Trans-women are TRANS-women, not women. And vise versa.

wtknight · 2026-02-23T01:10:42+00:00

Removed for violating Reddit ToS for promoting hate based upon identity

ComfortableJeans · 2026-02-22T21:01:06+00:00

I feel as though this would only be controversial to very vocal, extreme minority groups online.

I've had quite a few conversations around this stuff, with relatively young, late 20s early 30s people, both men and women, who were normally quite left leaning, who've basically said the same thing.

I've only met two people in my whole life who were very "There's no difference between trans women and women!" types, and they were both terminally online, hard for anyone to get along with, wildly unstable with their emotions and feverishly confrontational about everything.

My most memorable interaction with one of them involved them loudly talking, in public, at me about how "STDs came around because white people kept raping animals." As though they wanted everyone to hear them. They were a family member of a girl I was dating. Even my partner apologized for them afterward.

I've even known a few transgender people who've given the opinion of "Yeah, you know, it just is what it is, and people should do what they want".

This could be a shitty thing to say, and it's just my experience, but the MtF tend to be super chill. I had one reach out to me a while back thanking me for being their friend and how I'd helped them come back from planning to off themselves, but the FtM have always been super aggressive and shitty toward me, and I don't quite know why. I don't know if it's overcompensation, but I'd always gotten the feeling that I was the enemy due to what I am. Which is just a 6'3, normal, straight, dorky white guy. Like being too status quo made me contemptible off the bat.

But again, it's not like I'm meeting thousands of them.

I know that not everyone has the live and let live attitude, but the people who I've liked and fallen in love with have. I don't think I'd like to be around people who don't share that more laid back view.

So long as you're not hurting anyone, or forcing anyone to do anything, more power to you. And the goverment certainly shouldn't force themselves as the middleman between you and your private doctor in matters of your health.

Gravel_Roads · 2026-02-22T20:55:18+00:00

When it comes to social identification, it's all basically just personal opinion.

This post is just you saying "I don't consider trans women and cis women to be the same thing."

Which you're allowed to feel, because no one can police what you do with your own brain.

However, if someone thinks trans women and cis women belong in some of the same categories, there is also nothing you can do to take that opinion away from them.

The closest you'd get is forcing people to stop saying what they think out loud.

griii2 · 2026-02-22T21:07:52+00:00

If trans women really were women, nobody would need to say "trans women are women".

GGMcThroway · 2026-02-22T21:04:29+00:00

I put gender dysphoria (actual gender dysphoria) in the same camp as Body Identity Integrity disorder or Phantom Limb Syndrome, personally.

I think it would be a lot easier to come to a cultural consensus on the issue if we solved the following conundrums:

We need a method to inspect the brain's hardware that'll say, with 95% accuracy, whether the brain is wired to think it has male or female anatomy.
Philosophically, should we edit the brain to match the body? Or should we edit the body to match the brain?

A good chunk of the arguments against recognizing transpeople as their identities are based on the idea that men are predators and will take any leeway they can in order to harm women. If we could determine if someone is actually trans via brainscan, it would be a lot easier to convince people that you're not just a predator.

If we find a way to alter someone's brain hardware so it matches their body, that would be great in a vacuum; but it would open up a lot more ways for people to get fucked up neurologically (since bad actors would be able to edit people's brains). On the other hand, gender transition surgery is irreversible, and doesn't actually give you a truly functional body of your gender. This issue in particular is a tough nut to crack.

rosephase · 2026-02-22T20:57:50+00:00

It’s fine for you to think and feel that way.

Just don’t be a dick and/or vote to take away other people’s rights and access to public spaces and your fine.

Have whatever feels about trans people as you want. You likely don’t know any personally. So your feelings are pretty irrelevant to the trans population as long as you don’t be a dick to them or vote to take away other people’s rights and access to public spaces.

Ok_Use7 · 2026-02-22T21:20:32+00:00

To you, sure and that's fine. Your beliefs are your beliefs.

I think trans women and trans men are women and men though. People I've known personally have transitioned, so I've seen their lives and have discussed their experiences.

I don't think my opinions and beliefs carry so much authority that I can tell people what they are/aren't or police others beliefs.

