The SCOTUS ruling on RVW is about theocracy, not patriarchy.

DavidByron2 · 2022-05-10T06:18:37+00:00

Feminists don't actually support abortion rights per se. As with everything else they merely use the issue as a vehicle to push anti-male hate. That is why they pretend that all men are anti-abortion and all women are pro-abortion even when everyone knows that's false. As an argument it is ineffective but as hate propaganda it is effective.

tired_hillbilly · 2022-05-10T04:46:55+00:00

You don't have to be religious to be pro-life. I'm an atheist and pro-life.

patxiku93 · 2022-05-10T10:27:39+00:00

I don't know how the US legal system works, but as far as I've read, the main reson to overturn RvW is because the Supreme Court made a decision that has been unofficially used as law, when doing so is unconstitutional.

The whole debate about abortion rigths is feminist muddying the waters, since abortions rigths would be legislate at state level anyways, or congress could pass an actual law enshrining the right for once and for all instead of bringing it up every election cycle.

auMatech · 2022-05-10T05:21:33+00:00

Pretty clear they are more interested in hating men than helping women.

Yeah pretty much. It's easier to blame the fictional 'patriarchy' than admit that women also oppose abortion.

The men who already support abortion rights are conveniently dismissed

Fean2616 · 2022-05-10T12:50:47+00:00

The US is. Very confusing place, basic things like abortion being make illegal, not healthcare system either. Most other developed countries have this all sorted with no issues, yet the US persists... Really quite sad.

2022-05-10T13:15:24+00:00

I think your conflating the issue with your own personal beliefs.

Most people are pro life because life, biologically begins at conception. Now whether that constitutes “personhood” is a different story.

One does not have to be religious to believe in the science that cells begin to develop at the moment of conception and only stop with the death of that life.

SentientApe · 2022-05-10T11:57:22+00:00

It's not about either. It's about preservation of the Constitution, the distribution of powers between the 3 branches of government, and distributed powers between the States and the Federal.

The Supreme Court's decision, when passing Rowe, created a law and this is specifically restricted to the Legislative, not the Judicial.

No where in the Constitution is there a portion that deals with 'right to abortion'.

I'm pro-choice, but I'm also a constitutional conservative, and I don't like when the Branches overstep their bounds.

The Supreme Court should have never taken Rowe's case to begin with, it should have been relegated back the the State in which it started or pushed it over the Legislative to make a law.

ChadWolf98 · 2022-05-10T13:05:27+00:00

Its a bad argument but not because its the patriarchy.

It has nothing to do with a theocracy. Its about state rights.

ThrillaDaGuerilla · 2022-05-10T12:22:02+00:00

Lol...."theocracy."

Pepperclue_55 · 2022-05-10T19:04:33+00:00

I agree with you 1000%

Teacupsaucerout · 2022-05-10T16:02:10+00:00

You said you wanted to have a discussion about this, so I’d like to share my perspective. It isn’t about men controlling women but it isn’t about religious beliefs either.

Reducing abortions is not the goal of these abortion bans. One of the main goals is to trap as many people as possible in generational poverty.

Billionaires want people to be trapped in poverty so they can continue exploiting them.

People with debts or multiple jobs can’t always afford to start a union or find a better job. Maintaining generational poverty is also related to increasing the supply of poor people for prison labor and military enlistment as well as increasing felony disenfranchisement (so people can’t vote for change). The purpose of polarizing issues like abortion is to distract and divide people so we don’t realize who is actually harming and exploiting us: the super wealthy. You and I have far more in common with homeless people than we do with billionaires.

If politicians wanted to reduce abortions, we would have comprehensive sex education, free and accessible contraceptives, male birth control methods beyond condoms/vasectomies (like Vasalgel), affordable access to healthcare, paid parental leave, paid medical leave, affordable childcare, a social safety net for struggling people, I could go on. Data shows that those policies actually reduce abortions.

I probably will get downvoted here, but this message is really for OP, u/LOAHS

Edit: Evangelicals supported RvW until the IRS wanted to remove tax-exempt status from institutions that engaged in racial segregation.

Some religious people argue that low birth rates are bad for society. This article has a lot of information and data about birth rates

We could ease the problems of a low-fertility society if we’re willing to invest in children’s education and better support women in the workforce.

People who are healthy, educated, and not burnt out stay in the workforce longer. People like contributing to society when they feel like society is worth it.

In the US, we are raised knowing that, unless a relative or friend is willing to help, we will not be taken care of. It affects everything we do and all of our relationships.

What would it be like to live in a country where, at minimum, you knew you would be able to get by? Every other developed nation on earth knows what that feels like but we don’t.

They still have poverty and other suffering, but they don’t suffer the many symptoms of the level of desperation and alienation we have in the US. It doesn’t have to be this way. We can build a compassionate society. We are all worthy of love and belonging. We are all searching for connection and care. We can build that world, especially through collaborative action. We are not powerless.

