that somehow liberal policies have perverted our legal system. This insinuates that at some time in our past, rape wasn't a big deal because it was properly dealt with legally. At this point you're deluded.

The laws may be imperfect and double standards may exist, but it is up to us as a society to improve them for the betterment of everyone than to erode what measure of progress there has been so far through aggressive laws that prevent woman from coming forward.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points16 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Many times women are raped, as in someone tears their clothing off opens their legs up and assaults them and they are unsure whether or not it was rape because they agreed to go on a date. Or because they drank a little bit. Or because they wore revealing clothing.

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!

I have 2 daughters and 2 sisters...you have an EXTREMELY infantilized view of women if you think they can't tell if someone FORCING themselves on them is rape...

Nope, you're mischaracterizing studies in which women were classed as being 'raped' by the researcher...NOT the woman herself. These studies are well known to be a better indication of the researcher's bias and hoped-for outcome, than anything resembling "fact" or "truth"....

The laws may be imperfect and double standards may exist, but it is up to us as a society to improve them for the betterment of everyone than to erode what measure of progress there has been so far through aggressive laws that prevent woman from coming forward.

Frankly, I'm not interested AT ALL in keeping the 'progress' feminists have made in this area around....

Not one little bit.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]matt_512 4 points5 points6 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points-2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]zyk0s 6 points7 points8 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]splotchyface -17 points-16 points-15 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]0vertime 10 points11 points12 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]bigben7 -14 points-13 points-12 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]zyk0s 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]nfiniteshade 39 points40 points41 points 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Gareth321 5 points6 points7 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]HerbalEssence 16 points17 points18 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SmoothWD40 8 points9 points10 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]xandrab1a 42 points43 points44 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]RabidBadger 13 points14 points15 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]seersucker 80 points81 points82 points 15 years ago (51 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points25 points 15 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

[–]Hamakua 10 points11 points12 points 15 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points14 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[+]gtkarber -10 points-9 points-8 points 15 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points15 points 15 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[+]gtkarber -8 points-7 points-6 points 15 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Gareth321 7 points8 points9 points 15 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

And how many CEOs are there, exactly? How does having 495 out of 500 CEOs men make any impact to the other 150 million men in America? Are you seriously arguing that those 495 men somehow enrich the lives of the other 150 million men? No, I'm sorry. Rich people hoard their wealth. The average male is just as screwed as the average female.

Regarding poor people, 41% of homeless are estimated to be single adult males, versus just 14% for females. What coefficient are are they using to determine "poor" in the link you cited from aetherallow? Further, the Department of Labour conducted extensive research on the labour gap, and concluded that, within a few percent margin, the gap exists because women make different life choices; predominantly choosing raising a family over a career. You're free to speculate on why women make those choices, but you're not free to claim the wage gap is the result of anything other than legitimate choices that women make. There's nothing wrong with choosing to raise a family, either, it's just that the consequence is less experience and lower wage, comparable to a man of the same age. In fact, single women in their 20s are now actually out-earning men in the same demographic in many parts of the US.

To your last point, I think it depends how you weigh "trivialized". I see men as far more expendable than women in this day and age. Every time there's a natural disaster, I hear "think of the women and children". Every time a threat approaches, be it terrorism or some new rapist scare, I hear "think of the women and children". There's just no coverage on the highly disproportionate deaths of men, that includes in the work-place, because of suicide, and because of endemic illnesses like prostate cancer. So, by comparison, I certainly believe the lives of men have been trivialized.

[–]gtkarber -4 points-3 points-2 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Gareth321 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+]erinseale -7 points-6 points-5 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]zyk0s 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]erinseale -3 points-2 points-1 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Your condescending tone has been noted, don't worry.

There are enough situations where men are unfairly burdened by a system that removes their choice, marital spending is not one of them.

Do you honestly think that a husband's paycheck is made out to his wife? There's nothing that requires him to give her anything while they are married. He can give her the checkbook if he chooses to. It's trickle-down economics, on a small scale. If it works for him that she makes the spending decisions, that's great. There's no reason to get up in arms about a financial planning decision that is completely arbitrary, as if women making the spending decisions somehow disempowers male earners. That's simply not the case. The income earner is given the choice, and the other is ultimately put on an allowance or given free reign, based on the earner'schoice.

Yes divorce laws and settlements can be heavy-handed and without practical application. There are such things as pre-nups these days, and there is even a growing trend toward husbands receiving alimony; the idea is finally catching up with our current culture's income/gender balance. You can choose to marry an independent, career minded woman that is capable of taking care of herself, or you can choose to marry a woman that has no interest in doing so, who will want to be supported if the relationship falls apart. I can make the same type of decision, and I can also have alimony levied against my income if I am the high-earner in my relationship.

