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UK: Why must every man on TV today be a monster? A tidal wave of male-hating shows depicts women as victims, this toxic sex war hurts us all

furchfur

November 17, 2021
914 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-10210237/As-wave-male-hating-shows-depicts-women-victims-BEL-MOONEY-fears-toxic-sex-war-hurts-all.html
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Title UK: Why must every man on TV today be a monster? A tidal wave of male-hating shows depicts women as victims, this toxic sex war hurts us all
Author

furchfur

Upvotes 914
Comments 134
Date November 17, 2021 12:47 AM UTC
(4 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/qvmtg3/uk_why_must_every_man_on_tv_today_be_a_monster_a/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/uk-why-must-every-man-on-tv-today-be-a-monster-a.1083730
https://theredarchive.com/post/1083730
Red Pill terms in post
feminism
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Comments

[–]Ok-Efficiency1842 130 points131 points132 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm shocked that was ever written. It won't gain any traction and nothing will change but it's still nice to see someone calling out the blatant misandry in pop culture.

[–]TheOtherNick 38 points39 points40 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well someone has to say something. We have to start calling out this bs.

I literally stormed out of Killing Eve during series 2 because I couldn’t stand the endless useless / evil men and thinly veiled penis-mutilation metaphors. Try producing a show where all women are idiots or aggressors, while making sly smirking gags about chopping off breasts… fucking disgusting.

[–]raisfor2 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Even then she can't help herself though. This line is telling

That mood of anger segued into something else around the time of the abduction and murder of Sarah Everard last March. Women felt enraged — and rightly so.

Nope, why should women rightly feel enraged? What happened to Sarah Everard was fucking awful. But it was one sick individual killing one poor innocent victim. Why should women everywhere feel enraged as if that's a personal attack on them? Indeed would they apply this logic elsewhere? If a black man shoots a white man should I, as a white person, be enraged? If a woman kills a man should I, as a man, be enraged?

It really does show their line of thinking very well. They truly believe anything bad that happens to one woman is an attack on all of them. It's insane. Indeed in the case mentioned the guy got pretty much the highest prison sentence ever in the UK - more than serial killers - so they weren't enraged due to lack of justice. But they truly believe that if anything bad happens to a woman that is a personal attack on them and completely unacceptable. Doesn't matter how much bad shit happens to men or other groups.

It really just shows how ridiculous the hivemind is. One woman being murdered apparently justified women across the country being enraged and deciding that society hated women. Doesn't matter that men get murdered more, or the fact this was one single person, or that swift and very VERY severe punishment was given, all that mattered was 1 woman was murdered, I am a woman, therefore this is a personal attack on me, therefore society hates me and is unfair to me.

The fact anyone can have the audacity to say that this is justified is beyond me. They literally decided that an awful experience happening to one woman was proof that women as a whole are oppressed and constantly under attack. Imagine if men did this. Indeed some woman once murdered a man for not having sex with her, does that mean men everywhere should be enraged and view this as society hating men?

It does explain how feminism can even exist today. They have it better than any other group. But they treated any bad thing that happens to anyone in their group at any time as an attack on every single person in the group including them. Could be a rich upper class woman who has never worked a day in her life, but another woman got murdered and she'll use that as proof to be enraged and play victim.

You are never "rightfully" justified in deciding your group is oppressed because sometimes bad things happen to people in your group. If they happen disproportionately or no justice is done then yes maybe. But for women it's the opposite, they happen much below the average and punishment is always much more severe. Yet even that isn't good enough for them.

[–]Raychao 53 points54 points55 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I've been wondering who the actors are too.. Imagine being cast as 'you are going to be this horrible monster hiding in plain sight.. The narrative is going to constantly be reminding the audience that you are at worst a bad guy and at best a person who is conflicted and takes that conflict out on your family in horrible ways..'

Great way for the audience to unwind after work!

[–]Broken_Successor 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Wait so you think nobody has ever played a bad guy before?

[–]qaldyari 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I doubt so much that it is just the single act of playing a bad guy, but more the repeated never ending casting of bad guys. Now imagine a struggling young actor consistently casted over and over in roles where he is the bad guy. At some point it begins to effect a person mentally. So not only are we filling the audiences mind with repeating pattern that all men=evil but we also are reinforcing it in the actors heads as well.

[–]Broken_Successor 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Are you stupid? If this was the only kind of media that existed then sure but men are literally cast in every role ever and the idea that the men are the heroes and the good guys is much more popular.

If you think a character actor can’t stay in touch with reality you clearly don’t know what you’re on about.

[–]DekajaSukunda 117 points118 points119 points 4 years ago (37 children) | Copy Link

Detox yourselves from anglosaxon media. Especially American media. The internet has made this easier than ever.

What I detest about American media nowadays is it's patronizing tone when it adresses any issue. They are almost always trying to push an agenda on you or change your mind about something, in a very obviously politicized (dare I say, partisan?) manner. Pop culture used to avoid being too obviously political, now they made it trendy.

I feel like movies and series from other countries are usually much better at telling you a story and letting the story speak for itself. Draw your own conclusions.

Anyway. I think adressing how men are portrayed in the media is important and an interesting discussion to have. But let's also not forget watching these dumb shows and movies is optional, and now more than ever before, people are spoiled with endless other options for entertainment.

[–]dungeonmonkey69 20 points21 points22 points 4 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

Hear hear! Seppo shows and movies are absolute dogshit. Remember that it works hand in hand with state propagandists. Also follow the money. Blackrock and vanguard hedge funds will be not far from any woke horseshit getting pumped out of the states atm 9/10 times.

[–]DekajaSukunda 31 points32 points33 points 4 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

Yeah and frankly Americans have been at the helm of globalization for too long. All cultures in the world have become Americanized to some degree, and it's affecting politics everywhere. I keep reading people in my country try to apply American terms to discuss race issues, completely ignoring our histories with racial issues are entirely different. And why are they doing this? Because of American media (not just entertainment, press too).

Nothing against the American individuals here. But it'd do the world a lot of good to start abstaining from their culture. Hell Americans themselves seem to hate their culture more than anyone at times lol.

[–]dungeonmonkey69 17 points18 points19 points 4 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Yeah American exceptionalism is toxic as fuck. Not to mention they apply their identitarianism with the same sense of exceptionalism to the rest of the world when the history is utterly different. It's pretty disgusting how American fundamentals have just become defacto concepts. My old man actually did his PhD On this kind of brain rot in academia and the elitism of western (in particular American) academia and it's complete dismissal of history and concepts outside their own sphere of influence and language. Their woke culture has become as imperialist as their military and their vulture capitalist oligarchs

[–]DekajaSukunda 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

My old man actually did his PhD On this kind of brain rot in academia and the elitism of western (in particular American) academia and it's complete dismissal of history and concepts outside their own sphere of influence and language.

Ugh totally and this fucks up education across the whole globe (especially in Humanities careers) because American colleges are regarded as the pinnacle of higher education, and it's pretty much impossible for you to study a Humanities career without reading a sizeable bunch of American authors.

And in this sense it sucks because I say abstain from American culture... but hell, if I had the possibility to study in the USA I'd take it in the blink of an eye. That opens so many doors for you. Just putting that on your CV - that you studied in the USA - can get you a job. Even if it's just a short course on an irrelevant community college.

[–]thetarget3 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Damn, where are you from? Here America is seen as a fun place to go on exchange, but nothing special unless you go to MIT or such.

[–]DekajaSukunda 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Latin America.

Are you European? I can imagine it's different there. European education is also highly regarded here as well, but American education is probably more sought-after because of the geographical proximity.

[–]thetarget3 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, Danish. I would say our universities are definitely on par with American, some better, some worse.

