About Patriarchy and Oppression

Forgetaboutthelonely · 2022-05-15T04:20:42+00:00

What you're seeing is basically a weasel word used and twisted in such a way that men are always oppressors and women are always oppressed.

The end result of the thought terminating cliche is that it's men's fault and it's women who suffer the most. Even where men suffer and women benefit it's supposedly our own fault and so we need to fix ourselves and stop being so terrible.

That's the problem with "patriarchy" the second you look at it with even an ounce of critical thinking it falls apart.

Interesting_Doubt_17 · 2022-05-15T10:04:42+00:00

I start to notice that "patriarchy hurts men too" is mostly just a code word for "it's men's fault"

Unexpected-bug · 2022-05-15T04:35:16+00:00

Patriarchy is an ideological fantasy (in the Zizekian way). Any conceptualization built around the strawman of an ideological fantasy is pure self-fulfillment expressed by the believers of that specific ideology.

BloomingBrains · 2022-05-15T07:31:41+00:00

They don't say its oppression because they realize how stupid it would sound to say we're oppressing ourselves. Also, feminists want to claim their oppression points, so why put men on the same level and allow them to do the same?

So the thrust of it is "Lol men so stupid and hate us so much that in fucking us over, they also fuck themselves over hard".

By attributing blame in this way, any male problem can be dismissed as a symptom of something that also oppresses women, so why are you focusing on the men and not the women, sexist? And since we're doing it to ourselves, all we have to do to fix it is just stop having those standards. Feminism doesn't need to do anything to help, case closed.

Never mind that in many examples, like men not feeling comfortable expressing emotions because they fear women will find them unattractive for it, traditional gender roles are actually enforced by women as well.

Traditional gender roles for thee but not for me.

sorebum405 · 2022-05-15T04:33:30+00:00

The reason why what their saying makes no sense is because we(the west) live in a gynocentric society not a patriarchy.Most, if not all of the claims made by feminist about discrimination against women have been debunked.The truth is that society prioritizes women's safety and wellbeing because people are psychologically hardwire to want to protect women over men,and feminist exploited this cognitive bias to benefit women at men's expense .Feminist have created the Duluth model, have tried to silence men's rights activism on multiple occasion, have opposed shared parenting bills multiple times, opposed gender neutral rape laws, etc.When feminist claim that the patriarchy is responsible for all of men's issue they are trying to shift blame on you and other men, instead of acknowledging the damage feminism has done to society.They need a scapegoat to blame for men's issues, and patriarchy is their scapegoat.

MazerTag · 2022-05-15T06:33:19+00:00

Don't try to make an emotional position conform to the rules of logic. It's like the old saying by Swift, "you can't reason someone out of a position they did not reason themselves into."

wholelottaboocrap · 2022-05-15T12:15:10+00:00

Blaming the Patriarchy as a complete catch-all and trotting out "internalized misogyny" when it suits is basically the same argument as the fundamentalist "the Devil put dinosaurs here."

I can address and give credibility to men's roles in oppression and system issues, but when it comes time for women to pick up the check on a shitty thing in life, these inherently unfalsifiable ideas all-too-conveniently appear to save the day.

craite · 2022-05-15T11:08:26+00:00

This way they can adress the issues of men in a way that doesn't steal the spotlight from women when it comes to who is the victim of sexism and oppression. Whenever the common criticism of mras comes up that men are disadvantaged in numerous areas and feminism does nothing for equality in this regard, they can just deflect it with the argument "patriarchy" hurts men too. But the result of this is that womens issues will always get more attention and be treated more seriously and differently since they are allegedly the primary victims of the patriarchal system. Men's issues and women's issues will never be seen as equally important in this narrative.

AaronStack91 · 2022-05-15T19:43:54+00:00

I asked this exact question and got the same response a couple years ago in that same subreddit.

The most telling thing to me is that they openly claim feminist helps mens, but at the same time systematically exclude them from support by labeling them "oppressors".

If you press the further they will also admit any benefits to men are an after thought and their focus will always be women first.

Their big open tent shrinks the more and more they talk.

RhinoNomad · 2022-05-16T02:06:41+00:00

This is the fundamental twisting of words/concepts that made me question some of my own feminist beliefs.

It's confusing because it doesn't make sense. Patriarchy, however you see it, oppresses both men and women in vastly different ways and in vastly different contexts.

MelissaMiranti · 2022-05-15T05:43:09+00:00

If I'm a racist and I let someone off the hook for not being white, by that logic I'm racist?

That does happen, in a way, with racists saying things like "it's in their nature" or "they can't help it." Still racist as fuck.

ChimpPimp20 · 2022-05-15T04:04:48+00:00

Just wanted to see if anyone else has ever thought about this topic specifically in this way. Any thoughts?

Cunari · 2022-05-15T17:00:06+00:00

A lot of feminists are anti billionaires and believe that they are evil sociopaths. This of course disproves patriarchy theory(or at least the one model that states that because men are the ones in power it privileges men) as why would a sociopath help other people.

However, feminism is all about ideological warfare and holding the ideological line. A feminist can never refine their position as it would be considered a defeat in ideological warfare.

zonadedesconforto · 2022-05-15T16:46:16+00:00

Patriarchy demands men to be oppressors, to hold power (be either the way physical, economical, emotional) over women, children and “inferior” men. A man who fails (or refuses) to play this game is called a “beta”, “loser”, someone unworthy of praise by society, unworthy of relationships and affection by other people. Patriarchy demands men to be material providers, to be “chads” and “alphas”. This is why redpill guys get it SO wrong by idolising these traditional gender roles that made them miserable in first place.

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