It's great to talk about injustices as they occur, but I think your particular arguments are just inflammatory and for some reason give me the vibe of a vintage Penthouse magazine.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]seersucker -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]seersucker -2 points-1 points0 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]seersucker -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]LoudmouthedBitch -14 points-13 points-12 points 15 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link

[–]PierceHarlan[S] 34 points35 points36 points 15 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

Have you ever noticed that every time a feminist discusses false rape claims, she becomes an actuarial? False rape claims are an acceptable risk because, supposedly, there are so few of them, and because there are so many actual rapes -- especially of the unreported variety.

Sigh.

Please, please, please, stop with the conclusory assertions that false rape claims are rare. No one has any firm idea how common they are. A leading feminist legal scholar recently acknowledged: ". . . the statistics on false rape accusation widely vary and 'as a scientific matter, the frequency of false rape complaints to police or other legal authorities remains unknown.'" A. Gruber, Rape, Feminism, and the War on Crime, 84 Wash. L. Rev. 581, 595-600 (November 2009) (citation omitted). How do I know the number is unknowable? Rougly fifteen percent end in conviction in the U.S. and of those we know that some innocent men and boys are convicted. We also know that some claims reported (the numbers vary depending on the study) are outright false. But in between the claims we are reasonably certain were actual rapes, and the ones we are reasonably certain were false claims, is a vast gray area consisting of a group of claims that cannot properly be classified as "rapes" -- because we just don't know. That's the nature of a rape claim. The claims in this vast gray middle area often suffer from evidentiary infirmities. For example, for some such claims, while the claimant herself might think a rape occurred, her outward manifestations of assent did not match her subjective disinclination to engage in sex, so it wasn't rape. And that's just one of a countless number of examples.

But every objective study that was not commissioned or conducted by someone in the business of advocating that rape is rampant shows that false rape claims are a signficant problem. Including Kanin, a former feminist icon who suddenly became a nitwit when he reached a conclusion that doesn't fit the preferred narrative of those who dominate the public discourse about rape.

The crime of making a false report about rape is unique in our jurisprudence because virtually the entire public discourse about it is dominated by persons who insist it is not a serious public threat. Sexual assault counselors and still some feminist legal scholars contend that false rape claims are over-reported, that they get far more attention than they deserve. They even have a shorthand language for dismissing concerns about false rape claims. They refer to false rape claims as one of the so-called rape “myths.” They mock anyone who would voice concern about the false rape phenomenon by invoking Potiphars wife from the Book of Exodus, suggesting that the fear of false rape claims is both ancient and unfounded. They gussy up their pre-ordained conclusions on this subject with all manner of disingenuous statistics, the results of the most vile, gender-politicized advocacy research where every untested claim of "rape" is believed, and "rape" includes sex that occurred after "psychological coercion." This despicable, pathetic caterwauling echoes from the deepest bowels of victimization politics.

Here's the reality: there are innumerable blogs out there that act as advocates for rape victims. And that's great, because rape victims need all the help they can get.

There is, as far as I can tell, one blog that is devoted to going to bat for the presumptively innocent who, too often, are falsely accused -- mine (False Rape Society).

Yet, I guess, for some of you, one blog is one blog too many.

Disgusting.

[–]InfinitePower 11 points12 points13 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]LoudmouthedBitch -6 points-5 points-4 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You appear not to have understood my point. I never asserted that because false rape accusations were rare, that they're any less reprehensible. I also notice that you jump to labeling me as a "feminist," much as the term "liberal" is often used as a derogatory label.

False rape accusations are a problem. I never said they weren't. I even said it was fine to report on them. If you want to devote a blog to combating false rape accusations, you are, of course, free to do so. My complaint was that, on reddit, it seems that there is a preponderance of articles about false-rape accusations, and nearly no articles on rape cases that are unfair to the accuser.

To take this complaint about how this may lead to the false sense that most rape claims are false/most alleged victims are liars, and claim I'm trying to silence you and your blog is a bit of a stretch, especially when I explicitly said it was fine to report on false-rape accusations.

In terms of rarity of false-accusations, they're about as likely as any other type of false criminal accusation. The statistics on false-rape accusations are all manners of f'ed up, because it's hard to differentiate "intentionally false" from "lack of evidence/accidental identification."

But the most sensationalized stories, where a woman is out for revenge or attention, do not even represent the majority of the "gray" cases.

Now, to your claim that society caters to the "victim," instantly trusting the accuser… this is simply not as black and white as you present it. There's an excessive amount of victim-blaming that occurs, implications about how a victim's actions induced the crime, how "inappropriate" behavior indicates fault (drinking, partying, etc.). There's open discourse about various rape trials, and about how accusers might be lying for financial gain, attention seeking, etc. Much of the time, these dialogues ignore the fact that accusers are not often viewed favorably in the eyes of the public.