[–]dungeonmonkey69 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I wouldn't go there to study either. Plenty of great uni's in my own country. Makes sense though from a Latin American perspective though

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I am one who believes that colleges are seeing the "worth" or "value" of the education they SELL people, diminishing very quickly. This has always been a cash-grab, and that is true now, more than ever. I see it as a waste of four years, and over $100,000.

[–]ARedditorCalledQuest 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

RE: Your old man's PhD... Was there a paper or some kind of academic product that came out of that? I'd love to read it. It sounds interesting.

[–]dungeonmonkey69 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I'll have to ask him what journal it was published in etc but it was a doctorate in communications. I spoke to him recently and he's rewriting a few things for it. It's main focus was on academics themselves and barriers in research cooperation like language, geopolitical status, political status etc. He worked with a lot of scientists in the developing world when he was younger like Laos/Cambodia and Samoa/Fiji etc on things like rainforest and reef conservation but a lot of them had trouble having their research published in the west because English is a second (or third) language for a lot of them and unfortunately American (and to an extent British) hegemony on academia means they had trouble getting the research out there or translated etc. To a lesser extent worked with scientists in Latin America too but more to research for his PhD. Was in the states a year before covid doing some talks on his findings.

[–]ARedditorCalledQuest 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Please DM me if you find the details on where I can look it up. This 100% sounds like the kind of thing I would enjoy looking at.

[–]dungeonmonkey69 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah sure no probs! 😊

[–]jadedlonewolf89 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I would like to read that study as well.

[–]peanutbutterjams 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

It's ironic how many people rail against colonialism but love Disney.

American media is cultural colonialism. It's swamping the indigenous culture in favour of American media, filled with American terms, perspectives and attitudes, all of which are mapped onto impressionable youth.

There will be a reckoning for this one day.

[–]DekajaSukunda 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That Disney thing is so true. This subtle Americanization of the masses starts from childhood. It's not just Disney, but all cartoons. Thank God Japan invented anime so kids have at least another alternative.

This feels like a cultural revolution to me tbh. Like my friends keep talking shit about Americans and globalization. Start practicing what you preach. Not just with your wallet, but with your brain. Don't fucking watch these shows and movies. Don't read those articles. I don't care if you're not paying. Do-colonize your brain from American indoctrination.

[–]peanutbutterjams 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Mind if I ask where you're from? I'm interested in this issue so it would be helpful to know.

Suprisingly, Netflix is a good antidote. I've watched quite a few foreign films and series that I've loved: South Korean, Indian, Hong Kong/Chinese, Japanese, Belgian, French, Russian. Each of these have a movie or series I love.

On the flip side, it's depressing how American all of it is. I guess there's only so many ways of telling a story but...nobody had the chance to mesh their culture with the technology of video without outside influence. Only Americans got that chance.

I guess that was unavoidable, given how quickly culture is shared and internalized. I wonder if in the future some people who still have a close connection to their indigenous culture would agree to conceive and raise their kids in a culture bubble with no outside contact.

I imagine the scientific data would be profitable, as would their introduction to certain art forms.

Or maybe there's only so many ways to tell a story and all the countries I mentioned above haven't had time enough for a national media with a global audience to sharpen and explore their cultural idiosyncrasies.

Anyways. Yeah. :)

[–]OkAccountant2598 -5 points-4 points-3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Blame, blame, blame. Besides things that occured when you were an infant. You play a role in every single negative and positive event in your life. Period. Any disagreement is a denial. Got hit by a school bus? You chose to cross the street there. An extreme example. Why don't I have a better job. A wife. More stable home. Nobody's fault but mine. If that depresses you, your being a pussy, cause that's life buddy.

[–]positEVentualities 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wow what an inane ramble complete unrelated to anything

[–]peanutbutterjams 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If you disagree with me, feel free to explain why. Because this comment makes no sense.

[–]Ryssaroori 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Americans have been at the helm of globaliztaion

affecting politics

They've now come up with the theory that my country (ruled at the time by another foreihn power) is actually fully responsible of the slave trade, because the ruling elite sold tar to shipmakers

[–]Legitimate-Ad-6267 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't think any country should be in that position. But on the bright side, India might hit superpower status relatively soon, so there's some share of power.

[–]ohisama 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

This is happening everywhere, not just the anglosaxon media.

[–]TheNerdWonder 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I dunno. Western pop culture never hid its agenda. What changed is that it allowed some room for things other than what we presently see.

[–]DekajaSukunda 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

They never hid it, but I don't think they ever pushed it down our throats as shamelessly as it's done now.

[–]TheNerdWonder 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh they did. We just didn't mind because actual politics weren't as crazy. We are all guilty on that front.

[–]DekajaSukunda 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well. That's a good point lol.

[–]Broken_Successor 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Haven’t women been portrayed worse in media in almost every way? And it’s only in the last decade or two that has started to change?

If you want more shows where women are villains then fair enough but men playing the villain isn’t misandry lmao. Especially when many of the stories are believable and actually happen.

The “agenda” is to tell a story. And of course the creators have their views and that will be represented in their work. It is THIER work, why wouldn’t they have their views in it?

Also why do you male abusers to all men? These series show abusers and why they suck. That’s not man hating that’s abuser hating?

[–]DekajaSukunda 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

First of all, I didn't make any specific mention of how men are portrayed in the media except for the last paragraph, were I said these shows can be easily ignored. You're just making a bunch of strawmans here and arguing with ghosts.

Haven’t women been portrayed worse in media in almost every way? And it’s only in the last decade or two that has started to change?

Define "worse". Having less representation? Less protagonic roles? Influencing the story less? Could you provide me a list of shows and movies from past decades were men were portrayed being raped and violently beaten by their wives?

Didn't these changes start happening because feminists were complaining that if girls grew up seeing more women in protagonic roles and with succesful careers, they'd feel more inspired to be like the women in those shows? Didn't they complain that portraying women in submissive and irrelevant roles taught them to be submissive and irrelevant irl?

men playing the villain isn’t misandry lmao. Especially when many of the stories are believable and actually happen.

There's latino immigrants that go live in the USA border to live off drug trafficking. This is a believable and real story that actually happens. Are latinos not allowed to be bothered by these portrayals?

How do you measure how a stereotype harms people? How it influences the outcomes in courts? Men don't have a nearly certain chance of being convicted for rape if accused (far from it), but we are much more likely to be convicted for it than women, and if we are, we will likely receive a much longer sentence. So maybe this talk about male stereotypes actually matters?

And of course the creators have their views and that will be represented in their work. It is THIER work, why wouldn’t they have their views in it?

They can put their views on their work, but when their view is the only one that gets mass-produced and exported you start wondering why that is.

And I was also never asking for creators to be censored or to change the way they write. I was simply saying people can look into other options and not consume this. Which is totally within my right.

These series show abusers and why they suck. That’s not man hating that’s abuser hating?

The article is talking about series where all the abusers are men and all the men are abusers. Join the dots. And also, "this movie is about drug trafficking and why it sucks, it's not hating on latinos even if all the violent drug-related criminals are latinos, it's just drug cartel-hating"

[–]Broken_Successor 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Your last point just shows how stupid you are. If you see a show like narcos and think “wow all Latinos must be like that” then you’re brain dead.

Also “worse” in every way, the ways you mentioned and again in literally any other possible way. Also there are films and shows where women are evil. Even huge mainstream films like gone girl?

And your points about the problems and how many women wanted change is pretty accurate. I’m not sure what your point behind it is.

Are you saying it’s racist to tell a true story about a drug cartel?

Also men have something like a 4% conviction rate for rape so you whining saying “buh women worse” is beyond stupid. Especially seeing as the overwhelming majority of lawyers, judges, police officers, politicians etc have been and are men so the group to blame for literally all the problems you are describing are men.

