Need a father's advice- Is love worth it?

Reflog1791 · 2024-08-07T22:05:07+00:00

Just buy a house solo and get a prenup first. The prenup says spouse has no rights to house, retirement, or alimony in event of divorce. I would also keep my entire paycheck separate, no large joint purchases (boat, car, vacation home), never tell her how much you make or how much you owe on house or how much you have saved.

Cross your t’s and dot your i’s so that the prenup isn’t signed under duress, doesn’t contain a single thing about child support, and anything else that would get it tossed out.

It’s not cynical it’s smart. One guy here will tell you get a legal separation immediately.

Anyway if you do this right the most she can get is half the money you saved during marriage. That’s not a bad deal especially if she’s paying her fair share around the house. Child support all by itself won’t screw you. Just make sure your spouse works.

The beauty of this is either of you are free to end the marriage at any time for any reason and the paperwork is already half way done.

Sea_Emu_4259 · 2024-08-07T09:07:41+00:00

If I had to do it all over again (I'm in my 40s with kids), here's what I've learned:

As a lawyer said, marriage is a human technology , like cars, glasses, or ovens, but it's a flawed one where 75% of couples want out:

50% end in divorce
Of the other 50%, half(so 25%) stay because of the house/kids --> so that's why 75%

If any car company had even a 1% defect rate, they'd recall all cars. Yet, we accept a 50% failure rate in marriage without much complaint about this broken system. In most Western countries, marriage is one of the contracts where breaking it often benefits one party, typically the woman, with statistics showing that this happens between 70% and 90% of the time.

Avoid housewives. It's often a cover for laziness. Today's housewives probably do a fraction of what our mothers did in the 50s/60s, and after divorce, you get screwed & do 70/80% of everything. It might seem counterintuitive, but women with full-time jobs often end up doing more at home than full-time housewives. I've seen this happen many times. And u get screwed during divorce because of the financial gaps
Prenups: Love won't last. This is well-studied. A lawyer said divorce preparations start before marriage. Compare Elon Musk, who had his wife sign papers to protect his companies & she did not get anything from it expect what he wanted, to Jeff Bezos, who lost billions due to lack of preparation. If you really want to get married, have a prenup or accept the financial consequences( most common way to become poor for older men ). In short, see an attorney before the wedding. Better spent 1000$ before than losing 200k$ in 10 years.
Assess compatibility: Beyond initial attraction, assess long-term compatibility in values, goals, and lifestyle. Discrepancies here can lead to serious issues later on. One useful framework for this is FOCCUS© Pre-Marriage Inventory used by some churches and relationship counselors. I saw a template report & it is reallly good & spot one.
her family: If you want to get a glimpse of your future wife, observe her mother. If her mother is overweight, there's a chance she may also struggle with weight. If her mother dominates the marriage, she might unconsciously model her behavior and try to assert similar dominance in your relationship. Remember, you are essentially marrying into her family. This statement, though blunt, underscores the impact that family dynamics can have on a marriage.
Don't have kids immediately. If, after one year, your gut feeling tells you that you don't want to spend a lifetime with her, leave her childless. I've seen many men ignore their instincts, seek advice from their mom or friends, and then regret it after having kids. After a year, you know about 80% of what you need to know about her. It wont get better en who stay despite these bad feelings are suffering from the "sunk cost fallacy" – the idea that if you've invested time and money into something /someone, you should keep investing rather than cutting your losses and moving on.

Local_Initiative2024 · 2024-08-04T22:33:51+00:00

Participating in the game of reproduction is not to your personal benefit. You’re doing it because your primitive instincts and social programming tell you to do so. My child means the world to me but I also know that I wouldn’t miss her if she’d never existed just as I don’t miss any of the kids I never had.

If you’re on the fence about starting a family and raising kids, maybe you shouldn’t. If you really want them, go ahead! There’s a lot of good about having a family but it also exposes you to pretty serious risks. You’ll most likely need to figure out a purpose in life. For most people raising kids is a huge part of the purpose of their lives.

Serious-Buffalo6776 · 2024-08-04T15:31:56+00:00

I was married once, and I thought I would say I still haven’t really felt “love”.

I did have the urge to protect and take care of my ex, and I certainly love my child, but I never really felt that “magical” feeling of love.

Take that with a grain of salt, though. I might not be normal.

Vivid-Juggernaut2833 · 2024-08-04T11:26:33+00:00

Love & relationships are worth it, but marriage is only useful if you plan to raise kids together.

Put another way, marriage is an institution created primarily to protect children by keeping the man from running off.

