A rejection of modern dating methods - Delete your apps post pandemic

grizzled083 · 2021-05-23T05:00:05+00:00

I agree they’re two different worlds. I hold separate beliefs/values when I’m dealing with them.

Some time in the past I resigned myself to tinder only since it was easier, and bringing a consistent stream of flings.

On the other side, I think unless you’re like the top percentile of dudes, it’s hard not to take blows to your self esteem from it.

I got into tinder as soon as I could pretty much. With needing to improve myself as a man, I feel tinder sort of attracted very shitty relationships/interactions. That I stayed in, and wounded myself further.

The best relationships/ interactions are when I took real chances with women I talked to face to face. I’m always left with a feeling of awe, because it’s scarier, easier, more rewarding, and a lot more natural.

I can’t speak about nightlife, i have had like 0 luck there. I’m just not a party type, and hate drinking.

Alive-Doughnut2345 · 2021-05-23T00:59:56+00:00

Solid post. From my perspective, cold approach when done RIGHT (I.e. respectful and polite, socially adept, giving the other person plenty of space to back out, and promptly taking your leave at the first hint of rejection, also not spamming approaches especially in one area) is a valid tactic for meeting women as long as you are mindful of the situation and don’t take up too much of her time.

Simply put, dating apps are not algorithmically developed or monitored in favour of the average man, which is why I don’t bother with them. And joining social events for the sole purpose of meeting women is incongruent to the purpose of the event itself.

AbbyBilbrey · 2021-05-23T12:26:01+00:00

I’m a girl and and I agree with this message. I like it when a guy approaches me in real life. A woman can sense the difference if a man is being pushy and getting in her space or if he’s just being social, showing interest and putting himself out there. Im always friendly with this type of interaction. I smile, make him feel at ease, and don’t ever make him feel like he’s doing something wrong. If I’m not feeling attracted to him back, I’ll just give off “I’m not flirting, keep it moving, have a great day :)” vibe and 98% of guys will not push it, linger and make me feel uncomfortable. If they do make me feel weird, uncomfortable- the nice goes away and I’m not afraid to make him feel uncomfortable back. I have had the experiences where a guy will get mean and ugly when I have not reciprocated interest. There’s nothing you can do about it, some people are just jerks. Men and women both. I have dated a couple guys from work, met through mutual friends, volleyball league, etc. I’ve gone on dates with someone that came up to talk to me a music festival or a coffee shop. (I hardly ever go to bars and I think that if my person is out there, he’s probably not out at bars all the time). The ones I’ve dated from dating apps have been the least successful, the most dysfunctional and the most unfulfilling. I am all for everyone deleting the apps. We got along fine without them for thousands of years and they don’t seem to be doing much for anybody.

L1ttl3Lun4 · 2021-05-23T11:05:10+00:00

Woman here. I don't get asked out much, but when I have been asked out it was very weird and uncomfortable.

One guy threw his number at me as he left the train, without saying anything.

Another guy told me I looked like a "librarian" (NOT a compliment) and when I said I was late for work he said "let's go to Paris"

I'm open to being asked out on dates but as long as the guy is socially capable enough to talk properly then I'd actually enjoy it.

Regarding the gym, I'd prefer to be asked out before my work out (not during or after) because I can't really focus after work outs and I'm really sweaty, all I wanna do is rush home and shower

heretohelp999 · 2021-05-23T07:35:52+00:00

Very extreme, I like your argument but not your motivation entirely, I think online apps are simply another channel but what has happened is that we have narrowed down our options and naturally cross out other options.

Haunting-Pride-7507 · 2021-05-23T07:32:54+00:00

Solid post. I think I am your target audience so I'll just put in a comment from a larger perspective of socializing and not just dating.

I am recovering "socially inept" person who has recently gained a fair bit of confidence after therapy.

If you have privilege, you will create boundaries that seem unrealistic.

"Don't ask me out in a gym or a library"

It means you have lots of opportunity to meet someone outside of these circles. Maybe on apps or different social circles

Which is fair and very much possible.

But there are others who don't have the same privilege. For example, people who are shy may have limited interests.

Let's face - men and women both need opportunities to connect, socialize, and find potential partners for dating/mating.

