Can't overcome the resentment

dranic · 2022-09-06T23:32:59+00:00

I've been in counseling, it's been almost 2 years. She left, immediately got 250k in student loans forgiven, a huge raise to where she outearns...

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Three years ago we had a post by a now-deleted user that we deemed so good we added it to our sidebar. Since we lost it when the author deleted their account, this is my attempt to recreate it while editing minor things for clarity, plus adding a section on race that was left as a comment on the original post.

Fact Checking False Rape Accusations and Why We Shouldn't Fear a False Rape Epidemic.

One of the main points of resistance to changes in how police and society handle rape, sexual assault and even sexual harassment is the counter argument that men then would be plagued by false rape accusations. The fear is that we crossed some line that no longer allows reasonable doubt and that a man can be sent to jail by one accusation. We of course have seen stories of such things in the news, and every time we question whether these are isolated stories or a sign of a larger epidemic we don't get to see. When does the drive of combating rape go too far? Is it something to fear?

So how common is this issue? Is it really a threat to men? How many false rape accusations are there?

How Many False Rape Accusations Are There?

Most experts agree that false rape accusations make the total of 2-10% of the total accusations of rape. As quoted from the handbook:

A multi-site study of eight U.S. communities including 2,059 cases of sexual assault found a 7.1% of false reports (Lonsway, Archambault, & Lisak, 2009).

Link to it here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20190325004629/http://www.scirp.org/(S(i43dyn45teexjx455qlt3d2q))/reference/ReferencesPapers.aspx?ReferenceID=1238871

A study of 136 sexual assault cases in Boston from 1998-2007 found a 5.9% of false reports (Lisak et al., 2010).

Using qualitative and quantitative analysis, researchers studied 812 reports of sexual assault from 2000-2003 and found a 2.1% of false reports (Heenan & Murray 2006).

And why not add some more papers to the mix.

2017 Study into the FBI Database found that between 2006 to 2010 the Average number of false rape accusations or baseless accusations was 5.55%, and robbery had a higher false and baseless accusation rate of 5.76%

Another metastudy by Claire E. Ferguson, and John M. Malouff published in December 17th, 2015 put the number of False Rape Accusations at 5%

Now I know that 2-10% is a lot and enough to give anyone pause considering how epidemic sexual assault is, but consider a few things:

1 in 6 of women report they have been sexually assaulted.

Only 1/3 of sexual assaults are reported to police. So it's 2-10% of 33%

This statistic covers whether or not an accusation is false, and as I will show below, whether or not a specific suspect is named is a more interesting stat. The majority of false rape accusations are made against non existent strangers the victims claim they don't know.

So how many false rape allegations lead to false arrests and convictions then?

How Many People Falsely Accused of Rape Actually Go to Jail?

Thankfully we found that the answer is very low.

The National Registry of Exoneration, which keeps track of how many innocent people have been exonerated, found that since 1989 in the US 52 people have been exonerated for sexual assault that they didn't do. People exonerated on false accusations of Murder was 790 people.

The British Home Office did a detailed study and report on the issues of false rape accusations in 2005 and found that, out of the 216 cases of rape that was false in the UK, 126 of them have a formal complaint filed by the accuser, 39 of them had a named suspect and only 6 of them were arrested. Out of the 6 arrested only 2 have charges and 0 of them had a conviction.

Another Study by the University of Pittsburgh found that only 18% of false rape accusations name a suspect

Fact is that the majority of false rape accusations don't even name a suspect. And throwing this into the picture of the total of the numbers of rape really proves how rare false rape convictions are. The vast majority of false rape accusers always accuse a non existent stranger who raped them and usually not someone specifically. Which means that, beyond wasting time and resources, the majority of false rape accusations are harmless to the general public because no specific person is accused.

When you take these studies and add them to what we already know about rape, a more complete picture forms:

1/6 of women claim to have experienced sexual assault, followed by 1/3 reporting the assault to police, then worst case scenario 1/10 are false. Out of those false rape accusations 9/50 name a suspect, out of false rape accusations that accuse someone 15/100 get an arrest and, out of those who are arrested for a rape they didn't do only 1/3 have charges placed against them.

