The lack of shame is causing a destruction of the traditional dating structure and people have no idea how to move forward

Bekiala · 2025-01-13T19:55:08+00:00

Heya OP, could you describe specifically how your shame or lack-there-of has improved or worsened your dating?

Any-Remove-4032 · 2025-01-13T23:35:47+00:00

I believe in staying in your lane.

If you don't want to be promiscuous, don't be promiscuous. If you don't want to be with someone who was promiscuous, don't be with someone who was promiscuous.

What others do has zero effect on me. I work. My wife works. I have my past. She has hers. It literally doesn't matter. We have a home. We have enough to eat. We are good.

Shaming others for living their life is insanely obsessive, imo. Society isn't going to collapse. The government isn't going away because "people are having affairs". If being cheated on is something you absolutely could not bear, the solution is, either find someone you can trust and if you can't, then you couldn't. Its as simple as that.

Its not about "find a partner who wouldnt cheat on you", its "find the partner who would cheat with you". I've never felt threatened or insecure about my marriage cause the chemistry is so on point, it'd be the other guys who'd have to worry about me. Call me arrogant, idfk lol but we married now so thats that. She was my first gf and we clicked. No need to "bring back shaming" like we some medieval Catholic village 😂 Just find what works for you and let others enjoy their youth and their life. If that has consequences, then that's their cross to bear. Quit obsessing 🤣

AntonioSLodico · 2025-01-14T00:18:24+00:00

The root of the issues you described isn't a lack of shame, it's a lack of accountability, driven by a lack of social cohesion. When social networks, institutions, and communities are less fluid, there are more established norms that are more enforced.

When a cheater is known to a community and they can't just jump to a community that doesn't know, the reprocussions for cheating are greater and better known. This is a big pard of why mobility is often a greater predictor of crime than poverty.

PracticalControl2179 · 2025-01-13T20:18:02+00:00

Infidelity is already extremely looked down upon. Some people have open relationships, but a) it still has stigma and b) it is more accepted because it’s presumed that everyone involved consents to the dynamic.

Extreme promiscuity is also looked down upon. Women face more of a stigma than men, as men who sleep around are seen as Casanova players while women who sleep around are called “whores and sluts”. The only reason why it’s less looked down upon than cheating is that it’s under the presumption that everyone consents to the casual sex dynamic and isn’t being manipulated or lied to. Also men who sleep around are generally called “fuckboys” by women.

leosandlattes · 2025-01-13T18:46:46+00:00

Here is the thing that I have noticed with many men: they want an inhibited gf/wife who feels sexual shame, but then completely removes it for him. He wants her to be lustful and carnal with him. But the thing with sexual shame is that it doesn't go away even if you are now married or in an LTR. People - even men - do not suddenly become uninhibited and shameless if they have felt shame their whole life. So you will have to be careful about how much shame you advocate for - puritanical attitudes regarding sex also means that people will not want to explore their sexuality even within committed relationships.

Also, I don't know what world you exist in where sluts are not shamed or used as an insult toward women who do casual sex, or where cheaters are not ostracized by their social groups.

Odd-Fun-9557 · 2025-01-13T20:33:07+00:00

Why does promiscuity have to be a shameful thing ? Why does sex and enjoying sex have to be a shameful thing ?

Sharp_Engineering379 · 2025-01-13T18:45:21+00:00

Sour grapes are still sour, even when presented as moral higher ground.

Ideally most people would prefer a monogamous commitment, most with children and family at the center, but via free will, not oppression.

Not everyone subscribes to religious or cultural inhibitions, and not everyone inside the social safety of religion is moral.

Outside_Memory5703 · 2025-01-13T19:14:38+00:00

Nope. It’s lack of appeal

People are mostly well behaved, and if they want to act stupid, they are usually penalized for it by being rejected

Dating is voluntary. That is the point that obliterates all else. If you’re not desirable, you won’t be desired

And I have no desire to make dating/relationships coerced or mandatory

TopShelfSnipes · 2025-01-13T20:45:58+00:00

Shame is only useful as a deterrent for things that are truly bad.

Shame for cheating or abuse is fine. If you're tempted to cheat, break up first. Now it's not cheating. Physical abuse is a literal crime. Emotional abuse is a legal grey area but certain actions can cross the line into crimes.

Shame for promiscuity is stupid. I don't understand why men who are unsatisfied with women's (lack of) willingness to sleep with him want to make women less promiscuous. If he's interested in casual sex, that will only decrease the likelihood he meets someone who is also interested in meeting that need. If he's interested in a relationship, that will only decrease the likelihood they will have an uninhibited sex life that's fulfilling and fun. If he's doomed to be miserable and alone either way, then none of this actively helps him.

Cheating and abuse are harmful. There is a victim.

Promiscuity is not harmful. There is no victim. And no, "society" is not a victim.

The "you deserve the best you think you deserve" mindset stems from the logical fact that in an era where men and women have the freedom to choose their partners outside of constructs like arranged marriage and women not being allowed to own property, that anyone who ends up in a relationship either ends up in the relationship they will put up with, or ends up alone. If you're unhappy, express displeasure with te goal of seeking corrective action, and if that fails...leave. If you're happy, stay. It's that simple. Within that framework, anyone who is in an unhappy relationship is in it because they tolerate it. If they didn't, they would up and leave.