If we all use our privilege to lift ourselves up, it'll benefit us and you can use that benefit to help others. It helps everyone this way

But when you use your privilege to put others down, you are creating unrealistic standards that you might be able to live up to, but others can't.

I agree. A lot of introverted/shy guys need to do a lot better in not just approaching girls but also in being more confident in life too. Unrealistic dating standards definitely don't make this transition any easier.

A lot of guys are practicing or need to practice social skills over dating. Dating is a component of social skills, not the whole.

loofyd · 2021-05-23T13:39:53+00:00

WOMEN – MOST MEN ARE TERRIFIED TO ASK YOU OUT.

That's me.. I can't even talk to a girl without sounding nasal, wtf

The guys on Reddit are the guys that need encouragement. They aren’t having success on apps or in their social circles if they even have any. That’s why they come here. They aren't generally bad guys. They are guys who are generally "not socially talented”, for lack of a better phrase.

THANK YOU

Finally someone said this ! I am the guy that needs encouragement, i have had shit draws on Tinder and Bumble and nothing ever worked out !

I really needed to hear this !

If you ask a woman out as a socially adept adult, 99% of the time they will not take your actions as "harassment". Reddit is not Real Life

Yes ! Brilliantly put !

How could i forget !

Reddit, its just a website.. As a Computer Engineer, i can tell you that it's just a big web app being hosted on multiple computers and serving hundreds of thousands of requests from many different parts of the world ! It's just a digital contraption !

It doesn't mean much to begin with, just alot of differing, often conflicting & contrasting, opinions. That's basically all there is to it !

There's no feelings, just a lot of words written by different people. No physicality, no emotion.. No smell, barely any faces, no eye contact, no touch..

NOTHING

Why social circle is useful but deceptive

No wonder i HATE social circle dating, it doesn't feel right and you explained it why !

All i can say is that this post is 137 % accurate ( that's a special number i know )

I really hope i find the courage and the opportunities to day game and meet some interesting, beautiful and cute ladies who i can date and have good, high value experiences with !

Best

surferrosa1985 · 2021-05-23T09:36:13+00:00

I'm a chic and I just deleted mine too. Good post

Ohyarlysmiles · 2021-05-23T04:30:21+00:00

....as a guy who is successful with OLD I COMPLETELY AGREE

The way online dating females treat men is delusional.

IRL women seem to more immediately appreciate and recognize a guy's value.

At least for me the quality is +1-2 points IRL to where I get 8 and sometimes 9's interested and engaged consistently.

Online 6s and sometimes 7's for consistent conversions.

2021-05-23T09:59:58+00:00

“Multibillionaire” lmfao

socialanimal_us · 2021-05-23T14:33:32+00:00

You ll love this video titled - are dating apps making us robots : https://youtu.be/freyUhSW3kI

Boomslangalang · 2021-05-23T15:01:25+00:00

Well said. I didn’t see anywhere how these OLD apps have been designed are designed to be addictive

franhd · 2021-05-23T15:07:40+00:00

This is one of the more quality posts I see on this sub, much appreciated.

I've seen arguments against the day game so many times on Reddit. I believe it's horrible advice. “Don’t ask out x person here because x person is trying to work on themselves in y way or do z activity without interruptions.”

I especially see this on other dating subs. Day game is nothing new. Previous generations did it, it just wasn't coined that way. Ask the elderly, and a handful of them will tell you they met their wife by talking to them on a bus or a train.

Like you said, people give way too many excuses like "she's just there to work out" or "she's just there to study". And while ostensibly that may be true, very few women in reality will flip out just because they're approached while doing some activity in a certain environment. I never thought about your examples, but yes, you're absolutely correct in that the women that you want to meet at the gym or the library or the dog park or wherever, you wouldn't meet them otherwise at just bars and dating apps.

I've had conversations with attractive women about this, and to my surprise then, it wasn't uncommon for them to go somewhere like a store just to kill time and wonder if any guys would approach them or not.

I will also be giving up masturbation. I am doing this as a means to motivate myself to actually talk to people in real life. If I jerk off, it will just be an excuse not to put myself out there and meet potential future long term relationships that satisfy me

I will disagree with you on this. Masturbation is not unhealthy by itself. Excessively masturbating to porn to the point where you don't get hard anymore during sex is. I don't believe there is anything special about no-fap where it gives off some kind of magical aura that lures women. The reason why I think it gives off the effect that it works is because you're committing to at least something, and that drive by itself subconsciously makes you more attractive, not the actual lack of masturbation.