There has never been any systemic or widespread exploitation of men by women anywhere in the world ever. All the problems you have with “men’s rights” or problems like suicide or court cases etc are all to do with men and other men. Women haven’t had the power of influence to make these problems.

So all your logic here is stupid but are you forgetting and the infinite amount of films and shows where the men are always the heroes and the strong stoic good guys that define masculinity. They don’t need to show emotion, can sexually harass people and must look a certain way. These are much more damaging surely?

So with these tv shows it’s not an attack on men it’s literally stories being told that used to be too taboo. Nobody watches them and wants to be like that so it doesn’t create more abusers and unless you are an abuser nobody is going to see men in these shows and then apply that to all men.

[–]DekajaSukunda 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Your last point just shows how stupid you are. If you see a show like narcos and think “wow all Latinos must be like that” then you’re brain dead.

I didn't say all latinos were like that. I said latinos are entitled to have a problem with these portrayals.

Also “worse” in every way, the ways you mentioned and again in literally any other possible way.

Ellaborate.

Even huge mainstream films like gone girl?

A few exceptions here and there don't change the rule.

And your points about the problems and how many women wanted change is pretty accurate. I’m not sure what your point behind it is.

That if women feel their portrayals on media affect the way girls perceive themselves irl, why can't we think the same about boys? This was so obvious I didn't think I need to specify.

Are you saying it’s racist to tell a true story about a drug cartel?

I said latinos are allowed to feel conflicted about these portrayals.

Also men have something like a 4% conviction rate for rape so you whining saying “buh women worse” is beyond stupid.

I explicitly said men are unlikely to be convicted for rape, and I never said women are worse, but that they are less likely to be convicted.

Especially seeing as the overwhelming majority of lawyers, judges, police officers, politicians etc have been and are men so the group to blame for literally all the problems you are describing are men.

Conflating "men" with "society" as interchangeable concepts. Sigh. So typical. I wasn't even blaming women on this. And also, female lawyers and judges are the ones that push the hardest to convict men more harshly than women.

There has never been any systemic or widespread exploitation of men by women anywhere in the world ever.

Strawman. Quote me on when I said that.

All the problems you have with “men’s rights” or problems like suicide or court cases etc are all to do with men and other men.

OMG. Here we go again. I'm already writing enough, I'm not getting started on this bullshit.

Women haven’t had the power of influence to make these problems.

Strawman. Quote me on when I said that.

So all your logic here is stupid but are you forgetting and the infinite amount of films and shows where the men are always the heroes and the strong stoic good guys that define masculinity.

And I have problems with those portrayals as well, but this article was about the negative portrayals, so I focused on that.

They don’t need to show emotion, can sexually harass people and must look a certain way.

I don't recall any Marvel movies were the heroes were sexually harrassing anyone.

Nobody watches them and wants to be like that so it doesn’t create more abusers and unless you are an abuser nobody is going to see men in these shows and then apply that to all men.

Did girls watch those shows from decades ago and thought "oh, I wanna be just like this irrelevant housewife in that sitcom! I wanna get bossed around by my husband and never make any meaningful changes to anything!" It's almost like it's more complex than that.

[–]Broken_Successor 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

This is just sad. There is more cinema than marvel movies.

Also with the part about women seeing housewives and wanting to be like that.

The problem was that there was no other media. Basically all women in media were side characters or housewives. That was all women ever saw so they couldn’t see examples of women being anything else. Now that there is more variety, people are not as restrained.

If the only media that depicted men showed all men to be abusers (which these shows don’t even do it’s like 1 character in each show) then that would be a comparable problem but that is not even close to reality.

Almost all women were written by men’s men because most men were sexist to some extent that meant the portrayal wasn’t great. In the last few decades that has started to change and now there is more variety. In fact having variety for men and showing the reality of what many families and relationships are actually like is even better for everyone because it makes it clear what is wrong and makes the topics less taboo.

Also it’s not an “exception”. Gone girl showed that crime drama/thrillers can be just as successful with a female “villain” but it is also much rarer for that to even happen so if there was a surge (which is actually becoming a bit of a trend with films like Ma, Us, Last night in Soho, maybe even MFA) it’s not about being representative of what is real.

Also it’s not conflating men with society I’m making clear the systemic problems this sub complains about were created by men.

[–]DekajaSukunda 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You said:

infinite amount of films and shows where the men are always the heroes and the strong stoic good guys that define masculinity. They don’t need to show emotion, can sexually harass people and must look a certain way.

When have the heroes in those stories gotten away with sexual harrassment?

As for the thing about portrayals of female characters back then. Ok. I'll give you that point. The thing is I don't think the "non-abusive" portrayals of male characters in American media nowadays are positive, either. I rarely find male characters in American media that I can identify with. There's variety, and not all of them are bad people, but I find the vast majority of them to be terribly written characters I can hardly relate to. The bumbling idiot stereotype bothers me more than the abuser boyfriend tbh. And, imo, stories written by women usually portray men just as negatively (if not much worse) than those shows from decades ago portrayed women. If all portrayals are trash, what do I do? Go look somewhere else.

As for Gone Girl and those other films you listed. I found those stories to be really over the top and implausible. Kinda like I wouldn't consider Cate Blanchett's character in that Thor movie to be the kind of female villain I think needs more representation. I think those are just villains that happen to be female. And I also think these movies are fairly rare.

Chiron's mother in Moonlight is the kind of "villain" I'm talking about. Growing up with an abusive mom, that's a character I could relate to, and that's the kind of female-on-male emotional abuse (it happens with mothers and sons, husbands and wives) that is hardly ever represented.

Representing this type of abuse helps to make it more visible, but if it's only one form of abuse that gets most of the stories, the message that's sent there is that this is the only abusive dynamic that exists.

But I'd just like to repeat... I'm not pushing to censor this media or anything. I just don't want to consume it anymore. Sexist stereotypes are just one of many, many problems I have with American culture. Americans have been at the helm of cultural globalization for too long and it's about damn time to change that.

Also it’s not conflating men with society I’m making clear the systemic problems this sub complains about were created by men.

They were created by a very few people in society. Blaming "men" for men's problems invisibilizes all the class, race, political, etc. issues that caused this. Most of the kings, oligarchs, presidents, senators, etc. that put those laws in place had wives and daughters that also benefitted from how those hierarchies were established and were most likely just as bigoted as them. When you flatly blame men for men's issues without adressing this, you're pretending the pawn is at the same level as the king.

[–]Broken_Successor 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

My point literally shows it’s about class by saying it’s men vs men and the thing that separates them is class?

Also given the excess of media available if you can’t find a character you relate to then you clearly just haven’t looked or you just have no empathy.

As for the sexual harassment these are generally older films with manly men grabbing women or whatever. Also tropes of how the girl is the goal/object of the film with endless pursuit.

If your complaint is that some characters are poorly written then fine. Trash movies are trash. No one disagrees.

Your comment about female writers is just stupid. Many female writers may write about men in a bad way but that’s not “low quality” it’s filling a huge gap in storytelling. Shows like “You” show a man who is a degenerate sex pest murderer but that is not the same as what male writers did before. It wasn’t intentional they just didn’t see women as worth writing or thinking about. Whereas female writers now will have characters like the ones in the article above. The characters are detailed and interesting. They’re terrible human beings but they have lots of effort put into them that is the point. This isn’t comparable to women being background characters.

The films I listed were over the top but that’s the point it’s meant to be an exciting and never before seen story otherwise it could be boring.

If you want more films like moonlight then sure, it was a great film. I don’t see how you can complain about there being male on female emotional abuse but then advocate for more representation of female on male emotional abuse when the reasons to have either are the exact same.

American media is becoming less sexist. Stop seeing more women as just being less men.

