To The Guys Who Don’t Kiss Or Flirt On Dates….

DisplayAcrobatic · 2025-10-22T14:02:04+00:00

It’s basically what they call “ the point of no return”

If you get to that point and don’t close, a girl will start to come up with excuses to not see you again.

So if the sexual tension is there and all you do is make out with her instead of closing, she’ll disqualify you.

And you can show and gauge interest without kissing. Through kino and compliance. And women send hints when they want to go back to your place.” Do you live alone”, “ What do you have planned after”, “ Do you WFH/ when do you start work”.

It’s all preference at the end of the day, but generally i say if you’re not going to ask her back to your place, you have to kiss her.

Vinniikii · 2025-10-22T13:52:55+00:00

Pickup artists are selling an illusion, you have some intelligence and saw through the lies.

To clumsy, socially blind, pickup artist customers, this is good advice. They don’t know how to flirt or connect, it’s good to tell them to wait.

Seduction masters know the liminal nature of communication, connection. They can feel the tension created by attraction and don’t need to “flirt” by saying crass sexual things or other fumbling clumsiness.

shittybillz · 2025-10-22T14:02:04+00:00

Different strokes I guess. On the other hand I’ve never taken a woman home where I hadn’t at least held her hand, held her, kissed her, etc.

I’ve slept with around 80 women (I’m 34). My tried and true method is flirting, waiting for them to invade your personal space or follow you around the venue, get closer, kiss, hold hands, arm around her, then invite her back.

When I get those queues I estimate a 95% success rate on bringing her home.

If you feel more comfortable with an alternative method than what you’re reading, do that.

Velora56 · 2025-10-22T16:25:36+00:00

I never kiss on the first date. Maybe by the second or third date I will hazard a kiss. Everybody flirts to some degree or other, The question is whether it is overt or little teases.

ThatDarnSmell · 2025-10-22T17:05:28+00:00

Most of those PUA guys are shills who are just e-marketers, not guys who are skilled with dating.

Rhino3750ss · 2025-10-22T14:58:52+00:00

It all boils down to what women consider the most attractive trait, which is preselection.

If a woman is on a date with a man, if he is first to flirt or initiate a kiss, she can easily mistake it as "try hard" energy or urgency, and she feels like the man is not preselected.

If a guy can get through the whole date without kissing or flirting and maintains neutrality, the girl's ego assumes the only way he isn't acting more urgent is if he has options of equal or higher quality, and her natural safety mechanisms are satisfied. This is why the guys that put the least effort do the most pulling. Often a girl will go home with a guy for sex just off of regular conversation.

Ultimately flirting is a female action. Think of overt displays of patience which demonstrate preselection as the male version of flirting.

Women like cavemen. You are literally better off eating and grunting one word responses on the date than exerting effort to form a connection. Keep in mind just for the fact she showed up to the date, she is already physically attracted to you, all you have to do is not turn her off...be patient and exist as is.

Velora56 · 2025-10-22T18:15:20+00:00

Gentlemen

Here's the deal, when you go on a first date, as a general rule, (Barring a remarkable performance on your part.) she will know in the first 5 minutes if she is going to sleep with you. Yes I know it's grossly unfair, but that's how it is.

On a side note, a woman's eyes will dilate if she finds an interest in you. Doesn't necessarily mean sexual just an interest. This is an involuntary reaction that a person has no control over.

Certain_Process_7657 · 2025-10-22T14:17:47+00:00

Awful advice. I can count on one hand how many women agreed to come back to my place but were not ok with kissing in public. It's pretty ironic and doesn't make any sense. Yes it does happen but it's extremely rare.

devOpsBop · 2025-10-23T04:31:25+00:00

Every woman I slept with on the first date ended up having some kind of grand emotional instability. I'll still go for it if she's down, but she will disqualify herself for anything serious, just due to my past experiences.

Velora56 · 2025-10-22T19:10:48+00:00

I do have to take issue with the thought that she will makes the assumption that you are not interested in her sexually without some form of kissing, touching etc.

Please understand, that I am looking at this from the point of view of one or both of you looking to establish a long-term relationship.

If on the other hand the two of you are looking for a quick roll in the hay, then yes touching, kissing, flirting etc is the way to go.

That being said, a true gentleman will never push the boundaries on the opening date. It is a sign of respect that you are willing to take things slowly and get to know the person before there is a series of flirtatious behavior on one or both of you.