Kaleidoscopetide · 2026-02-22T21:26:41+00:00

Okay. I have a friend who used her personal freedom to do what she wants with her body to take estrogen and have surgeries. She has no more testosterone than you, no more of a penis than you, and is paid less than her male colleagues. Shakespeare would call her a woman because Shakespeare didn’t know about chromosomes. Chaucer would call her a woman, because Chaucer didn’t know about chromosomes. What risks does she face that cis women do not face? What danger does she pose to cis women that other cis women don’t pose to each other? Why do YOU think you can change the meaning of the word “woman” from its original meaning?

cb8585b · 2026-02-22T21:31:52+00:00

I don’t necessarily think your post is a hot take but I think people in reality care a lot less about this shit than the online discourse over the years would have you believe.

I’ve not been presented with anything that has convinced me a sex change is currently possible and the rest unfortunately does sound like gender woo woo to me. I can accept the medical consensus that “transitioning” is the most effective “treatment” for people with gender dysphoria.

What that means policy wise I.e. the ID changes and so on is just so convoluted. Sports I think is straightforward. Changing ID well if you don’t allow them to you’re at this time effectively restricting travel so while I understand your rationale, I don’t think that would be justified. Bathrooms if you pass no one will know I’m not proactively watching out for signs a woman might be a man when I’m in a public bathroom. For those that don’t pass the onus I feel is on them on how they want to navigate social situations if they don’t want a negative reaction. (By that I don’t mean outright bigotry but like if someone is side eyeing you in a sex segregated space don’t act dumb about it).

Suspicious_Glove7365 · 2026-02-22T21:04:07+00:00

I feel as if you’re seeing a very narrow image of what a trans woman or man looks like. You’re thinking of the Caitlin Jenner, the ones who haven’t completely masked their born gender to their chosen gender. When you talk about women’s bathrooms, you’re imagining essentially a transvestite in a woman’s space or a “badly disguised” man in a woman’s space. But…there are trans people that you walk past out in public who you would have ZERO idea are trans. You’d literally only know unless they told you. If a gruff hunky transgender man with a big old beard would prefer to use the men’s bathroom rather than alarm the women in the women’s bathroom, I’d very much prefer he use the men’s.

Ego73 · 2026-02-22T20:59:32+00:00

Then I guess I can eat all the TRANS-fats I want, then, because they're not fats

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Texan2116 · 2026-02-22T20:57:51+00:00

I have yet to understand referring to men, or women as Male, or Female as being dehumanizing.

I notice Women routinely refer to other women as Females.

OffTheRedSand · 2026-02-22T21:07:17+00:00

this post is way too long but i'll argue with the few points i can argue with

I do not support the idea that “trans-women are women.” That statement isn’t fair, and it minimizes what women have fought through and for throughout the years.

not all women suffer the same way. and not all of their experiences are universal. trans is a prefix. the same could be argued for black or white women, or poor and rich women. their experiences may overlap but in a lot of areas they aren't the same at all.

but gender dysphoria/gender incongruence is a mental illness.

it somewhat is. and science showed people actually transitioning helped their mental health. modern science showed that. to compare that with lobotomies is unfair because that science is outdated. you could say "oh well later on we will figure out transitioning isn't the solution" maybe. but right now evidence show transitioning is helpful so why not go this route?

it is not possible for a man to “feel like a woman” and vise versa

i mean.. you're free to think that but there are trans men and women out there who are indistinguishable from cis people apart from their private parts so at that point do i really have to say they aren't what they feel like just because they don't have the correct genitalia? that's not fair in my opinion.

AlarmingArm9919 · 2026-02-22T21:12:11+00:00

there currently doesn't exist any credible amalgamation of evidence that transgender identities are themselves mental illnesses - "some third thing", gender wise, has been a commonly recognized deal throughout human history

imo, trans identities should be bundled into a third gender category that may as well just be "trans" writ large

there aren't enough trans people to have all of society be required to differentiate every subgroup within

but they aren't invalid in their experiences either

until or unless "gender affirming care" is definitively shown to be harmful upon a careful and robust set of research, "it's a mental illness, gender affirming care will be seen as analogous to lobotomies, etc." is more magical thinking than anything else around trans people

Except perhaps the simple reality that cis and trans people have distinct biological differences

(though it is actually fascinating how much hormones and surgery can alter the human experience so closely to the opposite sex in the first place)

DMmeClownPics · 2026-02-22T21:28:41+00:00

There is no talk therapy that that make a trans person cis. It does not exist. Gender affirming surgeries are not a “band-aid”. They are often the ONLY thing that works.