[–]DekajaSukunda 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

This is the first time you mention class in this argument. You said "the group to blame for men's problems are men" while listing a bunch of people in positions of power most men don't belong to and sought to mantain the privileges of themselves and the women around them. If it's a class issue then say it's a class issue. You literally said it's men's fault as opposed to women's when I never even blamed women for anything.

I've watched enough American media in my life to come to the conclusion non-American entertains me and represents me more. Starting by the media of my own country that depicts my own culture. I'm not going to keep looking and waste my free time watching shows I most likely won't enjoy. I'm not even American so I don't understand this insistence of yours that I'm supposed to keep consuming this foreign culture until I can identify with it. Is it wrong for me to dislike American political discourse? Is it wrong for me to dislike the way Americans frame gender issues and prefer seeing them in other media? Is it wrong to dislike the USA in general, considering all the damage it has done and influence it has had on the world?

I was not talking about old films, I was talking about the current state of media. Of course Clint Eastwood films in the '70s could be problematic. Those aren't characters I relate to or crave seeing more of either. Why do you keep replying to arguments I didn't make?

I didn't judge the quality of the writing (though I find American shows and movies to be poorly written in general, regardless of the author's gender). And I also fail to understand how "this is better because they are deliberately writing the men to be terrible" is supposed to be a counterargument to what I said. I'm aware that's the intention they had. I said I went looking elsewhere because I felt these portrayals felt patronizing. There are non-American shows that portray gender-related issues in a far less patronizing, simplistic and partisan-tinted ways than Americans tend to do imo. Off the top of my head I can mention Spanish show La Veneno and Romanian film 4 months 3 weeks 2 days.

As for female on male abuse... I said if we're gonna have one depiction without the other it paints an incomplete image. I wasn't complaining about these issues being depicted but how they are depicted. Let me quote the comment you first replied to:

What I detest about American media nowadays is it's patronizing tone when it adresses any issue. They are almost always trying to push an agenda on you or change your mind about something, in a very obviously politicized (dare I say, partisan?) manner. Pop culture used to avoid being too obviously political, now they made it trendy.

I feel like movies and series from other countries are usually much better at telling you a story and letting the story speak for itself. Draw your own conclusions.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Unfortunately the group you would need to convince, to stop watching, are the ones who are "entertained" by this type of thing.

I stopped watching television a few years ago because it became very apparent that the industry is full of pedo's, and I refuse to support them. Same story with movies.

Under the guise of "tolerance" these fringe groups have also started to become popular in modern entertainment. When I watched StarTrek shows, the last thing I wanted to see, is PDA by gay people. The only group that would be popular with, are those shown in the program, and that's not me.

How do you "speak" to this and show disapproval? I spoke by not supporting them any longer; not watching their shows, not buying their merchandise, not subscribing to cable tv, etc.

In the recent past, this has started happening with video games. Most gamers don't fit into this fringe group. The reaction from the gamers wasn't good, and the title has been mocked and exiled by many. Pre-orders were cancelled, when it became apparent that there were characters in the game which most people don't identify with personally. There is an easy solution to this problem as well; don't support them, and the cancelled pre-orders were a strong message to the game publisher. I go further, and put that company on a never-buy list, because I don't want to support them, ever. The game publisher invested many many millions into a game which won't be able to produce a profit, because of the controversy. I used to really like their titles, and purchased many of them over the years. Now, I won't give them a penny of my money, ever again. I'm sad that I supported them in any way now.

I think many people (mostly younger people) think it is some sort of honor-badge to be "woke" and "tolerant". They do this because nobody has shown them that they can instead, stand against something, if they choose to do so. They see people around them, (with weak character and/or no morals) who support this kind of garbage. The media glorifies being part of this fringe group, and actually marginalizes them, for a profit. The ones being exploited just see it as exposure, and think they're being treated well by being included. Little do they know, when I see something I dislike, I stop watching.

It's kind of funny too, because a certain gay news anchor who happens to be black & married to a white man, calls all white people racists and white supremacist's. I guess he enjoys being part of that, in his own home. Otherwise, why would he be with that person? As the media cries "systemic racism exists everywhere", they don't bother to remember just a few years ago we had a black president. Don't you think he would have called this out, if it was real, while he was president? I think he would have.

I think that racism was at a low-point during our lifetime, until the lefties started rioting across the country. Rioters didn't stop to check if a business was owned by a black person or a white person; they just burned whatever was at hand. Now, apparently it's racist to own an electronics repair shop, or a wendy's. The riots killed more people than the cops did, in the last couple years.

[–]Ok_Research219 31 points32 points33 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Show me the remake of the movie Misery. I doubt that’ll happen.

[–]GoldenGanderz 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I mean lizzy Caplan was playing the same evil psychotic murderous character in castle rock

[–]Ok_Research219 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

If you looked at the movie and the show you can see the differences on how that character was portrayed.

[–]GoldenGanderz 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

What differences are those? I thought lizzy Caplin did a great job portraying the sickly sweet psych killer nurse.

[–]windkirby -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

She did do a good job. But to fair, it was a Misery prequel, not Misery. And it was mostly about Annie's chokehold on her misunderstood lesbian daughter. At least, I think that's what happened in-between all the mind-numbing body snatching scenes. Caplan was the only good part of the mess that sadly was season two.

[–]GoldenGanderz 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah the body snatching and the Somali family drama was quite boring. And i know it was a prequel to misery, my point was that there ate still evil women on film, some are even the same evil female characters from years ago.

[–]mistralol 29 points30 points31 points 4 years ago (31 children) | Copy Link

I actually stopped watching most shows, films, tv series etc.. about 2 years ago. Don't have a TV signal in the house (havn't for 10 years). Current don't have any subscription services.

Why? Very simple I got board of the same plot lines with the same twists and pretty much the same cast trying to be something they are not.

You look at modern shows now and you can just see that they are pushing diversity and massivly sacrificing quality in the process.

It really comes down to a mentaity like this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35XunecP_sg&t=200s

Where she says men should go and see movies she had made failing to realize that the movies she makes are fucking shite.

Notice this a long time ago about 20+ years. The drama's at the time just turned into people screaming at each other in a lot of the TV series. Also realized this was then leaking into modern male / female releationships at the time as well. So if you have ever wondered why some people are constantly fighting in releationships its because they took their example from the TV as children/teenagers and thats how they percived/learned how "differences should be resolved"

Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2h3INkHWDQ

Another: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5isy3qkxro

[–]DekajaSukunda 14 points15 points16 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I actually stopped watching most shows, films, tv series etc.. about 2 years ago.

Same, except for longer. Most of the media I consume now comes from Japan. Japan has its own problems, mind you. I'm not saying it's perfect. But it's less patronizing and I find Japanese tropes and cliches less annoying than those of anglosaxon media.

It wasn't even a conscious choice until recently. I just found myself so bored and annoyed by American media in general. I had trouble keeping up.

[–]Legitimate-Ad-6267 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Despite being underpaid and overworked, anime artists put out some high quality stuff.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (24 children) | Copy Link

Where she says men should go and see movies she had made failing to realize that the movies she makes are fucking shite.

This has pushed my buttons I have to say.

I think being in this sub is turning me into a woman hater! OR, am I just waking up! OR maybe I'm getting tired of seeing the same old shit on the 'screen'? OR, just waking up to a lot of stuff that is presented 'as normal' - when it is far from normal (in my world anyway).

I think the thing I would like to re-enforce for myself and many others is that 'some of the more violent actions shown on our screens 'are not normal'. Yes, I live a privileged life where I can walk around the streets and not see 'cars flying through the air, bombs going off, men abusing anyone within arms length, groups of women roaming the planet saving the world'.

