I have a question for LeftWingMale Advocates

SvitlanaLeo · 2024-02-09T19:38:56+00:00

I prefer to be to the left of those who are considered leftists in the West. Fighting for as many women as possible to become bourgeoises and officials of bourgeois states is not a very leftist struggle.

Manoj_Malhotra · 2024-02-09T21:00:30+00:00

Unions and labor rights (and democracy in the workplace) are absolutely crucial for male welfare.

Hence why I find myself on the Left.

SpicyMarshmellow · 2024-02-09T20:36:57+00:00

40-year old radical leftist since the late 90's here.

I have also been distancing myself from the left in recent years, due to the movement's horrible attitude towards men. It is bigotry. Bigotry is inherently the opposite of what I consider leftist values.

As a leftist, I believe in finding the best balance between equality, self-determination, and mutual aid. Creating a society where no one rules unjustly over others, people care for each other, and everyone enjoys maximum personal freedom in the process. I believe in the political rule of thumb that the only justification for restricting one person's freedom is when it infringes on another person's freedom.

More specific consequences of this are that I am extremely opposed to capitalism, war, mass surveillance, and all forms of bigotry. I'm an environmentalist. I'm very critical of police. I think billionaires shouldn't exist. I'm an anarchist - meaning "no rulers". I believe society should be cooperative, not competitive. On specific politics, I am pretty much everything the right makes a boogeyman out of.

But I also recognize men's issues, and have become very anti-feminist over the last few years.

CimZim · 2024-02-09T21:21:22+00:00

If there are no discernible differences between the two sides, I am inclined to distance myself from both the Left and the Right and instead advocate for the support of men throughout my life.

The main difference I've seen, as a female member of LWMA and a former reader of the MRA sub, is this one has far less inclination towards any redpill/AWALT statements. It happens every now and then, but not to the extent it makes one feel unwelcome as a men's rights supporter from the "wrong" sex.

On the other hand (Correct me if I'm wrong for this statement), my disagreement with the left stems from their expectation for men to act as uncompensated workhorses for women's safety, solely because of a generalized notion that "men are bad."

Eh, I'd say that's a difference between The Left and people who are just non-conservative. Like sure, I'm technically on the left...I am pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, in favor of trans rights, believe in the necessity of social aid to prevent people from becoming homeless, think that free school lunches are a benefit to society rather than a sign of an impending apocalypse, etc. But when it comes to ideas like "believe all women" or "yes all men" or "the patriarchy" or "men are all potential rapists"...no. I'm not on board with that shit.

Imo gender roles should be whatever an individual prefers to live by, rather than dictated by one's genitals. I prefer and am more comfortable in traditionally male roles. My lover is happier in more traditionally female roles. This shouldn't be considered bad by anyone, but typically conservatives/people on the Right act as if doing so is leading directly to Armageddon.

Embarrassed_Chest76 · 2024-02-09T19:27:09+00:00

On the other hand, my disagreement with the left stems from their expectation for men to act as uncompensated workhorses for women's safety, solely because of a generalized notion that "men are bad."

This is definitely the view endorsed here! That's a "regressive left" perspective, really... there's an active thread you should check out that addresses this point, among others.

wrinklefreebondbag · 2024-02-09T20:21:07+00:00

I think gender roles are bad, people of all genders should be treated equally, and gendered expectations are stupid and inherently oppressive.

Acknowledging that people of a certain gender have certain typical traits is very different from asserting that they should have those traits.

Gender is (or should be) basically just a very popular subculture. You wouldn't say goths should be given different rights and protections from Disney adults just because there are different aesthetic and behavioural trends in the average members of each group.

Jaded_Japan · 2024-02-09T21:51:06+00:00

Left and right are more than perspectives on gender. While I'm often frustrated with the gender paradigm that's typically endorsed by leftists, I view it as a deviation from the left's usually admirable stances on equality, inclusivity, and opportunity.

Meanwhile, I think that the right's equally objectionable outlook on gender is much more in keeping with their overall philosophy--one that values hierarchy and adherence to traditional social roles.

It's like choosing between a run-down shed with plumbing issues and a nice house with plumbing issues. Sure, they both have issues, but one's still pretty preferable.

Asatmaya · 2024-02-09T20:06:33+00:00

OK, so I am in both communities, as well, and the main problem you are suffering from is a misunderstanding of what, "Left," actually means; you can be a left-wing conservative.

Basically, it boils down to how you view conflict in society; the left sees social problems as arising from class distinctions, and the solution is to negate or nullify those distinctions... NOT TO CREATE NEW CLASS DISTINCTIONS OUT OF NOWHERE!