I know a lot of guys will fight me on this, but I honestly believe jerking off once in a while prevents you from making stupid decisions. The most important being dropping your standards and fuck whoever just to relieve yourself. I'm not dissuading you from trying no-fap. I'm just saying you don't have to torture yourself. It's okay to jerk off once in a while, as long as you're not doing it to replace human connection.

thexunnamable · 2021-05-23T16:22:06+00:00

Beautiful post. I'm taking similar measures, as it's summertime and things are opening up. (Frankly, your post will serve as an excellent guide.) I'd love to hear updates on your development with this overall new strategy.

And thank you for speaking up for the men on these subs, as it's ostensibly true that they're not the type of people who hurt others (i.e., women), but that they are the people who come here for help and guidance, which we all need from time to time. I really hate the callous commentaries of many of the women on here who just want to verbally abuse or chastise people for living less than lives of abundance. There is an obvious chasm between the social experiences of men and women, and it's important for neither sex/gender to stage an imposition on the other.

bigmanpav · 2021-05-23T08:54:29+00:00

Great post!!! Very motivating and realistic.

Just my two cents: I've noticed I get zero matches with girls I'd like to go out with. I live in a college town of about 500,000 people and when I walk around the university campus I recognize a lot of women from dating apps! Sometimes they're on their own, sometimes with friends, sometimes with guys on dates! I know this probably means I use the apps too much, but I've actually used it as a tool for my day game. I have approached several women I recognized from dating apps and got 100% success on getting their numbers, setting up a date, and closing.

So fellas: if anything, use the apps to see who's single in your area and then go out and say hi to those girls if you're so lucky to run into them outside. I say something like "hey I recognize you from somewhere, did we meet in London?" and it always works. Good luck out there and thank you OP for a solid contribution

recyclablebanthas · 2021-05-24T03:28:32+00:00

PSA: Some notes on this post, most of which relate to why it was taken down.

1

A rejection of modern dating methods - Delete your apps post pandemic

Modern pick-up has been around since the late 60s/early 70s. Since then, the same basic fundamentals have remained important throughout.

You need confidence (inner game) to make moves (physical escalation). You need good calibration/empathy to read the person and the situation so you make moves wisely. You need good logistics (a place and time for stuff to go down). And good boundaries are helpful so one doesn't mortgages one's own self-respect in the pursuit of a relationship or casual sex.

How do you possibly expect women to sift through hundreds to literally thousands of potential matches, solely by going off of 2d images and profiles that are about 30 words long?

Apps are just a tool.

They were only ever supposed to be supplementary at best. Everyone should be meeting people in real life post pandemic anyway, with apps running in the background if they like. No need to delete them.

2

I've seen arguments against the day game so many times on Reddit. I believe it's horrible advice. “Don’t ask out x person here because......

But the real issue here has never been guys asking girls out at the gym. Guys with game do it all the damn time with no issues if they have good calibration.

So what you're talking about isn't "dating advice." It's humans oversimplifying a situation in an attempt to fix it. Arguing against their stated advice is pointless because the real issue has never been asking girls out at the guy, it's guys with poor social skills doing pick-up anywhere and making accidental messes because they don't know what they're doing.

3

If your future wife or husband interrupted a set at the gym or while you were reading at a coffee shop, you would be mad at them for interrupting you? Give me a break. You’d likely be at least flattered, and at worst, uninterested.

If a dude walks up to a girl and harasses her while interrupting her, does anyone honestly think he's her future husband?

At worst, she's going to be afraid if the guy gets over-aggressive and angry in public. Which a lot of guys do.

Your dismissiveness towards this is unintentionally advising men to shut off their empathy and disregard female feedback. Which runs counter to building good calibration.

We even had a girl literally tell you about her experiences and you were like, "I disagree."

4

Do 95-98% of men actually harass women. No

Citing made up statistics is not allowed here. Data from peer-reviewed studies is welcome though.

Surveys would even be fair game; anything where the people running the data collection list off how they gathered the data and what analysis they did on it.