The only reasonable purpose for marriage is to start and raise a family.

Beamformer · 2024-08-04T08:32:10+00:00

My son is the thing I did here on the planet that matters. I've got a productive high-end career mostly behind me ... but meh. By the time he was a preteen, She was horrible, abusive to us both, trying to imprint her own childhood abuse onto my kid. I found myself in a situation much worse than a single parent. He refused to speak to her way before she moved out. At one point the stress, lack of sleep, and an added sports head contact and I ended up with post concussion syndrome (i wanted to die for about 10 months to escape it, she never let up). I Kept going for him. Through his teen years she drove us closer together. She made me a better parent because I had to be. He's getting out of school now and has even started his own business for the last few years. She was a mistake, and marriage made it one that was hard to walk away from. She would threaten me with divorce, the house, the kid, and anything else i cared about. She stole his college money and left to pursue the same thing they all do. I was free mentally before 2023 hit, and divorced beforebit ended. I did not give up on women though, I knew it can be great ( I was in a lot of relationships before marriage).

I have a really good woman I've been serious with for a year. She was there for me through a lot of the divorce, there in ways my ex never was. It's been great, we are not getting married, and have no plans on co-occupancy. I would not trade the last year for any other in my life.

I have lots of good distant memories of us doing fun family things and my son and I also have lots of bad memories of her horrible behavior, which worsened every year. Even if they don't have cluster B problems, It seems you can't trust women today to stay in the marriage anymore. Post divorce, a lot of my friends have given up out of frustration, but they don't seem happy alone. Likewise, I also know a lot of married people that dont seem to really like each other by the time the kids ship off. If I had to do it again, I would not get married (kid or no kid). I think marriage is bad for relationships, and if/when they turn bad you are locked in.

Puzzleheaded_Monk_39 · 2024-08-04T03:55:46+00:00

It’s a different era. In the old days men work and women were homemakers and keeping up with the jones was just comparing cars and bbq equipment and going to their house parties to watch slide shows of their vacations. Now women want it all and have social media telling them how things should be which just puts a ton of risk on high value guys. I go out to eat and I see all these women hustling at dead end jobs and I know they would love to end up with me financially. I spoil them a little and next thing you know nothing is good enough. A small taste of dual income will give them that freedom to want whatever media is jamming down their throat. Vacations won’t be a want they will be a need. If I could do it again I would find a surrogate to have a kid with that would be 100% mine and have all the legal documents to prove it. Then just date long term and keep finances clearly separated.

deuceandahalf17 · 2024-08-04T03:10:04+00:00

I’m recently divorced (May 2024) and would have been with my ex-wife 14 years this month total and 12 years married.

Absolutely I would marry her again. Marriage is a gift! But it’s also a choice. Love is a choice. Eventually, she didn’t choose me, and that’s out of my hands.

They always say, “when you know, you know.” If you meet the right girl, you’ll know it. Don’t overthink things. You’ll know it when you see it.

Acceptable_Piano4809 · 2024-08-04T02:12:07+00:00

My STBX has absolutely nothing to lose in the divorce, as if I was awarded everything she’s already won…. She wants “as much as she can get” even though she cheated and had a kid w her AP. I can’t even contact her unless it’s through lawyers. She never has to see me so she doesn’t feel any guilt for being totally unfair. She came into the marriage with nothing, she had an amazing life during the marriage and chose not to work or have children. Now I’m just a lawsuit to her where if she gets $100 she wins, but she’s going for much much more. All because I was stupid enough to marry her. She has never made more than $20k/year in her life and never saved anything, and now she wants me to buy her and her AP a house (w the money she’s asking from me), 6 year marriage, no shared finances and me obviously paying for everything including her spending money (yes I know, I’m a complete idiot).

henrysmyagent · 2024-08-04T01:51:30+00:00

I know for a fact there is a large pool of women who are loyal, loving partners who will stay with you until death do you part.

They are living in retirement communities and 55+ mobile home parks and condominiums.

Your generation's women make good girlfriends and terrible wives. They see marriage as a relationship of convenience and men as interchangeable, either of which to be quickly disposed of if a better offer comes along.

Stay single. Girlfriends are great and wives are terrible. The marriage risk to reward ratio is totally in women's favor.

Would you sign a contract where the other party is punished with cash, prizes, and your future earnings for violating the contract? Hell no!

I cannot in good conscience recommend you ever get married.

I do recommend marriage to every man I hate.