As I watch her interview I'm just amazed - I do not select a movie, deliberately, because it was made by a man! I go and see a movie because I might be interested in it! It is 'not my fault' that more men have made movies than women!!! Quite frankly is she so dumb to think that there are men on this planet who have ordered the 'script' to be the way it is? Yes, it is re-enforced because people go to the movies and watch the movies she is trying to not make, but at the end of the day we have all been sold 'this is what entertainment is' and that is my next point - I'm starting, slowly, to think about what is Entertainment and 'maybe I should be more selective'!!

OOOOOOHHHHH and then she says 'we do that to by the way' and smiles ever so sweet/sarcastic... what a piece of work she is... honestly... "but only after we have exhausted some other really interesting sheanigans.' So even she resorts to the shit she is trying to avoid because she ???????? Wants to sell a movie and make money !!!!????

​

Honestly, if she talks like this I do not want to 'consciously' choose to see one of her movies...

And Charlie's Angels and the idea is so damn old...

then I read some of the comments and the first one I read says: Take a moment. She's literally telling me what i must to watch and where i need to put my money(in her wallet in that case) And if i don't want to obey i am a toxic sexist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35XunecP_sg&t=200s

​

Sorry for the rant but honestly.

I've been watching a lot of German criminal movies so my German would improve but some of them, and not just German movies I think, are so violent in the way they show a body being shot or the details of how the person is hunted and killed... bring back Miss Marple where the movie is about how smart the people trying to find the killer is, rather than the focus being on portraying how horrible the world is every living second we are out our front doors -and in some cases behind the door of course.

In fact I would like to thank Elizabeth Banks for this interview and alerting me to how horrible movies have moved away, for me, from entertaining and into a realm of madness and evil and portraying the Human Being as a monster.

I should stop typing... but... I will not...

In fact I'm glad to have seen this interview... it reminds me of when first in therapy and then one time I was told off in a group therapy situation, 'you are to angry' - and all these years later I think to myself 'what the fuck!' I've not been angry enough and if I cannot show it in therapy where the hell am I supposed to show it you f***ing idiots...

In fact watching Elizabeth Banks, 'I should be angry' at having such shit shoved down my throat all these years..from anyone.

I'm sure she is someones lovely mother/daughter/lover/friend and that is wonderful.

I saw a quote from Roman Polanski:

"You know, whenever you do something new and original, people run to see it because it's different. Then, if it happens to be successful, the studios rush to imitate it. It becomes commonplace right away. But it's been like that before, I think. Now, the stakes are so gigantic that they cut each other's throats. So if most of the films are failures, then those that succeed so spectacularly, so commercially, become the norm. It's like a roulette for the studios. The problem with it is that it becomes more and more of a committee. Before, you dealt with the studio. It had one or two persons and now you have masses of executives who have to justify their existence and write so-called "creative notes" and have creative meetings. They obsess about the word creative probably because they aren't." * "Roman Polanski: An Exclusive Interview" by Taylor Montague

​

Anyway, finally end of rant and what I wish to leave with is: we must all learn (particularly me) to separate what is reality in our (my) lives/life and what is presented to us all in the many forms of 'media' as reality when it is 'their' wanting to make money and/or fulfil their own egoistic desires and good on them for doing it I might add...

​

Edit: I'm not really a woman hater.. badly worded maybe..

[–]mistralol 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

Its not aimed at women hating. It just so happens that she is a women and no director who valued their career male or female have ever made such a statement.

But her entire sentance is a lie. Cause there is also plenty of films in the past that had a strong female lead eg aliens

[–]jadedlonewolf89 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

GI Jane, Stepmom, Dancing at the blue iguana, twirly girl, the girl with the dragon tattoo, driving miss daisy, Ruth, Anne of green gables and Anne of Avonlee the older ones, Fire Starter, Guarding Tess, the color purple, Dolores Claiborne, and fried green tomatoes to name a few more.

The belief that a strong female roles has to be the female acting like a man gets on my last nerve.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

you are right with aliens... but I cannot truly watch it without being traumatised...

​

good point: no director who valued their career

[–]mistralol 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Thats thing thing about it.... this still is actually killing their own careers cause its not being recived well by men or women in the public domain.

If Aliens is too much. there always Terminator as another example.

Here Take this indian girls take on why modern woke movies sucks. She does a way better job of what I can explain in this textbox :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqmd4iU8J3k

The main part of that is that the charaters are coming out with lines which are put down of men with a dose of identiy politics. eg the charaters are coming out as rude, obnoxious, entitled and sexist.

Like the other post that somebody replied to you. Was basically any critical remakrs is met with oh thats just an incels, sexist whatever..... cause they cannot actually defend their points/actions with any other argument.

This isn't about women hating at all. Its simply not a reflection on how people get on with each other in real life or the people around them.

Like the closest expirences in real life these people are coming out with are the same women who do something like "Pfftt. Men I hate all men" with men present in a group then 5 minutes later. Asks a guy out gets rejected and can't seem to understand why men don't want to date her. This is what the modern woke charaters are doing in the movies.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for the link. I'm blown away by some of this. Cannot say anything other than that. Interesting is a cheap call to use that word.

I'm kind of reminded of: what if everyone was paid a basic income? What would people do then? some people might create wonderful new inventions that assist human beings in good ways, others might sit at home and do nothing - for me, I don't want to be disturbed by either of these people. As I said earlier, I hope, I don't choose a movie, mostly, because the director/writer/producer was x gender. It might be that I like their style and the person is a female or a trans person...

One of my fave German crime movies/series is called 'Chefin' The main character is a Female Cop. I like the Actress, the series and there are others where the main character is a Male and I like that one too.

Some of what is said in the link you sent reminds me of the: do women dress for men or other women? I don't care, but lets just get it real. Do men go to the gym for women or other men? I don't care but lets get real about the intentions. I dress mostly for myself and a portion for my male Partner and friends but that part is smaller... Maybe it is ridiculous I say this but I've certainly thought it.

Things are certainly interesting in our societies around the world. People are becoming more conscious and more individual.

[–]mistralol 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

What would people do then?

Well thats quite easy for me. If I had a way to pay for minimum living. My lifestyle would be immeidatly shifted from working to sailing / windsurfing and it would be completly non productive to the econemy. Its been discussed in those groups and also 100% of the groups would follow.

What interesting is a lot of those groups are made up of doctors, nurses, dentists, engineers, sw deve, managers, accountants, lawyers and most of the top end of society in terms of professions. Which would basically walk out the door.

I would guess most people would be simular. They would pursue what they are pashionate about in life. Art, Music basically their hobbies would becomes priority number one. Sometimes inventing things is a hobbie for many so yes you will get some of these things.

The problem with that is very much it doesn't make the world go round any more. People are not going to "pickup bins" for you if they don't have to. I dont' imagine many (if any) stepping forward for any of the dirty jobs.....

> I don't choose a movie, mostly, because the director/writer/producer was x gender.

I don't either. I wasn't actually impliying that. You get good directors and you get bad directors of any gender. There certinally plenty of male directors who's films are shit if not worse. Funny enough people don't watch them either.... But I have still never heard any of them stand up and complain about 50% of their customers like that. They take the feedback on board and they try to improve. Not bulldoze their way to success with the excuse "I am a women". statment like these are very simple. If you replace the male / female terms in all places. How would women have reacted to a male director stating the same thing? Even the men would lose all respect for him.

> do women dress for men or other women?

From my point of view its mostly for other women. From my background and sports. I am used to girls who are not frightened of getting dirty / wet and generally look like a mess. The men in those circles have absolutly no problem of accepting them. Only when your in that state and your walking down the road looking like a drowned rat because you have been in the rain for last 2-3 hours if you pass men you never get any strange looks stares or anything else. Its simply taken "as is" when you pass women always they give snide remarks, death stares and giggles as they slag the girl off. Thats my personal expirence and I have seen this happens 100's of times.