I don’t have a ton of social dysphoria. Most of it is related to being sexualized in a heavily gendered way, and that is far less of an issue now than it has been for me in the past since I dress in much more gender neutral style now. I don’t care if people use female pronouns for me or refer to me as a woman. For the purposes of this sub I use it in my flair so that I can answer questions directed towards women, because that’s my sex at birth and my dating experience has been that of a woman. But I consider myself to be more agender. And I have known that in some way or another since I was a kid.

I wanted a hysterectomy ever since I found out I had female reproductive organs and that it was possible to have them removed. I eventually had one done and I felt nothing but absolute relief afterwards. I finally felt like my body was correct. I also hated having breasts once I started to get them, and wanted to have a breast reduction as soon as I found out that was possible. I had that done when I was 19 and the thought of not having had it done is utterly horrifying to me.

Unless you understand what it is like, you should just keep your mouth shut about it. Surgery and changes to my presentation 100% fixed my dysphoria. I don’t even think about it now except when ignorant people flap their lips about things they know nothing about.

p_fulga · 2026-02-22T21:50:10+00:00

My brother is trans. He's been out since he was 13. He told me bits and pieces about it before even then. My favourite part about reading stuff like this is how often people forget about most actual FtM dudes and what monkey's paw they're actually asking for when they demand people use the sex they are to pick things like bathrooms rather than what they come across as.

He looks like a fucking lumberjack type, muscular, hairy, brawny. I mean the minute he goes somewhere that forces him into a women's bathroom he's just going to get in trouble from a bunch of people who think he's a cis dude. Hell you can even find cases all over the American South where trans people will follow the law, and then get punished anyways and beaten by others or brutalized by police.

Shit, it doesn't even need to be trans people. A good chunk of cases of butch or just more masc cis lesbians and straight women have been attacked randomly in bars, stores or other places because others around them didn't think they're "woman enough" and must be trans and predators and attacked them. Don't tell me this stuff is all going to make you feel safe.

I love my brother dearly. He's a good guy. And I'm scared that this kind of nonsense is what people actually think about him, like he's some deranged psychopath or predator or mentally unstable something or other. He's just trying to live happy. He went through years of therapists, psychiatrists, doctors, checks and balances to make sure he was going to be happy with the outcomes of his treatments, and he is. Every time I talk to him he shines, and I'm glad he got to be who he is.

Flightlessbirbz · 2026-02-22T22:10:36+00:00

Well first of all, this doesn’t seem like the right place to post this. But I want to say a few things…

Men didn’t start calling cis women “females” because of trans women. It caught on in misogynist spaces because it was/is intended to be dehumanizing, although I think now some guys have just picked it up without really thinking about it. Seen some women do it too, although it’s less common.
Given that trans people make up approximately 1% of the population, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with assuming the word “woman” refers to a cis woman in most cases, or the word “man” refers to a cis man. I’m not big on terms like “birthing people,” or “menstruators,” but I don’t find them wildly offensive either. Just a bit silly, but also think that we have much bigger fish to fry right now when it comes to issues of women’s rights.
It seems as though conservatives are trying to pit feminists and trans women against each other right now as a distraction from the fact they are trying to take away both women’s and lgbtq rights. I am much more concerned about issues like women dying from pregnancy complications because healthcare providers are afraid to perform necessary abortions, teenage girls being forced to give birth, and the fact that there is a rapist in the White House, than I am about a trans woman being in the women’s bathroom. In fact, the latter isn’t even on my radar.
What proves to me more than anything that trans women are women in a social sense? The way people tend to view them as public property to judge, evaluate, categorize, criticize, dissect… while trans men are comparatively just ignored (which isn’t always good either and speaks to what’s wrong with how society treats men, but I digress). If trans women experience misogyny, which they definitely do, my feminism includes them. Plain and simple.

ProduceDry697 · 2026-02-22T21:08:57+00:00

U talk so much about what “women” have fought for but know nothing about feminism. U dont even know the difference between gender and sex. You are a typical patriarchy worshipper and it shows.

Training_Designer_41 · 2026-02-22T21:00:21+00:00

Why not say Born-women, Trans-women, … no one will argue against that, at the same time people can make the equation or not and it will still be clear what the equation is about

Title	Trans-women are TRANS-women, not women. And vise versa.
Author	throwaway5146156
Upvotes	20
Comments	100
Date	February 22, 2026 8:48 PM UTC (4 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1rbx6nh/transwomen_are_transwomen_not_women_and_vise_versa/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/trans-women-are-trans-women-not-women-and-vise.1574042 https://theredarchive.com/post/1574042

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