Remember how well publicized the Duke Lacrosse case was? There was plenty of outrage over the false-rape accusation in the media. Just recently, a girl committed suicide after being bullied about her rape-accusation. So to paint society as being completely welcoming and loving towards alleged victims is only looking at half of the evidence.

Really, all I want is a balanced view of the subject, which means looking at both sides (false rape, real rape, date-rape, when the accuser is treated poorly, when the accused is treated poorly by the justice system). You aren't obligated to do this in your blog, as it's your own space, but my comment was directed at reddit, not your blog.

I'll thus assume the label of "disgusting" was lobbied then at a hypothetical poster who was telling you to take down your blog.

[–]Kuonji 5 points6 points7 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

on reddit, it seems that there is a preponderance of articles about false-rape accusations

I'd actually say that this is restricted to the /r/Mensrights subreddit

and nearly no articles on rape cases that are unfair to the accuser

I see them. Not in this subreddit, but in 'equivalent' subreddits. (2xc) Though it may be a stretch to believe this is purely reddit posting bias rather than simply a lack of those types of situations existing. Are you sure which one it is?

In terms of rarity of false-accusations, they're about as likely as any other type of false criminal accusation.

Are there sources on this you are basing this statement from?

Now, to your claim that society caters to the "victim," instantly trusting the accuser… this is simply not as black and white as you present it.

I didn't see where he mentioned that.

all I want is a balanced view of the subject, which means looking at both sides

Me too. Personally, I've been bombarded with a significant amount of information and 'education' about the crime of rape and its effects. Now I'm looking to counterpoint some of what I've been hearing about all my life with information from that other side, since it has barely existed until recently.

[+][deleted] -12 points-11 points-10 points 15 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]PierceHarlan[S] 13 points14 points15 points 15 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] -14 points-13 points-12 points 15 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]PierceHarlan[S] 12 points13 points14 points 15 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] -10 points-9 points-8 points 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]PierceHarlan[S] 9 points10 points11 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] -8 points-7 points-6 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]EvilPundit 9 points10 points11 points 15 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Rzanio 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]EvilPundit 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]LoudmouthedBitch -6 points-5 points-4 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Bandow 4 points5 points6 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]kragshot 4 points5 points6 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] -13 points-12 points-11 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]PierceHarlan[S] 14 points15 points16 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]LoudmouthedBitch -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]seersucker -2 points-1 points0 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]LoudmouthedBitch -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]seersucker -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 15 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]evileddy 5 points6 points7 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]neozz1 46 points47 points48 points 15 years ago (27 children) | Copy Link

[+]splotchyface -15 points-14 points-13 points 15 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]splotchyface -6 points-5 points-4 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PierceHarlan[S] 15 points16 points17 points 15 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[+]splotchyface -11 points-10 points-9 points 15 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Maintaining that "false rape" is a bigger problem than rape is completely irresponsible, and that's inevitably a sentiment that emerges in the comments when articles like this get posted on reddit.

Rape is a problem that our justice system just isn't really set up to handle. What's another crime where the question of whether or not a crime was even committed is an issue? Someone on trial for murder might not be the guilty party, but there's no question that there's a murder victim somewhere. The need to discern whether or not there was consent (and how consent should be defined) in the case of rape trials makes the procedure much less black and white than the system can really recognize.

But please don't be a rape denier, or fan the flames of rape denial. Obviously it's terrible to falsely accuse someone of something so serious, but that makes a winning headline so people consider it to be way more common than it is. Talk to a rape-crisis counselor if you get the chance. In any given city, they go on cases every single day. Balance your intake of stuff like the website you linked to with some open-minded discussion from the other side.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]splotchyface -2 points-1 points0 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Rape is a problem our justice system USED to handle...at least quite a bit more effectively than it does now.

Unless, of course, you look at things from the woman's standpoint only...in which case I seriously doubt you'd agree with me.

The fact is, you can't tell a guy "If you follow these rules, you can't be convicted of rape". All you can say is "Ensure you have consent" - along with all that attendant grey area of "What constitutes consent?", and "How likely is this scenario to play out well in common practice?", not to mention all those rape cases from girls who feel rejected after the guy doesn't call, gets told she was "taken advantage of", and voila! Another "date rape" case in the making.

The fact is, there is NO defense a man can take, save to trust that the woman really isn't "like that". And that, right there, is what I like to call Bad Law.

My main point, though, is that this Bad Law was instigated for a purpose, to "get convictions" - i.e. demonize men, and strip them of their legal protections, so as to facilitate easier conviction. This self-perpetuating "system" is PEOPLE using this issue as a means to "get convictions" to ensure their jobs, and screw the Rights of the accused...

There's even a Judge, speaking at Osgoode Hall in a training session for Judges on Family Law, who was quoted as saying 'screw their rights, toss them out in the street' when it came to men.

So really, the issue of false accusations is FAR more important than the issue of rape..

The definition of rape has widened to the point of obscenity, artificially bloating the numbers.