When women wear the same dress twice. All the comments come from the women not the men.

For me personally. I don't like girls who dress up constantly or overdress. Wear a ton of makeup or wear designer good. I actually prefere a competant/practicle women who will wear jeans and a t-shirt. How somebody dresses is less important than me than what they have to offer. Theres simply a time and a place for it. Your going to a formal dinner then its expected. Outside of situations like that I could not care other than its important to dress for what your doing. Not what you want to advertise or be percived as. Otherwise your coming across as something your not aka fake....

I certinally know some women. Some are ex's that I would have found attractive when they were young who had put on weight (more than you should) by the time they hit their 30's. They would spend 1-2 hours every day doing makeup and would not leave the house without it. But yet if they went to the gym for 30 minutes per day didn't wear any makeup they would actually do better. Simply because they are not overweight.

You can also tell almost immedialty if a guy went to a gym because he wants to look good vs fitness reasons. The fit guys won't go mucles size etc.. they will go pure for fitness and range of strength. In fact I have seen some of the "mucles" guys come onto a boat and be replaced by a teenage girl within 2-3 hours on a winch because they pulled all their muscles out and the girl sailed the boat like that for the next 4 days stright and did the same job. Its basically looks != strength != stamina.

Theres actually a few "upmarket clubs" in the centre of the city here. I have been to them a few times. I won't be back ever to them. The entire impression I got of most of the people I got from the room was that everyone was trying to be something they are not. Basically everyone was fake because they had almost nothing else to offer. I wasn't the only person who had that impression of the place and the people there.

Another personal perspective. I work as a SW dev. Women who come into the teams who attempt to use their sexuality to get something instantly loose respect of their peers. Women who come into the team who just come in and just "do the job" don't have a problem and dress choice has an influence on that. techies wear techie cloths for particual reasons. We need to crawl under desks from time to time etc... and you don't know when / where that might occur. Example: In the past I have been in situations where women have refused or not been able to do part of their job roles because of the cloths they are wearing. eg wearing heels and skirt is not suitable for climbing a ladder.... So... they get a guy to do it instead... often using the fact they are a women to do this. So often they loose respect very very quickly when they do this amoung men.

Same deal when out at night. I have been with women who have complained that they shoes hurt and they cannot walk any further. I will put them in a taxi and send them home and never invite them out again. I could not give a rats ass if they are wearing heels or not. I do care if they are going to moan about their feet hurting for 2 hours and ruining everyone elses night and expecting special treatment for choices they made.

Same deal. I would prefere a women that spend £500 on campaing gear and go camping and stuff than £500 on a designer outfit. Those women are simply more fun.... at the same time some women with a designer handbag or something costing £500+ reads as a statment to me as somebody who is spoiled and makes bad spending decisions.

The best thing I would consider about dress. Is dress for what your what doing practically. As the saying goes from my sports there is no such thing as bad weather just incorrect clothing.....

The thing is a lot of women will call that "toxic" whats not understood is men who do basically the same thing as a peer one way or another or don't pull their weight in a team also completly loose respect from their peers for exactly the same reasons.

You know like when a bosses son joins a company. The rest of the people give the guy a hard time. This is because the position is attained not earned. Exactly the same thing happens with women and they call it sexism. Which is actually a re-enforcement of the attainment often making the problem worse not better.

Thats actually whats happening in a lot of modern films. The women are hijacking/attaining the prior decades old scripts some of which were done by men and they are immediatly attaining the position with no effort / struggle that the original male charaters had to go though.

In fact they are not just stealing the charater narrative. They put the previous charater narrative down in the process with cringy lines.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for that.

Lots to process for me.

I ended up watching the YouTube 'girl' you posted the link for.

She had some mmmm interesting stuff to say... which I was totally oblivious to... and your last sentence reflects what she said...

I've worked with women who ??? use sex in the way they dress. I don't care. but when the female boss told a colleague his shorts, casual Friday , were to short... that lost me... because some of the female colleagues had extra short skirts and breasts half hanging out....

[–]mistralol 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Yeah men actually get hit by these double standards all the time. In fact an interesting UK one was during a heat wave where the men still had to comply to a dress code.

Guy asked his manager if he could wear shorts. Refused. Did it anyway the next day. Got sent out until he changed. Came back in a dress. Manager tried to send him home again. His response was. I think you might wanna check with HR first. Manager came back. "Shorts will be fine as well"

Ref: https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/3839146/man-wore-dress-to-work/

> She had some mmmm interesting stuff to say... which I was totally oblivious to... and your last sentence reflects what she said...

Yeah unfortunatly I probably just ruined films for you. Sorry about that :)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Hahaha... I don't think you are gonna be sorry for long :) :)

Ruined films - no... all good... I'm not into a action movies in a big way. I have seen Bourne but the first was the best and an I opener to me as to how ridiculous Hollywood can be.. but I enjoyed it at the same time. For me it 'kind of' showed how movies are just being made with the girls in them and her point about Batman was rather good I thought. I want to say: I mean to say... Batman developed the 'suit' and all 'she' can say is 'it will be better when a girl is in it'... which is kind of like my Blokey, straight, drinking male friend saying 'it will be better when the men start sewing'. It is just crappy that is all and immature. I get it and done it, but in context of this Sub it is horror when the movies start just doing to make movies and sell and money is my point...

​

And the guy with the shorts problem was working in a call centre? WTF!!!!

were now permitted to wear 3/4 length shorts. ????

I've noticed this now and then with men clothing. Women wear things that men don't and I mean 'low cut shirts'... Men wear ties!!!

I have to watch this now I feel, as a gay man 😬 Why can't men wear shorts to work? No Tie, shirt open?? yet women can wear almost nothing and are allowed. I don't think females realise how stereotyped they are when wearing such clothing... On the main German news station the women show some neck skin but not plunging necks lines. I like it... but the men still wear ties... boring ties. fucking boring ties... omg.... I'd love it if Putin turned up one day dressed in a suit the same colour as Frau Merkel used to wear... RED....

​

I must stop, I have things to read.. but seen I read more of your newspaper article and this:

Earlier today we told how pupils were sent home by teachers after "refusing to wear their blazers" in the 30C heatwave. I was in London in 1995 and it was 35celcius and it was friggin hot and humid... what is wrong with these people... honestly... I think things must be going to change big time... usually things go crazy, even if I'm the only one saying this, before something changes or comes to an end. The old hanging on by its teeth...

[–]DekajaSukunda 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I think being in this sub is turning me into a woman hater! OR, am I just waking up! OR maybe I'm getting tired of seeing the same old shit on the 'screen'? OR, just waking up to a lot of stuff that is presented 'as normal' - when it is far from normal (in my world anyway).

Careful with this.

This sub is a place to vent and an anti-feminist echo chamber. That's not wrong. Every god damn sub in the internet is an echo chamber, and hell, this one isn't as ban-happy as a lot of them are, so we could even argue this isn't even the worst echo chamber out there.

But it's good to compliment what you read here with other outlets. Don't let it consume you. Hating women and absorbing all that misogyny will just ruin your life, consume your soul, and deprive you of happiness. You can't live a normal and productive life hating half of the world for existing.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Thanks. I'm not getting into the hate... but subs like this do alert, all of us, to what is happening in the world...

[–]DekajaSukunda 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It does and it's important. But I feel like there's a really defeatist and often hateful element to this sub that's to be treated with care.

