Contrary to what is said here, most guys who struggle with women do need to work on themselves

Fearless_Method_1682 · 2023-07-05T19:31:45+00:00

> Contrary to what is said here

Bluepill: work on being better to get women

Redpill: work on being more alpha to get women

Blackpill: if you have to try this hard it's already over

mxp68 · 2023-07-05T19:53:55+00:00

JFC - I call gaslighting on this one.

Why is it so hard for women to just collectively admit that physical attraction is what gets your foot in the door? Every. Single. Time.

Women literally get insulted if you suggest they consider a man’s character above physical attraction (“Rrreeee- I have a constitutional right to choose the hottest guy!”) but then 5 seconds later will blame men for not improving their approach / communication skiils.

I’m not walking around blaming ugly women for their lack of dating skills, why not just leave unattractive guys alone to deal with reality and let them get on with their single lives?

Rach1943 · 2023-07-05T19:29:58+00:00

Well, it depends on the definition of "Struggle".

Struggle to get attraction from women?

Struggle to get dates?

Struggle to get second/third dates?

Struggle to get into relationships?

What are you standards? are there actually women who are interested in you that you reject?

I "struggle" to get into relationships - but I don't have an issue getting dates, attracting women, or getting sex. finding someone whom I'm attracted to who is also attracted to me and is in the right place/time for a relationship WHILE having to compete with other men (since the women I want is probably heavily desired by other men) is very difficult for me - you could argue "I need help" - but it's less "I'm deficient and need serious help" and more just changing my approach a little / filtering better / going on more dates and recognize it takes time.

My current "sticking point" is that I can get women I'm attracted to on the first few dates, but they seem to fall off quickly, no matter how much chemistry and/or confirmation I get from them that they want to see, so that is what I have to "improve" on

peteypete78 · 2023-07-05T19:39:24+00:00

Most men who do have partners (which is most men)

That doesn't apply to the under 30's crowd (which I think are the men who struggle the most are in that age range)

Rhinosaur666 · 2023-07-05T19:57:22+00:00

Some people may need to work on themselves. Most need to realize that they are much better than they are. The key element is how one feels about themselves. You could have a list of achievements and still feel like a loser. And since women can read from across the room how you feel about yourself, they will ignore you.

All a man needs to do is learn to feel good about himself, be proud of himself, his accomplishments, etc and be okay with who he is. Self accepting.

AlmostKindaGreat · 2023-07-05T20:04:05+00:00

I don't always characterize it as some hapless loser's "fault" for not getting women, but I do say it's always 100% his responsibility. This guy may have been told a lot of things that encourage complacency, the most obvious being Just Be Yourself. But a guy has to realize it's his responsibility to change his situation and nobody is going to save him except himself. So he needs to get moving. He needs to realize that being who he is is not good enough for women... yet.

I don't know if I'd focus on the things on your list first. The components of initial attraction for women are: looks, status, superficial charm. Real personality and values come later.

Are you communicative? ❌ Doesn't matter, as long as you're charming and seem socially adept. If that's what you meant then yes, this is important.
Are you hard working? ❌ Doesn't matter, she won't know your values for a while. This only matters if it gets the guy a job that confers status
Honest? ❌ Doesn't matter at first, she won't be able to truly assess this for a while
Do you dress well? ✅ Ok, you do need to do this. Dressing well maximizes your physique and indicates status.
Do you have a career plan? ✅ Yeah, you need to maximize your professional status, so work on that.
Are you educated? ⚠️ Kind of matters, diplomas are usually not recognized as high status by women unless they are academics and/or it's from a top university. Also matters to get a high-status job, usually.
Mature? ❌ Doesn't matter, she doesn't know your real personality until later.

All those things that I said don't matter DO matter later on, when moving toward a real relationship. Guys that struggle with women usually have trouble getting their foot in the door. You should work on both, but catering to initial attraction is what will actually give a guy experience communicating and sustaining attraction with women.

Independent_Day678 · 2023-07-05T20:14:28+00:00

As a woman, I think this goes for both genders. Being unsuccessful in dating isn't necessarily about being physically unattractive or having some moral flaw of character. Sometimes it's the wrong location and time. Sometimes it's a shy and reclusive or even non-mainstream personality, low self esteem, trauma and mental illness or all of the above, which need to be worked on.