EssentialPurity · 2025-01-13T21:14:37+00:00

People aren't lacking shame. Much to the contrary, they have become immune to it due to how overused it is.

The funny thing about shame is that it is both a deterrent and a stimulant for undesirable behaviours. It represses misbehaviour only up to a certain point, which is when one decides to take a stand for themselves against what they perceive as unfair and arbitrary repression. From this point, people will use shame as a reverse moral compass, as an active attempt of desensitizing themselves to shame. This is how sexual ethics have developed since Cold War Era, although this is not by any means a recent phenomenon.

I mean, I am yet to ever see a promiscuous woman become any less promiscuous when hit with "Slut Shaming". She may get upset but she will cry all her way into someone's bed and carry on as usual.

The same goes to LGBTs. The shame and bigotry only keeps them in the closet for so long, but after they get out, the genie ain't gonna go back in the lamp anytime soon.

Shame by itself hardly works. The best way to implement what people seem to think it is for, is by legitimizing, systemizing and institutionalizing Cancel Culture; which is how things worked back in the day. Nobody cares if granny thinks they are a naughty kid, but getting socially boycotted and lynched due to being branded a public enemy is very hard to ignore.

This is, of course, a double-edge, because there is no way such order won't be used against only specific behaviours.

ATasteofTx214 · 2025-01-14T01:58:34+00:00

Shame never deterred behavior; it just victimized the outliers and covered up the misdeeds of the most socially savvy n any situation. People have always had premarital sex; they just had shotgun weddings and backroom abortions. Women always dated bad boys, they just found a beta buxx at 17 -21 instead of 35 when/if they got caught or got pregnant. Men have always pursued whores; pre-internet they were just shamed to be at the mercy of men and left on "that side of town" to be used at mens leisure while guys pretended with the good girl wives and girlfriends.

Social media has given us way too much information about each others thought processes and motivations. Another person's opinion of u really isn't your business and now that we're constantly bombarded with everyone's opinion about every human interaction, we are all short circuiting.

toasterchild · 2025-01-13T20:04:27+00:00

Extreme promiscuity and infidelity have happened throughout time, it's just not hidden as much anymore. Abuse used to be just as common if not more common, it was leaving the abuser which was looked down upon more. Abusers and manipulators have always twisted words and the social structure to justify them getting what they want. It is in a slightly different package now but at least we are openly allowed to point out the red flags and shitty behaviors to look out for now.

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AlmostKindaGreat · 2025-01-13T21:04:32+00:00

What should people have shame about, exactly? Is it inherently bad to pursue satisfaction of "our most lustful and carnal desires"?

I'm asking how you would say lust and sexual desires are bad general sense that would apply to a pluralistic society. For example, religious rules only apply to adherents of that religion, so we can't expect everyone in society to follow them. You haven't mentioned religion so I don't know if you would come at it from that angle but that's the most common reason I know of to try to justify shaming people for lust.

I also don't think we should conflate lying, cheating, and abuse with the satisfaction of lust without any of these involved. There is more consensus that these things are ethically wrong.

I'm just pushing back that the idea of shaming people for feeling lust and sexual desire and seeking to satisfy those desires with other consenting people. We tried it with religion. We do it by saying men are toxic for feeling sexual desire and expressing it. We do it with slut shaming women for the same thing. I see those all as bad things and I don't believe we need any more of it.

Ok-Dust-4156 · 2025-01-14T10:43:08+00:00

There's no such thing as "traditional dating structure" because dating as a thing exist for around 100 years.

Churchneanderthal · 2025-01-14T14:59:15+00:00

I would almost disagree with this because cheaters, liars and scumbag have existed for millions of years and these people truly have no shame. Like literally shaming doesn't work on them. But our culture is openly encouraging the behavior nowadays and it's a problem.

qtiphead_ · 2025-01-15T15:00:50+00:00

I agree with this with the caveat that the shame should be internally sourced, not externally sourced. You can’t necessarily rely on your peers and your family/community to model what is and isn’t shameful or even to be respectable themselves, so ideally the onus should be on oneself to be honest about their actions and feel shame when it’s due.

I’d rather self-reflect and feel shame for things that go against my values than have shame projected onto me by others that I don’t agree with, but then again I guess this individualistic view is kind of what got us into this situation.

I don’t know, the topic of shame is a sore spot for me because it’s a slippery slope either way and can be hard to balance.

Artistic_Speech_1965 · 2025-01-17T11:41:13+00:00

Thank you, someone has to say that. I hope there will be more people like you

Title	The lack of shame is causing a destruction of the traditional dating structure and people have no idea how to move forward
Author	Messymarv2315
Upvotes	17
Comments	101
Date	January 13, 2025 1:22 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1i02jep/the_lack_of_shame_is_causing_a_destruction_of_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-lack-of-shame-is-causing-a-destruction-of-the.1541426 https://theredarchive.com/post/1541426

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