This defeatist attitude and hatred is probably just a normal and natural consequence of the subjects it deals with. But it's important to keep that in mind.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Got you and now that I read your words I've seen the 'defeatist' attitude too and even have some of that myself. But it is an important point to 'try' and remember.

maybe that is why some things I don't like. But I joined this sub and learned some things but wonder 'what is next'... I can keep learning new things for sure but at the end of the day... I need to change and society needs to change... I think awareness is a good thing for a start... to say something easy... but slowly is what comes to mind... I'm more of an activist than I was thirty years ago and I like it.

[–]DekajaSukunda 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This sub surely can be eye-opening when you first step in here. But it's important to not get suck up by the negativity vortex. Be aware, don't be hateful.

[–]TipiTapi 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I think being in this sub is turning me into a woman hater! OR, am I just waking up! OR maybe I'm getting tired of seeing the same old shit on the 'screen'? OR, just waking up to a lot of stuff that is presented 'as normal' - when it is far from normal (in my world anyway).

Bro dont listen to all the people in this sub, lots of the posters are /r/incels or /r/mgtow refugees. Its important not to dismiss issues but keep in mind - a lot of the crying on this sub is just that, disappointed/sad/angry people crying on the internet.

A random female hollywood celebrity being dumb shouldnt make you 'women hater' the same way a random male douchebag shouldnt make you hate all men.

What you read on reddit is not indicative of real life. Especially if its an echo-chamber like this sub.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for your comment.

I'm not really a woman hater. Just more aware of what happens in many places known as 'media'.

[–]reddut_gang 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Have you considered another avenue? It seems to me most of incels or mgtow people have had bad or traumatising experiences with women, but there are a lot of people who are pissed and growing extremely frustrated by the prevalence of systematic misandry and the constant downplaying of it.

[–]Complete_Anything681 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I am 34 years old and I prefer old school tough guys. Lee Marvin, Robert Mitchum, Chuck Bronson, Clint Eastwood, Toshiro Mifune, men who have their shit together. I look up to these men. I wish I could be like them.

[+][deleted] 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]mistralol 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

On average actually men and women are identical actually. Its the distibution that is different you trend to get more men at each end eg more smart and more dumb.

Thats why you end up with the cherry picked set. Its also why men have more people in prison, homeless and a bunch of stuff. Kinda hard to "equalize" that.

[–]Complete_Anything681 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They don't want an even playing field, they want points on the board.

[–]sgt_oddball_17 52 points53 points54 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Until women fight back on behalf of their husbands and sons, no progress will be made.

Men can't respond properly to Feminists, because "be nice to the girl" is a double-standard Feminists successfully hide behind . . . and the Wives and Moms keep silent, only getting involve when their son is the latest victim of a false accusation.

[–]matrixislife 12 points13 points14 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

ALWAYS differentiate between feminists and women when making arguments about men's rights.
It stops feminists from using the motte and bailey "you must hate women", and it encourages those women who actually support men's rights that they aren't being lumped together like "kill all men". And there's plenty of them, feminists are a minority among women, but a very noisy one. As you say, it would be nice for the majority to be louder, so let's give them some support there.

[–]KillhappyJenn -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

A woman doesn’t need to have a husband or a son to care about issues that effect men. Do you think having wives and daughters is the only way men can care about womens’ issues?

[–]sgt_oddball_17 17 points18 points19 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No, I'm just pointing out that most women don't care until a man in their life gets steamrolled.

[–]s00perlame 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Unfortunately it usually is the only way men care about women's rights is when it effects their loved ones.

[–]reddut_gang 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

you'd rather the inverse? I mean, like half the suffragettes were men. I'm sure if you rounded up male feminists and female MRAs, you'd see a lot more guys than gals. Not to discredit the female MRAs. They exist and tend to do a great job. But it's silly to act like there are more of them than male feminists.

[–]orcwordlaugh 15 points16 points17 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Netflix's new release Red Notice, besides being mediocre in general, makes a point of telling the audience how everything wrong with the two male leads is because they had bad fathers.

You could turn that into a point about children needing present and caring fathers, but it didn't come off that way.

[–]dungeonmonkey69 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

No pun intended but that show was a massive red flag to me hahaha

Edit: sorry thought it was a show. Turns out it's a movie

[–]p3ngwin 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

show?

Pretty sure they're talking about the film with the Rock and Ryan Reynolds ?

[–]dungeonmonkey69 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh it's a movie? Sorry I thought it was a show, my bad. Didn't bother watching it coz of rotten stuff id heard

[–]hifi3xx 11 points12 points13 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

What pisses me off about this article is it still spins it in a way to make it a female issue

[–]p3ngwin 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

yeah i noticed that every other paragraph was about women still not having rights, so much work still to do, etc o.O

It was almost like a concern troll article.

[–]Angryasfk 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

She’s a feminist. It’s what they do. But it shows how bad feminism has become and how pervasive it is that she has such an issue with it!

[–]DaLordOfDarkness 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I always think that fictions always love to have abusive father and husband while barely any mother and wife characters that are like that, I never understand why.

Also, this is something that all types of fictions and medias love to have, not just stupid woke TV shows.

[–]Slap-A-Chav 11 points12 points13 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Have you seen the new Charlie's Angels? Every man was written as a bad guy, bar one and every woman was portrayed as a heroine.

Do you know why? Because Elizabeth Banks is a feminist.

[–]TheSilverShade 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Coming from the daily mail too. That's a surprise

[–]Kaylarmagic 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I've noticed it and getting tired of that narrative.

[–]nyarlathotep999 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Simple solution: boycott TV. Read a book.

[–]Welder1919 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is why I stick to older movies and TV shows.

Some personal favorites of mine are Castle, NCIS, any John Wayne movie, Gran Torino

[–]graffitol 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I watched the newly released film ‘hustlers’ on Netflix last night. Based on a true story it is about a group of women who drug and steal from male strip club clients. There are constant justifications for their actions and the male victims are represented as sleazy and despicable, they are objects of ridicule. Either evil or weak while the female criminals are presented as heroic and virtuous.

[–]slipkid223 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Culture is Blue Pill, Women will always be victims and will never be held accountable for anything.

This will never change. Time to live outside the Matrix gents.

[–]StudentOfTheTruth0 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

She criticizes misandry but says it is important to "call out" "toxic masculinity".

Yeah, right. Last thing men need is "defenders" like this. What a joke.

[–]shortman162cm 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

because the media film industries have all been infiltrated by crazy feminists

[–]ithinkoutloudtoo 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They are trying to condition people into believing a certain way about men and women.

[–]Ownedby4Labs 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is why I cancelled TV 5 years ago and never looked back. It’s an absolute toxin filled cesspool. Best thing you can do is STOP WATCHING. The production companies live and die by the ratings. Doesn’t matter how woke they are, if they all of a sudden start losing revenue in a big way, it’ll change. Fast.

[–]auMatech 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's become less about compelling storytelling and more about reinforcing a certain political agenda.

Just look at how many people believe that the handmaid's tale is actually based on facts, or refuse to acknowledge that it's fiction...

[–]iamasadsadcrayon 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Would you like to see more horror movies where a woman is the serial killer, or movies where a woman is a psychopath who prey on men who mind their business?

[–]thegoodearthquake 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Left has destroyed everything and they are relentless. In the west its always against white men and conservative christians. In india its against men & hindus. All the movies and shows are like this. Even in movies and other media which are based on real stories, religion of characters is changed to continue the oppression narrative.

For those of us who notice its exhausting to keep on hearing about this.

To add on top of this every girl on dating apps is having some message about "care about this/care about that, men are a pigs"

They even ruined the oscars for me which i loved so much

[–]Vanriel 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I find it laughable that she says about the fear of women.

At the moment I would say men have more reason to fear women than at any other point in history, to my knowledge.

You have false rape accusations, the ability to have your career ripped apart by a single complaint (whether legitimate or not), divorce where you get taken to the cleaners and end up with nothing, paternity fraud, family court prejudice, inability to see your kids.