So 1/6 x 1/3 x 1/10 x 9/50 x 15/100 x 1/3 = 0.00005

Which means out of all the women you meet you have a 0.005% chance of being falsely charged of rape.

Compare this to the fact that 6.4% of men openly admitted to committing the strictest possible definition of rape and 63% of that 6.4% admitted of multiple rapes.

[–]Funny_Wolverine_9 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Why Do False Rape Accusations Happen?

Many people who fear false rape accusations claim that women in the work force will make a false accusation against a man in a higher position, or a student who is going to fail an exam will accuse a professor of rape, or a vengeful ex or a woman who regretted sex later.

But the reality of this is very surprising.

According to a review done by the LAPD, the reasons for a false rape accusation are unwanted pregnancies or more commonly "Missed Curfews" by young teenagers. It turns out that 55% of false rape accusations, according to this review, are for hope of getting medical care or psychiatric medication by the very poor and destitute

Also it is noted that half of the false rape accusations are made by parents of children. Either by pressuring the child to go to the police or accusing someone of rape without the child knowing. It is also important to note that the rare serial false rape accusers tend to have a history of being a legitimate victim of sexual abuse as a child.

This shows that the majority of the time, false accusers aren't the serial accusers we hear through the media, nor are in tech jobs, nor college students who regret sex. Instead it is usually either those looking to access healthcare who cannot afford ito otherwise, teenagers trying to get out of trouble and parents of children who make the vast majority of false rape accusations.

Furthermore. there is no correlation between how truthful an accusation is and how recent the event was or the number of sexual partners of the accuser. Add this to the fact that most legitimate victims lie to themselves and others saying that they weren't sexually assaulted when they really were. This denial often is due to the fact that the majority of victims know their abusers personally before the assault and often change their stories or denied that they were as a way to cope the trauma.

Why didn't you include those other "Studies"?

People who fear the false accusation "epidemic" that is supposedly happening like to point to the "other studies" on these issues. What are these other "studies" and why don't I use them in my analysts? Well because they are bad. Flat out bad or rely on a misconception of the nature of sexual assault. And there are a lot of them.

Lets take a sample out of the list provided by Wikipedia.

The Study Raw Number False Reporting Rate as Percentage

Theilade and Thomsen (1986) 1 out of 56, 4 out of 39 1.5% , 10%

New York Rape Squad (1974) n/a 2%

Hursch and Selkin (1974) 10 out of 545 2%

Kelly (2005) 67 out of 2,643 3% False Allegation, 22% Baseless

Geis (1978) n/a 3-31% (police estimate)

Smith (1989) 17 out of 447 3.8%

Clark and Lewis (1977) 12 out of 116 10.3%

US DoJ (1997) n/a 8%

Harris and Grace (1999) 53 out of 483 10.9%

Lea (2003) 42 out of 379 11%

HMCPSI (2002) 164 out of 1,379 11.8%

McCahill (1979) 218 out of 1,198 18.2%

Philadelphia Police Study (1968) 74 out of 370 20%

Chambers and Millar (1983) 44 out of 196 22.4%

Grace (1992) 80 out of 335 24%

Jordan (2004) 68 out of 164 41%

Kanin (1994) 45 out of 109 41%

Gregory and Lees (1996) 49 out of 109 45%

Maclean (1979) 16 out of 34 47%

Stewart (1981) 16 out of 18 90%

When it comes to sample sizes in studies, the more the better. Studies with sample sizes that are in the low 100s are meh, anything under 100 is a meme. Seriously 18 people?!? Andrew Wakefield was able to claim vaccines cause autism with 12.

Also, these studies expose a much larger issue when it comes to research into sexual assault: What is sexual assault and what is false sexual assault. When you look at studies the older ones tend to have questionable views of what is and isn't sexual assault.