The 'system' of self-interested bureaucrats are gleefully tossing mens rights on the fire to 'get convictions', but since the system is so big now, they need a LOT of accusations...and false ones are just fine, as long as they 'get convictions'.

So as a political issue, false accusations are not only a criminal offense uniquely directed towards men that goes unpunished, but it's also a deliberate use of State power to oppress (yup, there's that word, only this time it fits) and incarcerate men, both for economic and coercive reasons.

So yeah, I'd say it's MORE important of an issue by a wide fucking margin, actually....

[–]PierceHarlan[S] 10 points11 points12 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]splotchyface -3 points-2 points-1 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Peritract 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]thetrollking 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]soundclip989 -13 points-12 points-11 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 15 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+][deleted] 15 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]ghostchamber 6 points7 points8 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]stemgang 4 points5 points6 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]jazzlovr69lol -32 points-31 points-30 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]adamant2009 10 points11 points12 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ma99ie 7 points8 points9 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]kloo2yoo[M] 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points15 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]thetrollking 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]kloo2yoo 11 points12 points13 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]gabriot 10 points11 points12 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Ma99ie 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Forrado 8 points9 points10 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 15 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]stupidlyugly 7 points8 points9 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 15 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 15 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]nibbles200 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 38 points39 points40 points 15 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points24 points 15 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Feminism is about gender EQUALITY not superiority.

In the past, maybe one of the versions of feminism fit this definition -not today in the west.

Women groups have stood against anonymity for defendents of rape accusations. They protested the formation of a Male Studies field independent from the totalitarian control of misandric Gender Studies departments. They lobbied for a larger share of Obama's stimulus package when 80% of the lost jobs during the recession were held by men. They still lean heavily on Title IX when men as a group are clearly the disadvantaged gender at every level of education. Breast cancer fund raising takes a ridiculously unfair percentage of cancer research money. Many domestic violence shelters refuse to take in male victims.

I could go on, but the evidence is clearly against the assertion that feminism is currently about gender equality.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 15 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Look, you originally came into this subreddit and made a claim that feminism was about gender equality. Do you have any idea at all why this is offensive to the regulars here? Feminism has done next to nothing to help men with their issues, beyond paying lip service. The powerful feminist groups that actually affect change today are about fixing perceived disadvantages for women and removing unfair advantages for men - not vice versa.

And now you're also making the claim that men sit in a "priviliged [sic] position" without any evidence to back up your claim. Also offensive and completely ignorant to make such sweeping hateful generalizations. Frankly, the way you come across in your posts is as a feminist idealist who has never been exposed to the very real, very serious issues men face.

[–]thetrollking 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

No men are not privileged in this society.

I don't believe that one bit and it's why we don't think you are actually for equality. Feminists seem to believe that women need to be lifted up to mens level but they only look at the top 1% of men. So you want equality with the top 1% of men. If you actually wanted equality with men then you would realize it won't lift you up but instead drag you down to our level.

On every indicator in my life I should be one of these highly privileged males. I come from a middle to upper middle class, very educated family and I am white.

If I am so privileged and women aren't then I want to know how many times a cop pulled you over for walking down your own street as a female...or better yet, how many guns and knives did you get put to your face just as a teen? How many times has some cop placed his baton at the back of your neck and called you a fag before you even turned 18?

At 13 I literally walked down my street on a sunday afternoon cause I was bored. A few minutes later I see a cruiser pass me and then I hear a siren and turn to find the cruiser creeping behind me. I ended up not being beaten or arrested that time, but it's never fun to be harassed by the cops for walking down the street while male.

I am 27 today and the last time this happened was about six months ago. I was walking my dog up and down the street and then put my dog back into my apartment and went back out to get some books out of my car for class. 30 minutes later and five squad cars later I am flat down on the hood of a police car while they search me and my car cause I must have been 'casing' my own fucking block according to these cops who didn't see my dog. The very next day I see the same cops stop by a woman walking in the street(she looked like a meth head) and instead of asking what she's doing in a college based neighborhood they asked her if she needed some help.

Now, I guess I am privileged or more so than some of my much poorer white and black and latino friends cause I never met the 'beat box'. Do you even know what that is? It's the elevator that goes from the courtroom to the jail in my town. According to a former cop, and a shit ton of my friends, they have to repaint the walls every week to cover up the blood stains.

Thanks to feminists like you we live in a police state. Women are always voting away male freedoms for their own protections.

But yeah, us men are so pivileged. Since before I was born women have been getting more degrees than men....girls in my schools were always privileged while most teachers tried to re-engineer us boys into something else. Today i look at my childhood and realize that most of it was either shamed away or medicated away because of feminists.

