"Historical oppression" of women

pearl_harbour1941 · 2022-09-13T15:54:24+00:00

I wrote this in 2019, hopefully it may help you.

[Question: Historically, why were women always facing oppression and inequality?]

This question makes an assumption that is based on US feminist re-writing of history.

It isn’t true.

While it is entirely feasible that some women faced oppression and inequality, it cannot be concluded that all women faced the same.

This list shows the female Heads of State or government across the world, in just the 20th century: List of elected and appointed female heads of state and government - Wikipedia You’ll see it’s a reasonably sized list, and it doesn’t take into account any of the previous European or African Queens[1] [2] [3] , nor Asian Empresses[4] [5] , nor female-led tribes[6][7], nor indeed Matrilineal religions[8].

It must be concluded that in all of those countries in the above 9 links, women have had the opportunity to “reach the top”, and/or exert significant influence over the entire of their respective societies.

Even within Anglo-derived societies, of which the US is one, prominent historic feminists have tacitly acknowledged the significant power that women held over men:

“Women, commonly called Ladies, are not to be contradicted in company…”

"Educate women like men," says Rousseau, "and the more they resemble our sex the less power will they have over us." This is the very point I aim at. I do not wish them to have power over men; but over themselves. - Mary Wollstonecraft, Vindication of the Rights of Women… 1792[9]

This is a tacit acceptance that women held a special place in English society, one which was afforded special respect by men, albeit also one limited by rights. She acknowledges Rousseau being right - that women have power over men, but that she does not think this such a worthy goal as “self-empowerment”. Not just that, but the less educated women are, the more power they hold over men.

The feminist re-writing of history, perhaps into herstory, is one of the greatest swindles of our time. It is entirely disingenuous - an attempt to paint all women throughout all time as victims of a mythical Patriarchy, where there is insufficient evidence to do so, and much evidence against.

It is Marxism 101, reinterpreted to place men as the oppressors (the Bourgeoisie), and women as the oppressed (Proletariat).

Mary Wollstonecraft would not have wanted this. She would have wanted you to become self-empowered, not a continual victim.

Footnotes

[1] 10 Fearless Black Female Warriors Throughout History

[2] Nefertiti

[3] List of queens regnant - Wikipedia

[4] The 10 Most Famous Chinese Empresses

[5]All About Empress Suiko of Japan, the First Japanese Woman Ruler

[6] Top 7 African Tribes Where Women Literally Rule

[7] 6 Modern Societies Where Women Rule

[8] Matrilineality in Judaism - Wikipedia

[9] Mary Wollstonecraft, A Vindication of the Rights of Women, 1792

I hope it helps.

Note: Mary Wollstonecraft is revered by feminists. Heads may explode if you quote her. Bring suitable cleaning equipment for the mess that ensues.

iainmf · 2022-09-14T03:47:58+00:00

First you need to determine what you mean by 'women being oppressed'.

There's no doubt that bad things happened to women and still happen to women. Is that sufficient to say 'women were oppressed'?

I would suggest that the phrase 'women have been historically oppressed' means that women have been oppressed compared to men. That is, society was worse for women. It makes no sense to say 'women have been historically oppressed', if men were treated worse than women.

One person I discussed this with defined women's oppression as bad things happening to women, because they are women. So if you define women's oppression as bad things happening to women because they are women, then it's true to say 'women have been historically oppressed'.

Although, I argue that if there were more more bad things happening to men because they are men, then saying 'women have been historically oppressed' is not really precise enough.

NewDemonStrike · 2022-09-14T05:20:52+00:00

I love how they just argue about being opressed all the time and I never found proof of that being true. Even in the roman era women had different options than men, but they were smart and usually had men do things for them.

equalRights111 · 2022-09-13T19:31:27+00:00

I do appreciate that you are looking for research to back up your beliefs and views. However, in practice, you won’t get anywhere. Regardless of what evidence you provide, the answer is always ‘patriarchy’ or ‘that affects women too’ or whatever. Bottom line, it’s always about women, and women being oppressed. Evidence doesn’t seem to hold any weight, and it will just be ‘debunked’ by the opposing side.

It’s a hard pill to swallow. Please do continue to research and find evidence for your beliefs, but don’t expect the other side to believe them!

TankVet · 2022-09-14T01:02:48+00:00

Dude, this is ridiculous. Read a goddamned history book already.

Historic oppression of women is real. Historic oppression of men is real too, if it makes ya feel any better. And of black people, and of white people, and of Asian people, and of Indian people, and so on. People have been oppressed as long as there have been people.

Oppression is real. You can’t debunk historical fact. Women had it especially bad at some points in history. The mistake isn’t believing that women had it bad, it’s believing that only women ever had it bad. Or that comparing miseries does anything but compound them.

Don’t waste your time trying to rewrite history. Try learning it instead.

May_nerdd · 2022-09-14T01:16:17+00:00

usually what people try to do is form a conclusion based on the evidence, not start with a conclusion and go seeking evidence to support it on a clearly very biased forum. If you’re finding it difficult to find evidence that supports your pre existing narrative, consider changing your narrative?

SteveorJimmyorJack · 2022-09-14T06:55:30+00:00

Men have been oppressed since the beginning of times.

2022-09-14T08:06:34+00:00

The draft

2022-09-14T08:07:01+00:00

The draft

gamerlololdude · 2022-09-15T05:53:28+00:00

https://psac-ncr.com/canadian-womens-history/

Here is a timeline of how women were oppressed in Canada.