Here is some more data about how access to abortion improves the lives of children and society in general, not just women.. Scroll down to and click on Findings to expand that section of the report and search for the section called “Macroeconomics benefits and value.”

jmcsquared · 2022-05-10T16:24:41+00:00

I completely agree. I also think it's absurd and a sign of extremism that you're getting banned for even having the conversation. Those two subs aren't really what they claim to be, they're just far left subs circle jerking with each other to reinforce their ideologies.

Nachtlicht_ · 2022-05-10T08:50:05+00:00

That should be obvious tbh lmao you got banned. I'd argue it's their blindness what holds access to abortion back. You can't solve real issues living in your imaginary world.

2022-05-10T16:02:14+00:00

Indeed, it's not about women's rights but about who thinks removing the embryo is essentially murder and how they justify that opinion, which are almost always religious views.

Feminists making this into something that it's not is just one more attempt at dividing men and women, the favorite feminist pastime.

jrackow · 2022-05-10T16:08:36+00:00

The argument that tries to tie this in with religion-only is deceptive. Anyone can scientifically note that there's a living baby in the mother's womb, and if you have the stomach for it, watching an abortion video (especially late-term) will give anyone a reality check about the truth of the argument. I understand some of the pro-choice arguments. However, the ones that try to act like the baby is not living, that there's no pain, or really anything other than the mom's choice, are disingenuous. Abortion is brutal.

proteios1 · 2022-05-10T17:52:22+00:00

no. the male dominated AMA bullied midwives, etc. out of birthing. Monopolized that (and nearly all) medical practices). Abortions were performed by physicians before RvW as it was just a procedure. Forceps being used to extract a child because...hey, just a procedure. It really is about a male dominated industry that wants women on contraceptives and as a backup abortion, so that the harvey WEinsteins of the world that run things can use women and not deal with the consequences. The fact women fell for feminism and now demand contracptive drugs and abortions to negate who they are and their biology is at least strange, at most disturbing, but part of the plan men had when they foisted this joke on women.

JohnTheMan03 · 2022-05-10T09:09:46+00:00

"Support for abortion rights is roughly equal between men and women."

Except abortion is not being put to a vote in the public.

The decision is being made by 9 Supreme Court justices. 6 men and 3 women. 2 of the women on the Supreme Court have a history of voting for abortion rights.

So really, it is the 6 men on the Supreme Court that will determine if abortion is a right or not. So whether or not women have a right to access to abortions is entirely in the hands of those men.

Dr-Crobar · 2022-05-10T17:42:26+00:00

r/atheism would love you.

AdAcademic4290 · 2022-05-10T20:29:07+00:00

Who wants a legal system / system of government whose rulings are based on sentiment and emotion, rather than reason and reality?

This is the ultimate expression of populism - a mockery of legal process tainted with extreme religious ideology, in order to bully and harm vulnerable people in a secular society.

AdForeign6097 · 2022-05-10T22:21:48+00:00

Ayo what gender relations do you think that Christian theocracy in the USA is trying to enforce

neveragoodtime · 2022-05-11T02:50:30+00:00

So do you think laws against murder are about the theocracy? Or do you only blame the theocracy for laws you disagree with?

TAPriceCTR · 2022-05-11T17:15:23+00:00

do more religious people than nonreligious people value the innocent life of unborn babies? yes. but that does not make valuing the life of unborn babies religious. an unborn baby is less a burden than is a severely disabled down syndrome yet valuing their life seems universal.

oops, sorry, like you I got distracted into abortion itself rather than RvW... RvW was a case of bench legislation and is an extreme violation of the 3 separate but equal branches of the US government. I am not a staunch federalist and as such don't care whether abortion is handled at a federal level or state level... but it MUST be handled by the LEGISLATURE, not the courts. until the LEGISLATURE has written law surrounding fetucide, the courts can't rule on it in a secure manner, and until it is written into an amendment it can't be called a right.

interpreting the right to privacy to justify unimpinged fetucide would be like saying I can beat my wife as much as I want and unless SHE SPECIFICALLY complains to the cops, even carving my signature into her flesh is protected under the right to privacy. that is a ridiculous application of the "right to privacy" but that is exactly what happened to rule on RvW, and since the killed while unborn lacks the physical ability to complain to the police it is a perfectly safe to commit.

UltimatePleb_91 · 2022-05-12T15:29:59+00:00

Based.

Title	The SCOTUS ruling on RVW is about theocracy, not patriarchy.
Author	LOAHS
Upvotes	63
Comments	102
Date	May 10, 2022 4:41 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/umagk8/the_scotus_ruling_on_rvw_is_about_theocracy_not/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/the-scotus-ruling-on-rvw-is-about-theocracy-not.1209931 https://theredarchive.com/post/1209931

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