Every day men of my generation wake up to realize that feminism has been a cancer on our society that spreads and spreads and seems to harm mainly men. Well, the ones that haven't committed suicide and haven't OD'd and the ones that haven't been murdered do.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]gtkarber -2 points-1 points0 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]zyk0s 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]jay76 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]HerbalEssence 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]amayes 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AnnArchist 14 points15 points16 points 15 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]justgo 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]nibbles200 9 points10 points11 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]kuahara 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]thelurkerx 4 points5 points6 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ghostchamber -2 points-1 points0 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]kloo2yoo 6 points7 points8 points 15 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

sounds like a reasonable attempt to avoid slut-shaming to me.

I don't think the passage the blog quotes is relevant to the crime. This: and I'm sick of myself for giving in to them. I'm not a nympho like all those guys think. I'm just not strong enough to say no to them. I'm tired of being a whore. This is where it ends. has nothing to do with the trial at hand, which is whether Nate raped her or not. A victim's reputation should bear no evidence over whether or not a crime was committed. Consent is not abstract. That's like faulting someone who is mugged for being in a bad neighborhood--it doesn't change the fact that they were victims of a crime.

The part that is relevant to the case is this: I think I pounced on Nate because he was the last straw. Relevant to the case, does not bring up past reputation, provides evidence for the prosecution. Yeah, that should have been included as evidence, but those rules are there for a reason.

[–]matt45 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]kloo2yoo 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

thank you for the corrections, but that really doesn't address my concern:

Now brace yourself. At Mr. Lewis' rape trial, the court allowed some portions of the diary to be read to the jury, but it excluded others. Citing Ohio's rape shield law, Ohio Revised Code § 2907.02(D), the trial court prohibited defense counsel from introducing the following language from the diary: ". . . and I'm sick of myself for giving in to them. I'm not a nympho like all those guys think. I'm just not strong enough to say no to them. I'm tired of being a whore. This is where it ends."

Hers is a statement meeting the tests a(1) and (2):

(a) Evidence generally inadmissible. The following evidence is not admissible in any civil or criminal proceeding involving alleged sexual misconduct except as provided in subdivisions (b) and (c):

(1) Evidence offered to prove that any alleged victim engaged in other sexual behavior.

(2) Evidence offered to prove any alleged victim's sexual predisposition.

I understand that it's the Ohio rules law that apply here, but if FRE is to be a model, it is certainly assailable.

[–]matt45 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

but if FRE is to be a model, it is certainly assailable

How? You're assuming that under FRE 412 the diary would be excluded. It's hardly clear that's the case (and it's crystal clear that in the 6th Circuit today it is not the case).

The diary gets in under 412 as long as it's presented for a valid purpose (any purpose other than to show the victim's sexual behavior or predisposition).

FRE 412 is quite different from the relevant Ohio law, which stated:

Evidence of specific instances of the victim's sexual activity, opinion evidence of the victim's sexual activity, and reputation evidence of the victim's sexual activity shall not be admitted under this section unless it involves evidence of the origin of semen, pregnancy, or disease, or the victim's past sexual activity with the offender, and only to the extent that the court finds that the evidence is material to a fact at issue in the case and that its inflammatory or prejudicial nature does not outweigh its probative value.

Evidence of specific instances of the defendant's sexual activity, opinion evidence of the defendant's sexual activity, and reputation evidence of the defendant's sexual activity shall not be admitted under this section unless it involves evidence of the origin of semen, pregnancy, or disease, the defendant's past sexual activity with the victim, or is admissible against the defendant under section 2945.59 of the Revised Code, and only to the extent that the court finds that the evidence is material to a fact at issue in the case and that its inflammatory or prejudicial nature does not outweigh its probative value.

[–]xandrab1a 6 points7 points8 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]InfinitePower 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]debgeorge 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ArmchairAnalyst 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I can't believe the trial's only a week away. I feel guilty (sort of) for trying to get Nate locked up, but his lack of respect for women is terrible.

...

I'm sick of men taking advantage of me . . . and I'm sick of myself for giving in to them. I'm not a nympho like all those guys think. I'm just not strong enough to say no to them. I'm tired of being a whore. This is where it ends.

...

"Yesterday morning I went to see two lawyers (partners) about a civil suit against Nate. *** I know that suing him is wrong, but what else is there for me to do? I know I'm not an evil person normally, but Nate pissed me off, and took advantage of me. Sorry for him that I'm so revengeful. I'll probably feel guilty about this someday."

...

"Speaking of money, I'm suing Nate. I'm desperate for money! My consience (sic) wouldn't allow me to do that before, but I'm going to do whatever I have to to get out of debt."

look of scorn

[+][deleted] 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]r8ed 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 15 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]HerbalEssence 14 points15 points16 points 15 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]RattusRattus -2 points-1 points0 points 15 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 15 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]RattusRattus 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm not going to take issue with the fact that the ruling class oppressed everyone else, but are you going to sit here and tell me that, in addition to that, there was no other discrimination going on? That, Jews and people of color weren't more oppressed? The fact that people are still quibbling over Roe vs. Wade, and putting up as many barriers to abortion as possible, should make it very clear that are still people who desire to oppress and control women. Nor will I argue that men aren't discriminated against either, or that's average men who are the impetus for women's oppression. I still think, given that they couldn't own property, couldn't vote, etc. that we can talk about them as an oppressed group, like the Jews and blacks. Instead of getting all CAPS LOCKY, why don't you cite a reference to enlighten me?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Bullshit, bullshit, and bullshit.

