Beta male triying to not believe in the Red Pill

HelenHavok · 2022-06-20T11:33:43+00:00

Red pill gave me and explanation of
why this happens (women want masculinity, muscles, power, things i never
liked or wanted) and that sounds logical, but im not 100% convinced of
that (also, i dont like that point, for obvious reasons).

What is something i can think instead of that?

I'm going to try to answer this for you, but keep some things in mind. First, I don't know you and you haven't given us a whole lot of information about your interactions with women. So, my reasons would probably change if I actually knew you and how you were going about trying to find a partner.

I always have been a too nice person, sometimes shy. Morals are very
important to me and i love videogames, filosophy, science, im actually
studiyng to be a web developer.

There is no such thing as being too nice a person. Saying you're "too nice" implies that you're being nice in a non-genuine way. It implies you don't want to be as nice as you act, which would mean you're in some way doing it out of duty instead of what you truly feel. Try to focus on being the genuine you, not on how you're "supposed" to be.

It's cool that your into philosophy and science. To give you a little of my personal background, I have a master's degree in philosophy from a large tech school. I studied ethics, political philosophy, and philosophy of science (focusing on evolutionary biology).

Im a religious person who decided to not get a girlfriend for religious purposes until 18 (now i am 23).

I never had a girlfriend or kissed someone, and honestly, i just want a woman who
loves me (i dont want to get laid with a lot of women).

Twenty three is still very young, though it may not feel like it. It's okay to be inexperienced in romance. It's not your lack of muscles or wealth or masculinity that are holding you back: there are tons of weak, poor, feminine guys who have dating success and find partners. Their mere existence proves this false.

What you need though is experience and practice and the soft social skills that help getting to know someone. You also need to look into the right places for the right person. You don't need to get laid to learn to "flirt." And by flirt, I don't mean "hit on." I mean you need to learn to talk to and get to know women that your interested in. Not trying to date girls when you were younger meant that you didn't learn any of those skills when you were younger. You just need to do that now.

From one of your comments "religious" is Christian. I can't speak to that much because I was born and raised an atheist. But, I do know that what you are probably looking for is someone who has a similar background. You don't want to go to bars and clubs or anything like that. What comes to mind is a reality TV show about a Christian family where the eldest son didn't date until he was 18. He and his eventual wife mostly communicated through letters and phone calls to start. Have you tried meeting women through church? Maybe travel to some religious talks or philosophical conferences with religious speakers to meet and be exposed to more people?

In my experience 99 times out of 100 what would help guys the most is working on their communication skills. I used to frame this as "personality," but a lot of guys take that as a personal attack. Developing your communication skills really is developing your personality though. Being able to communicate better helps you to show your best sides to potential partners, it helps to understand what they are looking for a partner, it helps you to reject them if need be, and it helps you to handle rejection. Focus on listening, learning, and stretching your life experiences.

Ultimately finding a partner is about two people finding someone they want to be with. Trying to be a macho hunk that makes a lot of money isn't going to help if you're not any of those things. What you can do is learn to search better, and learn to show yourself off better. It's not a guarantee, because ultimately you and another person both have to choose each other. You seem like you have a lot to offer a potential partner: you're ambitious, certain of your values, and intellectually curious. There are women out there who are religious in similar ways, who would be interested in a guy like you. You just have to put yourself in a good position to find them and hope for the best.

juliuspepperwoodchi · 2022-06-20T13:55:54+00:00

You're not a "beta male". Those literally do not exist.

Naus1987 · 2022-06-20T04:04:11+00:00

Deprogram yourself from seeing others and yourself as alpha, beta, sigma, orbiter. That's what's holding incel together in your brain is terminology.

There is in reality no such thing as a beta male. It's a construct from an ideology. You are you.

And women are not especially into muscle bound, anti intellectual abusers. We really want a person who is brave, fun and creative.

David Bowie had no muscles, was feminine with mismatched eyes from being punched in the face. Incel would have told him he was ugly. He was just interesting and he didn't plan his life around what other people thought of him.

Prince was 5' and he dgaf and just had big dick energy with everything.

WhoDoomsTheDoomer · 2022-06-20T03:50:32+00:00

Be confident in the things you like, and find ways of helping others through your passions. Developers save companies millions of dollars and they're very valuable, so find pride in that. Women would automatically be attracted to your confidence since you found it in the things you already love.

2022-06-20T07:27:51+00:00

You are your own enemy. You want a woman to love you but you don't want to do anything that would make you appeal to a woman.

Inareskai · 2022-06-20T09:32:23+00:00

Anything that offers such a neat and simple explanation that covers the apparent thoughts, wants, and behaviours of over 3.9 billion people is wrong. There's really no way round that.