If she is clearly accepting that there will be a second date, you know she has an interest. Too many times women get pawed by over anxious guys. This tends to make them rather gun shy.

There are enough creeps out there that finding a true gentleman might be a rarity for her. I guarantee you that being a gentleman throughout the first few dates will pay off in the long run.

SecretComments · 2025-10-22T20:56:38+00:00

I used to think this way too. "Oh if I like her even a little I better do SOMETHING." Go for the kiss even when it doesn't feel right or natural. Try too hard to find excuses or monents to touch her on a date. Try to oull girls back to my place even if there's not much of a vibe.

This is an easy rabbit hole to go down, but it's contextual too. You meet a girl at a bar and she leaves the bar with you, even just to go to another bar? You make out in the car. You just do. She already wanted to and expects it and you seem like a coward if you don't try.

Girls want you to try BUT girls want it to feel natural and built up. A lot of first dates might be in the daytime, figuring out vibes and basic compatibility, and sometimes nothing SHOULD happen. Really consider that. It's WAY better to do absolutely nothing but light flirting on a first date than it is to awkwardly try for a first kiss at the end and either get rejected or make the girl feel like there wasn't a spark after that. If you're so chill and unbothered that you don't NEED to touch her, to kiss her. To push for anything? Second date much more likely. And she will yearn for you in the interim. Just try not to come off like you're scared to go for it, like, virginal lol. Be chill, get to know her, watch for major signs. If she wants to dip alone say "this was fun" and then text her in a few days to make another date.

I used to try to do stuff on the first date as a rule every time. Thought it was required for a second date. It's actually probably more often the opposite. Learn from my mistakes boys.

Ms_Darkside · 2025-10-26T14:04:52+00:00

As a women I personally disagree with this move. If there to vibe that makes me think your physically or romantically into before we get to your house. It’s could be read as platonic and 1 of to 2 can happen. A) you make move on her at your house and she goes along if fear of ( I’m at his place and how will he react if I refuse) = awkward 1 sided sex B) get friend zoned in your own home Be clear from the jump

JackSquirts · 2025-10-22T14:26:14+00:00

The guy's an idiot or has so much else going on that he can afford to do that shit. Me, I'm naturally a flirt, so I flirt my dick off which builds attraction. It'd be great if I was good looking enough with abs and whatever else that I could just pull a girl back to my place without flirting, but I don't have those things, so I have to do things that otherwise make me more attractive to her.

glintingUZI · 2025-10-22T13:47:41+00:00

If youre good looking, you dont have to do much seducing. Like just if you were with a beautiful, she doesn't have to try. She ll be touchy. Let you touch, even if you dont. She make you touch her, ? You can just feel it in her body language.

miyass_miyass · 2025-10-22T17:06:39+00:00

making a point of not kissing or flirting is silly but you definitely don’t have to look for signs she likes you or kiss her before inviting her over

Nabbzi · 2025-10-22T17:41:12+00:00

Flirt : Yes
Kiss: Not necessary.

TripleDigitNomad · 2025-10-22T18:54:26+00:00

I rarely kiss women on dates until they're back at mine, but I will usually flirt with them in some way. I don't do as much kino as most guys would, but I do do something that separates the interaction from a friendly one. Whether it's verbal flirting or light kino.

But yeah, I save most of the escalation for when she's back at my place. I find it leads to better outcomes.

Dandys3107 · 2025-10-22T19:30:01+00:00

You can build the sexual tension just by responding accordingly to woman's body language and other subtle signs and carry the interaction smoothly to the desired destination. The thing is, most guys that are very confused about and just generally new to the seduction world want something like rigid 25-points plan that will always work like in school exams, which just can't exist in real world circumstances. You need to build up solid mindset that will always hold your frame, to embrace and process emotions, pay attention to and intepret subtleties, attain proper social and interpersonal skills, train your body to exert congruent body language. These just cannot be taught effectively other than by getting lots of experience and adjusting your game. When she agreed to meet with you within something more than cold stranger context, having sex is already on the board, but there are also lots of barriers to melt until her inner state will be set for getting intimate with you. Flirting and kissing is still pretty far away from getting naked with you in some private space.

ImpossibleWaiting · 2025-10-22T22:07:22+00:00

Some girls just don't want to be kissed in public. The way you know is you either had some near sexual talks before or during the date OR she's going home with you, or both. You might not be having sex that day, but kissing and heavily petting all over her body is practically the same thing, just the tamer version of it. You know you'll get there, but you take it step by step and allow each other to bask in the sexual energy exchange. That's for shy girls. If the girl's not shy you'll know. She'll touch you in a way that makes it clear she's ready for sex.