I'm not going to take issue with the fact that the ruling class oppressed everyone else, but are you going to sit here and tell me that, in addition to that, there was no other discrimination going on?

PLENTY of discrimination was going on...but FAR MORE against the avg guy than the avg woman...sorry, but that's just simple truth...why do you think Feminists NEVER put the average man's life into the mix when coming up with Patriarchy Theory?

The fact that people are still quibbling over Roe vs. Wade, and putting up as many barriers to abortion as possible, should make it very clear that are still people who desire to oppress and control women.

The fact that men to this day do not enjoy the same rights as women, and that Feminists of every stripe have been actively opposing this since 1972, should make it very clear that not only do we as a society DESIRE to oppress men as a sex, we actually DO it, then tell men it's "for equality".

Patriarchy Theory is the moral impetus behind literally EVERYTHING Feminists have done to men...the justification used by governments the world over to extend rights and priveleges to women, while ignoring men, or worse, making them bear the cost.

I still think, given that they couldn't own property, couldn't vote, etc. that we can talk about them as an oppressed group, like the Jews and blacks. Instead of getting all CAPS LOCKY, why don't you cite a reference to enlighten me?

I have a magazine full of articles that go into many of these issues. There are also a plethora of websites. So in response to your "evidence please":

menzmagazine.blogspot.com

Now, I would like to ask you a question...

How is it that you are aware of mens issues enough to come here and debate, but unaware enough that you demand evidence for the most basic of MRA assertions? And for that matter, how come you haven't run across the answer to your question yourself in all your 'concerned attention' to men?

[+]RattusRattus -6 points-5 points-4 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm a logical human being. I don't march lockstep with the feminists, why would I march lockstep with you? Nor did I come here for a debate, I asked for scholarly resources, and you sent me to blog. A fucking blog.

You came here to argue with MRAs and paint us as whiners. You are asking for scholarly research that you KNOW does not exist, because it can't get funded, because it runs counter to feminist ideals. It's hardly NEWS to anyone..it's frequently the subject of Academic articles, for example. But to people like you, even being faced with iron-clad irrefutable proof won't be enough for you to accept any culpability.

We've seen PLENTY of 'concerned feminists' like you around here...all asking identical questions, putting forth identical 'arguments'...

Here's a question. If you feminists are all about knowing what our concerns are, how come, after 15 YEARS of people like you coming here to 'learn', none of you feminists (who are DEEPLY concerned about men and equality) have a fucking CLUE what we're about?

How long does it take for you "concerned feminists" to get off your ass and learn something anyway?

[+][deleted] 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You do realize that "Patriarchy" is a system. As in, a structure.

true...a fictional one, but true. Er, unless you're talking about the family..in which case i can safely say it's been smashed for a long time already...

Legal rights afforded to men that were not afforded to women. Such as the right to vote, access to birth control (condoms were available to men, but certainly not women!), the ability to file for divorce, etc.

Men got the right to vote 3 elections before women.

Men STILL have access only to one form of non-surgical birth control (the LEAST effective of the bunch), and you're on GLUE if you think women didn't insist on them.

And Divorce was EASILY obtained...you just had to have a reason beyond "He's boring your Honor"....

but I'm sure you can agree that the average man had little to do with the government restricting the legal rights of the average women

Which doesn't even SLOW DOWN the Feminist drive to make all men pay....er, except those guys at the top of the ladder...they're HOT.

What the average man or average woman does in that structure is fairly irrelevant. Neither of them created that structure, and rarely have the ability or inclination to operate outside of that structure.

Bullshit. What each and every person does each and every day affects this. The general tendency for women to be EXTREMELY narcissistic in politics is a MAJOR reason for men being marginalized...as is the Chivalristic notions that enable Feminism in the first place...

And I would LOVE it if you could refute this with actual evidence for once...I've been waiting for a feminist to actually show that even one tiny part of Patriarchy Theory(tm) is based on fact....

[–]thetrollking 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good job man....it's so annoying having to deal with revisionist feminist history.

They never talk about the white feather campaign or about all the laws that did exist that benefitted women or how women(not all but a lot) had the vote before men because it was tied to property rights at the time and there were a shit ton of widows. Or how almost all of society was actually structured around women with the mens sphere existing to solely sell to and protect women(even if it didn't benefit all women).