For example, Stewart said one of the victims was lying because:

‘‘was disproved on the grounds that it was totally impossible to have removed her extremely tight undergarments from her extremely large body against her will’’

Maclean also came to the conclusion that 47% of victims were lying if the victims didn't look "disheveled" enough or didn't have bruising. As time goes on the number of estimated false rape accusations decrease because we learn and evolve in our understanding of trauma and how people respond. What the police knew about trauma in sexual assault in the 1960s is severely lacking compared to the modern day, therefore they are outdated and shouldn't be included in these discussions.

Then, if you look at other higher studies like Kanin and Jordan you figure out that they are working on the police definitions of false or not. Unfortunately that means that they consider a story false if the victim:

Failed a Polygraph Click here if you wanna know why the Polygraph is bullshit

If the victim delayed reporting their rape

If the victim was "Intellectually Impaired"

If the victim has signs of mental illness

If the victim was intoxicated

If the victim withdrew the complaint

And if the victim was determined by police to be a "slut"

These studies don't show or prove how many false accusations there are really, it just shows in how many cases police viewed sexual assault cases as false and, more importantly, aren't evidence of a massive epidemic of false rape convictions but instead an epidemic of sexist and misguided beliefs that prevent real sexual assault victims from reaching justice. As Jordan said about his own report:

While false complaints do occur, approximately three-quarters of the incidents concluded by the police to be false appeared to have been judged to some extent at least on the basis of stereotypes regarding the complainant’s behavior, attitude, demeanor or possible motive. Suspicious file comments were made by the detectives regarding a woman who laughed while being interviewed, others who were seen as ‘attention seeking,’ and some who were said to be ‘crying rape’ for revenge or guilt motives.

That's right. 75% of "false rape accusations" were not labeled as such by police because they were proven false, but on the gut feelings of the police. Which means we get plenty of false false rape accusations. This is probably a bigger issue then men being falsely accused of rape. There have been plenty of documented cases of police pressuring victims to sign false confessions claiming they made up their sexual assaults. Its why one of the major reasons why out of 1000 rapes only 6 rapists will go to jail while for robberies 20 will go to jail and 33 of assault and battery.

[–]Funny_Wolverine_9 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

False Accusations Are Rampant Enough That Only Segregation Can Solve It

This covers harassment as well. Plenty of people have been using the fear of false rape accusations against men as proof that women should be "isolated". They also openly state to each other that they "won't hire more qualified women because I am too scared of a lawsuit". As stated before the case of someone falsely accusing someone else in the workplace environment is ultra rare, as most false rapes come from children or the homeless, and the vast majority don't name suspects. If anything men should be worried about sexual harassment from coworkers, as it is way more statistically likely that men will be a victim of sexual harassment then falsely accuse of harassment themselves.

So the people who say that this is a measure that must be taken to protect men are flat out Neo-Segregationists. They don't really care about false accusations but want to use it as an excuse to treat women as second class citizens at work or to push them out of the work force entirely. If you truly fear false accusations, have a third party witness. Simple enough, its common practice within the medical profession to have a third party for sensitive treatment so both parties are calm. A third party benefits both those who fear harassment and false accusations of harassment and assault. Jumping to pushing women out of the workforce is straight up sawing your foot off over a hangnail.

False Rape Accusers Should Get The Same Sentence As Rapists

A common cry for those within the MRA movement is that "these false accusers are getting off too easy". That they ruin countless men's lives and only get a slap on the wrists. But that shows a great error in their thinking is the trust that the criminal justice system gives just punishments to rapists in the first place. If we are going to punish false accusers the same way that we do punish rapists then false accusers should get:

10 Years of probation

3 Months of Jail

5 Years of probation

That of course doesn't take into account the countless who have sexually assaulted and gotten away with it. If MRAs called for this guideline I can't help but feel they would be even more disappointed in the sentencing. If we treated false rape accusers the same as rapists then we as a society wouldn't take them that seriously.

Also I want to quickly address the other MRAs call for those who have made false accusations to be placed on the Sex Offender Registry.This is asinine. First of all. this is an improper use of such a list but more importantly that publicly available list would then create a public list of people you can rape without repercussions. Think about it. If you publicly branded people as "False Rape Accuser" then which people would rapists target?