Critical_Lettuce2899 · 2023-07-05T20:24:33+00:00

For a man, it always comes down to Looks, Money & Status, nothing else. Not education, not maturity and especially not honesty.

Take TRP

babazuki · 2023-07-05T20:25:51+00:00

Relationships and marriage numbers have been consistently going downwards for decades. You think it's just men being lazy?

Men have not changed. There has always been a solid spread of losers, average dudes, and highly successful and attractive dudes.

Women have changed. Women are pursuing their careers and increasing their standards. They aren't interested in average dudes anymore. They all think they are entitled to the higher earning dudes because they make money themselves now.

Men are just censored from telling career women that they're still average. They're actually a bit heavier than they used to be and less pleasant to be around and they sleep around more and they're overall not worth the effort they're asking for.

You can't expect men to keep improving themselves for women that keep decreasing their appreciation for that man's work. And even if men as a whole did work harder in careers and education, women would just point out the wage and education gap and demand they get equal compensation.

Women didn't fight for the right to work to be more attractive to men. Women didn't fight for sexual liberation to be better marriage candidates for men. But for some crazy reason it's considered misogynistic to let women know that men don't care about their careers and sleeping around makes you unattractive. It should be common sense, but you can't say it. It's led to mass delusion in women that their careers will lead them to a happy marriage with a man that is just as successful as them and it's fine to be promiscuous, they shouldn't even look at average dudes because they deserve better.

(It's fine if a woman realizes all of this and just doesn't care about being with men. She could pursue her career. Good for her. More power to her.)

InjectAdrenochrome · 2023-07-05T19:38:16+00:00

Idk some guys are just ugly unfortunately.

TelevisionGloomy5458 · 2023-07-05T19:39:46+00:00

A lot of the men on this subreddit appear to not like women or see as human beings. And also I think many would be embarrassed if people in their real lives knew what they say about women online. Lastly, men nowadays seem to always want to argue online and in real life with women about gender war B.S. like it’s their duty to pick a fight and put us in our place for simply expressing ourselves or having a difference of opinion. They can’t seem to respectfully agree to disagree without getting butthurt. And when they complain about women, they take zero responsibility for the type of woman they pick and zero responsibility for their role in their relationships. Until they stop arguing over every little thing and stop trying to control random women, I don’t see how they will have any lasting and loving relationships. Seek first to understand and secondly to be understood. They don’t understand that when they attack feminism, it’s like saying slavery was good. Unpopular opinion to men on this thread, women like having their own bank account, property in their own name. The ability to marry who they want to marry and oh shocker, women like sex too. But they see us as objects and not humans

KayRay1994 · 2023-07-05T19:50:51+00:00

wait you mean i’m NOT entitled to the attention of women just by existing?

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ThrowAwayHuman122333 · 2023-07-05T20:17:49+00:00

I disagree with some of these points. Women will reject men for stupid reasons like their style of dress or their shoes.

There is no magic one-size-fits all approach to attracting women and finding relationships, and that's what makes it difficult.

MyUpSeemsDown · 2023-07-05T20:29:38+00:00

I think better way to put it is generally chronically online men are lacking the ability to self reflect. Because they will instantly get triggered by some sort of generalizing statement "all men are this and that." But red or black pills usually assume women to be some sort of ways and imply negative traits and faults on them, as if that's the holy grail to eventually earning them lol. Like do they not see how counterintuitive it is to rock some sort of toxic generalization about the exact people that they want to be liked by? LOL. It's like being in KKK and wondering why they aren't loved by black people. It's so bassackwards but I'm starting to believe that lot of them don't care to really self reflect, improve to any degree and aren't willing to put any efforts into anything. Or maybe they're just so afflicted that they just can't see themselves out of it, but coping through pills ain't it.

keebydee · 2023-07-05T21:22:20+00:00

Another "it's 100% men fault that they're unsuccessful in dating."

resultsmatter1 · 2023-07-05T21:29:07+00:00

Men have to work on themselves but women have to just breath air.

Title	Contrary to what is said here, most guys who struggle with women do need to work on themselves
Author	Youngking41
Upvotes	1
Comments	113
Date	July 5, 2023 7:21 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/14rkj19/contrary_to_what_is_said_here_most_guys_who/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/contrary-to-what-is-said-here-most-guys-who.1224390 https://theredarchive.com/post/1224390

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