There will always be people within that massive group for whom that explanation doesn't work. Even if only 1% of people didn't match that explanation (it will be more than that, but let's pretend it's only 1%) - that's still 39 million women for whom the red pill explanations are just wrong.

Now if I presented any other theory where I said 'This is how the world works (well, except for these 39 million people for whom it doesn't)', would you think my idea of how the world works was worth listening to?

flashyellowboxer · 2022-06-20T15:04:45+00:00

Just like how you view life in the lens of religion, you are viewing relationships with the lens of red pill ideology.

Newsflash: it’s possible to live a better life without both.

vcreativ · 2022-06-20T18:05:14+00:00

women want masculinity, muscles, power, things i never liked or wanted

Honestly, that's your answer then. Why care about something that you don't care about.

Your perspective on life matters. Because no matter what it is, you'll attract people, men and women, that are compatible with it. Meaning if you view women as above, then that's all you'll see.

RP is an internal conflict. It's very much an inner quest for self-love projected on women.

i just want a woman who loves me

This doesn't make sense unless you have someone specific in mind. Because relationships are very specific. I have no doubt that you are looking for love, but in the wrong place.

No woman will be able to provide what you're looking for. It has to be you.

Asterose · 2022-06-20T20:07:28+00:00

If it helps any, the stereotypical alpha and beta males thing is a major misunderstanding of actual reality. An alpha male primate is usually kind, generous, and not unnecessarily violent. Most people and animals alike don't enjoy being around bullies and assholes who try to hurt them, and will try to minimize time close to those ones in favor of nicer, better buddies.

We got it even more wrong with canines: the alpha male and female are just the parents of the beta, omega, etc. wolves. These "lower ranking" wolves are actually just younger and learning from their experienced parents. Our dogs (and cats!) are happiest when they can love and trust us as reliable caregivers. To be firm-have healthy boundaries and rules like don't jump up on people or pee inside-but caring.

The myth of the alpha man needs to die. Woman here, we are drilled from a very young age to be wary of putting ourselves in danger (ex. I won't walk around alone in the dark), or men hurting us. We don't want to be with somebody who we can't trust or who only hurts us or throws us aside. No matter how hot and rich a guy is, an """alpha"""asshole personality will most likely not land him a happy and mutual relationship.

It's also more normal than people think to not get into dating, let alone anything more than light kissing, until adulthood. Our society puts waaay too much emphasis and pressure on glorifying romance and framing it as absolutely necessary for happiness. Media also tends to love sexy titillation. So people get the feeling everybody's having way more sex than reality. It's been fantastic to see some movies and tv shows not emphasize, and soetimes not even have, a love interest and story arc.

Also don't be afraid to be just friends with some women! Female friends help you learn how to relax and just socialize with women, and can give you advice/insight. I've met guys for date where we quickly found out we had zero romantic chemistry or interest. Cool, I made a new friend to just hang out with.

Just some thoughts, other commenters have good advice about practicing your social skills and meeting people through church activities or volunteer work.

xvszero · 2022-06-20T05:27:24+00:00

How many women have you asked out?

dottywine · 2022-06-21T02:46:05+00:00

You can think that women are human beings. Human beings are all different but every human being appreciates being with someone they jive with. So just meet people you jive with.

greenwaffulz · 2022-06-20T18:40:21+00:00

I think what the Red pill fails to understand is that context is also important. If you're working for a tech company and your interests are more introverted such as gaming or reading, you'll attract women that VALUES that, not your average club girl the red pill people think is the ideal woman lol.

Yes some parts of the red pill are true such as women preferring leadership in men or confidence. But it's not as extreme as the red pill makes it out to be.

wasted_basshead · 2022-06-21T00:16:09+00:00

Don’t let unethical practices on the internet mess with your head.

Slight_Fig5187 · 2022-06-20T08:09:39+00:00

Most of the things the RP states are false and its object is to trap men even more in the prison of toxic masculinity, probably because it sells books, YouTube channels, workshops, lecturea etc.

Even if your religion asks you to remain a virgin till marriage (a very wrong idea in my opinion, but anyhow) I guess you're not forbidden to try and find a girl with your same ideas to date and start learning what women are all about, which is probably very different to whatever the crazy RP ideology says.

But you also write in your post "you don't like other girls" I'm not entirely sure of what you mean, but maybe your religious ideas are preventing from understanding the true nature of your emotional and sexual being.

PsychologicalSide218 · 2022-06-20T16:02:57+00:00

I absolutely love this comment!! There is a woman out there for you that has the same preferences as you. They are a rare breed, but you have to let God help to cover you from those who are not for you and for him to help guide you to your forever mate. Too many people make sex the goal of marriage, but it isn’t. As a woman I know there are a lot of women out there who want to know that a man does not just want her for sex. Reading this gives me hope!!

