Why Women lose the dating game (or: AFgirl?)

royisabau5 · 2012-04-28T19:35:20+00:00

It says that 20% of the males get 80% of the sex? #OccupyPUA's

TheGameGenie · 2012-04-28T15:54:40+00:00

TL;DR: Try to nail-down your husband while you're in your 20s and at your sexiest.

2012-04-28T16:04:26+00:00

This probly belongs in /r/relationships.

Wow, those business women really were kidding themselves if they thought they'd be able to compete with younger, hotter, and lower maintenance women.

syspak · 2012-04-28T19:51:49+00:00

I do feel that a large percentage of girls are entitled and place an unfair amount of blame on men not being good enough.

Growing up with two sisters, it was sometimes baffling to see them (to be blunt one is probably a 7 and the other an 8) basically ONLY talk about the guys that were 9's and out of their league. Ironically it was my less attractive sister that seemed to be more focused on getting guys out of her league...maybe to compensate or something...and throughout high school was rarely in a good relationship. Luckily with age I think they have both learned to be less picky, but there are still a lot of girls in their twenties that haven't learned this lesson.

In my experience the best girls are the ones who weren't very attractive in middle school or high school...but then blossomed into beauties when they turned 20. Those girls don't have a chip on their shoulder or unrealistic expectations...and are generally just high quality girls all around. Obviously not every girl is an entitled bitch.

Cenodoxus · 2012-04-29T07:09:57+00:00

Gather round, Seddit.

We are going to have a small talk about why so many women lie about their age.

The situation described in this article is essentially the plot of Bridget Jones' Diary. While it's ostensibly the type of "chick lit" that most hetero men avoid like the plague, it's a pretty funny book that explains exactly what this is like from the perspective of a 30-something female.

A note, if I may, concerning the vindictive pleasure with which I often see men greeting this article and others like it:

There are an awful lot of women out there who aren't playing the field in their twenties, but you don't know or hear about them because you aren't pursuing them:

They might be dating, engaged, or married, and thus off the market.
They're not in the dating pool in response to recent grief, family problems, or mental/physical health issues.
There's also the subset of women who, like men, are doing their level best to establish a career in a difficult or competitive field in their twenties and who don't have a lot of time for dating.
And there are even female Forever Alones who would like to find and date a nice guy, but have a crippling fear of trying to sell themselves due to underlying insecurities. (Bonus points because making oneself attractive as a woman involves smart clothing choices and a working knowledge of makeup, hair, and skin care, which girls do not suddenly wake up at the age of 16 knowing how to do.)
On the more depressing side of things, there are also the women recovering from abusive childhoods or abusive early relationships who are advised by friends, family, or therapists to avoid dating while they work on their issues.
And because people are usually more complicated than they appear, there are tons of women for whom multiples of the above factors are all true at the same time.

Why men always have the long-term advantage: The underlying problem is that men are free to take themselves off the market in their twenties for any of the above reasons with no truly ill effects, because age and their increasing buying power as they reach their thirties and forties makes them far more attractive as potential mates. Moreover, you are never not fertile. (Assuming you don't have any inherent problems with your swimmers, that is.) You can put off having kids for as long as you want, and while there are one or two birth defects specifically associated with older fathers, they're nothing compared to the skyrocketing risk that women have conceiving and giving birth past the age of 35. And to top it all off, you're not physically incapacitated or inconvenienced while your partner or wife is pregnant, and your productivity at work isn't going to suffer because you developed gestational diabetes, or varicose veins, or occasional nausea throughout the day.

Why women are in an impossible situation: By contrast, this is absolutely terrible advice for women. What you see now is the 24-year old bitch at the bar who laughs off your advances and goes back to her cosmopolitan; you're here on Seddit to develop strategies to either stop caring about this, overcome her resistance, or (I would hope) try to figure out how to find someone who'd be better for you in the first place. What you don't see is the 29-year old who just got dumped by her boyfriend after a 6-year relationship, the 31-year old who broke up with hers after he ran her around for several years with the promise of an eventual proposal that never came, the 35-year old in the middle of a divorce, the 32-year old who just got cheated on, or even the 28-year old who has never had sex, dated, or even been kissed, and is now terrified of even trying because she'll be labeled an unsalvageable weirdo. These women exist, and they do not have the luxury, as men do, of being able to shrug off age as a contributing factor to the likelihood of their marrying.

We have not yet escaped biology's constraints, which are an increasingly poor match for what modern society expects of us. Biology tries to force women to find, date, and marry a nice guy as early as possible. Modern society says that early marriage is the fast track to divorce (statistically true) and that having children early is the fast track to a lot of difficulty building a stable financial future (also statistically true). Ever paid attention to what the conventional wisdom is on Reddit concerning marriage and kids before your late twenties at the earliest? "Don't do it." "It's a bad idea." "You can have kids later." "Try to build a nest egg before you have kids." "Can you afford a house?" "People aren't ready to get married straight out of college."

Has anybody actually pointed out that it's women who are disproportionately saddled with the risk of never finding a life partner when both sexes follow this advice?