Not flirting though? That seems antithetical to romance and seduction. Teasing and telling her what you'll do to her, how you'll do it and why you want her in particular is all parts of building on that sexual anticipation. I think it's key to actually turning her on.

Dangerous_Item_6879 · 2025-10-22T23:12:39+00:00

The answer is it depends. The more women you date the better you will become at sensing what they want and what they are comfortable with.

Some are very regimented in their ways. And others are free birds who will make out with you or sleep with you on the first date.

We need to have general guidelines and strategies but sometimes you need to throw the playbook in the garbage and go no huddle and call audibles all night long.

eeeest- · 2025-10-23T08:32:06+00:00

I do flirt and sexualize topics we talk about, But the kissing part I keep for later.

It makes it easier to find a valid reason for going back to your place without making a woman feel like something has to happen if she agrees.

Also it‘s a great way to escalate further.

drakos94 · 2025-10-23T09:45:52+00:00

if you kiss on the first date she gets leverage and you loose mystery points, its typical and what 99% of the dudes she liked already did before you. If you escalate only when shes at your home she never gets leverage against you and you can also do whatever you want with her.

ModeoneUk · 2025-10-23T19:34:10+00:00

That's a death sentence what dating coach says that?! I hope he's not charging money.

What girl is going to go back your place if there's no flirting or sexual.tension?

mrxsol0dolo · 2025-10-24T11:38:57+00:00

Let's clear something up. If a girl is on a date with you and it's going well, and she isolates with you, then you can try to give her a kiss. Doesn't mean you need to slobber all over her and go crazy.

A lot of guys are dating girls who are using dating apps these days. These are girls looking for "Long-term relationships" and/or "Life partners." The guys dating them aren't necessarily. These are the girls who are dating multiple guys, trying on suitors like shoes. They are the ones who will shut you down and/or ghost you if you make a move too soon, making you think you did something wrong by shooting your shot. (There are obvious exceptions to this notion.)

Just do you, guys. If you got a girl on a date, a kiss isn't a big deal. But realize that if you're using apps, then some of these girls are dating a bunch of dudes and they don't want to get intimate immediately for various reasons. You can always ask a girl to come over for a movie, but it could be risky depending on what she's looking for...

StepGeneral3597 · 2025-10-26T03:10:14+00:00

Kissing releases sexual tension, it takes away the mystery of whether you like them or not, it can get boring.

I still do it, but don’t do it TOO much when you get more advanced.

Girls will go crazy when you hold back, they’re not used to it.

becomesharp · 2025-10-22T14:50:12+00:00

This MIGHT work for him, but even if it does, what works for advanced guys is VERY different from what beginners or intermediate guys should do. It's like jordan just saying "dude, just dunk from the free throw line, problem solved"

thai-rhone · 2025-10-22T15:57:33+00:00

I don't kiss until the apartment. It's just not as classy to be making out with a girl in the bar I feel. I create tension through conversation, I touch her hands and our legs touch if we're close. Invite her back and the pretty much full gear after that

DaRockLobster · 2025-10-22T20:16:53+00:00

Uhh, the advice sounds unethical tbh.

When I have sex with a girl, it is important to me that I know she is making an informed decision that she thinks is best for herself.

Making out in public is a very clear message preceding sex as it is generally the most one can sexually escalate while still remaining within generally accepted social norms. If a girl is willing to go somewhere where social norms no longer become a limiting factor when you have already reached the point where these norms are completely inhibiting further escalation, it is pretty unambiguous that she is interested in escalating further.

It feels like skipping the kissing step is actively trying to abuse ambiguity in the escalation process in hopes that you can get the girl to have sex with you when, in a situation where she had more time or less pressure to decide, she wouldn't otherwise. This represents manipulative scumbag behavior, and I can assure you intelligent confident woman will see through such manipulations.

Title	To The Guys Who Don’t Kiss Or Flirt On Dates….
Author	United-Implement-382
Upvotes	225
Comments	65
Date	October 22, 2025 1:39 PM UTC (8 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/1od8ke3/to_the_guys_who_dont_kiss_or_flirt_on_dates/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/to-the-guys-who-dont-kiss-or-flirt-on-dates.1564742 https://theredarchive.com/post/1564742

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