Naus1987 · 2022-06-20T13:26:39+00:00

Maybe you’re asexual if you’re not interested in sex.

Why you want someone to like you is a good question for those philosophy studies of yours.

The-Guy-In-Grey · 2022-06-20T04:54:02+00:00

No lie you sound just me, hit me up I would like to talk to you a little. I'm trying to start a podcast with some others from this community. Would love to tell you more about it see if its something you would like to join.

Interstellar_Unicorn · 2022-06-20T14:59:06+00:00

It's simple imho

The RP is right. Most modern women do want those things.

Since you're religious, you open your dating pool to women that aren't shallow. Find a girl who is religious. Stay true to yourself and you'll find a truly quality girl.

You should educate yourself on some RP concepts because even those girls will want some masculine qualities. They want to feel that you're confident and to feel safe with you.

I used to read a lot of RP and ended up ditching most of it. it wasn't good for me, but it still has a lot of truths. I recently got engaged to the girl of my dreams who doesn't require for me to be all that RP tells you to be. But it still helped me A LOT. She told me herself she appreciates the qualities in me that i learned from RP.

Very high chance I wouldn't be engaged if not for RP.

If you want to be successful in the modern dating market, RP will show you the way. But why bother. Those women aren't worth the effort.

Try to maximize your exposure to religious girls. I'm not saying you can't be quality if you aren't religious. I'm just speaking from my experience.

I could try pin pointing the actually helpful RP concepts that would help with quality girls

sharedordaz · 2022-06-20T15:19:17+00:00

Psychologists have confirmed that most women have some level of preference for masculinity, status, resources, and muscles in a mate, but there are many other preferences as well like other like personality, compatibility, other features of physical attractiveness, commitment, personality, social skills, etc.

I think darker emotions have a purpose sometimes and that a healthy person needs both. Like sometimes its okay to get angry when you are attacked and fight back. In psychology these dark emotions are called the shadow, and it has been found that people who learn to accept it as a part of themselves but also manage it do better than people who try to suppress it.

throwawaythesleigh · 2022-06-22T15:24:26+00:00

just ask yourself how women and men were for the last 10k years. women want men that earn more and look stronger. dont let these women lie to you theyre trying to make you feel better and hide womens true intentions but they wont help you. you dont ask a fish how to fish u ask the fishermen.

Slight_Fig5187 · 2022-06-20T07:17:41+00:00

[permanently deleted]

TomBerwick1984 · 2022-06-20T22:57:17+00:00

Hi,

The following is written based on life experience of being a pushover, not expressing my needs, and being interested in Red Pill ideas...

IME being 'too nice' probably means you can be a pushover, and don't express your needs or honest thoughts to others, and nor will you protest when someone disrespects or abuses you? If that is the case, then that's something to work on, otherwise you'll likely get into a relationship where you are manipulated or emotionally abused. It's also a bad example for your future kids, you'll be a role model to them and you'll be teaching them to passively accept disrespect and abuse from others.

A lack of assertiveness/honesty can also make intimacy difficult, because if we don't let our partners know what our needs are they can't meet them or when they've violated them, because they aren't mind readers. Even if it may seem 'obvious', people make errors of judgement, and have lapses of awareness, and need to be made aware of 'obvious' things over and over again. (This is why motivational speakers will repeat the same basic things over and over again, this is why religious speakers will repeat the same basic concepts over and over again, because human beings need repetition).

Expressing to our partners what we want, and when we feel disrespected, gives them the opportunity to resolve a conflict and/or create a more fulfilling relationship with us by giving what we want.

I promise you from someone in their late 30s, it's best to get a lack of assertiveness dealt with in your 20s. The sooner that habit goes away the more confident you'll feel, and the better your relationships will be. It's not a good idea for your sense of self-respect to let anyone (family, friends, coworkers, etc) disrespect you without protesting. I also guarantee that you'll be more attractive to the women in your religious community too.

Regarding the Red Pill...

There's a book debunking the Red Pilled (I've only began reading it but it's thorough); Red Pill Ideology: Lifting the Shiny Wrapping from the Manosphere By Cynthia Paine

For a research based approach to finding love, minus the misogyny; How to Not Die Alone: The Surprising Science That Will Help You Find Love by Logan Ury

Which religion are you a member of?

IzuraHeman · 2022-06-21T00:53:26+00:00

"(women want masculinity, muscles, power, things i never liked or wanted)" umm hmm.

okay so I'm a normal woman, low maintenance and not the kind of woman that guys go crazy for, as compared to my other hot girlfriends :p.