And, for that matter, the ones who will be saddled with the additional physical risk of later pregnancies?

And why this is actually a wider societal issue: Maria Shriver once made an incredibly painful observation: She would never have been able to establish herself in broadcast journalism, or have any real control over her career's subsequent trajectory, if she'd married and had children early. Getting yourself into a field and becoming respected for what you do requires a tremendous amount of work -- years, in fact -- and if you drop out early for to stay home for your kids, or simply aren't working nose to the grindstone because you need to leave at 5:00 pm on the dot every day to get the kids from day care, you are unlikely to progress all that far in your chosen field. The employment world rewards people who show up all the time and develop extensive connections and experience. It's incredibly difficult to become indispensable to a business or industry when, by definition, you can't possibly be indispensable if you take a leave of absence for several years or won't be there for crunch periods or overtime.

(Now this is not to say that the same problems don't exist for men who decide to stay at home for their children, or men who have to leave at 5:00 pm on the dot to pick up the kids. These problems exist for anyone in that situation. It's just that presently they exist mostly for women.)

It took a while for statisticians to figure out why women were making less than men overall in the same fields even though companies insisted over and over again that they weren't discriminating against them. Well, it turns out the companies were actually telling the truth -- sort of. It's very rare for employers to discriminate purely on the basis of sex, because those who do face giant lawsuits from their respective state's attorney general. What they do discriminate against is people with less experience and fewer work hours, and women are more likely to have both. Women get paid less overall for two reasons -- they're less likely to work in lucrative fields with dangerous and demanding physical requirements (e.g., logging, commercial fishing), and they're more likely to leave work for several years or change jobs due to family commitments. When this happens, they rarely catch up to people who had been employed in the same field all along.

So what I'm trying to say is -- if you reach your thirties or forties and you're hunting for a life partner among twentysomething women, all the more power to you, but remember -- you are asking a young woman to make a choice that you would never have made for yourself when you were her age. Moreover, there are plenty of her thirtysomething colleagues who aren't single just because they ran out of men to chew through, and it's all over an issue that nothing short of a .38 to the forehead is gonna fix. We all get older. One of the two sexes is disproportionately punished for doing so.

So there you have it, Seddit. Lots of women out there lie about their age. Now you know why.

Eloni · 2012-04-28T19:29:57+00:00

Is it just me, or did anyone else get a healthy dose of schadenfreude reading this?

EDIT: Fixed a mistake, courtesy of YesSirMrJohnson.

paulginz · 2012-04-28T19:11:30+00:00

As a 40 y/o female, this doesn't apply to me. I dated when I was younger & always ended up being dumped for another girl. My longest relationship was with a guy who never wanted to work, while I worked full time. We stayed together 5 years, and I couldn't take his verbal & physical abuse any longer. I've been single for the past 14 years since then, but not on purpose. I was really overweight and no one approached me or had any interest. I also never meet anyone new because over the years, all my friends have gone off and been married and I never hear from them because I'm the 'single girl' and just don't fit in. I've since lost all the weight, but still never meet anyone new. I'm NOT set on any 'list' of must haves, I'm extremely open minded, which is what tends to get me in trouble because I'm way more accepting of BS than I should be.

Bhorzo · 2012-04-28T16:29:17+00:00

Article does have a point. Older women want men who are way out of their league.

Of course, a 35-year old could try for a 55-year old, but that's not good enough for them either. Some of these women have been so blinded by entitlement and selfish greed, that they were completely oblivious to the fact that while they were having a good ole time, the rug got pulled out from under them. And while it's sad, it's really hard to have sympathy for these women.

I know a 41 year old female. And to be honest, she's super hot. But no man has ever been "good enough" for her, because you know ... she thinks of herself as an 11/10. She's thought this of herself for the last 25 years. Of the last 20+ relationships she's had (many of which were headed towards marriage/family) she's the one who broke them all off and/or cancelled the engagement. Why? Because she "saw the light" and realized that they still weren't good enough for her.

Where is she now? Struggling through in-vitro and hoping to have a baby that she's planning to raise herself. Ironically - even though she has many willing fathers/husbands lined up at her feet... she'd still rather raise a child on her own then be "forced" to marry a man that's any less than an 11/10.

edit: gramer

2012-04-28T21:40:50+00:00

I guess that's what happens when you mix entitlement, artificially high self-esteem, and a consumer mindset on the dating world.

Jigsus · 2012-04-28T21:34:45+00:00

Man this thread is brutal to women. I cringe and I'm a guy

Madix-3 · 2012-04-28T14:55:40+00:00

That was awkward, article is in the post.

Leelluu · 2012-04-28T15:26:11+00:00

I can say that as a woman in her early thirties, yes, prospects have dried up by my age. I have to choice but to resort to trying to seduce much-younger men because they're the only ones who are still available. Unfortunately, most younger men aren't interested in a woman my age, so essentially, my prospects are zero.

Ilikenicestuff25 · 2012-04-28T18:33:11+00:00

The problem with women is they just don't answer enough emails on dating sites, they don't respond to guys being nice to them. You literally have to JOLT a woman into paying attention to you. Women say they hate negs yet they walk right into them and eat them up like candy.