And this is why feminism is right-wing; it is nothing more than an attempt to distract from actual issues facing society by dividing us along sex and gender lines.

LettuceBeGrateful · 2024-02-10T17:41:24+00:00

I support a woman's right to choose, LGBT+ rights, careful dialogue around sensitive topics such as gender identity, and generally I'm just socially progressive. The main MR sub is more of a mix. What ultimately pushed me to this sub was the transphobia in MR, which wasn't frequent but was rarely condemned when it appeared.

There was also a lot of AWALT statements, which I'd speak up about. Following the ban of the MGTOW subs, I went from getting a lot of support in those comments to getting a lot of pushback. Positive comments about women would more often be downvoted, and a few times I was even dogpiled by people talking about "female nature" as if women are all subjects on a petri dish. Once, when I shared a few positive anecdotes about the women in my life to demonstrate that yes, women exist who care about men, I was told I was lying and needed to "open my mind" or whatever.

I am inclined to distance myself from both the Left and the Right

I've definitely felt like the way things have gone the past few years, regarding not just my gender but my ethnicity, that I'm not safe in either left or right-wing spaces in America, but at least it's the left that supports basic social rights for things like sexuality, while the right is pushing anti-LGBT crap, vaccine denialism, etc. It feels like everything is going off the rails. The best thing you can do right now is probably put the labels aside, and establish who you are and what you believe. Things like who to vote for and which parties to support (if any) will follow.

BKEnjoyerV2 · 2024-02-10T04:06:48+00:00

Most of us here agree with your beliefs, this is probably one of the only places where disagreement with wokes and trads is commonplace and welcome

Sydnaktik · 2024-02-10T13:29:55+00:00

To me, the big distinction between left and right is in terms of social welfare, social equality, economic equality, respect for civil rights. And, within reason, having those things be regardless of who you are or where you're from.

In general while both left and right MRAs tend to agree about the double standards found in society. They tend to disagree in terms of what to do about it.

For example, leftist MRAs may argue for more lenient treatment of men under the law whereas rightwing MRA will argue for harsher treatment of women under the law.

Leftist MRA's will argue for better social welfare support for men, rightwing MRAs may argue for reduced social welfare for women.

There's also the conservative/liberal dichotomy. Where conservative MRAs will argue for a stricter and more constrained set of allowed behaviors that align along gender roles, typically one where the woman is financially dependent on the man in a socio-economic environment where a man can feasibly support an entire household on one salary.

A liberal MRA will typically oppose any kind of gender role expectations. And instead advocate for a more gender blind society (at least on the institutional and legal level).

Also, if you do read all the way here. I'm very confused you say you're conservative but you're not "traditional conservative", to me that doesn't make any sense. By definition, a conservative wants to conserve traditional values. So what is that makes you think of yourself as conservative?

my disagreement with the left stems from their expectation for men to act as uncompensated workhorses for women's safety, solely because of a generalized notion that "men are bad."

I thought that was the conservative view, except their justification is "women are weak and incompetent and belong in the home taking care of the kids", so that's why men must do all the work.

Also this whole notion of "men bad" therefore let's give women all these privileges is anti-left in my view as it fosters inequality. People still call those who promote these views as leftists, but technically they're just not anymore.

From a "true" leftists perspective, the two main sides of the mainstream political sphere are anti-egalitarian traditional conservatives (which contains a bit of misogyny) and anti-egalitarian misandrists.

Hot-Capital · 2024-02-10T05:22:02+00:00

The modern discourse on men's issues are dominated by what you'd call, the right wing. I'm dismayed by the lack of intrest if not outright hostility towards this by liberals and left wingers.

This only hurts the left as it doesn't attract the working class men who used to the core group of supporters for the left. Left should primarily focus on the advocacy of workers rights and not the bourgeois liberal values (which western "leftist parties do).

So that effectively makes me somewhat socially conservative and economically far left by western standards. Many of the problems in society unsurprisingly is the fault of unhinged capitalism and socially liberal policies. It's about time to fix them.

SentientReality · 2024-02-10T14:47:46+00:00

There is big difference between "the left" and this sub.

their expectation for men to act as uncompensated workhorses for women's safety, solely because of a generalized notion that "men are bad."

I'm not an expert on this sub, but from my interactions that is not the case at all. People in this sub are plenty adamant about not working for or submitting to any feminist notions about protecting women as if they are children or self-chastizing for being male/masculine.

You're thinking of MensLib, which I was perma-banned from for simply using the term "woke" unironically when criticizing the concept. If you want insufferable snotclods, go to Menslib. When I pointed out that I hadn't violated any of their stated rules, I received this mod response verbatim: "'I didn't break the rules' is not a ban appeal. Buzz off."