Just sharing my opinion but never once in my life (my girlfriends too) look for muscular, over the top strong men. In romantic partner, I do look for emotional connection, shared interest & hobbies, with also ability to communicate well with each other.

Those things you mentioned, sounds superficial and most of us women really couldnt give a f abt muscles. Healthy BMI is enough, a little chubby is okay too, (but thats my preference).

Don't be too hard on yourself over things that are superficial. If you want to gain confidence, just be good at what you like & pursuing, for YOUR OWN satisfaction. not to impress others whatsoever, do shit for you, for your own good.

Yea hope this helps bc i rlly dgaf about no muscles. If anything, men care about that in other men more than women i believe. xx

LiuoTT · 2022-06-21T12:14:51+00:00

I recommend finding a girl who also likes those things. I think muscles are overrated, men are more focused on looks, muscles will make you look better mostly for other men. As a web developer you're going to be pretty stable when it comes to income, so that's nice. Masculine women tend to be attracted to feminine guys (or pan- and bisexual people) and ask k-pop fans what they find attractive, haha. Depends who you want to attract. There are some girls who like purely intelect and deep conversations, but you probably won't find them at clubs. Maybe they visit places you like as well. If you can't think about anything close to you, maybe visiting conventions will help.

That part about being too nice is tricky, because too nice = fake by default. It's suspecious for everybody that somebody is more giving for no reason, so there has to be a reason. For a woman it's "ah, he's nice, because he wants to use me for sex". So they simply avoid being used. Being nice doesn't mean you're good and to impress a woman you need to be good, not nice. Bad boy thing is mostly the case for young women with fucked up childhood and/or father figure. However a healthy woman, or a woman who healed her trauma, will always consider how good (not nice) will you be towards her child. That's why a lot of couples get devorced, even tho everything seemed to be ok. It was because the father didn't have a strong, healthy bond with his child. Therapists say it's the majority.

So respect your boundaries when you're nice and respect yourself. Think how a much weaker woman is probably scared of you and how to make her feel safe around you.

PS You described all I need as a woman in my partner and I'm not a special unicorn, I'm sure there are a lot of people like that. Considering how often women complain that all good men are taken and only assholes (also people living according to the RP) are left ;)

AminalMinimum · 2022-06-21T16:48:39+00:00

A lot of redpill is generally pretty toxic, but one thing I do like about it is that it places the responsibility back on men. If you're a guy that's not getting girls, and you want them to love you for you, you need to work on yourself. Hit the gym and be a better person overall. It sounds from the post that you are even aware of you're own faults, work on those while you are young. The attractive thing only gets your foot in the door, then they'll see the real you and love you for that.

Part_Time_Alice45 · 2022-06-22T00:52:29+00:00

Women who would be into you absolutely exist! You sound a lot like my boyfriend in many respects (intelligent, religious, shy) and I absolutely adore him just as he is. We met in school and have been together for quite a while, so it's been a long time since either of us have been in a position of looking for someone (and thus more difficult for me to give you specific advice in that respect) but I think it would be a great idea to look for women who specifically share your interests (Maybe in your web developer classes, for example, or at church functions).

As a side note, I would also like to mention that red pill ideas can really scare women off. If my boyfriend was exactly the way that he was, but assumed that I wouldn't like him because I wanted masculinity, muscles, power, etc. I would probably be legitimately scared of that bitter energy (not to mention that it kind of sucks to have someone just assume what you like, especially if it's wrong!). I'm not really sure if I explained that well or not, so let me know if you want me to expand on that. Anyway, hope this helps!

2022-06-22T23:00:05+00:00

I think that TRP contains some small elements of truth, but truthfully women tend to be more attracted by personality relative to men, yet are sometimes pickier. A lot of the things in regards to how a man looks is not about him as an object of desire, but how he makes her feel. Women like tall men because they feel dainty, women like muscular men because it makes them feel safe. A lot of these things are not directly tied to looks and can be achieved in other ways too. Looks are simply a proxy for traits.

There was some book called "why women cheat with their therapists and men marry their secretary". Kind of dumb title, but women love feeling supported and listened too and first and foremost safe.

I also think RP way makes things seem extreme, most people will end up in relationships :)

2022-07-20T15:05:30+00:00

ur gay

Title	Beta male triying to not believe in the Red Pill
Author	sharedordaz
Upvotes	27
Comments	95
Date	June 20, 2022 3:27 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/vgbuqa/beta_male_triying_to_not_believe_in_the_red_pill/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/beta-male-triying-to-not-believe-in-the-red-pill.1120772 https://theredarchive.com/post/1120772

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