All of this boils down to a woman/women holding the power over the man.

Ticks me right off.

[–]mistralol 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Kinda year. This kinda stuff works but in reality ever single man that gets screwed over is a father, brother, uncle, son of a women

A lot of these women suddenly wake up and push back hard.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Maybe because a larger portion of females sit around and watch television all the time?

Just a guess.

[–]OkAccountant2598 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Hopefully it's a fad. I can't think of any Tv program that shows white men in a positive light. Problem is that the bandwagon effect happens, and people can blame any of their mistakes or inadequacies somehow on the white man. Look I was born in 73', I have never owned a slave, held a position with exorbitant power. I paid for college. I can't stand racial slurs. I don't understand why people take issue with Jews. I love Mexico. Lived there for a year. Yet for the 3rd time, in my life, I was walking down the street, and a stranger passed, and shouted, " I fucking hate you white people". In my face. 3rd time. I'll be honest. It brakes my heart. Not because I'm hurt by the comment; but just by how sad the whole picture is for everyone. We all know racism comes from ignorance. People don't care or take the time to read about cultures. Or travel anywhere. Twain said, " Travel is the enemy of bigotry and close-mindedness". (Paraphrase). If you want to see some hope for change, check out song reactions on YouTube. It's a small thing, but baby steps, you know. These are people who have only heard hip-hop, rap, maybe country. They listen to The Beatles and Hendrix and Led Zeppelin for the first time. Their minds are blown. They love it. A common reaction----they start crying. Crying to Pink Floyd. Crying to Steely Dan.? There is some much meaning in that. I don't know where to begin. What they are really doing-- They're saying, "I'm going to try and have a better understanding of another culture at the risk of not liking what I find" That's beautiful. Have you ever stopped, tried something totally different, AND made a YouTube show about it? Hope. Alot of people are willing to change.

[–]yoitsericc 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's hard to feign credibility on this issue when the writer starts to article out admitting she has tons of feminist literature on her shelves.

This stuff was built on man hating. You can go back and see interviews from the 70s with women talking about how they are oppressed by men. I reject this narrative, but it persists to this day and feminists have only themselves to blame.

[–]neveragoodtime 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes, but women are most affected.

[–]Simonwedsolatunji -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What ? Can’t understand boi

[–]YouLookGoodInASmile 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I like once upon a time, a lot of the villains man or women were redeemed or well.. killed
Rumple, both redeemed and dead
Evil queen, redeemed
Evil queen 2.0, redeemed
Evil henry (kid), redeemed
Wicked witch, redeemed
rumple 2.0, dead
Facilier, dead
Gothel, dead
Rapunzel, (kinda redeemed? Not really) and dead
drizella, redeemed
the first evil humans (both girls and boys, mostly girls) that hurt gothel, dead
Peter pan, dead
Nook (new hook), redeemed
Original hook, redeemed
Cora, dead (twice)
Hades, dead
Davids father, redeemed
peter pan minions, dead
gideon, died and redeemed (also got revived)
Black fairy, dead
Cruella, dead
Maleficent, died multiple times, redeemed
Ursula, redeemed
Davids "father", imprisoned (cant remember if hes dead)
Liam, dead then redeemed
Liam 2, redeemed

i cant remember anyone else

[–]YouLookGoodInASmile 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Anne with an e is also a good one! Both boys and girls make fun of her but almost all of them are redeemed.

[–]boringcarpets 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I've literally had the same conversation - all TV on at the moment (main terrestrial) has some female victim/evil man storyline. It's so present and current more than ever. Every British drama right now has this trope

[–]dr3adlock 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's also been a rising theme in kids films. All the main male characters are dumb as shit and super emotional and the females are all super smart and logical.

Seems like they are trying really hard to reverse the gender rolls played in kids films over the past decade when they should be levelling the playing field.

[–]zenith_the_menith 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Richard Pryor said it best....

If all of us are fighting each other we won't pay attention to the rich minority.

Who are the ones making this propaganda.

[–]RingosTurdFace 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You know things are bad when a 1960’s 2nd wave feminist who owns a copy of the SCUM manifesto is having to jump to the defence of men and who also faces a barrage of abuse online for doing so.

As an aside - I’ve cancelled my TV license (I’m in the UK) and my Netflix subscription. Don’t give these misandric cunts your money or ruin your mood by watching this mainstream hate.

[–]Complete_Anything681 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you. I once said this around here before. Outside of Superhero films, men in films, especially heterosexual white males, are constantly being depicted as psychologically broken or simply evil.

[–]Busy-Ad5287 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They are either a monster or they are like a child. They are doing this to push the subject as if all men are stupid or evil. This is the reason why women are hating men more and more everyday.

[+]Bootylove4185 -10 points-9 points-8 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Shut up you Brats and stop victimizing yourselves!

If you don’t want to consume shitty media, then don’t! Simple as that.

Leave the emotional projection at the movie theatre for fucks sake

[–]panda12694 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

To be fair, in the show You, Love was the monster

[–]bryoneill11 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The problem are the people still watching. Humans seems to lack self respect. I never would have thought that we as humans had zero integrity. We talk a lot very tough but never do anything and in fact, do the opposite that we said when the time comes. It's amazing and scary to witness how people can't stop watching movies and sports from the very same people who insults, mock and hates then with passion.

[–]geriatricsoul 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Stop watching this shit then. Look, people will make what they think sells. Just don't buy into it and put your energy into people who see through the bullshit too

[–]OwlMantheHeckler 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I understand completely

[–]no_user_ID_found 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Are there still men watching tv out there? 🤔

[–]LongLiveDetroit 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't really watch any new shows its almost all propaganda and the humor has gotten soft

[–]Legitimate-Ad-6267 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

A based SCUM feminist!? They were right. You do learn something new everyday.

[–]Mens-Advocate 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Authors Nathanson & Young analysed cultural misandry very thoroughly in their book, Spreading Misandry.

It is one of four books they have published about misandry:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=nathanson+young+misandry

[–]Ren_Yi 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

TV and films today either shows a man as abusive, or as a fool in the shadow of his more successful and higher intelligent wife. Neither modern TV nor modern films have any positive male role models.

[–]jadedlonewolf89 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Honestly I’m for foreign films, Japan, Russia, France, and England all seem to cover topics and problems American media absolutely won’t touch on and if Hollywood writes a script based off of a foreign film they ruin it by removing the serious subjects and replacing them with sex and explosions.

I still notice man hating and feminist bs propaganda but it’s not the sole focus in the stuff I enjoy.

[+]No-Feedback7437 -11 points-10 points-9 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You should watch some other kind tv shows I don't watch
Hardly ever do I watch TV Fox News and QAN news are great sources for media

[–]MutantKeyboard -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I wouldn't mind, but there is never a show where the male is the victim. The only one I can remember was Hollyoaks about 20 years ago!

[–]Sun-Kizzed -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Spoiler alert for a movie: I actually got second hand embarrassment and offended for many men who are accused of being dangerous while watching Last Night in Soho. It started off portraying women and only women looking vulnerable and innocent, but at the end, it was the woman at fault, but no one actually knew it. It took a very different turn than I ever thought it would. I was very surprised and I suggest you check it out. As much as men are portrayed as these dangerous and terrible creatures in films, I was taken aback by the ending for the first time in a long time.

[–]DekajaSukunda 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Well I wasn't planning on watching this but maybe you could put a spoiler warning on this? xD It looks like you just spoiled a huge part of the show.

[–]Sun-Kizzed 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I feel like if I didn’t, no one in a MR community would watch a woman get “raped” and make all men look literally like predators. That’s how the movie was advertised. I’ll put a spoiler though, I apologize!

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