Very principled people over there making the world a better place. /s

Alpha0rgaxm · 2024-02-10T16:42:00+00:00

I am leftist but I am very much opposed to feminism but not women’s rights. And I won’t put up with their shit, period. I am of the opinion that feminism is now a hate movement just like Blue Lives Matter and the Alt-Right. I am very much a masculine man, my girlfriend is feminine af but she has some tomboy traits. We’re also both part of the LGBT community but don’t like what it has become so we stay away from them.

AskingToFeminists · 2024-02-09T20:26:59+00:00

I feel men's rights, the way things are, is fundamentally a left wing progressive cause. It is about championing the rights of those most downtrodden for whom nobody in society wants to care, about changing the social order as a way to improve things for everyone.

That it has been associated with the right is baffling to me.

The sub Mensrights is more known, and has also become a refuge for the various manosphere communities that got canned by reddit, like incel and mgtow. This sub is more "purely" MRA.

AdamChap · 2024-02-10T00:54:07+00:00

We believe men are not being well-served by either side of the mainstream political spectrum. We oppose right-wing exploitation of men's issues as a wedge to recruit men to inegalitarian traditional values. But we also oppose feminist attempts to deny male issues, or shoehorn them into a biased ideology that blames "male privilege" and guilt-trips men.

~from this subreddit's Mission Statement

Here you do get intersectionalists attempting to integrate men's rights. Which is funny because on the face of it would seem easy but in reality is impossible.

I think the Left has "left" a lot of people behind especially in the men's rights department so a lot of swing voters, for lack of a better term, ended up falling into the Right. Also I think the Left has a special relationship with progress and whilst the men's rights on the Right consists mostly of a return to traditionalism, the Left has the harder problem of bringing men into the the same progressive fold as they've managed to bring everyone else into. It's hard though because so much of the Left has a black and white view of oppressor and oppressed.
[^{God being the oppressor to Life itself, men oppressing women, whites oppressing blacks, the rich oppressing the poor, parents oppressing children, ect. -} ^{and all the oppressors being false is key too}^. ^{God is actually the devil or the demiurge, men are actually toxic, white people held black people back on purpose, parents don't know better than their children do ect. Interestingly the contradiction that the oppressor is both powerful and destructive yet truly feeble and weak is something that is found in fascism also} ]

I think you are better off distancing yourself from politicised rights movements in general. Left and Right are two wings of the same shitty bird anyhow.

Mundane-Experience50 · 2024-02-09T22:53:32+00:00

I was expecting more dislike since I am more right-wing (might as well call myself right-wing). Y'all cool fr fr and I respect what you all believe in. However, many other topics are gonna have to disagree on such as LGBTQ+, BLM, etc. God bless.

Karmaze · 2024-02-10T13:55:27+00:00

I am left wing, to be clear. In fact, let me state that I'm not happy about anything I'm about to say, and I wish it was different. I'm taking a sort of realist view on this, because frankly, I'm strongly pluralist and as such I tend to want to steelman/starman other people's views.

The problem is the Male Gender Role. I think another part of the problem is that the Male Gender Role, as it seems to a lot of people, is going in the wrong direction right now. It's becoming more strict, more enforced, more strident. And there's very little if any interest in ACTUALLY challenging it in an effective way.

People talk about the "Redpill". But I think the "Blackpill" plays a much bigger role. That is, when people come to the realization that they are simply unable to affect any sort of real change, and as such, they have to learn to live in the world.

This is where things get ugly, I think both on this topic and others. Because let's be blunt, if the Male Gender Role is going to be enforced more, that actually makes Right-wing politics and culture more desirable, as it stands right now, actually helps men to achieve the expectations that are placed upon them. Can this change? Sure.

Like, I feel like I'm in a weird position because I'm Blackpilled but not Redpilled if that makes sense. I don't think the MGR is going to change anytime soon. I think to challenge it is seen by too many people as essentially misogynistic and anti-social. I don't like this one bit, to be clear. It's no good for me at any level, but it is what it is.

I do think that the left MUST change to match this reality however. Equity is dead because of the existence of the MGR. The crazy incentives and pressures it places on men is going to create inequality. Our entire concept of gender must center itself around the MGR, as being the fundamental force that shapes roles and norms. And at the same time pushing back against the desire for reciprocity in bringing back the Female Gender Role, which feels REALLY unfair, but there's no actual point to it.

So yeah. That's my take. I think men are always going to be workhorses for women's safety, the question is how to compensate men for it. Respect and dignity and all that. Recognition that the MGR SUCKS but it's too useful in a materialistic sense to abandon.

And stop pretending otherwise, gaslighting men into self-destruction.

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