5

You are using social activities as a guise to pick up women, rather than gathering the courage to ask out women, whom you find attractive when you come across in your day to day life

Should you be social? Yes. Should you do social activities just to meet women? No. Is the current advice on a lot of forums to do just that? Yes, and its wrong

We have data on this kind of thing which indicates that being in a fight or flight response has a certain effect on attempts to learn. To quote the study:

Recent evidence further indicates that stress may hamper the updating of memories in the light of new information and induce a shift from a flexible, ‘cognitive’ form of learning towards rather rigid, ‘habit’-like behaviour."

Which means that when it comes to cold approach, practice often doesn't make perfect..... practice often makes (bad) habits.

Some guys can manage under such circumstances but others can end up banging their heads up against the wall for hundreds and hundreds of approaches. (Let's be real here, some of these guys end up being the guys who ruin it for the rest of us.)

So, suggesting that cold approach as the best way, or as some be-all, end-all is unhelpful.

Meanwhile, people going to a social gathering are warmed up and ready to meet new people. With things being more relaxed, it's easier for lessons to sink in when one's mind isn't in fight or flight mode.

It's not perfect either. People shouldn't be joining social groups and events just to try to find a girl. They ought to be sampling new things but only sticking with things they ultimately like for their own sake.

As with a lot of things, a diversity of approaches can be helpful.

6

In summary:

This post speaks to a lot of very real frustration and problems men face, but the focus ends up in unhelpful places.
People aren't really arguing that guys shouldn't talk to people in public. The issue is guys with a lack of social skills who unintentionally harass women. It's a waste of time to debate about whether guys should talk to girls in Place XYZ. Guys with real game are doing it right now with no issues.
Arguing for cold approach as the only or best way is counter-productive.
Social circle activities done right can be one of the most effective ways to reproduce the social lives we have/had in high school or college. Presenting them as something guys do just to meet a girl, is unhelpful.
Made up statistics aren't allowed. Data from peer-reviewed studies is welcome though.
And being dismissive of women's difficulties runs counter to building calibration, which is a very fundamental seduction skill. This is extremely unhelpful.

Bark4Soul · 2021-05-23T05:22:15+00:00

Tl; Dr

Mr_J111 · 2021-05-23T04:06:47+00:00

Definetly have changed my opinion on day game, especially at the gym. This post deserves gold.

MrWubbert · 2021-05-23T05:05:50+00:00

Fantastic post man! We will be watching your career with great interest.

gingergringa · 2021-05-23T09:00:14+00:00

I fundamentally agree that meeting people in real life more frequently leads to meaningful relationships than dating apps. However, if you are someone who I see in the gym/office other area of life systematically cold approaching women to ask them out, it looks like you are treating that space inappropriately. People do talk to each other even if they don’t see every interaction you have directly.

This is different from seeing someone you are attracted to, in an environment you both regularly frequent, and over time acknowledging each other, starting to talk etc, which may lead to asking them out. The latter very few people would have a problem with, but I would wager you are likely to encounter the type of reaction you have so far with the former. It’s a spectrum, but if the perception of people around you is that you are systematically treating the gym as your own personal dating pen, you won’t get the reaction you’re after.

Compare it to a work environment where you’re looking for a new job and approach me as a someone who may be able to help you with this and may have a job. If you set up a coffee chat and ask intelligent questions, show a genuine interest in the area of business, find links between what you’re doing and what I’m doing etc, I’ll remember you for when I have a job. If you ask me if I have a job and I say not at the moment and you immediately lose interest or leave, you look transactional, selfish and like you don’t see any value in any interactions that don’t provide you immediate gratification.

Have patience, this is a journey and not solely about the destination.

ApothecaryFist · 2021-05-23T05:48:44+00:00

Excellent post my friend

Impressive_Weather60 · 2021-05-23T08:50:32+00:00

Thanks for your advice!

metanatalie · 2021-05-23T12:35:10+00:00

Never had them, not intending to either. But glad for you OP.