TheNattyJew · 2024-08-04T00:43:47+00:00

I have been married for 36 years. We are very happy and I'm glad I am with her. But I would never get married again in a million years. Not because of anything wrong with my wife, but because the risks are just too damn high. It's not worth it for men to get married. All risk, no extra reward

TenuousOgre · 2024-08-04T00:18:24+00:00

Never been divorced, I’m 58, married 36 years to a woman who has been both treasure and at times frustration. But things were very different when I married. She hadn’t been around. Neither had I. Today that’s almost impossible to find.

If I were in your shoes, no marriage. Date for fun, maybe even have a girlfriend from time to time but not living together. If you want unconditional love get a good dog.

Betteroffalone1111 · 2024-08-03T23:09:34+00:00

Men and women love differently, women love you for what you can provide and it looks like you check off all the list on what modern women today want. Falling in love can be a dangerous thing because pussy is a powerful drug. Love can make you do stupid things so tread lightly my friend.

47omek · 2024-08-03T22:20:56+00:00

I've been married/divorced 3 times. Knowing what I know now, there is zero chance I would ever get married given the current laws and norms of female entitlement. I would, however, look into surrogacy to have my own children that can't be taken away by a vengeful ex with the government as her muscle. My children are awesome and give me more than enough reason to live and work to be my best. I only wish I didn't have to share them 50% and pay someone else $21k per year so that she can have a nicer house and car than I do. Surrogacy would get you the kids (again, being a dad is AWESOME) without the 18 year child support sentence and split custody.

CulturedGentleman921 · 2024-08-03T22:00:36+00:00

I don't regret getting married. I've been married 21 years 3 kids. I got married late. I was 35 when I got married and she was 27.

It's perfectly OK to not want to get married.

What you need to do, though, is have a support group of friends that will help you through your loneliness. If it's a mixed group of men and women, that's the best thing. But usually for a guy, it'll be just fellow men. You construct this group by engaging in hobbies and through volunteering for organizations that help people directly like habitat for humanity, a soup kitchen, children's hospital ward, elder care facility, etc.

IF you really want sexual release with a flesh and blood woman without the commitment, then you either have to engage in hookup culture or use escorts. The best looking escorts are usually obtained by being introduced by another of their clients and they can be pretty expensive depending upon how good the escort looks, what you want, and the time you spend with them. The only danger you have with them is catching feelings for them if you're not experienced in that life. The really good ones will give you the full boyfriend experience which is nice but again you have to not catch feelings for them or you'll be miserable and they'll dump you as a client. Otherwise, just use porn, but you can get addicted to that shit and it could warp your perceptions.

If you do somehow find a woman who's "marriage material", you'll definitely want a prenuptial agreement.

You have health insurance.

You have car insurance.

You have home insurance.

You have life insurance.

A prenup is marriage insurance.

You never want to have to use your insurance. It means you've had a car accident, or caught a disease, or a tree fell on your house, or, in the case of life insurance, you've died.

A prenup guarantees an equitable split of assets in the case of a conventional divorce. It can also invoke a penalty against you or your wife in the case of infidelity.

Ultimately it allows you to go your separate ways without having lawyers and a judge, who got elected because he has a nice smile and a firm handshake, determine how broke you're going to be.

You can be perfectly happy without getting married if you don't care about having children and you have a support system of friends and family around you.

If you have a remote job and you're single, you might want to travel around the world, doing your job online from exotic locations. Your 150K a year will allow you to live at a much higher standard of living in Southeast Asia, South America, or Eastern Europe.

bkdad75 · 2024-08-03T21:09:10+00:00

I'm in the middle of a divorce that broke my heart and will cost me millions. The lesson I'm taking isn't that I was wrong to marry. We don't live forever. There are only so many tall rides in this amusement park. Marriage with children holds unique and massive opportunities for love and growth. Dying an immature stunted asshole with a huge pile of cash you'll pass on to nobody isn't something I'd call a win.

My advice would be to continually act (financially) as though it was going to end. Have a marriage which, were it to end, the outcome would seem fair to you. That's something you'll have to continually evaluate as the marriage goes. For roughly equal earners that will often just happen. For everyone else, it's prenups and trusts, and whatever stress that places on the relationship. I didn't have that stuff, I tolerated a wildly unfair marriage for a very long time, and now I will have a wildly unfair divorce. Remember, though, that a truly dedicated SAHM makes a very large economic contribution. She probably doesn't deserve half if your career goes wild and you become rich. She deserves a good healthy slice though.