I really think one reason revisionist history is taught in schools is to lay the foundation for feminist arguments. They bring up shit about women not being able to get loans as proof of oppression but never put it in context. Women could get loans but married women couldn't because they didn't have a right to take out a loan in their husbands names. It was against the law to loan money to a woman. Banks didn't do it cause so many men got pissed that their wives were running up debt shopping with out their permission or knowledge. It's interesting that they view men as free and as the oppressors in those days when back then men were more beasts of burden than they aer today. They claim it's oppressive that marraiges were arranged in most cases(by the mother) but from a females point of view back then it must have been great. She got a protected live, didn't have to work the fields for ex, and then when she got older whe got her own personal lil slave to work for her and all she had to do was have a lil sex...

BTW, check out my new reddit(where feminist trolls will be banned):

Trollkingdom(NSFW-ish)

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]AnnArchist 10 points11 points12 points 15 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]AnnArchist 10 points11 points12 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Bruce Barclay, a former Pennsylvania County Commissioner, was falsely accused of rape by a 20-year-old man, Mr. Barclay's housemate. In the course of the police investigation over the rape charge, Mr. Barclay admitted that he'd secretly filmed sex acts occurring in his home. "The [rape] accusation was contradicted by a video shot by a hidden camera in the bedroom of Barclay's Monroe Township home, police said." The video showed the men engaged in apparently consensual sex. Police said Barclay's alleged admission during the rape probe that he'd secretly filmed sex acts prompted further investigation. The investigation uncovered multiple videos of Barclay engaged in sex acts with men, apparently shot without the consent of the other men. Barclay was cleared of the rape charge but he was charged with wiretapping and other offenses in connection with secretly videotaping his sexual trysts. Barclay resigned his political post. As one commentator said: "Sadly, his vindication was his undoing."

http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/2010/01/camera-doesnt-lie-importance-of-video.html

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]thetrollking 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AnnArchist 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ghostchamber 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ghostchamber 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]thetrollking 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]rantgrrl 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]rantgrrl 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]jacob_28348 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ma99ie 7 points8 points9 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]jacob_28348 8 points9 points10 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Ma99ie 5 points6 points7 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]FromAshyToClassy 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]mishmashmish -3 points-2 points-1 points 15 years ago* (14 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]cuteman -3 points-2 points-1 points 15 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]SnakeJG 9 points10 points11 points 15 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 15 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 15 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]psiphre 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]mishmashmish 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 15 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]HerbalEssence 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]nibbles200 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PhilboFraggins -3 points-2 points-1 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]adle1984 -2 points-1 points0 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]nanomagnetic -8 points-7 points-6 points 15 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]CremasterGuy 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]nanomagnetic -5 points-4 points-3 points 15 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]NoahSwayne 6 points7 points8 points 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]nanomagnetic -3 points-2 points-1 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]nanomagnetic -3 points-2 points-1 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 15 years ago* (37 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]HerbalEssence 9 points10 points11 points 15 years ago* (24 children) | Copy Link

[–]PierceHarlan[S] 4 points5 points6 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]thetrollking 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]HerbalEssence 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 15 years ago* (17 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]HerbalEssence 15 points16 points17 points 15 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

"According to RAINN, of 200 rapes, 60 are reported. 40 of those go to trial, and 12 are convicted and serve jail time."

I appreciate your efforts at a fair & balanced argument, but the veracity of RAINN's claim "of 200 rapes, 60 are reported" is highly suspect. How would they know about the rapes, if they weren't reported? What evidence does RAINN use to back up the claim that of 200 rapes, 140 go unreported? What methodology is RAINN using to unearth facts about rapes that aren't reported to police? Satellite surveillance? Anonymous surveys? Psychics? I'm not trying to be funny. I don't understand how a statistic on unreported rapes can be researched and verified.

I also don't see evidence of a cause and effect link between rapists being found "not guilty" and a media reporting on false rape accusations.

Also, given the media's tendency to report the accused as "the rapist" rather than the "alleged rapist" seems to me to indicate a bias against the accused, not the accuser.

[+][deleted] 15 years ago* (15 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 15 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

2% stat - Susan Brownmiller asked a cop what she thought the actual rate was...that cop said "Probably about 2%", and since that time, this stat has been served up as hard-data FACT by Feminists the world over... Even having the stat repeatedly debunked does not slow the tide of feminists asserting this figure.

This type of behaviour is not new, and is also the source of the utter disdain feminists' 'research' is held in...

The FBI tracks cases that are 'unfounded' even after their incestigation into particularly troublesome cases. The FBI does NOT investigate rape claims unless they are referred to them by local police...who investigate the VAST majority of claims. In short, of the relatively few cases the FBI examines, ALL of them have been 'thoroughly investigated' before they are even referred. So most of these cases are the STRONGER evidence cases that are not 'slam dunk' easy. And the FBI does not track "false reports", they track "unfounded claims"...not the same thing.