Putting extra laws and punishments on this much smaller issue of False Rape Accusations put more pressure on legitimate victims of sexual assault. Under the existing law there are cases of legit victims being classified by police as false victims. If you add additional punishment then we will punish legitimate victims of rape 20 years in prison for just reporting their rape and police not believing in them. And that will have a chilling effect on the rest of victims of sexual assault out there. Its hard enough as is, but if you are unable to prove it and you "act like a slut" then you could face jail time.

False Rape Accusations and Race: An Intersectional Analysis

by /u/BreShark

The history behind rape accusations involving a black male perpetrator and a white female victim is wrought with trauma, death, and ruination. So much so that it has colored (no pun intended) our perception of consensual sexual acts between black men and white women. The cases of Emmett Till, The Central Park Five, and The Scottsboro Boys are just famous--or rather, infamous--examples of black men and boys being harshly, cruelly, and even unlawfully punished and scrutinized for the mere allegation of fraternizing with white women. Due process, while a lovely ideal for all cases of sexual assault, has historically not worked in favor of black men and boys, mainly due to the trial of their peers utilizing all-white peers with clear and even subconscious bias against black men.

While, yes, there are cases of black men being falsely accused of raping white women and having their lives ruined, the MRA response of labeling these incidents as emblematic of a wider epidemic of false accusations is faulty and disingenuous for several reasons.

When we talk about white women falsely accusing men of sexual assault and the fearmongering surrounding it, black men and MRAs have differing reasons for their fears depending on two aspects of that white woman's identity: her race and her gender. To put it simply, black men attribute their fear to her whiteness (race), while MRAs attribute their fear to her womanhood (gender).

Public outrage over black men assaulting white women is backed by racial bias, not necessarily a need or desire to protect white women. White patriarchy uses white women's supposed purity and maidenhood and the need to protect it as a veil to hide their racial prejudices against minority men by casting them as insatiable beasts who will ravage white women and "ruin" them when given the chance. While white women did take part in the resulting punishments of lynching for their own political and social gains, it was often the white men themselves who carried out these lynchings.

Men's Rights Activists, on the other hand, view rape accusations from white women (or any woman from that matter), with extreme scrutiny. The hand-wringing over false accusations is built on a bedrock of misogyny manifested as an inherent mistrust of women, viewing them as conniving liars who will jump at the chance of accusing any man of rape for several reasons, often citing potential financial gain, the regret of sexual encounters, or vengeance.

Black men have historical reasons to fear for their actual lives after accusations. MRAs, particularly white ones, do not.

So, whosoever tries to highlight false accusations against black men by white women by either solely addressing the gender aspects or downplaying the racial components should be looked at with the highest of suspicion.

[–]Funny_Wolverine_9 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Conclusion

To me this ultimately proves why these issues come up in manosphere groups more often then male sexual assault. Because its being used as a weapon to try to push society and law to a more regressive state then before. MRAs are a Regressive Wolf in a Progressive Sheep clothing. They don't really care about victims of false allegations. Instead, it's a means to justify "Moving the burden of proof to a reasonable level" that makes it impossible for many legitimate victims to seek justice. For Tucker Carlson and other ultra conservatives its just a means to justify removing women from the workforce and back into houses. That's what this whole issue is to the far right, just a vehicle to push for radical and extremist policy.

That's why MRA subreddits and Reddit as a whole underreports on male victims of rape. Because admitting that rape of men is a common thing only helps prove that rape in general is a very common affair and that the 1 in 6 statistic was right the whole time. Saying that rape is a real problem in western society forces them to stop ignoring it.

So remember this TL;DR when you think about false rape accusations.

TL;DR

You are way more likely to be raped than falsely accused of rape, no matter your gender.

The estimated number of false rape accusations are around 2-10% at the highest.

For 216 false rape accusations, only 39 named any suspects and only 2 got charged. That means that only 18% of false rape accusations actually accuse someone and that only 0.9% of false rape accusations ended up on court.