In hindsight, I would still have married. Maybe more carefully, both in my choice of partner and legally, but I am a better person in so many ways due to this experience. I prefer even the shitshow my marriage ended up being to a life without a committed partner and children.

techrmd3 · 2024-08-03T20:51:18+00:00

you are right to approach marriage with hesitancy, these days there is so many things that argue against getting married (as a young man) it makes sense NOT to marry

This would be my advice to a young man looking at options for life and saying YES/NO to marriage

The ONLY reason to be married in the west is to have kids under the auspices of Marriage (legal partnership)

This is the ONLY reason you should want to marry.

Want a friend? - get a dog
Want a companion? - get a roommate
Want someone by your deathbed? - get a nurse
Want someone to touch your Manly Part? - well you get the point

In all cases there are vanishingly few things we need to get married for.

As a follow up I would also say that YOU likely should be older before you consider having kids. You should have a good career, steady income, a home, and all the things that would maximize the chances your kids will be born into a good life. A good age range to consider is 32 to say 38+.

And frankly I would also work on legal arrangements to protect assets and research places in the world outside of the West to maximize your chances of asset protection post the probable divorce.

georeddit2018 · 2024-08-03T20:33:49+00:00

It's probably hard to instill "no marriage" concept into we young guys because we got too much testorone and we think with our dicks.

The only way to really understand the message of no cohabitation ot marriage is for young guys to see people who have been destroyed by marriage or family law, or by actually getting married and experiencing what marriage is .

Lopsided_Actuary4790 · 2024-08-03T19:38:32+00:00

Scanning the advice and insights here, I want to offer a different perspective. Marriage is still the number 1 way to make money exponentially. Despite all of the horror stories and my own divorce.

There are things to consider like prenups, and other financial instruments to protect both you and your potential partner.

One of the most important things to get clear on is:

Who you really are
What you really want
What you need in a partnership

The same or worse statistics exist for business partnerships, yet I would give the same advice to someone starting a promising business.

Try out this podcast episode. Especially the final 30 minutes where they address your question head on: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-investing-expert-were-raising-the-most/id1291423644?i=1000661869055

MartyMcFly7 · 2024-08-03T19:16:19+00:00

Love, yes! Marriage, no.

HereinPA1 · 2024-08-03T18:23:01+00:00

I would say that love is worth it, but I’ve unfortunately discovered that marriage is not worth it. If you want to have kids, it’s best to have a two parent household and that can still happen without a marriage license.

There is no “one” so it’s up to you to consciously decide if a woman you’re with is worth the chance you’re taking to raise that family together.

Love is the intangible connection between two people, all a marriage does is connect your finances together in a tangible way. Those same finances can be lost to the person you loved the most simply because they wanted to end it.

Kids will always be yours, but your retirement savings can be somebody else’s if you marry them. As the other commenter said, be aware of common law states and be with someone for the relationship, not the marriage certificate. That piece of paper won’t define your commitment to one another, your love for one another will.

ColdEstablishment172 · 2024-08-03T17:15:45+00:00

I always knew since I was 18 years old that marriage is not worth it for a man. Having gone through a separation recently from a 14-year commitment, I can say that this philosophy has absolutely saved me. She would have taken half of my empire! But don't make the mistake and think that just because you don't marry a person means you're safe. Some states have a common law clause stating that if you live with a person for a certain amount of time, you are pretty much considered married. So do your research. And if you absolutely must marry then at least try to do a good solid prenup. Yet even that fails sometimes.

I have nothing against Love. I think it's worth experiencing. You would be surprised how many people never get to experience true love at all in their lives and that is a tragedy. I don't believe that true love lasts forever. I believe that it could"potentially" last forever or last a long time, but I also believe that spontaneous moments of love can be true as well. Love truly does make the world go round. I would say that love is one of the highlights in life and you would be a fool if you closed yourself off to it. We only have one Life. Just know that nothing is forever so enjoy it while you have it.

chase_the_wolf · 2024-08-03T16:42:28+00:00

I'm not saying this to blow smoke up your ass but what you must come to grips with is...

You have a giant target on your back.

You, as a man, can have kids at anytime.

Your single most valuable asset is time.

They may not be knocking down your door now but should you continue down your path...they will. Be as picky as you want. You must be. You have to be. Again...you have plenty of time.

Check out Michael Sartain and Rollo Tomassi.

Title	Need a father's advice- Is love worth it?
Author	cdisco_havoc
Upvotes	9
Comments	25
Date	August 3, 2024 4:18 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/Divorce_Men
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/Divorce_Men/comments/1ej77jp/need_a_fathers_advice_is_love_worth_it/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/Divorce_Men/need-a-fathers-advice-is-love-worth-it.1526217 https://theredarchive.com/post/1526217

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