PUA_Rochester · 2012-04-28T19:06:41+00:00

This is one of the main focal points of Roissy's blog. I'd suggest going there if you're really interested in how women's sexual market value plummets by the time she reaches 30.

I know of a number of successful career women in NYC to whom this happened. They are waking up to the painful reality that they are likely not going to have kids with a "catch", and it's harsh to watch.

I just turned 33. Although I was in relationships most of my 20s, so I was getting sex regularly, I knew how hard it was to meet quality girls, since they were playing the field like crazy. When I did finally find one, I went into beta-provider mode, fell in love, and basically got dumped two years later. I'm pretty certain she cheated on me more than once.

I'm back in the market again, and my things have changed. I can pick up girls between 22-28, no problem. I date multiple women simultaneously. Beyond 28 and they want to settle real quick. Fuck that noize.

When a good one comes around I'll likely settle, but I know that my sexual market value will still stay strong throughout my 30s and can be maintained as long as I practice game regularly (and keep earning well). I.e., I'm in no rush.

glassuser · 2012-04-28T14:27:54+00:00

What article?

2012-04-28T20:07:02+00:00

I think this article is spot on... But I don't think it's not the women's fault.

It's like the article says we said to the young girls: "you can have anything you want. anytime. Fuck biology, you are a godess." ...

It's sad that our society tells women under 30's to put off having children until "they are ready". When they reach 30, for some, it's too late, and for many it's too late very soon.

jk147 · 2012-04-28T21:10:59+00:00

This is very prevelant in NYC, a ton of girls worked hard and partied hard in their 20s and now can't find their ideal mate in their 30s. These women are all successful at what they do and want someone even better as a partner. Unfortunately those guys all want girls in their 20s who are still partying. Ontop of the high female ratio you have a bunch of girls desperate to compete with the next girl... Which is a pretty good situation for me to be in.. Hahah.

refriaire · 2012-04-29T02:11:48+00:00

I am 39, relatively wealthy and very fit. My last relationship was with a 23 year old woman, the one before that with a 24 year old. Women between 20 and 40 come on to me. Life is sweet if you are a successful (relatively) older man who takes care of himself.

OTOH my 39 year old single female friends (successful and fit) have a very hard time finding men who meet their expectations. Most of the younger guys who go out with them view them as "cougars" and do not want anything more than sex.

Guys, don´t marry young. Girls, don´t waste your 20s. Sounds machista but this is the reality of the situation.

Level_75_Zapdos · 2012-04-29T02:13:07+00:00

I won't marry a woman who is over 180lbs. Am I guilty of being too picky?

TofuTofu · 2012-04-28T23:02:12+00:00

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Tyashi · 2012-04-28T23:44:14+00:00

I feel no pity for this self imposed state of unhappiness.

sillymallard · 2012-04-29T19:20:38+00:00

There are a few points that this article doesn't capture well:

Women are choosing this option, and it's not as much of a surprise as the article would like you to think. High quality women will only have babies with high quality men or just not have babies.
The number of high quality women is going up while the number of high quality men is going down.
Men have and always will like younger girls over older girls. Youth is attractive to men.
Women get uglier as they age, and men get more attractive as they age.
Women have been swallowing the feminist mantra that they can act like men and attract them at the same time. It's not true. Being wealthy, educated, confident, and cocky might be good things, but they are far more attractive attributes for a man to possess than a woman. Men don't want to date men. They want to date women. The good qualities of womanliness include sensitivity, courtesy, prudence, and sensuality. Ironically, society has been telling men to adopt these qualities, making women less happy.
A lot of men do want to settle down, and these men are the clear winners in the picture. They have much more choice these days. The story of alphas being the only ones getting laid is a story that has been playing out all throughout history. However, the story of an increasing ratio of women who want to marry compared to men who want to marry is a new one.

TRexRAWR · 2012-04-29T05:23:27+00:00

I am turning 30 in a week, female AND about to break up with my bf. I will admit that this article scared me about being forever alone for a nanosecond, but guys stop trying in long-term relationships, and as a result, get boring. I don't want to marry that. If I can't find a man (or woman) to keep me intellectually (and sexually) stimulated, then I have no problem being a hot cougar with a bottle of wine in one hand and a PS5 controller in the other, getting head from my much younger well-built boy toy. My message to all my fellow females out there: don't be ruled by the BS notion that women can't be older and sexy.

2012-04-28T23:11:55+00:00

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Nexism · 2012-04-29T02:43:08+00:00

There was a very good article on /r/seduction a while back indicating some points that this article also went over.

Men become more attractive as they age (to the other gender).
Women become less attractive as they age.

Title	Why Women lose the dating game (or: AFgirl?)
Author	Madix-3
Upvotes	104
Comments	149
Date	April 28, 2012 2:09 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/sws04/why_women_lose_the_dating_game_or_afgirl/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/why-women-lose-the-dating-game-or-afgirl.1331910 https://theredarchive.com/post/1331910

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