As for the "scientific methods, multiple journals and decades of research that back these figures", I'm going to bet that ALL of this 'research' is actually Feminist advocacy research that wouldn't stand up to the light of outside investigation. Feminist 'peer review' is notorious for looking for the 'proper' outcome, NOT sound methodology...

Pretty much anyone with a pocketbook can fund a study to say anything they want....after all.

[–]thetrollking 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Even more is that they don't use the same definitions of rape/sexual assault. I have talked to my mom a lot about this, she is a second wave feminist and former chair of a local NOW chapter, and she talks about how hard feminists fought to get sexual assault laws passed to loosen or in their positions strengthen rape laws. It's a intentional muddying of the definition to expand womens privileges and legal rights while reducing mens.

A ex/ would be how they changed rape in marriage. Before that the laws looked at evidence like bruises and prosecuted under battery and assault type laws of the time. Changing rape/SA from a violent attack to a issue of consent allowed feminists to gain some real power in the legal system and was what they needed as 'proof' of their claims of wide spread rape at the time. What actually amazes me is how so many men backed it out of gut instinct to protect women while never looking around and questioning the obvious....some patriarchy huh? When the men are so loosely connected in society that they think all other men are the enemy.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 15 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 15 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -5 points-4 points-3 points 15 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 15 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]thetrollking 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]HerbalEssence 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]mafahimtch -7 points-6 points-5 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]HerbalEssence 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PierceHarlan[S] 6 points7 points8 points 15 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]HerbalEssence 4 points5 points6 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 15 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]PierceHarlan[S] 10 points11 points12 points 15 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Ms. Misandrist:

Just for you, I've gathered a few quotes from that bastion of conservatism, Prof. Alan Dershowitz. Chew on these:

“Rape is such a serious crime that deliberately bringing a false accusation of rape should be an equally serious crime and women are not being punished for those crimes. I believe that being falsely accused of rape is as traumatic as being raped.”

". . . the rules of evidence have been changed to make it easier to convict defendants of rape and harder to cross-examine alleged rape victims."

''The idea that these youngsters should be branded rapists and the girl should be labeled a victim is preposterous." (Addressing case where male teens who engaged in consensual sex with female teen should be prosecuted for statutory rape while the girl was not charged)

". . . objective data show that the problem of false rape reports is a serious one, and that the percentage of false reports in rape cases is considerably higher than the percentage of false reports for other violent felonies. One reason for this disparity is that the police rarely prosecute women who deliberately file false rape reports."

"How can you publish the name of the presumptively innocent accused but not the name of the accuser?"

[–]HerbalEssence 11 points12 points13 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]thetrollking 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 15 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points13 points 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

However, you must also agree that false accusations are the exception and that rapists getting off scott free is the rule, and that a major reason that rapists get off scott free is that no one believes victims - male or female.

No we don't. Especially considering that your statement is bullshit. It's Feminist assertions taken as fact, nothing more.

I don't hate men and I've defended male victims of rape - I've also counseled male rapists. I hate the sexist, homophobic, violent system we live in that victimizes men, women and children, and I'm sick of misguided people like you who perpetuate that culture through your ignorance.

You mean like this?

the reason that rapes are unpunished is that a man's reputation is more valuable than a victim's right to be live free of bodily harm. and by victim, I mean men, women and children. Far more men are raped every year than ever face a false accusation.

Why don't you complain about how you unjustly lost your job to a black man in r/whitesrights next?

and 126 upvotes? this is the part of reddit that i like the least. so many not very subtle, young, misogynist men.

ps i get that men have issues and crap thrown their way just because they are men. with you there. This is a bunch of mysogynist bullshit that perpetuates our system of letting rapists off scot free.

Yeah, your "love" for men comes shining through....

[+][deleted] 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 15 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 15 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 15 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 15 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]raptor6c 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ironwolfpack 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I agree that all false allegations are damaging, hence why perjury is a crime. I've worked in law offices before so believe me when I say that I've seen the damage of false accusations for any number of crimes can do to a person. However your statements regarding men who 'falsely accuse their ex-wives' of child abuse etc. You are working to represent those men and they very well could be telling the truth. If you're judging these men purely on speculation, i'm sure the same could be said for women who accuse their ex-husbands of child abuse etc. The thing about false rape-claims that I believe really grinds most mens' gears is that its pretty much a one way street for heterosexuals. I mean other than in some convoluted plan in which the man is either drugged, tied down, or anally penetrated by some sort of object its just not really possible for an adult woman to rape an adult man. Obviously for the reasons listed above the number of men being raped by women is quite low, and I'm sure the number of false rape accusations by men are even lower if there are any; merely because if you've been tied down, drugged or anally penetrated there's most likely going to be some physical evidence of that happening.

[–]thetrollking 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]leonard_x -7 points-6 points-5 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Comments