Here is an analysis of where oppression of women plays a role in US: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d_SYW1ElDb8&list=LL&index=3&t=2268s

Honest_Switch1531 · 2022-09-13T22:43:55+00:00

Women have definitely been discriminated against in the past. In some countries they still are. Trying to deny this is just lying and disingenuous. The point is that there are no discriminatory laws now in many countries. In fact there are laws that make discrimination illegal in many places.

icefire54 · 2022-09-14T07:35:19+00:00

Well any claim that women were historically oppressed (as well as in 3rd world countries) specifically for being women is on them to demonstrate. Patriarchy (real patriarchy, not the feminist version of it) existed by necessity due to the conditions of the time. Here's how E. Belfort Bax put it:

It would not be difficult to show, were it worth while , that even the disabilities of women in past times have been grossly exaggerated by apostles of the feminist cultus who have, of course, taken a brief to prove the wickedness of "horrid man" to the poor downtrodden female. Such disabilities as really obtained were for the most part the necessary outcome of women's position as non-combatants in a rude fighting age, and certainly did not originate, as is generally represented, in any deep- laid scheme of male devising. In return for a certain formal subjection, in some respects, they obtained not only the blessing of protection, then an important matter, but valuable privileges in other directions. An impartial student of history must admit that, however badly men have treated their fellow-men, they have always treated women with comparative generosity.

The Legal Subjection of Men

The whole modern woman’s movement is based, in a measure, at least, on an assumption which is absolutely unfounded – to wit, that man has systematically oppressed woman in the past, that the natural tendency of evil-minded man is always to oppress woman, or, to put it from the other side, that woman is the victim of man’s egoism! The unsoundness of this view ought to be apparent to every unbiassed student of history, anthropology, and physiology. The Feminist prefers to see evidence of male oppression in the place woman has occupied in social and political life, rather than the natural consequence of her organic constitution, her secondary sexual characteristics, and the natural average inferiority which flows therefrom. As regards the personal relations between men and women, an impartial view of the case must inevitably lead to the conclusion that whatever else man in general may have on his conscience, no reasonable reproach lies to his score as regards his treatment of woman. The patience, forbearance, and kindliness, with which, from Socrates downwards, men as a rule have encountered the whims, the tempers, and the tantrums of their often unworthy womankind is indeed a marvel. But it is a still greater marvel that Modern Feminism in this, as in other things, should have succeeded in hocussing public opinion into the delusion that the exact opposite of the truth represents the real state of the case. This, however, is a marvel which runs through the history of the controversial exploits of the whole Feminist Movement.

The Fraud of Feminism

Take in mind, he wrote these in the late 1800s and early 1900s, so the time period he was referring to was even earlier than that. And he demonstrated in these works that women were actually privileged at the expense of men at that period of time.

Also, read The Privileged Sex by Martin van Creveld

Lendari · 2022-09-13T20:45:11+00:00

I would be careful. The facts are like this.

Women in the United States have enjoyed equal voting rights for over 100 years and equal employment and educational opportunity under the law for over 60. As a result millennial women and younger living in the Unites States have never directly faced broad systemic discrimination or "patriarchy".
Millennial women living in the United States have disproportionately large opportunities relative to men due to affirmative action programs, social safety nets and educational scholarships that exclude men solely because of their gender.
The original words of the 1776 constitution were not intended to discriminate against women nor were the framers of the constitution on the record as seeking male domination. The framers of the constitution lived during a period known as the European Enlightenment and were among the first European human right's activists. Most examples of discrimination in the 1800's were state level laws that contradicted the framer's intents.

These facts do NOT mean that women have never faced systemic discrimination in the United States.

Some states had discriminatory or otherwise unconstitutional laws for decades. On the whole, it probably sucked to be a poor or middle-class American woman living on the East coast of the United States in the 1800's. Women who were wealthy (owned property), or lived in more western states may have been slightly better off.

motorbird88 · 2022-09-13T15:26:45+00:00

But women have been historically oppressed.

unluckieduckie · 2022-09-14T01:21:27+00:00

Reminds me of the guy on reddit who was trying to find a book on the Indian Removal Act that didn’t list the Native Americans as victims, lol.

You cannot be serious with this post. This HAS to be a troll.

Either_Cover_5205 · 2022-09-14T18:44:59+00:00

Average r/mensrights user, your an idiot if you can’t even open up a book and read

Tooma8 · 2022-09-14T12:18:04+00:00

This is honestly pathetic, it's like a white person saying "ohh racism doesn't exist black people were never oppressed"

egirlwhore_ · 2022-09-14T15:54:25+00:00

No seriously thanks I needed this laugh 😭😂

Faust_TSFL · 2022-09-14T16:59:26+00:00

Of course women have been historically oppressed have you ever opened a history book? Absolute muppet...

mikuhero · 2022-09-14T17:38:22+00:00

You are so stupid

luigilabomba42069 · 2022-09-14T18:00:49+00:00

the mental gymnastics here are of Olympic levels

aughnotthis · 2022-09-13T19:22:50+00:00

This whole sub is a joke

GeheimerAccount · 2022-09-13T19:39:43+00:00

most unbiased reddit user

REHarris1952 · 2022-09-15T03:04:24+00:00

I got banned off a sub Reddit because I made the valid point against someone who was saying here’s to all the lives of women who fought against the patriarchy but the monarch with the most deaths under their reign was Elizabeth I and she could have changed the structure of society at any time but didn’t…… I wonder why

Title	"Historical oppression" of women
Author	Sininenn
Upvotes	37
Comments	164
Date	September 13, 2022 3:17 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/xdaa85/historical_oppression_of_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/historical-oppression-of-women.1131170 https://theredarchive.com/post/1131170

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