55% of false rape accusations are in hopes of getting access to medical treatment, followed by teenagers justifying their absences to parents.

Serial accusations and people accusing others to get a promotion or to cover for a failed test almost never happens. The individuals who do tend to have a clear cut history of other forms of fraud in their history and are usually legitimate victims of sexual assault as children.

Accusations on decades old sexual assaults, and sexual promiscuity and self denial are not indicative of a false rape accuser.

Older studies on the issue tend to be unreliable due to the limited knowledge of rape and how victims act.

Police tend to accuse people of false accusations way more than there are false accusers due to use of pseudoscience equipment like the Polygraph or sexist beliefs like slut-shaming

It's more likely that police will dismiss a real victim of sexual assault as false then accuse someone falsely of sexual assault.

The whole issue of false rape accusations have been hijacked by reactionaries as a vehicle to push for infringements of women rights. As the data shows the issue of false rape accusations are over hyped and the narrative spread on the internet just doesn't hold up

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Let me offer an alternative to forgiveness. Indifference! The opposite of love is not a hate, it's indifference. I think the goal should always be to move towards complete indifference towards the STBX/Ex. The path to get there varies from person to person. However a great place to start we'll be looking at stoic philosophy.

The only things you can control are your thoughts and your actions. We often get into these situations and loops because of how we feel we were treated unfairly, or how the other person acted. Other people's thoughts, feelings and actions are not under our control. It's almost a form of insanity to believe that they are. We know this internally, but for some reason it still really bothers us when other people do things we don't like or hurt us.

You don't have to release, bless, forgive or let go. You do need to accept. I accept that the STBX acted this way, I accept that I choose to act that way. I am in control of myself and my life. Everything that happened in the past, is just that, the past. I cannot change it, but I can't change control my future. I wake up today knowing that everything that happened in the past is dead, I take what's left of my life and I now choose to leave it properly.

I choose to be physically fit, emotionally fit, mentally fit and financially fit. Don't make decisions based off what she will or won't do. Make decisions based off what you will do or what you will not do. Other people can react to you as they see fit. Do that which is best for you at all times, and work on being indifferent.

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[–]dranic[S] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

She was raising the kid while she got her PhD, I had to deploy to maintain our lifestyle, granted, hindsight being 20 20, I shouldn't have. Her loans got tied up in a lawsuit. I went to South America at the beginning of the pandemic, She started stashing cash, got her PhD, got a job making commensurate salary, and dropped me within a month of when I got home. We negotiated a settlement agreement, my state requires a year separation prior to divorce. Since I had been deployed so much, I was told I could probably win custody for 50 50, but if she battles it, it will be 140k in marital assets, and drag for 2 years. I hunkered in the house, police called on me, violence against me. So I gave up all the cash, and bought custody. Shitty or not, I felt like it was best to pay now and save the trauma of court. Then the housing market exploded.

Just to be clear. I had contributions to the dissolution of our marriage, I worked too much. Didn't pay enough attention to her, burnt out, and when she separated from me I became suicidal, which she encouraged at the time. But it was my depression and PTSD that pushed her away

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To know that your child is terminal sounds like the heaviest weight imaginable. To deal with that, plus the ex that is taking advantage… I don’t know how you do it. My daughter was severely ill for a year, and spent nearly 5 months in the hospital. She got through it, but several other parents I met during that time lost their kids. It was horrible to see. Can you lose the debt through bankruptcy? Did your lawyer really suck? In NY, the moneyed spouse has to pay a portion of the other spouse’s legal fees. That prevents the protracted legal battle threat your wife is making. (On the flip side, it encourages the expensive legal battle my wife is making.) Many people have offered me advice that I have not yet learned to follow myself: don’t forget to take care of yourself. I hope you can do better with that than I have.

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Title	Can't overcome the resentment
Author	dranic
Upvotes	55
Comments	51
Date	September 6, 2022 11:32 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/Divorce_Men
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/Divorce_Men/comments/x7pchi/cant_overcome_the_resentment/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/Divorce_Men/cant-overcome-the-resentment.1129819 https://theredarchive.com/post/1129819

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