Liprubber · 2021-05-23T13:23:38+00:00

Swiping is needy behavior and makes it extremely difficult to demonstrate an abundant frame.

sabanMiles11 · 2021-05-23T10:01:51+00:00

You’re fucking crazy and desperate. 3 women you’ve worked with in the past year that you’d “seriously consider marrying”. Jfc dude it takes a lot longer than that to seriously consider marrying someone. you really do need to get outside

YoMamaz_azz · 2021-05-23T03:09:13+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Kraily4t8 · 2021-05-23T08:51:53+00:00

I will look forward to your dating adventure updates

lordmoriartea · 2021-05-23T11:17:25+00:00

https://youtu.be/_iLnZ4HCrfo This vedio is so apt for this. Watch it guys.

ShongoMcForren · 2021-05-23T15:35:14+00:00

Abandon all dating apps? That's a little extreme. I like what you said and it's good info, but I'm sure you would agree that dating is a numbers game no matter your ultimate goal. Why eliminate a stream of potentials? You could still have day game as your primary focus, not pay for any apps, use it sparingly, and still probably get a date or two per month. I just can't get behind taking away leads especially when it's something you can do while taking a shit

sabanMiles11 · 2021-05-23T16:43:59+00:00

[permanently deleted]

RomanBathSalts · 2021-05-23T00:43:07+00:00

blah blah That's a long-ass post. The best bet is seriously dating apps, having a social media presence, and forgetting about the routine. until things go back to normal, nothing's normal

christopherames · 2021-05-23T13:58:07+00:00

Very well thought out post. It summarizes a lot of the conclusions I’ve come to about dating. I’m also going to try day game and just see how it goes and not be obsessed with the “stats” (approaches, close rate, etc) at first. The only problem I see currently with day game is everyone where I live is still wearing masks so I’m curious if you or others have opinions on approaching women wearing masks. I’m hesitant to do it because they are clearly still concerned about Covid. I’m not really concerned about Covid since I’ve been fully vaccinated.

macadamia128 · 2021-05-23T14:33:28+00:00

Props I've been having the same exact thoughts recently. Like, is my future wife really on tinder right now? No, she's probably working out or buying food to cook a delicious dinner.

lbastro · 2021-05-23T14:46:03+00:00

I cant stand online dating, and I absolutely cannot find myself attached to connections I make on these apps. Of course as a woman my experience there is different than yours, but I totally support tossing the whole thing out the window when the pandemic ends.

I wouldn’t mind being approached in public, in certain situations. Personally I prefer when it’s a situation where I feel like I can leave if I am made to feel uncomfortable, for example approaching me at work wouldn’t be appreciated because I can’t just bail. Gym I wouldn’t mind so much cuz god knows I was looking for a reason to leave anyways ;) or a reason to stay, if you got the right vibe.

steveblahhh · 2021-05-23T15:30:45+00:00

I think the best advice here to have a diversified portfolio. I skew introverted, so dating apps have been a godsend. Guess I'm one of the 10% who've had success on it. But, it is a crutch.

Let's use another app for an anology... GrubHub

it's convenient, satisfying option with little effort. You can find good options in your area on GH. But it's not practical to feed myself daily using it (those who are likely aren't on this subreddit).

I still have to do grocery shopping and prepare most of my meals. It involves some effort but often more rewarding. As an introvert, and this likely applies to everyone, taking opportunities to meet people (including women i'd like to date) in the wild is important. We're humans. Chemistry often won't translate via text

plaze6288 · 2021-05-23T15:58:30+00:00

Dating after a complete waste of time

sabanMiles11 · 2021-05-23T16:10:08+00:00

[permanently deleted]

TheMailmanic · 2021-05-23T16:21:28+00:00

Great post - daygame is definitely harder because you're not in state, but much less shields to deal with as well

IronMan291 · 2021-05-23T17:03:56+00:00

This is the best post I’ve read on here man. Very well done. It echoes my sentiments exactly!

Alive-Doughnut2345 · 2021-05-23T19:30:26+00:00

WHY WOULD YOU REMOVE THIS?? I was hoping to read through it again :(

Title	A rejection of modern dating methods - Delete your apps post pandemic
Author	sabanMiles11
Upvotes	540
Comments	206
Date	May 23, 2021 12:37 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/niw5p6/a_rejection_of_modern_dating_methods_delete_your/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/a-rejection-of-modern-dating-methods-delete-your.1283968 https://theredarchive.com/post/1283968

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